Management Speak

dreamer_ire

I'm looking for recomendations for a good book that will help me speak the (ridiculous) language of senior management. Lost out on an interview this week and the feedback was my inability to dress up by examples and as a result they appeared to be at too low a level. I understand the "management speak" but I don't use it. I hope I never will but I recognise that in order to get on in my current organisation I'm gonna need it. Anyone any ideas?

Thanks

PS Mods apologies if this is not the right forum... it was the closest I could find.

Darragh29

dreamer_ire wrote: »

I'm looking for recomendations for a good book that will help me speak the (ridiculous) language of senior management. Lost out on an interview this week and the feedback was my inability to dress up by examples and as a result they appeared to be at too low a level. I understand the "management speak" but I don't use it. I hope I never will but I recognise that in order to get on in my current organisation I'm gonna need it. Anyone any ideas?

Thanks

PS Mods apologies if this is not the right forum... it was the closest I could find.

If this is indicitave of the standard of management where you work, what you need is the Dummies Guide to Jobhunting my friend... Why on earth should your abilities in terms of your qualifications and revelant experience with regard to a management job be summed up by how many management buzz words you can throw out per minute in an interview???

dreamer_ire

Darragh29 wrote: »

If this is indicitave of the standard of management where you work, what you need is the Dummies Guide to Jobhunting my friend... Why on earth should your abilities in terms of your qualifications and revelant experience with regard to a management job be summed up by how many management buzz words you can throw out per minute in an interview???

Totally understand and agree with where you are coming from but for now this is the right organisation for my development etc etc. I do hope to move on but for now it's a better option for me to gain promotion internally which will make it easier to secure a more senior position again externally. Saying that thank you for echoing my sentiments on the uselessness of management speak

elgransenor

I heard John Murray,who does the business news on RTE1,interviewed on radio about 2 weeks ago about a book he has brought out.
It is full of examples of this mangt. speak crap which is to be avoided at all costs.
Whatever is holding you back in your co.,it is not your inability to talk that sort of crap and if you think it is I think you are misunderstanding your bosses.
Wealthiest man in Ireland,Sean Quinn,does not speak mangt. speak,trust me and if you start you will run the risk of sounding like a total knob.
Speaking is about communicating with whoever is listening to you and you do this with clear,concise,plain English in words that your recipient will understand.
Please..........don't go there.

dreamer_ire

elgransenor wrote: »

I heard John Murray,who does the business news on RTE1,interviewed on radio about 2 weeks ago about a book he has brought out.
It is full of examples of this mangt. speak crap which is to be avoided at all costs.
Whatever is holding you back in your co.,it is not your inability to talk that sort of crap and if you think it is I think you are misunderstanding your bosses.
Wealthiest man in Ireland,Sean Quinn,does not speak mangt. speak,trust me and if you start you will run the risk of sounding like a total knob.
Speaking is about communicating with whoever is listening to you and you do this with clear,concise,plain English in words that your recipient will understand.
Please..........don't go there.

Again I completely agree with you, I really do, however the feedback I got was very very clear. Got it from my manager rather than the recruitment section and she calls a spade a spade, which is one of the reasons I respect her! I don't want to use it all the time, just simply to turn it on when it's needed. To give you an example I described "managing poor perfomers", the person who got the job spoke about "pruning low lying branchs". This is the kind of stuff I mean. In an ideal world I would never use this type of terminology but I'm in the public sector and they love it! And if I do find the book I need I solemly promise never ever ever to use it unless absolutely unnecessarily lol.

Darragh29

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Totally understand and agree with where you are coming from but for now this is the right organisation for my development etc etc. I do hope to move on but for now it's a better option for me to gain promotion internally which will make it easier to secure a more senior position again externally. Saying that thank you for echoing my sentiments on the uselessness of management speak

What is holding you back, is not your lack of "management speak" OP. What is holding you back is that your organisation is run by idiots. I can see the logic of your approach here, run with the idiots for a while and then it'll come good. Let me share a lesson with you I learnt at the school of hard knocks. It is not possible to progress your career in an organisation that is riddled with a corrupt selection process, which is what you are dealing with if your intervew process is based on the reproduction of absolutely meaningless phrases...

elgransenor

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Again I completely agree with you, I really do, however the feedback I got was very very clear. Got it from my manager rather than the recruitment section and she calls a spade a spade, which is one of the reasons I respect her! I don't want to use it all the time, just simply to turn it on when it's needed. To give you an example I described "managing poor perfomers", the person who got the job spoke about "pruning low lying branchs". This is the kind of stuff I mean. In an ideal world I would never use this type of terminology but I'm in the public sector and they love it! And if I do find the book I need I solemly promise never ever ever to use it unless absolutely unnecessarily lol.

