4.5 acres of land-how much rent?

okmqaz42

Hi, I have 4 acres of land that I bought with my house. I have a neighbour grazing sheep/cows on it for about the last year. He wants to settle up with me. How much should I ask for. I am not from a farming background so am a bit clueless here.
Any suggestions?

massey woman

Where about what county whats the land like

okmqaz42

Its in Louth. Good flat land well drained and grassy. I have been told by locals its a good field.

Furze

See http://www.farmersjournal.ie/2008/0202/farmbusiness/business/property.shtml for an idea.
Factor in if + field is handy for him also - what would you have done if he hadn't taken.
My est. would be €100 an acre.

Appears to be new forum on Farmers Journal that may be useful
See http://www.farmersjournal.ie/myJournal/forum/

reilig

okmqaz42 wrote: »

Hi, I have 4 acres of land that I bought with my house. I have a neighbour grazing sheep/cows on it for about the last year. He wants to settle up with me. How much should I ask for. I am not from a farming background so am a bit clueless here.
Any suggestions?

I rent 6 acres of good land from a neighbour for €500 per year. I take a cut of silage from it and graze cows on it. I think its an ok deal. I help the neighbour out in ways like cutting her hedges and keeping an eye on her homeplace (she is married about 50 miles away). I maintain the fences and do not overeat her land. She is happy that someone she trusts has her land and I am happy to pay her cause it suits me. You have to factor this in - does he/she look after your land or treat it like a borrowed horse? Does it suit them to have it or are they kinda doing you a favour just to keep it eaten.

marzic

if you wanted to be accurate you could enquire with an auctioneer about the market value for letting grazing, its up to you then if you want to charge that rate

okmqaz42

Hi, thanks for all the replys. He keeps the land in good order and has installed an electric fence around most of it. He seems to move a couple of fences around it internally to make sure one part is not over eaten. The hedges are well looked after(joint effort). It suits me to have it grazed as it means I dont need to get the grass cut or run the risk of it growing wild.

I was thinking of asking for €100 which would make it €20 an acre! I am really just interested in the money changing hands to make it a transaction so that there is no confussion as to who owns the land.

marzic

his names not pat kenny, isit?

reilig

okmqaz42 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for all the replys. He keeps the land in good order and has installed an electric fence around most of it. He seems to move a couple of fences around it internally to make sure one part is not over eaten. The hedges are well looked after(joint effort). It suits me to have it grazed as it means I dont need to get the grass cut or run the risk of it growing wild.

I was thinking of asking for €100 which would make it €20 an acre! I am really just interested in the money changing hands to make it a transaction so that there is no confussion as to who owns the land.

I'd probably ask him for more than €100, because then he would think that he's getting it for cheap and might expect it to be cheap always. Best thing to do is ask him what land per acre is going around him, get his figure and then knock a little bit off it, then both of ye will be happy - he'll be getting land cheaper than he can get it locally and you will be getting more than €100 for it.

The_Conductor

I'd be inclined to agree- ask what the going rate is- and chop it a little. Around the EUR250-300 mark would be good value for him- and welcome for you too, no doubt.

okmqaz42

Sound advice-Thanks

irish_bob

okmqaz42 wrote: »

Sound advice-Thanks

its strange that you didnt hammer out a price with the farmer before you rented it to him
100 euro an acre is a very poor price for land in county louth , regardless of economic conditions , land for rent is always in demand in this country as so little of it is sold , add to that , whether or not renting land in ireland is economically viable is secondary when it comes to farmers making a descision to rent or not to rent

the acception to the rule is tillage land , a year ago , tillage land was making at least 170 euro an acre and often over 200 , 2008 has been a disaster for tillage , many have got burned and thier will be a big drop in tillage land being taken next year , that said , you have such a small parcel to rent , you wont be renting it to a tillage farmer anyway , you will be renting it to a cattle farmer and beef farmers have had a pretty good year , 150 euro would be a more accurate price and i wouldnt take less than 130

okmqaz42

irish_bob wrote: »

its strange that you didnt hammer out a price with the farmer before you rented it to him

It never occured to me it might be worth so much. I don't have much knowledge when it comes to farming and was always just glad to have to have the grass kept down. This is still the case I would just hate for someone to think I am the village idiot.

