Pandorama

Colonel Sanders

The latest Noel Meade hype horse runs again tomorrow. Up against a very smart type in Paul Nolan's Alpha Ridge. Could be an interesting race, Alpha Ridge has some of the best Irish novice hurdle form this year whereas Pandorama is still in the 'could be anything' bracket.

On actual form you could easily argue that Alpha Ridge is overpriced but Pandorama has looked a deeply promisiing horse and apparently connections think an awful lot of him

Colonel Sanders

1/2 Pandorama 3/1 Alpha Ridge altho only Powers have prices up on Oddschecker. Last time I checked Betfair Pandorama was about 4/6 and Alpha Ridge 3/1

rynners

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

The latest Noel Meade hype horse runs again tomorrow. Up against a very smart type in Paul Nolan's Alpha Ridge. Could be an interesting race, Alpha Ridge has some of the best Irish novice hurdle form this year whereas Pandorama is still in the 'could be anything' bracket.

On actual form you could easily argue that Alpha Ridge is overpriced but Pandorama has looked a deeply promisiing horse and apparently connections think an awful lot of him

thanks for the heads up about him running tomorrow. I'm definately a pandorma fan so far.

Cantoris

I think Pandorama will do well on really soft ground but I have a feeling he is one paced, although that is a very good pace. He has looked in trouble turning in a few times but grinds it out and ultimately he looks impressive. I think he will prob win if the ground is soft but if not he may struggle on faster tracks like Leopardstown.

Hino

Pandorama will be Irelands most likely Gold Cup horse for the future. Bred by the superb Flemfirth and should win tomoro. Never even off the bridle yet and seems a relentless galloper. Much like Denman moult of horse

fr wishy washy

His jumping will get a good test today which I expect him to pass.

One thing's for sure is that we should get a good gallop as Alpha Ridge won in bottomless over 3 mls lto.


I will be very very dissapointed if Pandorama gets beat today.

rynners

Good horse,
I think he definately has another 2 gears given the way he pulled 2/3 furlongs out. Sometimes it can be a worry if they have another one but i think in this case it's safe to say he has. Impressed.

fr wishy washy

That was awesome,never off the bridle:pac:

Frankie Lee

Successful trainer, Noel Meade said: "Wow, that would keep you dreaming. He was awesome. He handles soft ground really well, he has a huge engine and is very clear winded. He probably is best on soft ground and I wouldn't like to see him running on fast ground. He only has a very light pedigree but he is really laid back and his next start will be in the Barry & Sandra Kelly Memorial Novice Hurdle here (December 14th) and then he'll have a break before coming back in the spring."

I wonder whether Noel Meade is trying to dampen expectation for Cheltenham on the soft ground comments or if he is being honest.
I slept in this morning so I didn't see the race.

Also fair play to Dessie Hughes over in Aintree with Black Appalachi and Oulart in the Beechers.

rynners

Frankie Lee wrote: »

his next start will be in the Barry & Sandra Kelly Memorial Novice Hurdle here (December 14th) and then he'll have a break before coming back in the spring."

I think this is the telling part. I spoke with meade when I lodged my horse with him and asked him if he trains particularily for Cheltenham, he said no, that he tries to keep a horse ticking over the year round. Now maybe he was telling fibs, but why would he? and maybe he's slightly changed his methods in the last couple of years with his cheltenham hopefuls. he isn't one for bulling up his horses.

fr wishy washy

Surely unlikely to get his ground at Cheltenham yet backed in to 6/1

Hino

Chelteham is always good to soft on the opening day. It always has and always will as they need good jumping ground. Its unlikely that there wont be some bit of cut in the ground come march and the horse has so much class and ability that the ground shouldnt inconvence him too much. Sure he is superb on bottomless ground but he has won today by 27l eased down 200 yards before the line and not even asked any question whatsoever.

I personally would have him 3/1 for any race come march and once he puts in a performance of the same class in a grade 1 his price will tumble. I got my 50 e/w at 12s and delighted with that to be honest. The only way this horse wont win at the festival if he falls....coz i believe there is nothing in the class of him in his specific division this year that we have seen so far.

A real prospect!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Cantoris

I don't know, it all sounds very familiar. Here are the comments from Meade at similar times with Aran Concerto. Pandorama is a fine prospect and one that should do very well during the winter months but no price is a good price for Cheltenham unless you are convinced he goes on good ground (isn't the Ballymore on day 2?).

