Respect the Haka

guapos

Graham henry has come out and said that he wants England to repect the Haka on saturday, NZ get to do a war dance before a match and opposition shouldnt be allowed relpy, sad really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7750284.stm

anonymous_joe

I'd assume they'll do what Wales do. Hopefully anyway.

lottodrink

guapos wrote: »

Graham henry has come out and said that he wants England to repect the Haka on saturday, NZ get to do a war dance before a match and opposition shouldnt be allowed relpy, sad really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7750284.stm

Ya have to respect it tho. Its a traditional Maori dance, its not exactly a war dance its used to welcome guests and done for fun. Women do this as well.

Anyway NZ are gonna hammer England!!

anonymous_joe

lottodrink wrote: »

Ya have to respect it tho. Its a traditional Maori dance, its not exactly a war dance its used to welcome guests and done for fun. Women do this as well.

Anyway NZ are gonna hammer England!!

In the context of professional rugby it's a wardance.

To be honest, the arsehole in me's half tempted to suggest England showcases it's own proud warrior tradition. Perhaps a procession of the weaponry they used to conquer New Zealand... That'd make for an even tempered match. ^^


In all seriousness, the Haka is a challenge, and teams have very little they can do in response to it. I hope England do something, and I really hope they do what Wales do. Forcing New Zealand to back down after each Haka would be an embarrassment enough for them.

Robbo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In all seriousness, the Haka is a challenge, and teams have very little they can do in response to it. I hope England do something, and I really hope they do what Wales do.

Retaliate in kind with a Morris Dance?

Pat Mustard

I don't like it. It's some dude screaming that he's gonna cut your throat! And you are supposed to stand there and take that!!?

Maybe I'm a spoilsport, but it gives them an unfair advantage. NZ have also insisted on doing the haka after the opposing team's national anthem, in the past. It really is all about them getting pumped up, and the other team looking on, being at best impressed and at worst a bit p*ssed off and/or jealous.

Why can't they do it in the dressing room, if it's about 'culture' and not about getting an edge on the other team?

I admit to being biased.

netvista

can some tell me what it was that wales did about it as i missed the match

lottodrink

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In the context of professional rugby it's a wardance.

To be honest, the arsehole in me's half tempted to suggest England showcases it's own proud warrior tradition. Perhaps a procession of the weaponry they used to conquer New Zealand... That'd make for an even tempered match. ^^


In all seriousness, the Haka is a challenge, and teams have very little they can do in response to it. I hope England do something, and I really hope they do what Wales do. Forcing New Zealand to back down after each Haka would be an embarrassment enough for them.

Those All Blacks have no fear at all, couldnt see them backing down to anyone off the England team anyway.

Sure theres nothing England can do unless they do the Haka as well but that will piss NZ off n probably end up with a few English injuries lol...

Whatever happens I dont mind cause I'm a nutral:)

anonymous_joe

Robbo wrote: »

Retaliate in kind with a Morris Dance?

It's always an option. It's frightening and traditional. Highly offensive to other cultures as well. :P

lottodrink wrote: »

Those All Blacks have no fear at all, couldnt see them backing down to anyone off the England team anyway.

Sure theres nothing England can do unless they do the Haka as well but that will piss NZ off n probably end up with a few English injuries lol...

Whatever happens I dont mind cause I'm a nutral:)

In defence of the English team (never thought I'd say that :P) they might be off form, but I seriously doubt they'll be scared either. They're professional rugby players after all. And one of them's from New Zealand. ^^

lottodrink

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It's always an option. It's frightening and traditional. Highly offensive to other cultures as well. :P


In defence of the English team (never thought I'd say that :P) they might be off form, but I seriously doubt they'll be scared either. They're professional rugby players after all. And one of them's from New Zealand. ^^

Well I know id ****e meself if they done the haka infront of me, pro rugby player or not lol...

