Stargate rip off Star Trek

Derek Coleman

I've seen every DS9 TNG VOY ENT and every Stargate and I cant help but notice simularities in the two franchises.

1. The DS9 Wormhole/Stargate wormhole.
2. Teal'c is kinda simular character to Worf.
3. In DS9 there was a Lt. chulak/Teal'c 's homeworld - chulak.
4. Profits and Pa'raits/Ancients and Ori (even down to the fire).
5. Very simular storylines.

If I sat down and watched every episode I would be able to give tens of examples. I know its not concrete evidence but there are too many things simular to ignore. But did they rip off Star Trek or Pay homage to Star Trek. That's always the question. They even got a Batleth into a Stargate episode (The one with Doctor Phlox in it).

norrie rugger

just on your number 1
Stargate movie was around well before ds9

nyarlothothep

Never really liked the Stargate series. The movie was very good but the series was just a bit cheap, and they always went to the same alpine forest land over and over again.

Podge_irl

It wouldn't be all that hard to find similarities between every sci-fi show ever made.

Vokes

norrie rugger wrote: »

just on your number 1
Stargate movie was around well before ds9

DS9 arrived '93. Stargate in '94, no ?


Anyway, it's a moot point. Wormholes are fairly common plot devices in sci-fi.

Brimmy

Besides you can't feel aggrieved over it if they did anyway seeing as DS9 completely ripped off Babylon 5.

starn

Tealc is a knock off of Spock dude, not Worf.

Irishtrekkie

Brimmy wrote: »

Besides you can't feel aggrieved over it if they did anyway seeing as DS9 completely ripped off Babylon 5.

yea by DS9 being a better show ?

just like the new battlestar galatica ripes of space above and beyound. but using the same stories lines but being a worse show.

Vokes

Vokes wrote: »

DS9 arrived '93. Stargate in '94, no ?

Correct.

Rawr

starn wrote: »

Tealc is a knock off of Spock dude, not Worf.

I would feel that it's a little of both here. Teal'c is pretty much SG1's token 'Klingon Worf' character.

I would recon that a lot of Sci-Fi writers are influenced by the sci-fi they see and since Star Trek and Star Wars are the big boys in the genre, a lot of the ideas out there would mirror them (or other series).

I have seen the 'Kingon Worf' character in many series. Andromeda had that guy in dreds, FarScape had that alien guy....in dreds. There are others, but can't think of them right now.... Point is, Worf worked out as a pretty good character in Star Trek. Writers probably saw this formula of an honor-driven aggressive warrior character (usually from an enemy race) as something needed to make a 'Star Trek beater'.

Unfortunatly, in most cases they would forget to write a good character for their 'Kingon Worf' and thus fail altogether. Worf himself was pretty good character behind the formula.

However, on topic, does Stargate rip off Star Trek?
Pretty much...yes it does.
However, I think it's mostly due to a lack of choices. There are only so many different situations and combinations you can pull off until you end up copying another series, somehow, somewhere. SG1 and Atlantis ended up a lot like Star Trek, due to the merit of them actually having a fleet of Starships, transporters, shields...etc....Atlantis itself feels like a take of DS9 with 'Bajorans' (sort of) aswell!

Ron DMC

Rawr wrote: »

SG1 and Atlantis ended up a lot like Star Trek, due to the merit of them actually having a fleet of Starships, transporters, shields...etc....Atlantis itself feels like a take of DS9 with 'Bajorans' (sort of) aswell!

Prepare for even more similarities with the new Stargate: Universe. It's set on a ship that is travelling through a new galaxy on a pre-determined course and the crew can only explore the planets that the ship goes by, and they don't know if they can ever get home.

Voyager much?

Rawr

Ronny Mitchell wrote: »

Prepare for even more similarities with the new Stargate: Universe. It's set on a ship that is travelling through a new galaxy on a pre-determined course and the crew can only explore the planets that the ship goes by, and they don't know if they can ever get home.

Voyager much?

Very much indeed. The 'don't know if they can ever get home' spin was also used for Atlantis in the beginning too. It tastes like they are running out of steam with the Stargate franchise. SG1 have gone through plenty of big baddies, they pretty much know everything about Atlantis and you can only kill Lego Monsters so many times before it becomes tiresome.

It feels like they should just give it a rest.

IvySlayer

They're the same genre, so don't be surprised of the similar storylines.

Star Trek is the best though......

