Near death experience

midlandsmissus · 21-11-2008 12:46pm #1

I read this lovely near death experience today and it really struck a chord with me so thought i would share. Any thoughts/opinions would be much appreciated.

On November 18, 1973, Betty Eadie died from complications due to a partial-hysterectomy surgery. After being restored to life, Betty suffered with depression - so painful was her separation from the light of love she experienced during her moments of clinical death. Twenty years later, after sharing her story with family and friends, and with critically ill cancer patients, Betty was urged to write her experience so that a wider audience might share its beauty. In 1992, Embraced by the Light was published by a small press out of Carson City, Nevada. Embraced became a permanent fixture on the New York Times Bestsellers list, spending more than a year at number one.
Leaving Her Body
Betty Eadie leaves her body through her chest and floats above her bed. Three hooded monk-like beings appear whom she identifies to be her guardian angels. They tell her that they have been with her for "eternities" and that she died prematurely. Concerned about her family that she left behind, she travels in spirit to her home to see them; but she discovers that she cannot be seen by them. Betty then returns to her body where her guardian angels are waiting for her.
Entering the Light of Jesus Christ

[The following is in Betty's own words.]

I saw a pinpoint of light in the distance. The black mass around me began to take on more of the shape of a tunnel, and I felt myself traveling through it at an even greater speed, rushing toward the light. I was instinctively attracted to it, although again, I felt that others might not be. As I approached it, I noticed the figure of a man standing in it, with the light radiating all around him. As I got closer the light became brilliant - brilliant beyond any description, far more brilliant than the sun - and I knew that no earthly eyes in their natural state could look upon this light without being destroyed. Only spiritual eyes could endure it - and appreciate it. As I drew closer I began to stand upright.

I saw that the light immediately around him was golden, as if his whole body had a golden halo around it, and I could see that the golden halo burst out from around him and spread into a brilliant, magnificent whiteness that extended out for some distance. I felt his light blending into mine, literally, and I felt my light being drawn to his. It was as if there were two lamps in a room, both shining, their light merging together. It's hard to tell where one light ends and the other begins; they just become one light. Although his light was much brighter than my own, I was aware that my light, too, illuminated us. And as our lights merged, I felt as if I had stepped into his countenance, and I felt an utter explosion of love.

It was the most unconditional love I have ever felt, and as I saw his arms open to receive me I went to him and received his complete embrace and said over and over, "I'm home. I'm home, I'm finally home." I felt his enormous spirit and knew that I had always been a part of him, that in reality I had never been away from him.

And I knew that I was worthy to be with him, to embrace him. I knew that he was aware of all my sins and faults, but that they didn't matter right now. He just wanted to hold me and share his love with me, and I wanted to share mine with him.

There was no questioning who he was, I knew that he was my savior, and friend, and God. He was Jesus Christ, who had always loved me, even when I thought he hated me. He was life itself, love itself, and his love gave me a fullness of joy, even to overflowing. I knew that I had known him from the beginning, from long before my Earth life, because my spirit remembered him.

All my life I had feared him, and I now saw - I knew - that he was my choicest friend. Gently, he opened his arms and let me stand back far enough to look into his eyes, and he said, "Your death was premature, it is not yet your time." No words ever spoken have penetrated me more than these. Until then, I had felt no purpose in life; I had simply ambled along looking for love and goodness but never really knowing if my actions were right. Now, within his words, I felt a mission, a purpose; I didn't know what it was, but I knew that my life on Earth had not been meaningless.

It was not yet my time.

My time would come when my mission, my purpose, my meaning in this life was accomplished. I had a reason for existing on Earth. But even though I understood this, my spirit rebelled. Did this mean I would have to go back? I said to him, "No, I can never leave you now."

