Incredible Amorth Interview

Gareth37

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=2879

If you thought that Satan doesn't exist have a read:

Most relevant questions - very very true:

How does the Devil go about seducing men and women?

AMORTH: His strategy is monotonous. I have told him so and he admits it … He convinces people that there is no hell, that there is no sin, just one more experience to live. Lust, success and power are the three great passions on which the Devil insists.

How many cases of demonic possession have you come across?

AMORTH: After the first hundred, I stopped counting them.

kelly1

Thanks Gareth. I read his book, An Exorcist Tell His Story and thought it was very good, a real eye opener.

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227569058&sr=1-1

I also read Interview with an Exorcist by Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea. It's very informative too. It's in a Q&A format. He gives a very interesting answer to the question "Why did God put the demons to the test?"

God bless,
Noel.

Gareth37

kelly1 wrote: »

Thanks Gareth. I read his book, An Exorcist Tell His Story and thought it was very good, a real eye opener.

http://www.amazon.com/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227569058&sr=1-1

I also read Interview with an Exorcist by Fr. Jose Antonio Fortea. It's very informative too. It's in a Q&A format. He gives a very interesting answer to the question "Why did God put the demons to the test?"

God bless,
Noel.

I heard this was a very good book. A friend told me that it removes any doubt about the existance of God and Satan but I already have no doubt in the existance of both.

I went into a holy shop today but they didn't have the book. Do you know if Easons has the book?

I think that its very very important that young people are warned about Satan and how he manifests himself. Im afraid that I have to be critical of the church here on this. People seem to be dictating to the church what the church should preach. This is so wrong.

marco_polo

It seems the only one who keeps going on about Satan is you? Are you sure you are not doing his bidding as his PR officer?

You know what they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

kelly1

I just read the article. I read it a good while back but it's well worth reading again. The Church badly needs our prayers especially the Rosary and the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel.

Gareth37 wrote: »

I went into a holy shop today but they didn't have the book. Do you know if Easons has the book?

Dunno, but I got my copy in Veritas on Abbey St. in Dublin.

Gareth37 wrote: »

I think that its very very important that young people are warned about Satan and how he manifests himself. Im afraid that I have to be critical of the church here on this. People seem to be dictating to the church what the church should preach. This is so wrong.

The Cardinals a Bishops certainly seem to have let their guard down!

JimiTime

kelly1 wrote: »

The Church badly needs our prayers especially the Rosary and the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel.

Why? Are those prayers more potent? A self worded prayer to God through Christ would not be as potent?


Also, I find the part of the interview below interesting:

Amorth:I’m dealing with it now and have been for two years. It is the case of that girl who was blessed – though it was not a proper exorcism – by the Pope last October in the Vatican and which made headlines. She is under attack around-the-clock. Her torments are indescribable. Doctors and psychiatrists are baffled by this case. The girl herself is completely lucid and very intelligent. It is a very difficult case.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall such a hulabaloo when demons were cast out in scripture. Why, if the church has apostolic authority can it not have such authority over unclean spirits?

Gareth37

JimiTime wrote: »

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall such a hulabaloo when demons were cast out in scripture. Why, if the church has apostolic authority can it not have such authority over unclean spirits?

Out of all the churches the Catholic Church seems to lead the way in exorcisms. To answer your question one would have to be an expert in exorcisms.

JimiTime

Gareth37 wrote: »

Out of all the churches the Catholic Church seems to lead the way in exorcisms. To answer your question one would have to be an expert in exorcisms.

I don't want to be offensive, but I've seen this reasoning with othe Catholics before. A 'What would I know, I leave all that to the pro's' type of attitude. Don't you think you have a responsability to be informed yourself? Don't you feel that you can be easily decieved if you happily remain ignorant and leave all that stuff to the 'experts'? Does it not arise in you a question of, 'why don't the church appear to have the same authority as apostles, yet profess that they do?' I find the 'happy in ignorance' approach a little disconcerting when you are pushing this info out for others to see. Would it not be better to be a bit more responsible in your role as a Christian, and learn about the subject matter before churning it out for others?

kelly1

JimiTime wrote: »

Why? Are those prayers more potent? A self worded prayer to God through Christ would not be as potent?