Except ENT.

somuj

Ronny Mitchell wrote: »

Prepare for even more similarities with the new Stargate: Universe. It's set on a ship that is travelling through a new galaxy on a pre-determined course and the crew can only explore the planets that the ship goes by, and they don't know if they can ever get home.

Voyager much?

By your nonsense logic voyager must be a rip off of quantum leap or any other program were sumone is stranded.

I suppose I cud even stretech it to say that Voyager was a rip off of lost in space. See how stupid that sounds.

One can find similarities in anything.

Stargate and Star trek and completely different programs. Just because they now have ships in stargate does not make it a clone.

sexmag

Derek Coleman wrote: »

I've seen every DS9 TNG VOY ENT and every Stargate and I cant help but notice simularities in the two franchises.

1. The DS9 Wormhole/Stargate wormhole.
2. Teal'c is kinda simular character to Worf.
3. In DS9 there was a Lt. chulak/Teal'c 's homeworld - chulak.
4. Profits and Pa'raits/Ancients and Ori (even down to the fire).
5. Very simular storylines.

If I sat down and watched every episode I would be able to give tens of examples. I know its not concrete evidence but there are too many things simular to ignore. But did they rip off Star Trek or Pay homage to Star Trek. That's always the question. They even got a Batleth into a Stargate episode (The one with Doctor Phlox in it).

blasfamy,of course there are gona be sum smilarities seeing as there both science fiction but stargate has a whole different feel and attitude to it than star trek

Ron DMC

somuj wrote: »

By your nonsense logic voyager must be a rip off of quantum leap or any other program were sumone is stranded.

I suppose I cud even stretech it to say that Voyager was a rip off of lost in space. See how stupid that sounds.

One can find similarities in anything.

Stargate and Star trek and completely different programs. Just because they now have ships in stargate does not make it a clone.

Well I actually agree with you that they are only similar because it's scifi, but I can see why the OP saw similarities.
I'm a big fan of both shows and for different reasons. Neither show would be successful if they hadn't stolen/borrowed/taken inspiration from other shows/books/films, but they would also never have been successful without their own new ideas and original spin on things.

I used the voyager comparison as an example because a few people in the SG forum have taken to referring to the upcoming SG: Universe as Stargate Voyager.

Rawr

sexmag wrote: »

blasfamy,of course there are gona be sum smilarities seeing as there both science fiction but stargate has a whole different feel and attitude to it than star trek

I would agree with you there sexmag. As I said little earlier, I felt that a lack of choices would eventually cause a show in this genre to use an idea already covered before. However, I do feel that Stargate certainly put an effort into a different style of storytelling, carrying on from the Army/Airforce approach of the film. They weren't exploring for the sake of exploring, they were pretty much at war and needed to find stuff to win it.

I do feel that Stargate: Universe may be stretching an already over-stretched franchise too far. I could very well be wrong, but the concept covers ground that was covered before. To work, I feel that the style or character and storytelling will need to be different to both Star Trek and it's parent franchise.

DenMan

You're right there OP, I personally think it is down to bad writing. What I can't understand is how Atlantis found itself in the position it was before it was cancelled. The removal of Ford was stupid imo. He was a young and eager soldier and would have been brilliant as a character. The actor himself got fed up with the lack of direction (as expected). Then the main character (Weir) leaves as well....wtf...that is terrible production and again shows bad writing. Could you imagine Patrick Stewart, Avery Brooks, Richard Dean Anderson having to leave because of a lack of direction for their characters, it just doesn't happen. They map out a few seasons in advance. The fcuked it up and now seeing that the series is cancelled (99 episodes) the new brain storming plan over in Vancouver is to do a new series (a la Voyager) when it is clear they had a lack of direction for Atlantis. I feel sorry for the cast and crew who will be working on the new series. Expect more Star Trek references and frustrated fans. Rant over (for now).

nyarlothothep

IvySlayer wrote: »

They're the same genre, so don't be surprised of the similar storylines.

Star Trek is the best though......

Except ENT.

and Voyager.

(ENT was ok apart from the rednecks in space angle they were clearly going for).

Mal-Adjusted

Trek & SG share some base elements, but they are still compleatley diffirent shows. the stargates are very much adventure series with a little bit of tongue-in-cheek.Trek always felt a little sterile, even Voyager (the most palatable of the series) besides DS9, Trek never made the story arc work (except season 3 of ENT). this is something SG-1 has pulled off to great effect.

