Patriotism?

BryanL

Why is it unpatriotic to shop in Northern Ireland, while in the Republic we shop in Tesco's,marks and spencers, Debenhams and read the dailymail,the sun etc without comment or concern re our patriotism?
Is every action that generates tax revenue patriotic?
Bryan

sceptre

You've got two extremes there and the rational answer to both questions is "it isn't".

I couldn't develop anything that I judged snappy enough around "south of the border", "getting screwed" and "lying back and thinking of England" but perhaps someone else can.

dresden8

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
-- Samuel Johnson

Enda should have used that one in his post-budget speech. Ah well, what can you expect a school-teacher to know.

dresden8

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
-- Oscar Wilde

Another one.

Biggins

Cowan says its unpatriotic yet he and his cronies refuses to enact measures that allows millions of euro every month to be exported out of the country by foreign nationals that have their children actually living abroad in their home country,having never set foot here! I call his lack of action in that area alone unpatriotic - when he gets his act together in a number of areas, then he can throw the first stone. Till then he and F.F. can get lost! Roll on the next election.

Fratton Fred

the government coffers may resemble a charity case at the moment, but charity begins at home and your first responsibility is to your family finances tbh.

Darragh29

Until we are rid of these c*nts, I'm not spending, I'm not thinking about spending, in fact I'm doing absolutely sweet FA until we have a new government... That's how I'm gonna protest...

I think a lot of people have decided to do the same, only haven't found the words to express it yet...

Dob74

Its unpatriotic to shop in the north but its ok to hire non-irish over irish! Irish empolyed is down 26k on the year, while non irish employed remained the same. A worrying trend. Nice to see the gov not give a Sh;t.

Latchy

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

Oscar wilde .

todolist

We should go back into the UK and admit this independence experiment was a failure.Enough is enough.

Red Alert

latchyco wrote: »

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel

Oscar wilde .

They tell us they can't control prices and so to shop around, then when we do it's unpatriotic... These guys need to get real.

Latchy

Red Alert wrote: »

They tell us they can't control prices and so to shop around, then when we do it's unpatriotic... These guys need to get real.

That's the bit i never understood either and as i am sure you well know, ''' you can fool some of the people sometime '' .....sure you know the rest .

nesf

BryanL wrote: »

Why is it unpatriotic to shop in Northern Ireland, while in the Republic we shop in Tesco's,marks and spencers, Debenhams and read the dailymail,the sun etc without comment or concern re our patriotism

It isn't. The calls to patriotism that they've been doing have been silly really. So long as the currency situation stays as it is (i.e. a weak Pound versus a strong Euro) a fair number of people will shop in the North. To expect them to do otherwise is just unrealistic.

the_syco

Dob74 wrote: »

Its unpatriotic to shop in the north but its ok to hire non-irish over irish! Irish empolyed is down 26k on the year, while non irish employed remained the same. A worrying trend. Nice to see the gov not give a Sh;t.

Whilst the people on long term dole, since 2002, that think working in MacDonalds is "beneath them"...

As for the government, they'd rather spend €416 on a hairdresser in the States, than having it done here.

If anyone asks am I unpatriotic, I ask do they support an English football team, they'll always reply "yes", and I leave them at that.

My point: those that call you unpatriotic are usually the least unpatriotic people within 5 miles.

Biggins

I'd love to spend money south of the border but as a simple example, I had to buy a double buggy for the wife this very week.

Cheapest around was 350+ euro for what she was looking for.
I got one in England sent over to me in two days. It cost me 160 Euro in total including carriage.
I love my country but as nesf said, it would be unrealistic to not shop elsewhere (especialy when times are getting toughter).

AngryHippie

Is it unpatriotic to order all my books from amazon, because they work out nearly 25% cheaper, and get delivered to my door ? I suppose it is helping to fund An Post......

P. Breathnach

Biggins wrote: »

I had to buy a double buggy for the wife ...

There's a man's point of view!

Latchy

It might be a simplistic example and being done to death before, including this thread .But no good the guy/ womon at the top telling you or I to be patriotic and buy irish in ireland while jetting of someplace to have his hair ,and her nails done in paris or NYC .

Biggins

P. Breathnach wrote: »

There's a man's point of view!

LOL she asked me to get her one specifically.
I do all the pushing and it don't bother me a bit. lol :P

Darragh29

Sure why would you buy anything in this country when you are only contributing to more waste and $410 hair jobs and 10K transatlantic flights and 8K dinners with 1K tips???

nesf

AngryHippie wrote: »

Is it unpatriotic to order all my books from amazon, because they work out nearly 25% cheaper, and get delivered to my door ? I suppose it is helping to fund An Post......