As Genesis and Revelations make clear, The Blessed Virgin and St. Michael are arch-enemies of Satan.

JimiTime wrote: »

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall such a hulabaloo when demons were cast out in scripture. Why, if the church has apostolic authority can it not have such authority over unclean spirits?

According to "Interview with an Exorcist":-

"Since not all demons are from the same hierarchy, not all have the same power. As a result, some demons are more difficult to expel than others. Those demons who have angelic natures belonging to the highest choirs, are the most difficult to drive out of a body."

In Mark 9:17-18, for example, we read how the apostles could not expel a demon from a young boy. Later Jesus explained that this demon could only be driven out after prayer and fasting. So while they had the authority, they didn't have sufficent power so they needed to pray and fast in order to grow in holiness and increase in power.

JimiTime

kelly1 wrote: »

As Genesis and Revelations make clear, The Blessed Virgin and St. Michael are arch-enemies of Satan.

In the nicest tone ~(tone is very hard to get accross in writing:)) That doesn't answer my question.

Are those prayers more potent? A self worded prayer to God through Christ would not be as potent?

According to "Interview with an Exorcist":-

"Since not all demons are from the same hierarchy, not all have the same power. As a result, some demons are more difficult to expel than others. Those demons who have angelic natures belonging to the highest choirs, are the most difficult to drive out of a body.

In Mark 9:17-18, for example, we read how the apostles could not expel a demon from a young boy. Later Jesus explained that this demon could only be driven out after prayer and fasting. So while they had the authority, they didn't have sufficent power so they needed to pray and fast in order to grow in holiness and increase in power.

This was pre-holy spirit for the apostles, so they had not their authority yet. nor had they spiritually matured. You just need go back a few lines to see Jesus rebuke them.

condra

Exorcism is nonsense. Very harmful nonsense at that.

JimiTime

womoma wrote: »

Exorcism is nonsense. Very harmful nonsense at that.

Are you saying that as a christian? if so, how do you justfy your view? I'd agree that there are charlatans, but to say demon posession can't happen is to deny the gospel accounts is it not?
If you're not a christian, then your opinion on the matter is out of place here surely?

condra

Are you saying that as a christian?

I'm saying it as a free thinker, a skeptic, and an atheist.

your opinion on the matter is out of place here surely?

As far as I know, non Christians are welcome to share their views here as long as they aren't offending or threatening anyone.

Regardless, I didn't post because I was looking for an argument, rather just to have the skeptic view represented in order that people might give the subject more thought and enquiry.

JimiTime

womoma wrote: »

I'm saying it as a free thinker, a skeptic, and an atheist.

Grand, I take that as a no:)

As far as I know, non Christians are welcome to share their views here as long as they aren't offending or threatening anyone.

Not exactly. Coming into a thread and proclaiming 'Its all nonsense' is not welcome neither. Read the charter and you'll see that.

Regardless, I didn't post because I was looking for an argument, rather just to have the skeptic view represented in order that people might give the subject more thought and enquiry.

In fairness, you presented nothing but a rant. There was nothing 'free-thinking' or 'skeptical' in it. Just presenting an ubsubstantiated 'Its all nonsense' is hardly going to educate anyone now is it? Do you think it added anything constructive to this thread, or was it just a matter of getting something off your chest?

Rev Hellfire

As interesting as the almost obligatory decent of threads into RC vs Non-RC is these days.

What I would be more interested in (and even to an old sceptic like me) is have either of you two or any of the other Christians actually have first hand experience of demonic possession or influence ?

Would you say these influences are the exception or the rule for example in your view ?

Gareth37

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

As interesting as the almost obligatory decent of threads into RC vs Non-RC is these days.

Yes, that is very true. There is a huge questioning of the RC doctrine on here by both atheists and other Christians and furthermore a great skeptism towards many miracles and conversions experienced by millions of RCs. As a Catholic this makes me quite sad and a little offended.

Gareth37

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

What I would be more interested in (and even to an old sceptic like me) is have either of you two or any of the other Christians actually have first hand experience of demonic possession or influence ?