He understood what I meant, and his love and acceptance for me never wavered. My thoughts raced on: "Is this Jesus, God, the being I feared all my life? He is nothing like what I had thought. He is filled with love."
Learning From the Lord

Then questions began coming to my mind. I wanted to know why I had died as I had - not prematurely, but how my spirit had come to him before the resurrection. I was still laboring under the teachings and beliefs of my childhood. His light now began to fill my mind, and my questions were answered even before I fully asked them. His light was knowledge. It had power to fill me with all truth. As I gained confidence and let the light flow into me, my questions came faster than I thought possible, and they were just as quickly answered. And the answers were absolute and complete. In my fears, I had misinterpreted death, had expected something that was not so. The grave was never intended for the spirit - only for the body. I felt no judgment for having been mistaken. There was just a feeling that a simple, living truth had replaced my error.
I understood that he was the son of God, though he himself was also a God, and that he had chosen from before the creation of the world to be our savior. I understood, or rather, I remembered, his role as creator of the Earth. His mission was to come into the world to teach love. This knowledge was more like remembering. Things were coming back to me from long before my life on Earth, things that had been purposely blocked from me by a "veil" of forgetfulness at my birth. As more questions bubbled out of me, I became aware of his sense of humor. Almost laughing, he suggested that I slow down, that I could know all I desired.

But I wanted to know everything, from beginning to end. My curiosity had always been a torment to my parents and husband - and sometimes to me - but now it was a blessing, and I was thrilled with the freedom of learning. I was being taught by the master teacher! My comprehension was such that I could understand volumes in an instant. It was as if I could look at a book and comprehend it at a glance - as though I could just sit back while the book revealed itself to me in every detail, forward and backward, inside and out, every nuance and possible suggestion.

All in an instant. As I comprehended one thing, more questions and answers would come to me, all building on each other, and interacting as if all truth were intrinsically connected. The word "omniscient" had never been more meaningful to me. Knowledge permeated me. In a sense it became me, and I was amazed at my ability to comprehend the mysteries of the universe simply by reflecting on them.

I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion? The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual development and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the Earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel and never will have while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone to further knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel discontented with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill that void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way, these new opportunities to learn will be given.

Having received this knowledge, I knew that we have no right to criticize any church or religion in any way. They are all precious in his sight. Very special people with important missions have been placed in all countries, in all religions, in every station of life, that they might touch others. There is a fullness of the gospel, but most people will not attain it here. In order to grasp this truth, we need to listen to the Spirit and let go of our egos.

I wanted to learn the purpose of life on the Earth. Why are we here? As I basked in the love of Jesus Christ, I couldn't imagine why any spirit would voluntarily leave this wonderful paradise and all it offered - worlds to explore and ideas to create and knowledge to gain. Why would anyone want to come here? In answer, I remembered the creation of the Earth. I actually experienced it as if it were being reenacted before my eyes. This was important. Jesus wanted me to internalize this knowledge. He wanted me to know how I felt when the creation occurred. And the only way to do that was for me to view it again and feel what I had felt before.

All people as spirits in the pre-mortal world took part in the creation of the Earth. We were thrilled to be part of it. We were with God, and we knew that he created us, that we were his very own children. He was pleased with our development and was filled with absolute love for each one of us. Also, Jesus Christ was there. I understood, to my surprise, that Jesus was a separate being from God, with his own divine purpose, and I knew that God was our mutual Father. My Protestant upbringing had taught me that God the Father and Jesus Christ were one being. As we all assembled, the Father explained that coming to Earth for a time would further our spiritual growth. Each spirit who was to come to Earth assisted in planning the conditions on Earth, including the laws of mortality which would govern us. These included the laws of physics as we know them, the limitations of our bodies, and spiritual powers that we would be able to access. We assisted God in the development of plants and animal life that would be here. Everything was created of spirit matter before it was created physically - solar systems, suns, moons, stars, planets, life upon the planets, mountains, rivers, seas, etc. I saw this process, and then, to further understand it, I was told by the savior that the spirit creation could be compared to one of our photographic prints; the spirit creation would be like a sharp, brilliant print, and the Earth would be like its dark negative. This Earth is only a shadow of the beauty and glory of its spirit creation, but it is what we needed for our growth. It was important that I understand that we all assisted in creating our conditions here.

Many times the creative thoughts we have in this life are the result of unseen inspiration. Many of our important inventions and even technological developments were first created in the spirit by spirit prodigies. Then individuals on Earth received the inspiration to create these inventions here. I understood that there is a vital, dynamic link between the spirit world and mortality, and that we need the spirits on the other side for our progression. I also saw that they are very happy to assist us in any way they can.