Ah well, we'll just have to wait and see what England do, I think they will just stand there looking big though(not much else they can do)... They should just fall to the ground laughing that might shut NZ up:p

Goodluck2me

anonymous_joe wrote: »

To be honest, the arsehole in me's half tempted to suggest England showcases it's own proud warrior tradition.

"None of that Jackie Chan bollix...I want to see plenty of windmills...and if you've got a set of keys MAKE 'EM COUNT"..

sandleman1979

netvista wrote: »

can some tell me what it was that wales did about it as i missed the match

Netvista, this is what happened...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JfCnIfu2BF0

anonymous_joe

lottodrink wrote: »

Well I know id ****e meself if they done the haka infront of me, pro rugby player or not lol...

Ah well, we'll just have to wait and see what England do, I think they will just stand there looking big though(not much else they can do)... They should just fall to the ground laughing that might shut NZ up:p

Think I'd shít myself as well, but then, if I was at the peak of physical fitness and a pro rugby player, I'd back myself to stand up to it. Given that I'm not, cowardice not only acceptable but should be encouraged. :P

goodluck2me wrote: »

"None of that Jackie Chan bollix...I want to see plenty of windmills...and if you've got a set of keys MAKE 'EM COUNT"..

It's something. :P

puntosporting

I hope england do something highly offensive!
At least that way The all black will play extra nasty and give them a right doing over!

Podge_irl

I love the Haka and have no inclination to see it go, but NZ are ridiculously precious about the whole thing.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

I love the Haka and have no inclination to see it go, but NZ are ridiculously precious about the whole thing.

Don't dish it out if you can't take it kind of thing...?

Fair fúcks to the anonymous Welshman who decided on that response. It wouldn't surprise me to see that become the usual response to it.

Sangre

guapos wrote: »

Graham henry has come out and said that he wants England to repect the Haka on saturday, NZ get to do a war dance before a match and opposition shouldnt be allowed relpy, sad really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7750284.stm

mind games.

anonymous_joe

http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/nbc/england/news/1336001.htm

Nonu: 'Wales were asking for a fight'
Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:26

In the zone: Ma\'a Nonu

New Zealand centre Ma'a Nonu has warned England not to copy Wales's dramatic response to the haka when the teams meet at Twickenham this Saturday.

What to do when the All Blacks are performing their traditional pre-match challenge has often proved a problem for opposition sides.

Last weekend Wales stared down New Zealand after they finished the haka and, with neither side appearing to move, it needed the intervention of All Blacks captain Richie McCaw to end the stand-off as referee Jonathan Kaplan desperately tried to get the game underway.

The unimpressed Tri-Nations champions eventually ran out comfortable 29-9 winners at the Millennium Stadium, a victory that left New Zealand on the brink of a grand slam this weekend after victories earlier this month over both Scotland and Ireland.

Nonu said he suspected Wales coach Warren Gatland, himself a New Zealander, has been behind the haka response which he added would have caused "hurt" to All Black fans watching the match on television at home.

"What the Welsh did wound us up," the 26-year-old, who will again wear the No 12 shirt this weekend, told reporters at the squad's hotel.

"They were probably told by (Wales coach) Warren Gatland to stand there and wait until we leave," he said.

"But it was really hard. The Haka is a war dance.

"If you're going to stand there like that then in the past people would have charged, but it's a rugby match and you can't do that.

"People back home will have been hurt by what they decided to do. Standing in the way like they did is asking for a fight.

"My blood pressure was pretty high but then I regained my composure. I was a bit upset about it.

"If I was facing the Haka I'd respect it. The Haka is the Haka, after that it's game time.If England want to do that they can - but they'll probably get the same response."

AFP

Little bit aggressive from Ma'a? What would you do if you were facing the Haka?

cmcsoft

I love the HAKA, I think it's one of the great spectacles in modern day sport. I would love to see teams approach it and stand out individually with their opposing number not arms linked. The face them off like the Welsh did. That will get the crowd going. Respect everyone, fear noone!!