Sir, not only is it unpatriotic, it is foolish! The Book Depository is often cheaper than Amazon and has free delivery to Ireland...

RiverWilde

todolist wrote: »

We should go back into the UK and admit this independence experiment was a failure.Enough is enough.

Going back into the UK wouldn't bother me but I think there are too many people here in the south who'd have a conniption at the idea. I think that our independence from the UK was a mistake. The south doesn't seem to be run with the 'majority' in mind. When policy is being formulated the clique who run things look after themselves and the rest of us can go hang.

Politicians who whinge that we're being 'unpatriotic' for shopping in the north make me laugh. They'd rather we starved and our children suffered so that they can retain their overstuffed positions. When was the last time a southern politician voluntarily resigned for getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar?

Riv

turgon

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the government coffers may resemble a charity case at the moment, but charity begins at home and your first responsibility is to your family finances tbh.

Yeah but if you were getting abused and bullied by your family members, then you exactly wouldn't be eager to help them out.

The government want us to be patriotic and give them tax revenues? So they can spend it on what??? The fàs debacle comes to mind. If they werent wasting so much doe I would go as far as donate money to them. But there just screwing us so much of the time.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

antSionnach

How incredibly arrogant such a suggestion is, coming from Government.

It's their elected job to boost this economy right now, to encourage consumer spending and to put citizens in a position whereby they actually can spend comfortably... not increase the VAT and income tax rates that actually choke this process. The UK & NI administration can do that, why the hell can't Brian Cowen and co?

mumhaabu

Anybody here old enough to remember a certain Mr. Charles J. Haughey saying it was time to tighten our belts while her was busy having £1,000 dinners and dressing in Charvet shirts, while income taxes were at 65%.

Then today you have Jabba Harney getting Hairdo's of FAS, (which would be fine if it was a FAS trainee doing it, but was the FAS Visa that paid it). And they say lightning never strikes twice.

This generation of plebs never knew the wrongdoings that FF did before and are now just seeing Fianna Fails true colour which are not those of Patriots but those of Traitors.

dresden8

Where was the call to patriotism when the landowners, developers, bankers and builders were raping the ordinary working people of the state, the private sector and, yes indeed, even the public sector?

Silent as fuck, that's where it was, and now they're going for the classic divide and conquer of the working classes that our lords and masters have always gone for, Brits or not.

The worst thing is, half the working class have fallen for it, hating unions and public servants.

Grow the fuck up and open your eyes you morons.

the_syco

dresden8 wrote: »

The worst thing is, half the working class have fallen for it, hating unions and public servants.

Grow the fuck up and open your eyes you morons.

The eyes are open, and we see different sections of the public sector spending our money, and asking for more money, whilst people are being let off left, right, and centre in the private sector.

How they moaned at getting less than the private sector when times were good... but now that times are bad, do they still want to be paid "in line" with their private sector counterparts? NAY! They still want more money?

dresden8

the_syco wrote: »

The eyes are open, and we see different sections of the public sector spending our money, and asking for more money, whilst people are being let off left, right, and centre in the private sector.

How they moaned at getting less than the private sector when times were good... but now that times are bad, do they still want to be paid "in line" with their private sector counterparts? NAY! They still want more money?

Well done. You're right, we should fuck more employees out on the street, not bankers, developers, landowners and politicians.

How could I have been so shortsighted?

RichMc70

As Bertie, Charlie and anyone with half a brain would say....'it's every man for himself' in this current climate.

If you can get a better deal somewhere else then I say fair play.

Biffo and his cronies want us in the global market, so therefore why not pre-empty his wishes and getting buying abroad and be a super-eu-patriot. :pac:

Fratton Fred

turgon wrote: »

Yeah but if you were getting abused and bullied by your family members, then you exactly wouldn't be eager to help them out.

The government want us to be patriotic and give them tax revenues? So they can spend it on what??? The fàs debacle comes to mind. If they werent wasting so much doe I would go as far as donate money to them. But there just screwing us so much of the time.

you missed by (not very well made) point.

I am off to ASDA in Eniskillen to get our Christmas shopping, because my family finances (my first priority) can't afford to do it in Dublin.

BryanL

I amazed at people thinking that it's better in the UK? Or that irish independence has some how failed?