16 Oct 2006 - maiden hurdle by 17 lengths
I probably shouldn't say it, but this horse just could be the best I've had. I think he has the potential to be a Gold Cup horse one day. We'll just have to wait and see how he develops and I'd imagine he is more likely to run over hurdles than go for a winner’s bumper. He will be going chasing next season

17 Dec 2006 - Barry and Sandra Kelly
He's shown today that he really is a serious horse.

10 Feb 2007 - Deloitte
Everybody knows what I think about this horse. He's well balanced, he's got gears, stamina and he settles well - he's the real deal.

mdwexford

Hino wrote: »

Chelteham is always good to soft on the opening day. It always has and always will as they need good jumping ground. Its unlikely that there wont be some bit of cut in the ground come march and the horse has so much class and ability that the ground shouldnt inconvence him too much. Sure he is superb on bottomless ground but he has won today by 27l eased down 200 yards before the line and not even asked any question whatsoever.

I personally would have him 3/1 for any race come march and once he puts in a performance of the same class in a grade 1 his price will tumble. I got my 50 e/w at 12s and delighted with that to be honest. The only way this horse wont win at the festival if he falls....coz i believe there is nothing in the class of him in his specific division this year that we have seen so far.

A real prospect!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

lmao, alright huge over-reaction.

Also it was fast ground in 2000 for the festival, not a hint of soft at all.

Frankie Lee

He could be a bit like Nickname, however I hope and suspect he goes on good ground.

Crumbs

mdwexford wrote: »

Also it was fast ground in 2000 for the festival, not a hint of soft at all.

While I appreciate that you're responding to Hino's comment about there always being good to soft ground on Cheltenham's opening day in the past, the point stands that organisers won't allow anything but "safe" ground nowadays since the multiple deaths a few years ago.

Pandorama looks really good but I've no interest in backing him for Cheltenham myself.

RichieLawlor

mdwexford wrote: »

lmao, alright huge over-reaction.

Also it was fast ground in 2000 for the festival, not a hint of soft at all. if mcmanus owned him i would back him cause he would win

imo

Cantoris

Having been lucky enought to have a runner on the first day of the Festival for four years and having walked the track each year the day before and morning of race, the ground is always on the softer side on day one but it dries out very very quickly. What is important to the speed it dries out is whether there is a good covering of grass on it or not. Over those four years I saw all sorts of ground, particularly coming down from the top of the hill and round the home turn. It was bare one year.

Frankie Lee

I can't remember bottomless ground at Cheltenham though and there is a huge difference between soft and heavy.

fr wishy washy

Frankie Lee wrote: »

He could be a bit like Nickname, however I hope and suspect he goes on good ground.

Very unlikely to be "risked" again on fast ground according to Meade after Sundays demolition job.

Never bank on soft ground at the festival.

Frankie Lee

I'll wait till the middle of february and then see the weather forecast.

chinguetti

Can i just say its the end of November and people are already wondering what the ground will be like in mid March? Alot can happen between now and then and Meade hasn't had the best of luck up that hill. Most horses given as sure things from Ireland in novice races are found out come March as its the first time they race in a true run gallop, are always on the turn or going up or down a hill and encounter a 20 runner field than the usual 6 or 8 for the first time.

Keep you're money under your bed for now as they'll be plenty value to oppose him on the day if people study the form.

Frankie Lee

I got captain cee bee early last year, I believe there is value to be had ante post, if you can spot a genuinely class horse and I had Venalmar at 50-1 beat by a nose.
Everything Pandorama has done so far has been sensational, and there is nothing else in the that has caught the eye when you look at the Ballymore next march.

clivebaby

Hes some horse alright.Noel Meade said its his best young prospect he has.

Morgans

chinguetti wrote: »

Can i just say its the end of November and people are already wondering what the ground will be like in mid March? Alot can happen between now and then and Meade hasn't had the best of luck up that hill. Most horses given as sure things from Ireland in novice races are found out come March as its the first time they race in a true run gallop, are always on the turn or going up or down a hill and encounter a 20 runner field than the usual 6 or 8 for the first time.

Keep you're money under your bed for now as they'll be plenty value to oppose him on the day if people study the form.

Or you can bet ante post and lay off. Indeed people are quick to remember Aran Concerto and Sweet Wake but quick to forget Istabraq, Danoli, Like A Butterfly, even Captain Cee Bee who were all ante post favs at one stage or another.