I have never had nor do I know of anyone who has. I have heard about a few exorcisms in the past including one way back when a Church of Ireland family needed a priest to do it. Appartently they swear by it. I think that the Church of Ireland and RCC work together on this now but Im not sure? As far as I know it was the local priest that performed it and he said that it was not someone who died in that house but died on the land.

fatmammycat

Gareth37 wrote: »

I have never had nor do I know of anyone who has. I have heard about a few exorcisms in the past including one way back when a Church of Ireland family needed a priest to do it. Appartently they swear by it. I think that the Church of Ireland and RCC work together on this now but Im not sure? As far as I know it was the local priest that performed it and he said that it was not someone who died in that house but died on the land.

Where was this and when, because to me it sound like hearsay. IF it is true there will be documented evidence of it.

JimiTime

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

As interesting as the almost obligatory decent of threads into RC vs Non-RC is these days.

Stirring the stinky stuff there Rev:) It just so happens that alot of non RC hold very differing views to the RCC, so its always going to happen. If its non abusive, then its not a problem. It is quite healthy to have ones idea's challenged. Here, in the Christianity forum, we do this with a common ground of belief in Christ. It can get tetchy at times, but such things happen when people are passionate. Calling it a 'decent' does not do it justice. We certainly see things get heated, but there is alot of good info exchanged, and I for one have learnt alot.

What I would be more interested in (and even to an old sceptic like me) is have either of you two or any of the other Christians actually have first hand experience of demonic possession or influence ?

Would you say these influences are the exception or the rule for example in your view ?

I'm delighted to say I've never encountered a posession, nor do I know anyone that has.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

I'm delighted to say I've never encountered a posession, nor do I know anyone that has.

I think the term demon possession is misleading and based on a mistranslation of Scripture. The Bible simply says that people were demonised.

I've seen a number of people who claimed to be influenced by demons. Most of them were, I believe, simply mentally ill or conforming to someone else's teachings and expectations.

I have encountered a few people (can count on the fingers of both hands) who, I believe, were genuinely suffering from demonic oppression. This included cases where inanimate objects would smash against walls as if thrown by an invisible person or where people began speaking in other voices (eg a teenage girl speaking with a deep man's voice in a way that would seem to me to be physically impossible.)

In all but one of these cases we simply prayed over them in the name of Jesus (no holy water, waving of crosses or other such jiggery pokery) and the problems ceased immediately.

The only exception was a case in Africa last year that defied any natural explanation and ended tragically. A teenage girl was brought to our meetings who kept making the most inhuman noises. Her mother testified that she had been OK until a teacher at school had 'given her some stones to eat'. I suspected these were some kind of drugs - but our African colleagues thought that it was some kind of occultic practice. We prayed for the girl, but also advised the mother to take her to a doctor. The mother said they couldn't afford it - so one of our team gave her the money to pay the doctor. The doctor could find nothing wrong.

A few days later (I had already flown home but the rest of our team was still there) the girl was in her home and began screaming that someone was strangling her. Her family watched as she acted as if an invisible person was throttling her. She kept screaming, "Get him off me!" Then she died.

Some members of our team went to the morgue in the hospital and spoke with some of the medical staff. A doctor told them that he ascribed the girl's death to witchcraft, and that this was not uncommon in that part of the country. Needless to say it shook some of our guys up considerably.

Goduznt Xzst

As a Christian I knew of people who claimed to be possessed, or be in the presence of Demons, it was always the people that others would whisper to themselves "well they would wouldn't they" You know the kind, the ones who, if they aren't religious, will claim to see Aliens or get abducted.

Much like the young girl in my school who would come in after Christmas and relay, with great detail, Santas arrival at her house, how he stayed for a few minutes and the differences between each of the reindeer. She would go on about it all day, and was surprised when others said they hadn't seen him.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

I think the term demon possession is misleading and based on a mistranslation of Scripture. The Bible simply says that people were demonised.

I saw your CS Lewis quote in another thead about Satan. An excellent point it was too, so I wont get bogged down about the intricicies of his workings. However, what of the 'we are legion', or the language like 'come out of him' etc. Does this not show that Demons were indeed influencing these people against their will? i.e. posessing them?