The whole reason for shopping in NI is because the UK pound is so weak, Irish banks are in a poor way but UK banks have actually folded. For the first time in the history of the Irish state we are experiencing negative equity, they have it every 15-20 years in the UK.

Judging by the increase in English accents in Ireland i would say they are not of the opinion that Ireland has failed.

Boom and Bust , are normal economic cycles, this is a recession in the whole of the western world not something created by irish politics.
It's amazing how so many Irish people feel some how inferior to everyone else.
Bryan

ChocolateSauce

BryanL wrote: »

Why is it unpatriotic to shop in Northern Ireland, while in the Republic we shop in Tesco's,marks and spencers, Debenhams and read the dailymail,the sun etc without comment or concern re our patriotism?
Is every action that generates tax revenue patriotic?
Bryan

Simple: it isn't.

Fratton Fred

BryanL wrote: »

I amazed at people thinking that it's better in the UK? Or that irish independence has some how failed?

The whole reason for shopping in NI is because the UK pound is so weak, Irish banks are in a poor way but UK banks have actually folded. For the first time in the history of the Irish state we are experiencing negative equity, they have it every 15-20 years in the UK.

Judging by the increase in English accents in Ireland i would say they are not of the opinion that Ireland has failed.

Boom and Bust , are normal economic cycles, this is a recession in the whole of the western world not something created by irish politics.
It's amazing how so many Irish people feel some how inferior to everyone else.
Bryan

The Irish government has had a very very easy time of it lately, now is the time when we will see just how good they are and, to be honest, I have absolutely no confidence that they will get it right. They ****ed up the boom, so who is to say they won't **** up the bust as well.

That said, I have more confidence in Biffo than I had in Bertie.

jmayo

Biggins wrote: »

Cowan says its unpatriotic yet he and his cronies refuses to enact measures that allows millions of euro every month to be exported out of the country by foreign nationals that have their children actually living abroad in their home country,having never set foot here! I call his lack of action in that area alone unpatriotic - when he gets his act together in a number of areas, then he can throw the first stone. Till then he and F.F. can get lost! Roll on the next election.

First thing I would say is having grown up in an area where emigration was rife (and probably will be again), where my father worked in the UK, the fact that those that emigrated sent home money kept a lot of families afloat.
Thus I have no problem with immigrants to this country doing the same.
They are contributing to this country, often a lot more, than some of the whingers who are drawing the dole before they manage to blow it at the bookies.

Back to topic.
The government have a neck telling the ordinary people that should make sacrifices to firstly help feather the nests of some of the retailers who have been screwing us royally over the last year or so and secondly to contribute towards a government and public sector hierarchy that have wasted such collosal quantities of money over the last few years.

These ministers and their lackies can probably siphon off a few quid through their bloated expenses for their christmas costs. They don't need to worry about mundane things such as road tax costs or pensions disappearing.
Afterall joe public pay for them.

Maybe our finance minister should be treated to a dose of reality.
Resorting to the patriotic call is a new low and indeed the last refuge of the scoundrel.
Perhaps he should ask Harney, the board of Fás, and Roddy Molloy to be patriotic and pay back all the money they have wasted either themselves or through their inept actions and oversights.

Then I just might consider not buying my electronics from Germany, my books from UK and my drink & groceries from NI.

gurramok

BryanL wrote: »

I amazed at people thinking that it's better in the UK? Or that irish independence has some how failed?

The whole reason for shopping in NI is because the UK pound is so weak, Irish banks are in a poor way but UK banks have actually folded. For the first time in the history of the Irish state we are experiencing negative equity, they have it every 15-20 years in the UK.

Nah, its not failed. It comes in cycles these cross-border shopping things. Only a few years ago we had northern shoppers flocking down here as sterling was very strong. (and petrol was cheaper here for a long time)

Retailers are still ripping people off down here even if rate was 67p and its both British and Irish based retailers who are at it.

Regarding patriotism, shopping over the border is still Ireland in my view, i'm helping fellow Irish people who live there

the_syco

dresden8 wrote: »

Well done. You're right, we should fuck more employees out on the street, not bankers, developers, landowners and politicians.

How could I have been so shortsighted?

Did I mention we should sack them? No. I said they are looking for money before, and are still looking for money when times are tight for everyone else.