I personally thought that Alpha Ridge was very impressive in Cork and while stepping back in distance, Pandorama didnt half treat him as if he was a plater. Time of this maiden win have time experts (Mordin especially) creaming their trousers.

chinguetti

Antepost has its moments but you would want savage information to be piling on months beforehand. Always find the Cheltenham meetings (The Open, Boylesports, New Year's and Pillar Chase) give the best info on antepost for March. If they act on track then, they usually do alright come the big day

fr wishy washy

chinguetti wrote: »

l. Most horses given as sure things from Ireland in novice races are found out come March as its the first time they race in a true run gallop, are always on the turn or going up or down a hill

Can be very rough races as well with everyone trying to get a position,all things said though this horse looks the business:)

Morgans

chinguetti wrote: »

Antepost has its moments but you would want savage information to be piling on months beforehand. Always find the Cheltenham meetings (The Open, Boylesports, New Year's and Pillar Chase) give the best info on antepost for March. If they act on track then, they usually do alright come the big day

Interesting theory, and checked the results to see how it fits historically with the novice hurdles, since 1992, 2 winners of the Supreme Novices Hurdle had previous course experience over hurdle (Noland and Hors La Loi III) and one winner of the Sun Alliance hurdle had run over hurdles during the same period (Massini's Maguire)

The relative superiority of the Irish horses in the period probably doesnt help the stats, and of course the theory of using course form for other races does make sense.

Cantoris

In the Supreme, the Deloitte has always been a good indicator over the years. Doesn't always work but they have a reasonably good record.

BobbyD10

I think it is still hard to gauge how good he is.

Obviously there is a lot of potential but time will tell I guess.

chinguetti

Morgans, i've also used it in other races too, 2m 5f hurdles and chases. It has worked somewhat well on occasions. I try to avoid the tips for every Irish horse in a race as people aren't thinking straight and not using their brain or wallet!

Preview nights are useless unless you have an English jockey there for a proper constrast on form. Richard Johnson was in Adare a few years at one and was very good.

Had Massini's at 66 last year and need to check my records for others. Twas a bad festival for me last year. He and Fingeronthepulse saved me from the poor house. However Hardy in the Champion at 33 a few years ago still rankles after he had won the previous year. Funny how you always remember the ones that got away!

Bluetonic

http://www.irish-racing.com/v4card099200812141320.htm

rynners

licking my lips if they run.. it'd be brilliant.

premierstone

grrrrrrr cant access the link in work can someone give me the jist of it cheers!!

rynners

Navan Sun 14th Dec Entries




1.20 Barry & Sandra Kelly Memorial Novice Hdl (Grade 1) of €90,000.00 4-y-o plus
2m. 4f. 2nd - €18,000.00, 3rd - €9,000.00, 4th - €3,600.00, 25 Entered

A novice hurdle race for four yrs old and upwards
Weights - 4-y-o 11st 6lb; 5-y-o and up 11st 10lb; Mares allowed 5lb
1 21311 Academy Sir Harry Eoin Griffin

2 361112 Alpha Ridge Paul Nolan 131

3 11-742-5 Attercliffe Noel Meade

4 12 Clan Tara Paul Nolan

5 11-24F2 Corskeagh Royale Noel Meade

6 11-0 Cottage Oak Noel Meade

7 1113 Cousin Vinny W P Mullins

8 2-728 Lifes Star Noel Meade

9 2-101 Mahonia P F Nicholls


10 114-1 Massasoit P F Nicholls

11 391P94 Meadow Vale P A Fahy 119


12 12-5214 Oscar Dan Dan Thomas Mullins

13 4-11111 Pandorama Noel Meade

14 3/980 Steve Silvermint Philip Fenton

15 314 Across The Bay Noel Meade

16 233 Ardglen John Joseph Hanlon

17 112 Donnas Palm Noel Meade

18 731502 Dorset Square John Joseph Murphy 101

19 7-11 Hurricane Fly W P Mullins

20. 1 mikael d'haguenet W P Mullins


21 13 Quiscover Fontaine W P Mullins

22 213212 Realt Dubh Noel Meade

23 011915 Vital Plot D K Weld

24 0-714 Aura About You Paul Nolan

25 2119 Grancore Girl Thomas Gerard O'Leary

Frankie Lee

Excellent if it happens.

