Cobbles

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

So... apparently they are doing some sort of work in Front Square to remove cobbles to make it easier for wheelchair users to traverse the campus...

There was an article in the latest Record about this that seemed quite vague, it mentioned that the original plan was to remove cobbles completely but it was decided that this would remove from the aesthetic of the campus (thank god!). But I'm not really sure what they're going to do instead?

Does anyone know anything more about this? I really don't want to see any of our cobbles gone, was walking through Front Square this evening and was thinking how beautiful they looked in the dark, reflecting the light of the lamps...

Podge_irl

Presumably they'll just be putting a flat path down through them. Shame, while I understand the need, they look exceptionally nice as is.

Crash

iirc the plan was to form a triangular pattern of path across from the place, which looked quite asthetically pleasing tbh. That was a fair while ago though, so not sure if it was fully decided upon. It was never on the books to fully remove the cobbles either really.

IMO this is incredibly long overdue. In 3rd year I was on a crutch for a few days, and at one stage, on a wet windy evening, it took me five minutes to limp across front square. Watching people in wheelchairs try and get around is even more embarassing to see in this day and age.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Do they not understand the meaning of '**** off'

those cobbles are too nice to spoil in my opinion.

Epic Tissue

The cobbles look really good but they're a bit annoying when it's wet and even when it's not wet. They could do a path through them and still have them look nice.

I'm glad they decided not to remove them completely

Crash

iirc this is what the design was at one stage. Not sure if this was the final decided upon one, but I thought it was the best of the lot and unobtrusive.



edit: I think it also had some small offshoots for entering buildings etc.

Do they not understand the meaning of '**** off'

those cobbles are too nice to spoil in my opinion.

So nice as for it to be necessary to restrict people who study in college? didn't realise we were in the form of physical exclusion :P

Podge_irl

Do the cobbles not continue down either side of the Old Library? Would a path not be needed there also?

Crash

Presumably so - i'm going off memory from over a year ago tbh.

AlanSparrowhawk

Why don't you just give all the people in wheelchairs caterpillar tracks?

Agent Smith

I recall reading somwhere that they wont be removing the cobblestones, but they will "smoothen" them down, making it easier for anyone on crutches/wheelchair/highheals (one word or two?) to cross

Crash

Again, i'm only going on memory here but the plan that I *think* was actually settled on by the working group called for granite slabs. This all could have changed by this stage, knowing the wonderful decision making process in trinity. :P

Mark200

Yeah I read it somewhere recently, possibly in The Record. I got the impression that the plan was just to smoothen down parts to form paths across it...sounds like a good idea to me.

Boston

The article I read maybe a month ago in the times/independent said they would be creating diagonal paths with smoothed cobble stone. Thus they will be replacing the cobble stone in places with something that looks similar but which is smoother and less discontinuous. The cobbles in front square are in pretty bad shape tbh.

Ron DMC

They should've gone with my idea of laying down see-through perspex paths on top of the cobbles so as not to disrupt the aesthetics.

FX Meister

Why not just get a track like system that wheelers can adapt their chairs to?

FX Meister

Swap their chairs upon arrival at Trinity with one of these

Boston

FX Meister wrote: »

Swap their chairs upon arrival at Trinity with one of these

Erm, that's not a wheelchair one can self propel. You need another person pushing it.

cianclarke

=>

TBH.

AlanSparrowhawk

Ronny Mitchell wrote: »

They should've gone with my idea of laying down see-through perspex paths on top of the cobbles so as not to disrupt the aesthetics.

sounds like that could be incredibly (dangerously) slippy

petrochemical

At last they are getting it right. Those hard working bureaucrats! They really are worth every penny of their huge salaries, and I'm surprised they were able to come up with this, in between twiddling their thumbs at those oh so vital committee meetings. They should have put a LUAS station in Front Square. It would GREATLY decrease traffic and provide much needed jobs for the community. They also should create at least 500 new administrative jobs to deal with this new pathway. Unsackable, of course with full pension. Then they should go on a fact finding mission to Australia, all expenses paid, to "examine" a similar path at the University of Sydney.

steveone

petrochemical wrote: »

At last they are getting it right. Those hard working bureaucrats! They really are worth every penny of their huge salaries, and I'm surprised they were able to come up with this, in between twiddling their thumbs at those oh so vital committee meetings. They should have put a LUAS station in Front Square. It would GREATLY decrease traffic and provide much needed jobs for the community. They also should create at least 500 new administrative jobs to deal with this new pathway. Unsackable, of course with full pension. Then they should go on a fact finding mission to Australia, all expenses paid, to "examine" a similar path at the University of Sydney.