I've seen a number of people who claimed to be influenced by demons. Most of them were, I believe, simply mentally ill or conforming to someone else's teachings and expectations.

Unfortunately I've seen this myself.

I have encountered a few people (can count on the fingers of both hands) who, I believe, were genuinely suffering from demonic oppression. This included cases where inanimate objects would smash against walls as if thrown by an invisible person or where people began speaking in other voices (eg a teenage girl speaking with a deep man's voice in a way that would seem to me to be physically impossible.)

In all but one of these cases we simply prayed over them in the name of Jesus (no holy water, waving of crosses or other such jiggery pokery) and the problems ceased immediately.

This is what I would expect to happen, rather than days of battles and conversations with the demon. Invoking Christs name with faith and with the power of The Holy Spirit should cause such things to cease relatively quickly. Like it was in scripture.

The only exception was a case in Africa last year that defied any natural explanation and ended tragically. A teenage girl was brought to our meetings who kept making the most inhuman noises. Her mother testified that she had been OK until a teacher at school had 'given her some stones to eat'. I suspected these were some kind of drugs - but our African colleagues thought that it was some kind of occultic practice. We prayed for the girl, but also advised the mother to take her to a doctor. The mother said they couldn't afford it - so one of our team gave her the money to pay the doctor. The doctor could find nothing wrong.

A few days later (I had already flown home but the rest of our team was still there) the girl was in her home and began screaming that someone was strangling her. Her family watched as she acted as if an invisible person was throttling her. She kept screaming, "Get him off me!" Then she died.

Some members of our team went to the morgue in the hospital and spoke with some of the medical staff. A doctor told them that he ascribed the girl's death to witchcraft, and that this was not uncommon in that part of the country. Needless to say it shook some of our guys up considerably.

Sounds awful:(

AtomicHorror

PDN wrote: »

I think the term demon possession is misleading and based on a mistranslation of Scripture. The Bible simply says that people were demonised.

I've seen a number of people who claimed to be influenced by demons. Most of them were, I believe, simply mentally ill or conforming to someone else's teachings and expectations.

I have encountered a few people (can count on the fingers of both hands) who, I believe, were genuinely suffering from demonic oppression. This included cases where inanimate objects would smash against walls as if thrown by an invisible person or where people began speaking in other voices (eg a teenage girl speaking with a deep man's voice in a way that would seem to me to be physically impossible.)

In all but one of these cases we simply prayed over them in the name of Jesus (no holy water, waving of crosses or other such jiggery pokery) and the problems ceased immediately.

The only exception was a case in Africa last year that defied any natural explanation and ended tragically. A teenage girl was brought to our meetings who kept making the most inhuman noises. Her mother testified that she had been OK until a teacher at school had 'given her some stones to eat'. I suspected these were some kind of drugs - but our African colleagues thought that it was some kind of occultic practice. We prayed for the girl, but also advised the mother to take her to a doctor. The mother said they couldn't afford it - so one of our team gave her the money to pay the doctor. The doctor could find nothing wrong.

A few days later (I had already flown home but the rest of our team was still there) the girl was in her home and began screaming that someone was strangling her. Her family watched as she acted as if an invisible person was throttling her. She kept screaming, "Get him off me!" Then she died.

Some members of our team went to the morgue in the hospital and spoke with some of the medical staff. A doctor told them that he ascribed the girl's death to witchcraft, and that this was not uncommon in that part of the country. Needless to say it shook some of our guys up considerably.

Quite honestly, this sounds like superstitious people meets crap doctors.

JimiTime

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Quite honestly, this sounds like superstitious people meets crap doctors.

Quite honestly, only because thats what matches your world view. You may be right though. What of PDN's testimony of the flying inanimate objects?

AtomicHorror

JimiTime wrote: »

Quite honestly, only because thats what matches your world view.

My world view in which people some may be superstitious and some doctors in rural areas (and even urban areas) of some developing countries are well known to be beyond crap? Is that an outlandish world view? I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest my scenario to be more likely than an ill-defined phenomenon "possession".

JimiTime wrote: »

You may be right though. What of PDN's testimony of the flying inanimate objects?