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

http://www.rugby365.com/all_news/nbc/england/news/1336001.htm

Oh they hurt the poor no. 12's feelings.I thought it was a great way to stand up to it.

anonymous_joe

You'd think Nonu wanted the world to support England...

Relevant

Nonu wrote: »

"People back home will have been hurt by what they decided to do. Standing in the way like they did is asking for a fight..

So standing there is looking for a fight but a war dance is not looking for a fight?

RugbyFanatic

NZ are so arrogant Nonu's remarks in particular have such a cocky overtone to them basically stating ''don't disrespect the haka or else we will embarass you''


I really, really hope that England beat them and don't let NZ come away with a grand slam and the feeling that all NH teams are an absolute joke.

AlphaMale 3OO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtKMEVRyySs&feature=related

Kind of off topic but have a look at this. Typical Americans.

subfreq

Mind games indeed.

Both McCaw and Mealamu said they thought it was a great show of respect.

premierstone

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I really, really hope that England beat them and don't let NZ come away with a grand slam and the feeling that all NH teams are an absolute joke.

You mean in touch with reality

Chucky the tree

How come I have never once senn a post on here about the the Tongans and Fijians got an unfair advantage because they got to do a war dance before a match?

John_C

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How come I have never once senn a post on here about the the Tongans and Fijians got an unfair advantage because they got to do a war dance before a match?

Probably because we rarely play either team.

Chucky the tree

John_C wrote: »

Probably because we rarely play either team.

Wales were knocked out of the WC(the biggest rugby tournament there is) by Fiji, where were the threads of out cry then?

John_C

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Wales were knocked out of the WC(the biggest rugby tournament there is) by Fiji, where were the threads of out cry then?

I don't know if there were any, I don't read any Welsh rugby sites. I'm sure you could check.

Chucky the tree

John_C wrote: »

I don't know if there were any, I don't read any Welsh rugby sites. I'm sure you could check.

Well considering this thread is about Graham henry saying England should respect the Haka I thought our interest in other nations might have sparked one thread about it, or even one post.

John_C

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well considering this thread is about Graham henry saying England should respect the Haka I thought our interest in other nations might have sparked one thread about it, or even one post.

That's fair enough but I've never seen the other Pacific Islands get as precious about their dance as New Zealand does. They tend to do their thing and then get on with the game.

Chucky the tree

John_C wrote: »

That's fair enough but I've never seen the other Pacific Islands get as precious about their dance as New Zealand does. They tend to do their thing and then get on with the game.

I've never seen a team re-act to any of the other Pacific islands dance or try and tell them too do it before the anthems etc etc.


Personnally I love the haka, and I love the responses. Like it or not the haka is great for building the atmosphere, and the responses help hugely. Look at the atmosphere when the Munster/NZ lads did it, look the atmosphere it helped create in the Walesh match. Thats the reason the NZers dont want people to re-act to it, specially when they are away from home.

Look at this clip, you can tell straight away from the crowd noise whats happening. Imagine a Tonga vs NZ semi-final in the WC at this happening, it would be excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eGCsEQ15L4

dlofnep

Haka is the only interesting thing in rugby. I turn it off right after the Haka.

RuggieBear

tbh, i'd get rid off it and all the rest of the prematch BS such as anthems and the meet and greet. I go to watch the rugby not see some politician/dance/song/etc

Sparky14

The haka is a gud laugh I don't think it should be stopped, but the opposition are entitled to respond whatever way they please. This bull**** about standing there applauding the haka, its clearly an attempt to psyche the opposition out and the opposition should respond accordingly.

Tho has anyone reacted to the Haka and actually gone on to win the game?

Danger_Dave

Sparky14 wrote: »

Tho has anyone reacted to the Haka and actually gone on to win the game?

France in the 2003 world cup

88show

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In the context of professional rugby it's a wardance.