Naturally enough in the interest of keeping ego- sorry thats eco warriors happy...the new path will have to be made from recycled tea bags...

I imagine it is difficult to get about the campus in a wheelchair or even using a crutch . perhaps a granite or slate walkway would look better than smoothening the cobbles. the baldy patches in front square look crap next to the newer replacement cobbles from smithfield.

Tricity Bendix

I love the way the human mind works. People using a thread about a path to give out about whatever group of people happens to be annoying them today. Class. Senseless, but class.


Topic: I hope this happens ASAP. Watching people in wheelchairs making their way across Front Square is heart-wrenching.

Peleus

they can't build a big path going straight down the middle. Image how bad pictures of trinity would look it there was this bid path just going right through the square. the path should be around the square. It would mean a longer tripo for people in highheals, crutches or wheelchairs but it wouldnt be an eyesore.

raah!

Ooooeer, that's terrible. I love those cobbles I do, maybe a notice instructing wheelchairsers on how to traverse the cobbles properly would solve this. They could fit their wheels between the cobbles.

Guess it has to be done...

P.S I think peleus' idea is good. It's more work for those people, but that could be really disastrous to the front square if they mess the cobbles up to badly. The greatest happiness principle and all that.

Crash

The attitudes in this thread really sadden me. Cobbles over the basic ability for people to get around college? Sad.

donegalgirl28

Was walking in the Front Square yesterday in flat pumps, god I was screaming inside with every step. If they put a flatter surface in hooray for my feet.

Cantab.

Why do we need special pathways on front square when there are no lectures there anyway?

Re-instate the students to their rightful place in the more historic parts of College and I'd be all for re-cobbling, but only if it's in the shape of the Star of David (I think that would work).



The administrators (yes, the ones who came up with this hair-brained idea) have to move first though.

Cantab.

I wonder could we get the eminent Prof Weaire to come up with some fancy shape for a front square path? A shape with significance and meaning for this fine institution.

Jonathan

OP i thought you were banned??

Brian

They should put in slot car tracks around front square for people in wheelchairs.

cianclarke wrote: »

=>

TBH.

What? I understand what NOS is, and I understand that 911s are cars that I don't like, but I don't see what To Be Honest has to do with it.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Going Forward wrote: »

The attitudes in this thread really sadden me. Cobbles over the basic ability for people to get around college? Sad.

Yes, but we have to balance the historical aspect of the college with other more pragmatic concerns. It seems to me that the obvious solution would be to put a path around the perimeter of Front Square rather than trisecting it with this network of pathways, in my eyes, a large part of the beauty of the Front Square cobbles is their continuity over the expanse of Front Square, something which would be marred by putting a big path slap bang down the middle.

Of course a perimeter path wouldn't be as easy to traverse as what Neil (Goi ng Forward) describes in the picture, but I think this should be the unfortunate compromise we have to make in preserving the historical character of our university.

You make it seem as if we're banning wheelchair users from the campus completely, we're not removing their ability to get around, it's simply recognising that we sacrifice some ease of use for the greater good of having an untarnished campus. Would you be in favour of modifying all the cathedrals in Europe so that we put in great dirty elevators so that everyone can make it to the top of their spires?

Boston

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

Yes, but we have to balance the historical aspect of the college with other more pragmatic concerns. It seems to me that the obvious solution would be to put a path around the perimeter of Front Square rather than trisecting it with this network of pathways, in my eyes, a large part of the beauty of the Front Square cobbles is their continuity over the expanse of Front Square, something which would be marred by putting a big path slap bang down the middle.

That would involve removing more cobbles from front square. If the approach is to minimise the impact, then crash's plan seems the better.

Of course a perimeter path wouldn't be as easy to traverse as what Neil (Goi ng Forward) describes in the picture, but I think this should be the unfortunate compromise we have to make in preserving the historical character of our university.

You make it seem as if we're banning wheelchair users from the campus completely, we're not removing their ability to get around, it's simply recognising that we sacrifice some ease of use for the greater good of having an untarnished campus. Would you be in favour of modifying all the cathedrals in Europe so that we put in great dirty elevators so that everyone can make it to the top of their spires?

You talk about sacrifice, but you are not the one making the sacrifice. I'll ignore your elevator comment.

Crash

Zwei Ver Zwei, as stated by Fishie elsewhere in another thread, those cobbles aren't an ancient historical aspect of the college, they're from the 40's - 50's. If we insist on retaining all aspects of college to their complete degree from such an era, the arts block will be around til the end of time. (70's, i know, but still).