Don't know enough about the circumstances there. A single sentence tells us very little, which is why I commented on the detailed story. It's quite possible that there was an unlikely coincidence of events, or that something very simple happened. It's possible that some form of hallucinogen poisoning was involved. Whatever the cause, that a phenomenon may defy simple explanation does not imply possession as defined by Christianity. How would you test conclusively that this was in fact the cause?

Gareth37

fatmammycat wrote: »

Where was this and when, because to me it sound like hearsay. IF it is true there will be documented evidence of it.

Hi fatmammycat.

Someone I know advised the family on farming practise - they have a big farm. He told me what they told him. At first they thought it was a person that died in the house a few month's earlier but the priest "closed the door" on it and said that it was another spirit. How he knew this I don't know. Im sure there are plenty of documents relating to this kind of stuff. Its nothing new.

AtomicHorror

Gareth37 wrote: »

Hi fatmammycat.

Someone I know advised the family on farming practise - they have a big farm. He told me what they told him. At first they thought it was a person that died in the house a few month's earlier but the priest "closed the door" on it and said that it was another spirit. How he knew this I don't know. Im sure there are plenty of documents relating to this kind of stuff. Its nothing new.

It'd be nice to have this evidence presented to us when you make a claim.

Gareth37

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It'd be nice to have this evidence presented to us when you make a claim.

Can you give me evidence that man walked in space? Maybe it was videotaped in a room

Sorry no evidence.

AtomicHorror

Gareth37 wrote: »

Can you give me evidence that man walked in space? Maybe it was videotaped in a room

Certainly. Personal statements from dozens of people involved in the first space walk and countless since then. I'm sure we could find similar statements from the intelligence agencies of competing nations as confirmation. Video footage which has been scrutinized in the finest detail by expert and conspiracy theorist alike. Reams of documents showing how the entire event was made possible technologically. Confirmation of such again from competing nations. Budgets showing the allocation of funds to support said research, development and launch. Most importantly we have reproducibility. The event has been demonstrated time and again by the Americans, Russians and now the Chinese.

If we ignore all of the above, we still have testability. And given that it would require three nations at odds to cooperate in a conspiracy if it were such, can you suggest to me what the motive for falsifying all of this would be?

Gareth37 wrote: »

Sorry no evidence.

Might I suggest that, where appropriate, evidence outweighs a lack of evidence? Does that sound reasonable? That observations of the world might supersede your under understanding of scripture and thus compel you to adjust your interpretation?

Goduznt Xzst

PDN wrote: »

A few days later (I had already flown home but the rest of our team was still there) the girl was in her home and began screaming that someone was strangling her. Her family watched as she acted as if an invisible person was throttling her. She kept screaming, "Get him off me!" Then she died.

Some members of our team went to the morgue in the hospital and spoke with some of the medical staff. A doctor told them that he ascribed the girl's death to witchcraft, and that this was not uncommon in that part of the country. Needless to say it shook some of our guys up considerably.

My issue with this account is that a girl lost her life and nobody is being held accountable for it due to a superstition that it must of been evil spirits. What if someone killed this girl and then made up this evil spirit story because they knew the locals would accept it?

Rev Hellfire

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

My issue with this account is that a girl lost her life and nobody is being held accountable for it due to a superstition that it must of been evil spirits. What if someone killed this girl and then made up this evil spirit story because they knew the locals would accept it?

I think you should re-read the account, the girl received medical attention, at least as much as was available.

Goduznt Xzst

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I think you should re-read the account, the girl received medical attention, at least as much as was available.

Yes but she didn't die in the hospital. The doctor could find nothing wrong with her and then she just dies at home? Supposedly from evil spirits strangling her? If this happened in central Dublin do you not think the police would find it very suspicious? Who knows what actually happened to this girl at her home and the person that has gotten away with this.

Rev Hellfire

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Yes but she didn't die in the hospital. The doctor could find nothing wrong with her and then she just dies at home?

That's got less to do with religion and more to do with the availability of medical cover in 3rd world countries.
To even compare the availability of medical cover in Africa to a wealthy European country is laughable.
That's a D- must try harder for you .