Bluetonic

Oh dear, the five day stage is a disgrace.

Whilst a number of conditions could be a factor for many of the horses not making the later stages of the declarations, one can't help but feel that connections really don't want their horses running against Pandorama. Hopefully at least these 4 remain for the overnights come Friday.

Decent prize money in this race too

Barry & Sandra Kelly Memorial Novice Hdl (Grade 1) of €90,000.00 4-y-o plus
2m. 4f. 2nd - €18,000.00, 3rd - €9,000.00, 4th - €3,600.00

1 7-14 AURA ABOUT YOU 5 11-5 Paul Nolan — 97 134
2 112 DONNAS PALM 4 11-6 Noel Meade — 134 139
3 6-21 MIKAEL D´HAGUENET 4 11-6 W P Mullins — 35 129
4 -111 PANDORAMA 5 11-10 Noel Meade — 159 159

Shan75

It's a bit of a joke really with the amount of prize money on offer.You'd imagine all 4 should run as they are guaranteed prize money just for finishing.Also second prize 18k is not to be sniffed at.Not much of a betting race though but it will be nice to see Pandorama again.

Frazzled

Shan75 wrote: »

It's a bit of a joke really with the amount of prize money on offer.You'd imagine all 4 should run as they are guaranteed prize money just for finishing.Also second prize 18k is not to be sniffed at.Not much of a betting race though but it will be nice to see Pandorama again.

I would be surprised if Donna's runs so soon after the Royal Bond and against his stablemate, although they are different owners.

The Mullins horse is very very good IMO so this should be an interesting contest even if the entries are a farce!

Colonel Sanders

Bit of a turn uo at Navan altho apparently Willie's horse is very well thought of and was well backed beforehand

Rather than a case of Pandorama not being the superstar he's been hyped up to be I think it could actually be a case of there being 2 superstars in the field

Frazzled

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Bit of a turn uo at Navan altho apparently Willie's horse is very well thought of and was well backed beforehand

Rather than a case of Pandorama not being the superstar he's been hyped up to be I think it could actually be a case of there being 2 superstars in the field

Pandorama ran right up to his form IMO.

The winner is a very good horse indeed.

Shan75

Frazzled wrote: »

I would be surprised if Donna's runs so soon after the Royal Bond and against his stablemate, although they are different owners.

The Mullins horse is very very good IMO so this should be an interesting contest even if the entries are a farce!

Good Call.

mdwexford

Bubble burst early, pity really, wanted him to stay unbeaten till the festival so i could have laid him at 2/1 or something silly like that.

Colonel Sanders

mdwexford wrote: »

Bubble burst early, pity really, wanted him to stay unbeaten till the festival so i could have laid him at 2/1 or something silly like that.

You might still get the chance! I thought all along he might well end up in the 3 mile novice race. Surely no chance of him going the Ballymore race now

Frazzled

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

You might still get the chance! I thought all along he might well end up in the 3 mile novice race. Surely no chance of him going the Ballymore race now

Interesting to see what they do with the winner.

He has a very rounded action and if the ground is decent at the festival he may not go there. He should win anything he runs in if it is softish ground as I am more impressed by him than I have been about a novice for quite a few years.

chinguetti

Just cause Pandorama got beaten doesn't mean the world ends. There's plenty more races in the world than a 2m 5f race in March. anyway word has it he needs soft going which he probably won't get in March.

Cantoris

Cantoris wrote: »

I don't know, it all sounds very familiar. Here are the comments from Meade at similar times with Aran Concerto. Pandorama is a fine prospect and one that should do very well during the winter months but no price is a good price for Cheltenham unless you are convinced he goes on good ground (isn't the Ballymore on day 2?).

16 Oct 2006 - maiden hurdle by 17 lengths
I probably shouldn't say it, but this horse just could be the best I've had. I think he has the potential to be a Gold Cup horse one day. We'll just have to wait and see how he develops and I'd imagine he is more likely to run over hurdles than go for a winner’s bumper. He will be going chasing next season

17 Dec 2006 - Barry and Sandra Kelly
He's shown today that he really is a serious horse.

10 Feb 2007 - Deloitte
Everybody knows what I think about this horse. He's well balanced, he's got gears, stamina and he settles well - he's the real deal.

well at least Aran Concerto has a second gear. Pandorama is just one paced and will need three miles.