irish_bob

okmqaz42 wrote: »

It never occured to me it might be worth so much. I don't have much knowledge when it comes to farming and was always just glad to have to have the grass kept down. This is still the case I would just hate for someone to think I am the village idiot.

farmers are as greedy as any other social group , dont give it away or he will think your a soft touch , seeing that you didnt make a deal in advance of him using it , i would say , ask for 100 euro cash per acre for this year and perhaps get something in writing for next year , he will most likely not want to discuss next year untill about febuary or march though , btw, did you give him maps of the land , he would need maps so as to claim subsidys of it , without maps , land is worth at least 30% less

louth is a small county with the highest percentange of top quality land of any county in ireland , there are roads going through a lot of the county and no county sells less land so whats rented will command a good price

reilig

irish_bob wrote: »

150 euro would be a more accurate price and i wouldnt take less than 130

Land that has maps with is and is eligable for area based payments or reps payments on a long term lease is making this kind of money. But if he is just eating the grass off it for you a couple of times of year and ensuring that the land and fences are maintained properly and in short he is actually benefitting you, then you cannot expect someone to pay full price if they are not getting the full benefits.

okmqaz42

I take to point about mutual benefit, and I have to say from my point of view it has always been in favour. I have little time or inclination in trying to cut 5 acres of grass. I think if I ever needed the money or wanted to formalise the arrangement I would give the whole thing to a land agent and get them to let it, at least this way I won’t fall out with neighbours.

Irish_Bob you seem to have a good understanding of land values in louth, if you wanted to buy 4 or 5 acres in Louth what would you expect to pay. I have never had much of an interest in land values as the land was part of the property I bought and I never actually thought of the land having any major intrinsic value.

irish_bob

okmqaz42 wrote: »

I take to point about mutual benefit, and I have to say from my point of view it has always been in favour. I have little time or inclination in trying to cut 5 acres of grass. I think if I ever needed the money or wanted to formalise the arrangement I would give the whole thing to a land agent and get them to let it, at least this way I won’t fall out with neighbours.

Irish_Bob you seem to have a good understanding of land values in louth, if you wanted to buy 4 or 5 acres in Louth what would you expect to pay. I have never had much of an interest in land values as the land was part of the property I bought and I never actually thought of the land having any major intrinsic value.

farmland in louth is the most expensive in the country outside dublin , that said it has closed to halved in value since the peak in 2006

the cost of renting land hasnt changed much though , its been the same more or less for years now

as regards the comment from rellig about how the farmer cant be expected to pay top dollar if hes not getting the full benefit of it , if the owner is willing to let him take a cut of silage of it or graze it from april 1st to november 1st , then what more can he do , what persons idea of what is full benefit could be very different to another persons view

massey woman

Read all the comments with interest
To me this farmer appears to be a decent responsible operator
Most of all he is a neighbour
When you are away working the chances are he will throw an eye on your house and no doubt with good old country cunning would spot any thing strange happening.The country has changed hugely and there are gangs of b*stards roaming the highways and byways preying on unsuspecting decent people.Breaking into homes and stealing personal belongings.To me this neighbour is your eyes and ears in your absence and should you have children later even visitors children he will look out for them
It reminds me of one of my own children playing football many years ago
close to the river.The ball went into the water and the young lad went in after it.An old neighbour (70+)saw the episode from afar and without hesitation rang our house.There was no one in and he rang another neighbour to drive him over.As it happened the young lad got the ball and got out safely himself but what if he didnt.What price would you pay for that.When the neighbour would meet us thereafter he would get great enjoyment reminiscing over the event.Our young lad visited him every Christmas and when he died this year drove from Cabinteely to his funeral 135miles.
Farming is a waste of time with little to be made and I would draw up a contract with your neighbour renewable annually for €1 and think of the bigger picture

reilig

irish_bob wrote: »

as regards the comment from rellig about how the farmer cant be expected to pay top dollar if hes not getting the full benefit of it , if the owner is willing to let him take a cut of silage of it or graze it from april 1st to november 1st , then what more can he do , what persons idea of what is full benefit could be very different to another persons view

I thought I made it clear in my above post, but I will clarify it again - full benefit to a farmer is when he can cut or graze the field as well as draw an area based payment and a reps payment on it. If a farmer can draw a grant of €30+ on it per acre per year, then you can expect him to pay a little extra per acre for it. If not, then he's a generous farmer that does pay extra for it in these tough times.

