New Audi A4 TDI SE (120 BHP) or New Lexus IS220d

Maf180

Have whittled new car choice down to the following:

Cant decide what to go for between these two?

Any thoughts or advice?

EPM

Similar enough specs. Roadtests find the Audi better but the Lexus has a lot more power than the Audi so that could make a difference.

What do you need from a car etc?

-Chris-

Have you driven both? What did you think?

Drummerboy08

The Lexus would be alot quicker on the road, Thats probably the biggest difference... The Audi might be a little bit more desirable when it comes to changing it in a few years tho.. If it was me, i think i'd take the Audi.

Maf180

Have driven both, and finding it very difficult to choose.

Will be company car, so will be doing reasonably high mileage and think the Lexus may be more comfortable, but both great to drive.

Zonda999

I too would have the audi. I have been in the is and i really did find it like a toyota

E92

Maf180 wrote: »

Have whittled new car choice down to the following:

Cant decide what to go for between these two?

Any thoughts or advice?

Why are you going for only the 120 bhp version of the A4?

A fair comparison between these 2 cars involves the 170 bhp 2.0 TDI A4 and the Lexus. The Lexus has 177 bhp.

Both would seem to be very good cars, but there's no way in hell I'd even consider an A4 with a pitiful 120 bhp, especially when the 170 is in the same tax band.

So out of these 2 it would be the Lexus every time because of all that extra power; 120 bhp in that size of car is going to be woeful(the 143 bhp version of the 2.0 TDI A4 just about does the job, so at the very least you need to be looking at that engine).

Drummerboy08

E92 wrote: »

Why are you going for only the 120 bhp version of the A4?

A fair comparison between these 2 cars involves the 170 bhp 2.0 TDI A4 and the Lexus. The Lexus has 177 bhp.

Both would seem to be very good cars, but there's no way in hell I'd even consider an A4 with a pitiful 120 bhp, especially when the 170 is in the same tax band.

So out of these 2 it would be the Lexus every time because of all that extra power; 120 bhp in that size of car is going to be woeful(the 143 bhp version of the 2.0 TDI A4 just about does the job, so at the very least you need to be looking at that engine).

Have to love these guys. :rolleyes: I'd imagine in this day and age, his company are more interested in the price rather than power. And, afaik, there aint no 170bhp 2.0tdi A4. Its either the 120 or 143 2.0tdi, or a 2.7Tdi 190bhp. AND the price difference in these buses is nearly €13000. Worth it for an extra 70bhp? And the 2.0Tdi 120 and 143 are in tax band b, the 2.7tdi is in d.

alpina

OP: Just out of curiousity, how come the BMW 318d/320d did not make the shortlist? Personally have driven each of the 3 so was just curious...

Nice choices whichever you decide to chose, hope you don't get slaughtered on your trade in, if trading....

whiterebel

I had both these down as my choice, but the IS220 is very cramped in the back. Audi A4 is beautiful alround and at 120BHP is plenty quick. Personally went for the A6 because they were giving a much better deal for a car with a better spec. 136BHP diesel, still cheap to tax, service etc.

There is a 170BHP A4 too, BTW. 4K extra.

BMW not in the ball park price wise against the other 2 - about €11K extra for the 318D to get the same spec as the A4, 6k more against the Lexus.

Thread I started some time ago, does give some alternatives too, if you want. Bit of a long read though....

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055402193

SomeDude

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Have to love these guys. :rolleyes: I'd imagine in this day and age, his company are more interested in the price rather than power. And, afaik, there aint no 170bhp 2.0tdi A4.

The company may be more interested in the price, but what about the driver? I'd have to agree with E92. 120 BHP is not enough in a car of that size. Although I'm sure that's what the vast majority of A4s are sold with.

Overall the A4 is the better car. BUT given this choice I'd go for the IS. Acceleration and overtaking ability will be far better. This will make driving more enjoyable and safer (imo). If the A4 143 BHP is brought into the equation then I'd go for that over the IS.

I think the A4 170 TDI is available? I remember reading about it somewhere.

Henry Ford III

Noone mentioned a Skoda yet. What is this place coming to?

Berty

I have the previous model A4 and my next car is due to be the new shape A4. I do not want it and would prefer the Lexus. I dont like the look of the new A4 specifically the shape.

The lexus had more standard accesories on offer than the A4 and I like the fact it had more torque and was rear wheel driven. Nicer alloys well as standard.

Drummerboy08

Unfortunately the driver rarely gets what he wants - in so far as he'll get the car, but the exact spec. An FD in a company doesnt usually see the merits of 23 extra bhp for more money. He'll just settle on a car that looks the same, but is cheaper i.e the 120bhp A4 over the 143.

I cant see the 170bhp option anywhere, not on the Audi website, not on my Audi pricelist, is it a UK option?

whiterebel

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Unfortunately the driver rarely gets what he wants - in so far as he'll get the car, but the exact spec. An FD in a company doesnt usually see the merits of 23 extra bhp for more money. He'll just settle on a car that looks the same, but is cheaper i.e the 120bhp A4 over the 143.

I cant see the 170bhp option anywhere, not on the Audi website, not on my Audi pricelist, is it a UK option?

Couldn't feel the difference much between the 120 and 143 A4s personally.