I say no wage increase from those on the starter wage, to the highest earners in the government. Why don't I just say to limit the funds each department gets? Because Ronnie gets a 'golden handshake' worth at least €300,000, whilst 52 FAS people get the boot with no compensation, as FAS needs to "save money". Wish they though about saving money when senior FAS officials were jetting around :rolleyes: If they want so badly to be paid the same as the private sector, I say yes, lets cut the wage down a small bit?

As for the bankers, developers, landowners and politicians, they're all private.

None of the banks have, IIRC, received any money, as none have gone down the drain yet. The developers were given money, to try to keep the construction workers in a job. The landowners will continue to make money from the luas, and roads yet to be built. As for the politicians, who have risen their own pay by voting amongst themselves, they should get a 15% pre-tax salary cut.

LordSutch

jmayo wrote: »

Then I just might consider not buying my electronics from Germany, my books from UK and my drink & groceries from NI.

Whats that :rolleyes:

I'm of to Newry soon 4 a TV + pressies, what, with a weak Pound + VAT at only 15% .......

Cant go wrong really.

Mr.Micro

Boom and Bust , are normal economic cycles, this is a recession in the whole of the western world not something created by irish politics.
It's amazing how so many Irish people feel some how inferior to everyone else.

The powers that be, particularly the Fed in the US, Wall Street, and bankers wordwide maniplulated the cycles and did not allow a recession a few a years ago, instead they inflated the economies with even more credit and we are now all paying the price. I recall some economists a few years ago saying that boom and bust cycles were a thing of the past. So called experts. I find it truly amazing that Irish politicians and others think that people should shop in Ireland with the massively high prices and be patriotic. So people have less money but should blow it here for no value instead of going to NI to get the best deal and avail of a weaker sterling ( its not often that happens). Dream on BIFFO.

My son bought a magazine the other day and the stg price was £3.99 but the newsagent charged 6.8 euro, in reality it should be about 4.80 euro, so whats the 2 euro on top for? There should be law against that type of rip off.

Erin Go Brath

BryanL wrote: »

Why is it unpatriotic to shop in Northern Ireland, while in the Republic we shop in Tesco's,marks and spencers, Debenhams and read the dailymail,the sun etc without comment or concern re our patriotism?
Is every action that generates tax revenue patriotic?
Bryan

Its not unpatriotic to shop in the north, its only unpatriotic to be partitionist. If retail stores here don't drop their prices in the current climate there will be an inevitable exodus north to do shopping particularly around Christmas. If people are harder up of course they'll chase the bargains where they can get them and who can blame them?

RiverWilde

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Its not unpatriotic to shop in the north, its only unpatriotic to be partitionist.

There is nothing unpatriotic in accepting that Northern Ireland is a different country and will remain so until the people in that country change their minds.

Something that I can't see happening any time soon.

Riv

turgon

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Its not unpatriotic to shop in the north, its only unpatriotic to be partitionist.

But, Erin Go Brath, is not going to shop up the north admitting the existence of a separate British state on the island of Ireland, with different laws and cultures? Tut tut, what has happened the hard core ignorant nationalism us realists have come to adore?

oscarBravo

I'd be really, really happy if we didn't turn this thread into a debate on the politics of Northern Ireland.

kthxbye

limklad

Under EU rules: you can shop where ever you like, North or South. He (Brian Cowan) may call you unpatriotic but he shooting himself in the foot. You can shop where you like. If he (Brian Cowan) harasses you, you can complain to the EU Commission where they can refer him the ECJ for breach of the EU Competition rules.

Instead of increasing VAT, he should have reduce it to help shoppers and business and the economy.

As someone else have mentioned earlier which I agree with, you have a patriotic duty to provide for your family first in these economic crisis.

BryanL

turgon wrote: »

But, Erin Go Brath,Tut tut, what has happened the hard core ignorant nationalism us realists have come to adore?

do you mean, John Hume or Ivan Cooper? The most hardcore nationalists this country has produced?

I hardly think either could be prefaced by "Ignorant"

Interestingly, Humes company ,Atlantic harvest did well from trading with the republic.
Bryan

Mr.Micro

I for one cannot comprehend why many retailers and business cannot or will not try and compete on price and incentives for customers, instaed of whinging about lack of patriotism. Why should goods be so much more expensive here than other EU nations allowing for the 21.5% vat here of course? We pay more for home heating oil,gas,coal,food, and most other goods with little or no exception. Businesses have become so lazy and uncompetitive( if they ever were competitive in the first place) thats the real problem. Just yesterday the drinks industry announced a freeze on drinks prices for a year, not any reduction mind. How is that competitive?