Placing a path such as were mooted actually takes incredibly little away from front square, and if done correctly would be a lovely blend and in fact maybe even result in an overhaul of some of the areas of cobbles that are in absolute ****e (corner between the old library and parliment square, in front of rubrics etc.)

Cantab. wrote:

I wonder could we get the eminent Prof Weaire to come up with some fancy shape for a front square path? A shape with significance and meaning for this fine institution.

Didn't they try that with the pathway between the lloyd and the SNIAMS? You know the part with the granite slabs - if i remember clearly it is (or was, i think its gone now) supposed to be one of the only non-repeating geometric sequences or somesuch. I also think they messed it up laying it two or three times and eventually just gave up

Podge_irl

Going Forward wrote: »

Didn't they try that with the pathway between the lloyd and the SNIAMS? You know the part with the granite slabs - if i remember clearly it is (or was, i think its gone now) supposed to be one of the only non-repeating geometric sequences or somesuch. I also think they messed it up laying it two or three times and eventually just gave up

It was supposed to be Penrose Tiling but they ****ed it up when laying it. I think its now correct though.

Moorsy

Kaylie Putrid Schoolboy wrote: »

Do they not understand the meaning of '**** off'

those cobbles are too nice to spoil in my opinion.

This comment is simply disgraceful. The poster should be banned or apologise. How sad and insular must a person be to tell somebody they should '**** off' from Trinity because they are disabled in some way. What drivel.

All area's of college should be accessible to disabled students. A person in a wheelchair can't visit the Welfare Office (surly an irony?), can't go to the Pav, and many other places we take for granted in Trinity.

The smoothing of cobbles will be a welcome move, irregardless of aesthetics.

The Walsho

Kaylie Putrid Schoolboy wrote: »

Do they not understand the meaning of '**** off'

those cobbles are too nice to spoil in my opinion.

Perhaps I misunderstood this post, but if it's referring to people in wheelchairs/on crutches then it's a pretty disgusting comment.

I'm not one for taking the moral highground but some of the comments in here have really shocked me. People putting the aesthetics of the front square before accessibility for those in wheelchairs?
Which do you think would look worse, a path going through front square or students in wheelchairs or on crutches struggling to make their way along?

Long overdue, and the Pav needs something done with it too, with those steps.
Fúck the cobbles, put the students first.

Pet

Moorsy wrote: »

The smoothing of cobbles will be a welcome move, irregardless of aesthetics.

"IRREGARDLESS" IS NOT A WORD.




Ahem.

Peleus

Going Forward wrote: »

Zwei Ver Zwei, as stated by Fishie elsewhere in another thread, those cobbles aren't an ancient historical aspect of the college, they're from the 40's - 50's.

Just because they're not old doesnt mean we can get destroy them with a giant path.

Peleus

Moorsy wrote: »

This comment is simply disgraceful. The poster should be banned or apologise. How sad and insular must a person be to tell somebody they should '**** off' from Trinity because they are disabled in some way. What drivel.

he's not talking about to disabled people.

Crash

Well then who exactly is he talking to? I guessed he wasnt being that much of a bollocks, but as it stands he just sounds like an idiot. Because "they" is ...em...no one.

Also Peleus, its not a giant path. its a path about the width of a wheelchair. Have you any other argument other than "OMFG it wont look as nice!!1!"? cus i'm actually reasonably sure it'll look quite nice (still hoping they use granite slabs :P

petrochemical

Irregardless, I would like to propose some more modifications

1. Multi storey car park on college park. At present there is no multi storey car park. This is GROSSLY discriminatory against drivers. Racist, infact.
2. New Bar in each library- this will allow all the talkers to talk in peace without being hassled by annoying studiers.
3. Bulldoze all buildings in front square. Build new apartments and a "leisure" centre to complement the LUAS station. This will provide an elegant modern living experience for todays modern student. Property only ever goes up, so it's a win-win for all concerned.
4. Disband the science and engineering faculties. They're not really needed. They will be replaced with a "Modern living" faculty- far more relevant today.
Entry will be by lottery system, so as not to discriminate against the intellectually challenged of the community. Anyone who speaks Manx gets an extra go.
5. Massive increase in student fees. 30k a year. This money can go towards the new LUAS station in front square.
6. Each class must have a quota of each minority in the world. Failure to do this is a blatant violation of their human rights.

Crash

Yes because all of these are the exact same as a disabled person attempted to get from the GMB to student records. Which is currently essentially inaccessible.

Boston

Moorsy wrote: »

All area's of college should be accessible to disabled students. A person in a wheelchair can't visit the Welfare Office (surly an irony?), can't go to the Pav, and many other places we take for granted in Trinity.