On the audi.ie website, go to A4 saloon, and there is a link there for a .pdf download of the A4 pricelist. 170BHP is there is base, SE and Sport variants.

Drummerboy08

Aye, see it now. Is it worth four grand more? WOuld you not be better off saving a few quid, buyin the 120 and getting it chipped? The 120 is hardly slow as it is anyhow.

HashSlinging

Not sure if there is a map available for the 120bhp yet, but looks the best way to go, im sure the 120bhp could be mapped up to 170bhp anyway.

I'd say there's no difference between the two engines (120, 140).

Berty

I have a 06 Audi A4 which is re-mapped to 145bhp. You can definately feel the difference from a non chipped car.

Do not just buy an ECU chip. It only forces more fuel into the engine by tricking the ECU. Professional re-mapping is the only way to go.

Maf180

Cheers for the responses.

As many people said, it does come down to the price at the end of the day. Think I will go for the Lexus IS220d (177bhp and better looking in my opinion).

Also good deals on current model at the moment, as they are introducing a new trim come January.

rgiller

What jobs have you lot got that gives you a brand new junior exec car every couple of years? Engineering just doesn't pay.....

E92

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Have to love these guys. :rolleyes: I'd imagine in this day and age, his company are more interested in the price rather than power. And, afaik, there aint no 170bhp 2.0tdi A4. Its either the 120 or 143 2.0tdi, or a 2.7Tdi 190bhp. AND the price difference in these buses is nearly €13000. Worth it for an extra 70bhp? And the 2.0Tdi 120 and 143 are in tax band b, the 2.7tdi is in d.

Eh, no.

The 2.0 TDI 170 has been on sale since September, and it costs €39,400, just over €1,000(1,060 to be precise before I get corrected....) more than the IS.

The 2.0 TDI 170 is as I've already said in band B, so €156 to tax every year.

And the 2.7(which I never even so much as mentioned FWIW) is €8,300 more than the 2.0 TDI 170, which is a lot for just 20 bhp more(though you would be getting 6 cylinder noise and refinement thrown in for good measure too).

johnnyrotten

AUDI OOOO

fm

according to the audi site price list the avant doesnt have the 170 bhp only the 120,143 and then up to the 2.7 190 bhp

E92

fm wrote: »

according to the audi site price list the avant doesnt have the 170 bhp only the 120,143 and then up to the 2.7 190 bhp

Audi's website is quite out of date;)!

Drummerboy08

E92 wrote: »

Eh, no.

The 2.0 TDI 170 has been on sale since September, and it costs €39,400, just over €1,000(1,060 to be precise before I get corrected....) than the IS.

The 2.0 TDI 170 is as I've already said in band B, so €156 to tax every year.

And the 2.7(which I never even so much as mentioned FWIW) is €8,300 more than the 2.0 TDI 170, which is a lot for just 20 bhp more(though you would be getting 6 cylinder noise and refinement thrown in for good measure too).

Sorry, i made a genuine mistake. I did not realise the 170 was available to the irish market.

I was talking about the price difference between a 120 and the 2.7 190, and i think the power difference is 70bhp. How much extra pricewise is a 170 bhp over the 120? Is it really worth it? I dont see the point in spending that extra money, and i dont think the OP's boss would either, unless he knows his cars.

Chances are, they're going thru a leasing co for this? In which case, the leasing co wont put a higher residual on the 170, because to the majority of the market (or the trade seen as its going to be high mileage) wont see the difference between the 120 or the 170. Which means the 170 is prob more than 100 quid a month more expensive.

Just my opinion tho, no need to get in a twist over it..:eek:

E92

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

How much extra pricewise is a 170 bhp over the 120? Is it really worth it? I dont see the point in spending that extra money, and i dont think the OP's boss would either, unless he knows his cars.

It's €4,100 more than the 2.0 TDI 120, and €1,900 more than the 2.0 TDI 143.

I DO see the point in spending €4,100 more; unless your driving is exclusively city based, then the 50 bhp and 53 lb ft of torque is something you're going to notice everytime you drive it. That extra power is going to make your driving more relaxing when you're not in a rush, or when you need it it will make overtaking, acclerating up to the required speed on a dual carriageway/motorway to merge with traffice proerly much easier, quicker and therefore safer.

I haven't driven the A4, but I have gone in the 2.0 TDI 143 bhp version and I thought the engine was merely adequate.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Chances are, they're going thru a leasing co for this? In which case, the leasing co wont put a higher residual on the 170, because to the majority of the market (or the trade seen as its going to be high mileage) wont see the difference between the 120 or the 170. Which means the 170 is prob more than 100 quid a month more expensive.

I see where you're coming from, but you could argue exactly the same thing about leather, climate control etc, all these things do realistically is make your car more desirable, not worth more when you try and sell it on, so it's the same thing really.

All these things are "luxuries" if you like, and I'd gladly give up leather seats if it meant I could have a more powerful engine. What good are comfy leather seats if the car starts to annoy me because it is too slow to deal with everyday situations? You pays your money, and takes your choices, as they say.

Frankly I think anyone who buys a premium car like an A4 and then gets an un-premium low spec interior and small/low power engine is crazy.

That defeats the whole purpose of buying something "premium", if it's exactly the same as cheaper cars out there, just with a "better badge", IMHO.