In all seriousness, the Haka is a challenge, and teams have very little they can do in response to it. I hope England do something, and I really hope they do what Wales do. Forcing New Zealand to back down after each Haka would be an embarrassment enough for them.

you seem to have no background in this.
it is a honor to have another tribe or in this case a team from another country (cause thats all this is, tribe against tribe in an arena for us to get our kicks) to show they are up for what this represents.

now embarassment is people who know nothing but saying crap that NZ is embarrassed when we put it down on the ground, our tradition, respect and way we play our winning way, Maori, Islander, Pakeha.

Embarrassment is ignorance.

anonymous_joe

88show wrote: »

you seem to have no background in this.
it is a honor to have another tribe or in this case a team from another country (cause thats all this is, tribe against tribe in an arena for us to get our kicks) to show they are up for what this represents.

now embarassment is people who know nothing but saying crap that NZ is embarrassed when we put in down on the ground, our tradition, respect and way we play our winning way, Maori, Islander, Pakeha.

Embarrassment is ignorance.

Can I direct you to Nonu's comments...?

Clearly the All Blacks don't enjoy their 'challenge' being stood up to.

88show

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Can I direct you to Nonu's comments...?

Clearly the All Blacks don't enjoy their 'challenge' being stood up to.

as you say and all b4,
they are Nonu's comments, NOT mine.
Alot of people will share his comments and his tone,
its not what I share.
some don't, but what I was taught is what I wrote.
Now if you want to know the mana behind the haka and our rugby i'd be glad to give you my nearly 40 yrs worth of great ab captains and players who will do and say what R McCaw said and not Ma'a
this is a tradition also performed by the 1st ab captain.
I don't see anything but smoke screens and someone stirring the pot when Henry comes out with them comments.
coaches have been winding the press up ever since Sid Going's day and they always will cause look at this...

anonymous_joe

I've no problems with Maori culture or the Haka, but in terms of the rugby, I must confess I'm not a fan of it. It's become overly aggressive, nasty, and unpleasant. The concept that the entire world should kow-tow to New Zealand and 'show respect' is offensive.

corny

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've no problems with Maori culture or the Haka, but in terms of the rugby, I must confess I'm not a fan of it. It's become overly aggressive, nasty, and unpleasant. The concept that the entire world should kow-tow to New Zealand and 'show respect' is offensive.

Well said.

88show

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've no problems with Maori culture or the Haka, but in terms of the rugby, I must confess I'm not a fan of it. It's become overly aggressive, nasty, and unpleasant.

The concept that the entire world should kow-tow to New Zealand and 'show respect' is offensive

.

thats 2 things, and they're both good.
if you're not a fan of it, we can't change that, and don't need to.
nasty, thats a view shared by most like yr self and many who know a little bout this.
the whole concept of the world etc..., I can't agree to cause again it's the view of at the moment the minority in the team and definitely from the lesser informed.
What I think we as a Nation of Rugby would like respect for is to do what we do. this is how we play rugby. It's part of the blackness of our jersey. It goes hand in hand with the respect that it 1st was intended for, to give honour back to the main culture of our land at the time it was 1st performed.

To have it stopped would cause an implosion on the greatest winning team since the game was played in nz, hence rugby would never ever be the same.
Not being bias but 1/2 the people in the world only started watching rugby on of 2 things, 1: te haka and 2: 1 J Lomu locomotive running round, over, through anything he chose.

compared, it would be like the Welsh not singing, no paddies singing bout the fields of Athenry, the English voices. (sorry oz but waltzing matilda doesn't count)
these are things part of the game here, granted not as aggressive but none the less, part of you. To say yr not allowed your songs, (and I've heard a few ira songs when I have been at matches which is offensive) the welsh not singing???

What I reiterate is they want respect, yes.
for what we have been doing since the late 1800's, on the field showing that we honour our land and our native culture.
Not " you stand there on the field while I roar at you!" That to me is a lack of understanding of what it was ment to be for in the 1st place

toomevara

88show wrote: »

To have it stopped would cause an implosion on the greatest winning team since the game was played in nz, hence rugby would never ever be the same.