Well if you really want it-it must be in Easons.

He was interviewed by R Tubridy about 2 weeks ago and the whole thrust of the book is 'garbage you should avoid'.

They had a good old laugh about it as will most normal people.

elgransenor

The name of the book is 'Now thats what I call jargon' and the reviews are as follows-
‘If you’re pompous in business or bureaucracy, look out!’
Sean O’Rourke, RTÉ

‘John Murray, the genius of jargon-busting, has done more to poke fun at all the bogus bull surrounding business than any other journalist in Ireland’
Senator Shane Ross

‘Vote for plain talk and send the mumbo-jumbo merchants packing with a copy of this book. It’s the only language they understand’
Miriam Lord, The Irish Times

You can buy it online but it is probably in Easons.

Now you can shift your paradigm as we go forward.;)

blue4ever

elgransenor wrote: »

The name of the book is 'Now thats what I call jargon' and the reviews are as follows-
‘If you’re pompous in business or bureaucracy, look out!’
Sean O’Rourke, RTÉ

‘John Murray, the genius of jargon-busting, has done more to poke fun at all the bogus bull surrounding business than any other journalist in Ireland’
Senator Shane Ross

‘Vote for plain talk and send the mumbo-jumbo merchants packing with a copy of this book. It’s the only language they understand’
Miriam Lord, The Irish Times

You can buy it online but it is probably in Easons.

Now you can shift your paradigm as we go forward.;)

Dreamer - dream on!

I ran a company for many a year. if one of my managers used the term "managing poor perfomers" - i would understand that completely, if they used the term 'low hanging fruit' - the meeting would have begin to end. i have no interest in euphemisms or double speak.

Your manager actually does not 'shoot from the hip' if she can get wrapped up in the terminology of the organisation and make a career judgement on you because you don’t ‘sound’ right, utter crap!

And by the way always call a spade a shovel!

Keep the head high – you come across just fine to me

DubTony

As a guy who's only ever worked for myself, I find this "management speak" to be completely alien. It's really like a foreign language. My wife worked for 3 companies as a HR manager and 2 of them were full of this crap.

I'd imagine that most of the entreprenurial types on this forum wouldn't know how to answer some of the questions that have been put to my wife by moronic managers using this kind of talk. When she gave me some examples (I can't remember them specifically) I was horrified. I honestly couldn't understand what she was asking me. When she broke it down I was able to give my answer in simple English. She gave me the answer she gave her boss and that too was a lot of BS. But it worked for her. It was a case of fit in or get out.

I understand where the OP is coming from, thankfully not from experience. BTW, I believe the likes of Denis O'Brien, Sean Quinn etc. don't use a lot of this crap. They just talk very loudly and stuff gets done.

dreamer_ire

elgransenor wrote: »

Now you can shift your paradigm as we go forward.;)

lol. Thank you all folks, your help is really appreciated *s

faceman

That's the most bizarre interview feedback I've heard in a while. Sounds like they were fluffing up their feedback to you!

Did the job you were applying for involve PR or external public speaking? If so that might explain it if a certain articulation is required for the role

Other than that you should have been rated in you ability to do the job rather than your ability to talk bull****

Zascar

As much as you say it is complete crap, management b0llocks is an integral & essential part of many companies. My company is a large multinational with a complex nature, with a lot of acronyms and technical jargon for doing simple tasks. If you don't talk the talk, you're not walking the walk.

OP as much as we all may hate it, learn a few important phrases and throw them in where appropriate, but don't overdo it or they'll think you're spoofing

Dabko

If its management phrases you need to work on, then this is the best game in the world to help you improve it - Bull**** bingo!

Played this a couple of times, and i swear to god, it is the best game you'll play:D:D:D

http://www.bull****bingo.net/cards/bull****/

Dabko

If its management phrases you need to work on, then this is the best game in the world to help you improve it - Bull**** bingo!

Played this a couple of times, and i swear to god, it is the best game you'll play:D:D:D

http://www.bull****bingo.net/cards/bull****/

Dabko

sorry people, as the forum wont allow any nasty words that only grown ups use, you will have to cut copy paste the previous links into your browser and manually type in whats missing!