I saw that in the pre-mortal world we knew about and even chose our missions in life. I understood that our stations in life are based upon the objectives of those missions. Through divine knowledge we knew what many of our tests and experiences would be, and we prepared accordingly. We bonded with others - family members and friends - to help us complete our missions. We needed their help. We came as volunteers, each eager to learn and experience all that God had created for us. I knew that each of us who made the decision to come here was here was a valiant spirit. Even the least developed among us here was strong and valiant there. We were given agency to act for ourselves here. Our own actions determine the course of our lives, and we can alter or redirect our lives at any time. I understood that this was crucial; God made the promise that he wouldn't intervene in our lives unless we asked him. And then through his omniscient knowledge he would help us attain our righteous desires. We were grateful for this ability to express our free will and to exercise its power. This would allow each of us to obtain great joy or to choose that which will bring us sadness. The choice would be ours through our decisions.

I was actually relieved to find that the Earth is not our natural home, that we did not originate here. I was gratified to see that the Earth is only a temporary place for our schooling and that sin is not our true nature. Spiritually, we are at various degrees of light - which is knowledge - and because of our divine, spiritual nature we are filled with the desire to do good.

Our earthly selves, however, are constantly in opposition to our spirits. I saw how weak the flesh is. But it is persistent. Although our spirit bodies are full of light, truth, and love, they must battle constantly to overcome the flesh, and this strengthens them. Those who are truly developed will find a perfect harmony between their flesh and spirits, a harmony that will bless them with peace and give them the ability to help others.

As we learn to abide by the laws of this creation, we learn how to use those laws to our own good. We learn how to live in harmony with the creative powers around us. God has given us individual talents, some more and some less according to our needs. As we use these talents, we learn how to work with and eventually understand, the laws and overcome the limitations of this life. By understanding these laws we are better able to serve those around us. Whatever we become here in mortality is meaningless unless it is done for the benefit of others. Our gifts and talents are given to us to help us serve. And in serving others we grow spiritually.

Above all, I was shown that love is supreme. I saw that truly without love we are nothing. We are here to help each other, to care for each other, to understand, forgive, and serve one another. We are here to have love for every person born on Earth. Their earthly form might be black, yellow, brown, handsome, ugly, thin, fat, wealthy, poor, intelligent, or ignorant, but we are not to judge by these appearances. Each spirit has the capacity to be filled with love and eternal energy. At the beginning, each possesses some degree of light and truth that can be more fully developed. We cannot measure these things. Only God knows the heart of man, and only God can judge perfectly. He knows our spirits; we see only temporary strengths and weaknesses. Because of our own limitations, we can seldom look into the heart of man.

I knew that anything we do to show love is worthwhile: a smile, a word of encouragement, a small act of sacrifice. We grow by these actions. Not all people are lovable, but when we find someone difficult for us to love, it is often because they remind us of something within ourselves that we don't like. I learned that we must love our enemies - let go of anger, hate, envy, bitterness, and the refusal to forgive. These things destroy the spirit. We will have to account for how we treat others.

Upon receiving the plan of creation, we sang in rejoicing and were filled with God's love. We were filled with joy as we saw the growth we would have here on Earth and the joyous bonds we would create with each other.

Then we watched as the Earth was created. We watched as our spirit brothers and sisters entered physical bodies for their turns upon the Earth, each experiencing the pains and joys that would help them progress. I distinctly remember watching the American pioneers crossing the continent and rejoicing as they endured their difficult tasks and completed their missions. I knew that only those who needed that experience were placed there. I saw the angels rejoicing for those who endured their trials and succeeded and grieving for those who failed. I saw that some failed because of their own weaknesses, and some failed because of the weaknesses of others. I sensed that many of us who were not there would not have been up to the tasks, that we would have made lousy pioneers, and we would have been the cause of more suffering for others. Likewise, some of the pioneers and people from other eras could not have endured the trials of today. We are where we need to be.