Teal'c and Wark are both strong dudes and oth black, the similarities really end there.:)

Oh, and dont forget, people were calling Atlantis Stargate: Voyager before they saw that show too...and were proven wrong...don't be too quick to judge Universe until you've finally seen it.:rolleyes:

Lobelia Overhill

DenMan wrote: »

You're right there OP, I personally think it is down to bad writing. What I can't understand is how Atlantis found itself in the position it was before it was cancelled. The removal of Ford was stupid imo. He was a young and eager soldier and would have been brilliant as a character. The actor himself got fed up with the lack of direction (as expected). Then the main character (Weir) leaves as well....wtf...that is terrible production and again shows bad writing. Could you imagine Patrick Stewart, Avery Brooks, Richard Dean Anderson having to leave because of a lack of direction for their characters, it just doesn't happen. They map out a few seasons in advance. The fcuked it up and now seeing that the series is cancelled (99 episodes) the new brain storming plan over in Vancouver is to do a new series (a la Voyager) when it is clear they had a lack of direction for Atlantis. I feel sorry for the cast and crew who will be working on the new series. Expect more Star Trek references and frustrated fans. Rant over (for now).

ditto ... and a round of applause for summing it up in one paragraph where I'd have been on page 10 by now LOL

I'm a lifelong Trekkie and have converted to Gaterism (forgive me Great Bird of The Galaxy, for I have sinned). I watched DS9 and SG-1 and where there are similarities, they are also very different shows with their own plus and minus points. The comparison between characters carries over to other shows, ther other night I watched Serenity and was stuck by how much Team Atlantis resembles the Browncoats. I've never watched B5 and only saw a few episodes of the re-imagining of BG so I can't speak to them.

Ultimately my preference lies with the Gate on grounds that it's contemporary and not set several hundred years in the future - one of my bug bears about Trek was the whole "Americanisation" of everything in the future

Although I will "quote" Jason whatsisname (he was the Ranger in B5) who said at a Con why all the infighting, can't you just appreciate the genre as a whole?

Wise words ...

Badhbh

somuj wrote: »

By your nonsense logic voyager must be a rip off of quantum leap or any other program were sumone is stranded.

I suppose I cud even stretech it to say that Voyager was a rip off of lost in space. See how stupid that sounds.

One can find similarities in anything.

Stargate and Star trek and completely different programs. Just because they now have ships in stargate does not make it a clone.

I tend to agree with you there. I'm a big fan of both Stargate SG1 and StarTrek Vogager. Both were great Sci-Fi. At least Stargate tried to explain how English was so prevalent in the cosmos. (with the Gaou'd taking Earth slaves abroad) But that Stargate Atlantis was crap.

Lobelia Overhill

Badhbh wrote: »

At least Stargate tried to explain how English was so prevalent in the cosmos. (with the Gaou'd taking Earth slaves abroad)

yes, but then they'd all be speaking ancient Egyptian. I prefer my own reasoning as to why everyone "speaks" English

Ron DMC

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

I prefer my own reasoning as to why everyone "speaks" English

Care to enlighten us?

Derek Coleman

You know what really pissed me off about Star Trek?

When someone touches their com badge and says the persons name they want to contact.... that person hears them immediately!! Thats more impressive than transporting. Some times they wouldn't even say their name. I'm watching a show about Space exploration and I seriously couldn't get over the whole com badge thing. How sad.

And just to continue the ridiculous mental problems that plague me...

Why didn't the Puddle jumpers in Atlantis cloak before they enter the stargate instead of afterwards? Did they ever explain that? Seems like a massive mistake to continually make just to endanger the Atlantis teams. Actually don't get me started on Puddle jumpers. The explanation for not using a Puddle jumper to go to every planet is terrible. The foliage is too dense! When there is clearly lots of room around every gate to allow room for the dialling device.

You'd think I'd have half a brain to realise its only a show but damn it I don't.

Lobelia Overhill

Ronny Mitchell wrote: »

Care to enlighten us?

Why yes!