DubTony

HOUSE !!!

ntlbell

just say "going forward" a lot. They'll lap it up.

in the "current climate"

"exit strategy" +"off shoring" +"streamline" will go down well..

and if that doesn't seal the deal

"hit the ground running" + "visa vi" should land the big one.

good luck in your search

blue4ever

I was at a meeting a few weeks ago with a Telco. I was with a guy from another company who I do a bit of work with and know well. The meeting descended into ‘speak’. It was ridiculous. Each of the Telcos guys trying to out do each other on the jargon.

Guy I was with says – to me – “that’s great, all we have to do is sort out the T.L.A’s and we are sorted – ok?. Everyone nodded in general agreement, even the donkeys across the table from us – nobody dared to ask what was said for fear of being shown up in the ‘jargon’ arena.

I smiled broadly and left the meeting. I knew what my companion was at ..

T.L.S.’s – Three Letter Acronyms

I cried laughing in the lift down

dreamer_ire

blue4ever wrote: »

I was at a meeting a few weeks ago with a Telco. I was with a guy from another company who I do a bit of work with and know well. The meeting descended into ‘speak’. It was ridiculous. Each of the Telcos guys trying to out do each other on the jargon.

Guy I was with says – to me – “that’s great, all we have to do is sort out the T.L.A’s and we are sorted – ok?. Everyone nodded in general agreement, even the donkeys across the table from us – nobody dared to ask what was said for fear of being shown up in the ‘jargon’ arena.

I smiled broadly and left the meeting. I knew what my companion was at ..

T.L.S.’s – Three Letter Acronyms

I cried laughing in the lift down

Classic!!

Ellechim

Dreamer - it is well known in social psychology that we recruit those that are the mirror image of ourselves - that's why in lots of organisations it seems like there is an 'in-club' because the person a the top recruits clones. Some organisations actively encourage diversity in hiring - not just in terms of demographic but also in terms of style.

I think to be honest, and I'm reading between the lines here what they may have been trying to say is that the recruiter didn't feel you were senior enough for the role - some of that may well be the language you use. I'd ask whether you were well practiced in interviews and in selling yourself and also, bearing in mind the point that people hire in their own language, knowing that if you can tailor your style to the person recruiting it will give you the edge.......

I'm not suggesting that you start spouting some of this dire management speak (my own personal favourite is 'castles built on sand') however sometimes we all do have to play the game if we want to progress.....when you get the job you can then do it your own way!!!!!

dreamer_ire

Thanks Ellechim, I work in HR so am pretty well practiced when it comes to interviewing. So far I have "refused" to use management speak and have even had senior people comment on the fact that my policies are easily understood and well written. That said I'm realising that if I want to progress I am, as you say, going to have to play the game and this means learning the lingo! If you have any suggestions on how best to learn it and utilise it I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks again for your comments.

delllat

Heres a few good ones to get you started

* We're on a 3 way street here
* We really need to push the envelope on this one
* It's a finely balanced situation, weighted heavily toward the customer
* Think big
* We need to touch base offline
* What can you bring to the table?
* Keep me in the loop
* We need to get on the same page
* Lets take a blue-sky approach
* 360-degree feedback
* Lets park that offline for a moment
* By close of play
* Think outside the box
* Low hanging fruit


after using one of those phrases to someone its important to look them in the eye and say "ok,now were in sync,lets get cracking"

enjoy yourself is the main thing,dont be intimidated by all the bull****t


most of these phrases have came straight out of popular psych and motivation style books so if your really serious about learning you could read these kind of books

niceirishfella

More........

Row up all yer ducks

Touch base

KPI's

Ecomony of Scale

Helicopter view


fecking hate of all of these ****e terms..never use the personally but worked with **** who spouted this crap all day and night.
Glad to be out of that.

CallieO

Oh please....

will you guys just keep up???


Cutting edge = bleeding edge
ICT = web 2
wiki - website
authentic - cool
futurist - highly paid yank
evangelist - on commission
guru - top 5 on TED this week
geek - cellar dwellar


Shall I continue?:D

No please don't guess what my day job is..........

niceirishfella

I even heard a gob****e recently using the black rapper term "off the hook" in a meeting...........

BigEejit

blue4ever wrote: »

I was at a meeting a few weeks ago with a Telco. I was with a guy from another company who I do a bit of work with and know well. The meeting descended into ‘speak’. It was ridiculous. Each of the Telcos guys trying to out do each other on the jargon.