In short though, I have to agree with MASSEY WOMAN. That's the outlook that I would have also. You cannot put a price per acre on a good neighbour!!!!

irish_bob

massey woman wrote: »

Read all the comments with interest
To me this farmer appears to be a decent responsible operator
Most of all he is a neighbour
When you are away working the chances are he will throw an eye on your house and no doubt with good old country cunning would spot any thing strange happening.The country has changed hugely and there are gangs of b*stards roaming the highways and byways preying on unsuspecting decent people.Breaking into homes and stealing personal belongings.To me this neighbour is your eyes and ears in your absence and should you have children later even visitors children he will look out for them
It reminds me of one of my own children playing football many years ago
close to the river.The ball went into the water and the young lad went in after it.An old neighbour (70+)saw the episode from afar and without hesitation rang our house.There was no one in and he rang another neighbour to drive him over.As it happened the young lad got the ball and got out safely himself but what if he didnt.What price would you pay for that.When the neighbour would meet us thereafter he would get great enjoyment reminiscing over the event.Our young lad visited him every Christmas and when he died this year drove from Cabinteely to his funeral 135miles.
Farming is a waste of time with little to be made and I would draw up a contract with your neighbour renewable annually for €1 and think of the bigger picture

too much waffle in the above post to comment on all of it but the last line is of particuar interest , are you suggesting he rent the land to the farmer for 1euro

Fud Duddy

The price per acre to lease for 2008 was 200 euro per acre for decent land, I know what you mean about the guy being a neighbour and all, but thinking about it as if the guy is doing you a favour keeping the grass down is a bit green I think. Farming is his business, and your 5 acres is an asset. Personally I think if you gave it to him for 100 per acre it would be very generous of you. Throw the ball back in his court and ask him what he thinks is a fair exchange, then you'll see if he is a 'poor poor' farmer or just a farmer. It's a good idea to have a lease agreement, especially if the arrangment is to run on for a few years , I would suggest 5 years or less. These are off the shelf documents at any solicitors office. It prevents problems down the line. Land rental is usually pre-paid in full.
Good luck with it.

p.s. You could always let it to mother nature, the birds and bees love it au natural.

irish_bob

Fud Duddy wrote: »

The price per acre to lease for 2008 was 200 euro per acre for decent land, I know what you mean about the guy being a neighbour and all, but thinking about it as if the guy is doing you a favour keeping the grass down is a bit green I think. Farming is his business, and your 5 acres is an asset. Personally I think if you gave it to him for 100 per acre it would be very generous of you. Throw the ball back in his court and ask him what he thinks is a fair exchange, then you'll see if he is a 'poor poor' farmer or just a farmer. It's a good idea to have a lease agreement, especially if the arrangment is to run on for a few years , I would suggest 5 years or less. These are off the shelf documents at any solicitors office. It prevents problems down the line. Land rental is usually pre-paid in full.
Good luck with it.

p.s. You could always let it to mother nature, the birds and bees love it au natural.

an excellent post although i dont agree that land was 200 euro to rent across the board , if one was rent a large scope of top quality land for sowing barley or wheat , sure , it was making from 180 to 220 last year ( wont happen this year i assure you ) , most land for grazing or taking silage off was being got for at the most 150 an acre right back to 120 , that is assuming the person renting had access to maps so as to draw down premia , land without maps would be certainly no more than 100 euro an acre

Diotoir

Lads just wanted to know how much you would charge a metal detecting club to rent a good size field for the year we don't mind if your working it we don't leave a mess and we will half anything we find as well offer our service too if you have lost anything on you land apart from years we cant do anything about that let me know what you think ....thanking you in advance

Rovi

[MOD]
Metal detecting is a very contentious subject in Ireland, with hobbyists and archaeologists arguing the details and meaning of the law covering the area, and we have no intention in getting into that particular argument here in Farming & Forestry.

I'd strongly advise the poster here and anyone thinking of facilitating him to have a read of this thread over in the Archaeology forum:
The Metal Detecting Debate


Zombie thread closed.
[/MOD]