*a-hem*

*shuffles notes*

*adjusts specs*

My hypothesis is that when one is remolecularised exiting a wormhole, the Gate you step through (NOT the one you came from) "fiddles" with your brain so that the people on the planet hear you speak their language, and you hear them speaking yours. So when Zelenka speaks Czech the aliens can understand him. We can't because he's not speaking an "alien" language, just a regional variation on whatever the original language was used on Earth when the Gate was first put there.
It doesn't translate Goa'uld because the Goa'uld are parasites living inside a host's head and their lickle brain isn't affected by the Gate "fiddle".
Similarly it didn't translate the "whales" in SGA's Echoes as the words were coming from the whales who've never been through Gate ...
Thusly Teal'c hears everyone speak Chulakish, Ronon hears everyone speaking Satedan, Teyla hears everyone speaking Athosian, everyone else hears them speak English ...

Well it made sense in my head LOL

Derek Coleman wrote:

When someone touches their com badge and says the persons name they want to contact.... that person hears them immediately!! Thats more impressive than transporting. Some times they wouldn't even say their name. I'm watching a show about Space exploration and I seriously couldn't get over the whole com badge thing. How sad.

I remember one of the cast of TNG wondering [in real life] why they never switched the things off when they were done talking, which is true! I always assumed that when, say, Picard taps his badge and wants to speak to Riker, everyone hears the call, but only Riker taps his communicator to reply. Technically speaking anyone could answer, but out of politeness they don't.

I'd have thought the same thing happened in Stargate with their radios (which was why SG-1 always left the earwig hanging and not stuck in their ear all the time), but then apparently only "Jennifer"s radio was picking up a message for Dr Keller in SGA's Identity

Why didn't the Puddle jumpers in Atlantis cloak before they enter the stargate instead of afterwards? Did they ever explain that?

I've got a feeling they did somewhere, I can't remember what the reasoning was, might have been something about the Gate not being able to properly detect the people inside a cloaked Jumper, therefore they'd not be remolecularised properly.

Or something.

Actually don't get me started on Puddle jumpers. The explanation for not using a Puddle jumper to go to every planet is terrible. The foliage is too dense! When there is clearly lots of room around every gate to allow room for the dialling device.

That's a damn good question ... I believe it had more to do with the [real life] practicalities of shooting in cramped conditions than for any [fictional] reasons given on screen. Like the teams should really be wearing helmets, but they don't for some real life practicality reasons ... might have been RDA not wanting "helmet hair" and the others followed suit LOL

You'd think I'd have half a brain to realise its only a show but damn it I don't.

Nah it's not "just a show", it's a way of life!

Lobelia Overhill

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Oh, and dont forget, people were calling Atlantis Stargate: Voyager before they saw that show too...and were proven wrong...don't be too quick to judge Universe until you've finally seen it.:rolleyes:

We were? I seem to remember calling it Stargate: Deep Space Nine ... :P

Mal-Adjusted

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

We were? I seem to remember calling it Stargate: Deep Space Nine ... :P

um, yea....okay?

Ron DMC

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

My hypothesis is that when one is remolecularised exiting a wormhole, the Gate you step through (NOT the one you came from) "fiddles" with your brain so that the people on the planet hear you speak their language, and you hear them speaking yours. So when Zelenka speaks Czech the aliens can understand him. We can't because he's not speaking an "alien" language, just a regional variation on whatever the original language was used on Earth when the Gate was first put there.
It doesn't translate Goa'uld because the Goa'uld are parasites living inside a host's head and their lickle brain isn't affected by the Gate "fiddle".
Similarly it didn't translate the "whales" in SGA's Echoes as the words were coming from the whales who've never been through Gate ...
Thusly Teal'c hears everyone speak Chulakish, Ronon hears everyone speaking Satedan, Teyla hears everyone speaking Athosian, everyone else hears them speak English ...

So if you gate to a planet, you start speaking their language. What if instead of gating back to Earth you came in a ship. Would you then be speaking alien to everyone on Earth?

Rawr

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

yes, but then they'd all be speaking ancient Egyptian. I prefer my own reasoning as to why everyone "speaks" English

I'm guessing the main reason is budget and casting for TV Stargate.

In Star Trek, the fact that most people spoke 'English' was down to someone usually having a Universal Translator.

However, Stargate is set in the present day and thus without such a device, the alien races would speak their own languages....or at least should. If you remember the original Stargate film, you'll remember that the people of Abados, Ra and his Jaffa all spoke Ancient Egyptian; which Jackson had to translate. This was abandoned when SG1 came along, and thereafter all cast spoke English with some brief Ancient Egyptian lines in the early seasons with Apophis and the Jaffa.