That's the type of moronic motion the SU could really get behind. All areas of the college you say? Have you the first clue as to what that would cost? Certain building would have to be completely destroyed to make "all areas of the college" accessible.

I agree about house 6 though, the su should be based in a building which isn't accessible to all students. The pav is a completely different story, its a pub and not a supposely vital part of a students education.

Stark

petrochemical wrote:

1. Multi storey car park on college park. At present there is no multi storey car park. This is GROSSLY discriminatory against drivers. Racist, infact.

Yeah because it's as easy to get out of a wheelchair and walk as it is to get out of a car and walk :rolleyes:

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

The Walsho wrote: »

Which do you think would look worse, a path going through front square or students in wheelchairs or on crutches struggling to make their way along?

Absolutely not trying to be a prick, but I'd take the latter over the former any day...But I really do think a perimeter path is an adequate compromise, indeed probably optimal, unless it can be shown that smoother cobbles allow easy traversal by mobility impaired people.

Boston wrote:

That would involve removing more cobbles from front square. If the approach is to minimise the impact, then crash's plan seems the better.

(Referring to a perimeter path)

Are you making the claim that the aesthetic impact of removing cobbles is based entirely around how MANY cobbles we remove and not where those cobbles are? Of course a perimeter based path would remove MORE cobbles...but it wouldn't mar the unbroken expanse over Front Square.

Crash points out that the cobbles are a relatively new feature of Trinity...
Out of interest, what was there before?
Personally I think cobbles are far and away the most beautiful thing on the ground at Trinity, my heart always sinks a little, when walking to my first lecture of the day, or coming back from lunch, I leave the cobbles behind to the filthy tarmacadam beside the Museum Building.

Stark

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

Absolutely not trying to be a prick, but ...

Fail.

Podge_irl

Seeing as some people are all for maintaining asthetics and tradition, I feel it should be pointed out that every Cambridge college I've been in has a central Granite path through their main square. They really can look quite nice and while I appreciate the asthetics of the cobbles there are some things that have to come before asthetics (and the cobbles haven't even been there that long!).

Peleus

Going Forward wrote: »

Yes because all of these are the exact same as a disabled person attempted to get from the GMB to student records. Which is currently essentially inaccessible.

Are you saying a person in a wheelchair has never gone accross front square? It is accessible but just takes alot longer. A perimeter path would be faster than going accross the cobbles and will have less of an impact on the look of the square. A path through the middle, if done right, could look very nice. But a perimeter path would be just as good, allow easy access for disables people,bikes, crutches etc..., and also won't be noticable at first glance.
It's unlikely that the path through the middle will be done well so why not just take the safe and less destructive option of the perimeter path?

The cobbles were put there for a reason. They look good and fit in with the overall design of front square. The fact that they are relatively new is no excuse for driving a path through them.

Going Forward wrote: »

Have you any other argument other than "OMFG it wont look as nice!!1!"?

Yes, that is basically my only argument. It wont look as nice. We can acheive the same thing with a path around the square. ie: 1 meter of flat concrete/granite where the walls of the buildings in front square meet the ground. This way cobbles will look the exact same except the area of the cobbles will be reduced slightly.

Peleus

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

So... apparently they are doing some sort of work in Front Square to remove cobbles to make it easier for wheelchair users to traverse the campus...

Kaylie Putrid Schoolboy wrote: »

Do they not understand the meaning of '**** off'

those cobbles are too nice to spoil in my opinion.

He wasn't referring to disabled people.

Boston

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

(Referring to a perimeter path)

Are you making the claim that the aesthetic impact of removing cobbles is based entirely around how MANY cobbles we remove and not where those cobbles are? Of course a perimeter based path would remove MORE cobbles...but it wouldn't mar the unbroken expanse over Front Square.

The aesthetics is only one part of it. Aesthetically speaking the best approach would be to replace all the cobble stones. They are in a terrible state of disrepair by all accounts and have to be among the worst maintained I've seen in the city. Reality is you have to also minimise the actual impact meaning only removing the material absolutely necessary

Cantab.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Seeing as some people are all for maintaining asthetics and tradition, I feel it should be pointed out that every Cambridge college I've been in has a central Granite path through their main square. They really can look quite nice and while I appreciate the asthetics of the cobbles there are some things that have to come before asthetics (and the cobbles haven't even been there that long!).

What colleges would they be? Churchill, Girton, New Hall, Darwin, Robinson?

Hell would freeze over before the Fellows of Trinity, Kings, St John's et. al. would modify their quads according to the ignorant whims of a bunch of administrators/disability Nazis.