Oh dear, are you seriously suggesting that stopping the haka would suddenly result in AB rugby reverting to a state comparable to that of say, Canada!...The rugby equivalent of Delilah lopping off Samson's flowing locks....

Come on now! With all due respect that's nonsensical. My view on the Haka is well known (over-blown nonsense which was completely irrelevant to the kiwis until the arrival of Buck Shelford and which hands an unfair psychological advantage to a team which is in no need of it prior to every match).

But like folk-dancing or marmite its something you seem to inexplicably love or hate. But I'd say that if the Kiwis greatness is based on buck-lepping about for a minute before a game maybe we should all start doing it!! Hey, hang on, why not dispense with the rugby altogether and just have a "Strictly come Haka" type deal...

Serenity Now!

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Wales were knocked out of the WC(the biggest rugby tournament there is) by Fiji, where were the threads of out cry then?

Because Fiji, Tonga and Samoa are expected to be beaten hence not a word about the Cibi, Siva Tau or Sipi Tau.
Noo Zulland however..................are using it to call upon some divine power to make them unstoppable.
It has nothing to do with power in the contact area, speed with and to the ball and deft skills from 1 to 15.
If you get beate, then one must quickly jump around until an excuse is found for yet another defeat using every reason BUT the real ones..

Its a Haka. Opposition can use it to psyche themselves up or they can ignore it. There's a thread about Ireland's backline problems in the forum. If people are looking for reasons why the All Blacks won, then start there on the subject of lack of dummy runners and shoulder-support and continue by creating a thread entitled 'What is missing at the ruck?'.

twinytwo

dlofnep wrote: »

Haka is the only interesting thing in rugby. I turn it off right after the Haka.

then why post on the rugby board.. i mean if its not interesting what are you doing here?

AlphaMale 3OO

To be honest I'm sick of all this haka talk before every match. This seems to be a recent phenomenon. Up until as recently as 4/5 years ago there was rarely pre-match talk of the haka from either side. It was just something that was a formality, promptly performed and we all got on with the match. The only exceptions I can think of were Willy Anderson in 89 and Brian Moore in 97. I am a fan but I think the Haka has become an ego boosting exercise for the All-Blacks and for the want of a better description, to "look and feel cool" before each game (eg whiteboy Ali Williams doing all this tongue work). There is always a humdrum before every All-Blacks game bar those in the Tri-Nations and I can only assume that with SA and Aus seeing it so often, it no longer provides any mystique. This leaves the Northern Hemisphere teams and Argentina and so we must look at ourselves and our own contribution into fueling the fire of the pre-match Haka. If people stop speculating as to how they are going to respond to something they have faced many times over there would be no trouble. The haka would be performed and the game would commence. Instead all this speculation is getting into the heads of the All-Blacks opponents and now we have Munster performing Hakas, Wales acting like idiots and I can only wait and see what pleasures England have in store. The one exception I have is France's response in the World Cup last year. It seemed genuine and unchoreographed and was motivated by their own desire to intimdate rather than to massage their own egos.

Here's a solution to the problem: Let everyone from Canada to Italy formulate their own Haka and then we'll all be even.

EDIT: I'm not saying NH teams are soley to blame. NZ have become far more animated in their performance of the Haka in recent times and this too aggravates opponents. Have a look at a Haka from the 80's. It's more *sings* Heads and Shoulders, Knees and Toes than a Wardance.

88show

toomevara wrote: »

Oh dear, are you seriously suggesting that stopping the haka would suddenly result in AB rugby reverting to a state comparable to that of say, Canada!...The rugby equivalent of Delilah lopping off Samson's flowing locks....

no
you would have to be an idiot to think that.
Our school boy rugby would take them.
But if you took it away from our game it would splinter the country in pieces, you can not and will not slpit the 2. game and haka.
you would understand I guess if this was your country, your heritage I guess.