Much of this I believe is done due to budget and time limits the TV show had compared to the film. This, and replacing the cool CGI Jaffa armour with a PEZ-dispenser budget version of it, suggest that they were running to a limited budget. A pity, since I reckon that an impressive enemy who you'll need subtitles for, is a hell of a lot better than a budget enemy with cheesy English lines.

Sherifu

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Oh, and dont forget, people were calling Atlantis Stargate: Voyager before they saw that show too...and were proven wrong...don't be too quick to judge Universe until you've finally seen it.:rolleyes:

They were just off by one show

Rawr

Lobelia Overhil wrote: »

I remember one of the cast of TNG wondering [in real life] why they never switched the things off when they were done talking, which is true! I always assumed that when, say, Picard taps his badge and wants to speak to Riker, everyone hears the call, but only Riker taps his communicator to reply. Technically speaking anyone could answer, but out of politeness they don't.

I think I remember from early TNG, the pilot in fact (Encounter at Farpoint), that the communicator was tapped on and then tapped off when finished. That then seemed to be abandoned.

As for everyone hearing all calls...I dunno. I always guessed that there was a slight delay on the reply. It could be that the computer would listen out for the name of the person you wanted, connect the call, and then repeated what you said 2 seconds ago, on their side.

Derek Coleman

I'm sure thats what the official Star Trek reply would be RAWr! That makes sense but of course we all know that every reply to a Hale would be preceeded with a brief pause to give time for the computer to repeat. "Picard to Engineering" and then.... pause.... "La Forge here!" Which just didnt happen.

I wonder why writers don't think about these things or just dont care enough to sort them out. I think its the little things that make a show go from good to brilliant.

Before anyone says I'm watching a show about Space travel and time travel and I should lighten up then don't. I understand that. I just wonder how they get away with it.

P.S. The funniest thing about Encounter at Farpoint was when Riker returned to the Enterprise and he was told to sit down and look at a monitor to catch up on what has been going on and the monitor was showing him the same footage we seen on our tele's. Ha.

Rawr

Derek Coleman wrote: »

I'm sure thats what the official Star Trek reply would be RAWr! That makes sense but of course we all know that every reply to a Hale would be preceeded with a brief pause to give time for the computer to repeat. "Picard to Engineering" and then.... pause.... "La Forge here!" Which just didnt happen.

Yea...I was thinking that. Given, in my example there would probably only be ~1 second delay for the computer to cop-on and link the call, and repeat the message (which itself only takes about a second or so to say). However, that much time is almost never given in the script. This could be down to time constraints on the writers...or just laziness...we may never know

Derek Coleman wrote: »

P.S. The funniest thing about Encounter at Farpoint was when Riker returned to the Enterprise and he was told to sit down and look at a monitor to catch up on what has been going on and the monitor was showing him the same footage we seen on our tele's. Ha.

Ahh yes...just before the vid I almost expected the computer to say:
'Last time on Star Trek: The Next Generation'
With Riker spouting 'WTF?' in confusion...:pac:

Mal-Adjusted

Derek Coleman wrote: »

I'm sure thats what the official Star Trek reply would be RAWr! That makes sense but of course we all know that every reply to a Hale would be preceeded with a brief pause to give time for the computer to repeat. "Picard to Engineering" and then.... pause.... "La Forge here!" Which just didnt happen.

I wonder why writers don't think about these things or just dont care enough to sort them out. I think its the little things that make a show go from good to brilliant.

Before anyone says I'm watching a show about Space travel and time travel and I should lighten up then don't. I understand that. I just wonder how they get away with it.

P.S. The funniest thing about Encounter at Farpoint was when Riker returned to the Enterprise and he was told to sit down and look at a monitor to catch up on what has been going on and the monitor was showing him the same footage we seen on our tele's. Ha.

that's like when they encounter an alien ship. the captain usually says "Hail them"...and about two seconds later, the comm officer says "No reply". come on ...TWO seconds!? i know it's pure fantisy, but even that's pushing it...

Lobelia Overhill

Ronny Mitchell wrote: »

So if you gate to a planet, you start speaking their language. What if instead of gating back to Earth you came in a ship. Would you then be speaking alien to everyone on Earth?

No, because you don't start speaking their language they can hear you speaking their language ... I did have it all worked out completely logically and explained it to an SF hater who agreed that [what I'd said] made sense ... I've forgotten the whole thing now and probably didn't 'explain' properly in my earlier post

Lobelia Overhill

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

um, yea....okay?

So it was only me who called SGA Stargate DS9...?

Mal-Adjusted

i guess so:D