Guy I was with says – to me – “that’s great, all we have to do is sort out the T.L.A’s and we are sorted – ok?. Everyone nodded in general agreement, even the donkeys across the table from us – nobody dared to ask what was said for fear of being shown up in the ‘jargon’ arena.

I smiled broadly and left the meeting. I knew what my companion was at ..

T.L.S.’s – Three Letter Acronyms

I cried laughing in the lift down

Um... TLA's also = Top Level Assembly (a single part number that contains all the parts that make up the product.)

And telco are technical bods always use three letter acronyms, the industries are full of them, not to mention the odd 4 letter one, you'd know that if you RTFM.

niceirishfella

Telco bods as far as i'm concerned CGAFT.

r3nu4l

Zascar wrote: »

As much as you say it is complete crap, management b0llocks is an integral & essential part of many companies. My company is a large multinational with a complex nature, with a lot of acronyms and technical jargon for doing simple tasks. If you don't talk the talk, you're not walking the walk.

OP as much as we all may hate it, learn a few important phrases and throw them in where appropriate, but don't overdo it or they'll think you're spoofing

+1

Are you sure you got their meaning correctly?

I deal with pharmaceutical clients every day. We manage their medical communications. If I'm interviewing a person and ask him:

"How would you show a client that you were the right person to write their manuscript for publication?"

I would expect to hear:

"I'd begin with a telecon asking for a full brief. I'd ask them about their product positioning, current and future strategy campaigns, core medical and marketing messages and whether their SWOT analysis showed anything worth noting in terms of this project"

NOT

"I'd ask them what they wanted written and if there was information they had that I could use."

These are basically the same statement but one is more specific, and gives teh client the confidence that you have all the angles covered and know what you are about. The former statement portrays confidence in yourself, the client product and shows that you are willing to engage the client and integrate their key messages. The latter is weak and will hold you back.

I really doubt they want you to use phrases like "singing from the same hymn sheet" and "Shake the tree and see what falls out".

dreamer_ire

Thanks r3... that's exactly what I need to develop. By any chance could you point me towards a book that would be useful for me?

Thanks

CallieO

This is not serious is it???

CallieO

from one of my rss feeds:

'Basically, we really think that canonical long tail latent semantic indexing is what's going to put our site over the top...blogosphere'

r3nu4l

Ellechim wrote: »

Dreamer - it is well known in social psychology that we recruit those that are the mirror image of ourselves...

Indeed. This is true. In fact, while I'm not a massive fan of 'life coaches' and 'motivational speakers' one thing they say that really rings home is that if you want to be successful in an organisation you need to mimic those that are already successful. Copy their language, their tone of voice when dealing with people (unless it's condescending or aggressive, avoid this!), their body language. Quite often our success is based not on what we are capable of or how well we do our work every day but how we are perceived by others who have control over our success (in this case, the boss or hirer).

If you are looking for a senior role you need to be seen as a 'go-getter', someone who is confident, capable, organised, efficient and able to manage themselves and inspire confidence in those around them. That means, plenty of eye contact, smiles, firm (not crushing) handshakes and making people feel like you are really happy to see them and can help them solve any challenges (not problems ) they face.

dreamer_ire wrote: »

Thanks r3... that's exactly what I need to develop. By any chance could you point me towards a book that would be useful for me?

Thanks

I haven't read many books on this subject. If you work in HR then you need to brush up on some of the terminology used in HR. An academic book on HR management might be useful (if a little boring to read).

Dale Carnegies "How to win friends and influence people" is actually a good book and worth a read for some good pointers on getting what you want and how our behaviour influences other people.

However, on a much more practical level I have extensively used the book "Great Answers to Tough Interview Questions". That is an excellent book and helps you focus during preparation for an interview.

XJR

dreamer_ire wrote: »

. . . I understand the "management speak" but I don't use it. I hope I never will but I recognise that in order to get on in my current organisation I'm gonna need it. . .

If this is what it takes to get on in your organisation you really should move to one that appreciates and rewards talent and ability rather than bvllsh1t.

Ellechim

Dreamer, just getting back here now.

I think we all have to find our own comfortable place in terms of what we're prepared to compromise on - and to be honest with you using a few bits of jargon isn't the worst thing in the world......I would be far more concerned about how ethical the company was and how it treated it's employees and whether I was learning/developing in the role (and being paid fairly)......