Dempsey

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Because Fiji, Tonga and Samoa are expected to be beaten hence not a word about the Cibi, Siva Tau or Sipi Tau.
Noo Zulland however..................are using it to call upon some divine power to make them unstoppable.
It has nothing to do with power in the contact area, speed with and to the ball and deft skills from 1 to 15.
If you get beate, then one must quickly jump around until an excuse is found for yet another defeat using every reason BUT the real ones..

Its a Haka. Opposition can use it to psyche themselves up or they can ignore it. There's a thread about Ireland's backline problems in the forum. If people are looking for reasons why the All Blacks won, then start there on the subject of lack of dummy runners and shoulder-support and continue by creating a thread entitled 'What is missing at the ruck?'.

I agree with what you are saying but for Henry to come out and say that a team isnt entitled to react in a way that might upset the AB is wrong and he should be blasted for comments like that and the player.

If the Haka is to be allowed, a response from the opposition is to be allowed.

For Henry to complain about teams responding to the Haka, is complete and utter childish behaviour from NZ and the world will resent them for it. It nearly makes me want England to beat them, thats how much resentment I have for the comments.

Shows that Wales had the right idea but they still lost. Someone needs to walk the walk when they talk the talk

anonymous_joe

88show wrote: »

thats 2 things, and they're both good.
if you're not a fan of it, we can't change that, and don't need to.
nasty, thats a view shared by most like yr self and many who know a little bout this.
the whole concept of the world etc..., I can't agree to cause again it's the view of at the moment the minority in the team and definitely from the lesser informed.
What I think we as a Nation of Rugby would like respect for is to do what we do. this is how we play rugby. It's part of the blackness of our jersey. It goes hand in hand with the respect that it 1st was intended for, to give honour back to the main culture of our land at the time it was 1st performed.

To have it stopped would cause an implosion on the greatest winning team since the game was played in nz, hence rugby would never ever be the same.
Not being bias but 1/2 the people in the world only started watching rugby on of 2 things, 1: te haka and 2: 1 J Lomu locomotive running round, over, through anything he chose.

compared, it would be like the Welsh not singing, no paddies singing bout the fields of Athenry, the English voices. (sorry oz but waltzing matilda doesn't count)
these are things part of the game here, granted not as aggressive but none the less, part of you. To say yr not allowed your songs, (and I've heard a few ira songs when I have been at matches which is offensive) the welsh not singing???

What I reiterate is they want respect, yes.
for what we have been doing since the late 1800's, on the field showing that we honour our land and our native culture.
Not " you stand there on the field while I roar at you!" That to me is a lack of understanding of what it was ment to be for in the 1st place

The Haka was an embarrassment up until the 80s. Let's not forget that. Those Hakas were awful, cringeworthy in the extreme.

The modern Haka may mean lovely wonderful things, but the way it's performed is aggressive. The throat slitting gesture (which is part of another Haka isn't it?) was probably the nadir of my respect for New Zealand's rugby.

In how many other sports do you see fans shut up for a kick? Rugby is built on respect. Everyone knows New Zealand are the best in the world between World Cups. NObody minds the Haka, when really they should have. But it's modern version has become a gloriously unpleasant, nasty piece of pantomine. It's not about celebrating Maori culture, it's about psyching up the All Blacks.

Nonu's comments were indicative of a relatively common belief in New Zealand rugby that the world should respect them.

When I was a kid, watching Ireland lose was par for the course, but we still did it. Jonah Lomu was a hero to us all because we were 8, had just started playing rugby and the guy was awe-inspiring. Compared to modern New Zealand teams, there's so much ill-will generated because of the poaching of players from other (poorer) Unions, the endemic skirting around the very edges of the law, and usually getting away with going beyond them, and the general air of nastiness. The O'Driscoll issue earned huge attention in this part of the world because no-one had ever previously seen an international captain deliberately spear tackled at the start of a game. From a state of near worship, the All Blacks have slipped down hugely in my own mind. That's sad. The Haka has gone from being exciting to another sad symbol of what the game has become for New Zealand's All Blacks.

Don't really have anything else to say about it, so that;s me done on the issue. ^^