The point that r3nu4l makes is true - many years ago (to my shame but I was very broke and it was the only job going) I sold timeshare and one of the things we were told to do was to mimic (in the nicest possible way) the people we were selling to by using their expressions, language, intonation, etc.....good salespeople apparently do this without even thinking.....this helps us like people and then poor suckers buy from people they like.....

NiceIrishfella, if the kind of expressions you mention wind you up then you really are better off out of the corporate world.

I should also add that a) getting excellent results in what you do and b) meeting your commitments - helps your credibility to no end. When it comes to promotion the more senior manager wants to be assured that you are going to deliver, especially if it's a move up for you and he's taking a bit of a risk by promoting you. The best way to do that is to give him a set of things you say you're going to deliver on, and when (and make sure it's stuff he really wants) and then deliver it, better/earlier/more cheaply. I have seen people be promoted who did just this - and to be honest it wasn't what they were delivering but how they managed the PR around what they did and how they managed expectations................

All the literature on leadership state that the things that exceptional leaders do are:
a) build and lead great teams
b) build and maintain great relationships with colleagues, peers, more senior people, customers, board of management, etc
c) deliver what they say they will
d) grow with the job

In terms of books I'd recommend you to read to really understand human relationships would be Cialdini 'Influencing'. Most good bookshops have it in the pscyhology section........

The other thing to do for yourself is to focus on the big stuff, not on the small stuff - find a way to delegate that to someone else - because until you do you won't be able to move on from it.........

dreamer_ire

Thanks Ellechim. I know I can deliver and they know it because I've been doing it for 2 years but I did not deliver at the interview when it counted. All because I couldn't/didn't talk the talk. While I don't buy into the language and wouldn't use it day-to-day I do realise I need to be able to turn it on when necessary e.g. interview/high profile mtgs etc.

I really appreciate your feedback and will be heading to Waterstones tomorrow!

Thanks again

Blackjack

Dreamer - you don't have to fill the interview with all of these Management speak.

To be honest, I really do despise these items, but to be honest, they do sometimes help to get a point across in a meeting because sometimes it seems it impresses people if you use them.
That is a sad fact, but it's unfortunately true.

It really does depend on the level of your audience. I've always found that the more senior the audience the less of this you actually hear, and when you do hear it it's in a more relevant context. The lower down, the more of this tripe you tend to hear and it's thrown into conversation completely out of context.

Overuse of this sort of speak will mean people will just see you as a bull****ter to be honest.

dreamer_ire

Blackjack wrote: »

Dreamer - you don't have to fill the interview with all of these Management speak.

To be honest, I really do despise these items, but to be honest, they do sometimes help to get a point across in a meeting because sometimes it seems it impresses people if you use them.
That is a sad fact, but it's unfortunately true.

It really does depend on the level of your audience. I've always found that the more senior the audience the less of this you actually hear, and when you do hear it it's in a more relevant context. The lower down, the more of this tripe you tend to hear and it's thrown into conversation completely out of context.

Overuse of this sort of speak will mean people will just see you as a bull****ter to be honest.

Totally agree with you, which is why I understand I have to firstly learn it and secondly be very selective when and where I use it. This speak really sisn't me, I'm a kinda "what you see is what you get person", I'd rather be known as being a grafter who makes things happen than the person who "sounds" good. I will buy the books that have been recommended but I promise faithfully I will only use the vocab when necessary and not simply to make me sound "right".

Again folks thank you all for your comments

Ellechim

Dreamer, I should also add, if you do deliver it will get you there in the long run in most organisations - I firmly believe in that. Every org has it's share of eejits that latch onto certain things and sometimes it's hard to get past them, so you prepare prepare prepare for that happening again to make sure that that simple thing doesn't scupper you.

Also, I have done tons of interviewing but still find myself being caught short when I actually go to interview - there is a way of presenting what you've done in a favourable or even more favourable light and that needs practise so I would advise you if you can to do a mock interview before you go for something again with someone who will give you honest feedback.....

Being seen as management level isn't just about management speak - even if you know you can do the job convincing someone in an interview is an art in itself...........

Trojan

I don't like to bump threads unnecessarily, but this incredibull**** had to be shared:

Pepsi Logo rebrand http://bit.ly/4yMV8Z (6MB PDF) advertising/marketing doc
(source http://bit.ly/4hpx )

fmcc

Janey i was waiting for a punchline at the end but it just didn't appear.

delllat

ladies and gentlemen

this is a total cluster****