As all of these things came to me, I understood perfection of the plan. I saw that we all volunteered for our positions and stations in the world, and that each of us is receiving more help than we know. I saw the unconditional love of God, beyond any earthly love, radiating from him to all his children. I saw the angels standing near us, waiting to assist us, rejoicing in our accomplishments and joys. But above all, I saw Christ, the Creator and savior of the Earth, my friend, and the closest friend any of us can have. I seemed to melt with joy as I was held in his arms and comforted - home at last. I would give all in my power, all that I ever was, to be filled with that love again - to be embraced in the arms of his eternal light.
Escorted Through Heaven
[The rest of Betty's NDE will be summarized here.]
Two close friends appear to Betty whom she knew before she was born. They embrace and go on a tour of the spirit world. They enter a large room and see people creating heavenly garments using heavenly looms of some kind. In another room, she sees people working with a large computer-like machine. They enter another room similar to a library. It is a library of the mind. They go outdoors to a garden where beautiful mountains and rivers can be seen in the distance. It is a realm more beautiful than words can describe.
Beside a waterfall, Betty observes a magnificent rose and becomes one with it briefly. A group of people gather around her for a graduation party. Her guardian angels are there and they tell her she has died prematurely and must go back. Wanting to explore the universe, Betty is escorted by two light beings into the vastness of space. She travels to other worlds similar to Earth and with intelligent beings on them. She returns to the garden and is taken to a place where many spirits are preparing for life on Earth.
Betty's guides show her a drunken man lying on the sidewalk and ask her what she sees. Betty sees only a drunk wallowing in his own filth. Her guides show her who the man really is. They reveal to her the man is filled with light and love and is greatly admired in the spirit world for being a reminder to people of the need to help others.
Betty is shown the Earth as it appears in space. She is shown how prayers shoot like beacon lights from the Earth. She sees angels rushing around answering these prayers. Betty is observing all of this while in the garden.
She is led from the garden and into a large building before a "Council of Elders" consisting of 12 men and Jesus. Here, she is again told her death was premature and she must return to Earth. Jesus shows her life in review in the form of well-defined holograms. Jesus comforts her when she sees the negative aspects of her life and begins to judge herself too harshly.
After her life review, she is told her mission in life is not complete and must return. Betty steadfastly refuses. Jesus decides to reveal to her her mission in life with the condition that if she decides to return to Earth, the memory of her mission will be removed. She agrees to this and is shown her mission. Immediately, she agrees to go back. Suddenly, thousands of angels appear to sing her farewell. Betty finds herself back in the hospital where it all began. Her mission in life was completely removed from her memory.

Pompey Magnus · 21-11-2008 1:05pm

As I pointed out to Gareth37 last night, God doesn't allow people return from Heaven to Earth:

Jesus wrote:

"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

PDN · 21-11-2008 1:13pm

Charco, the Scripture you quoted simply says that, in a parable, Abraham is represented as rejecting a particular request that a specific person be permitted to go and warn some other specific people.

Nowhere does it say that God doesn't allow people to return from heaven to earth.

BTW, in the parable Lazarus was not in heaven - he was in Paradise.

Pompey Magnus · 21-11-2008 1:37pm

PDN wrote: »

Charco, the Scripture you quoted simply says that, in a parable, Abraham is represented as rejecting a particular request that a specific person be permitted to go and warn some other specific people.

Nowhere does it say that God doesn't allow people to return from heaven to earth.

BTW, in the parable Lazarus was not in heaven - he was in Paradise.

Oh come on, I think it is pretty clear what Jesus means. If you take the attitude to his parables that they refer to specific people in specific situations then they all become meaningless. That is not how his parables worked.

What do you think was the point of the parable if not that Jesus was pointing out that the dead will not return to Earth to provide evidence for God's existence so the unbelievers will believe? To me that seems to be the obvious intention of what Jesus was saying but you seem to have another interpretation.

Also how do you know that Lazarus was in Paradise, it isnt specified in the parable, I believe Jesus only directly mentioned Paradise once (when he told the criminal beside him on the cross that "today, you will be with me in Paradise"). Wherever Lazarus was it is clear from the parable that so too was Abraham, are you saying that Abraham is not in Heaven either?

By the way, off topic I know, but how come Christians believe Jesus descended into Hell after his death when he himself said that the criminal would join him that very day in Paradise? Where did the idea of Jesus going to Hell come from?

kelly1 · 21-11-2008 2:03pm

MM,

I haven't read the story but I think I read it before on near-death.com. I'd bet my life that that article is full of heresies/lies.

Can I give you a piece of advice?

I know you've recently started to believe in God and Jesus and that's great. I am very happy for you.

I should also warn you that the spiritual life is a mine-field. There are countless traps we can we can easily fall into for the devil is a cunning bas***d and he knows our weak points. So please be careful.

What I use to discern false teachings is whether something contradicts the bible or the teachings of the Catholic Church. We may need to discuss the later in more detail

If you like, I can go through the article and show you where it errs.

God bless,
Noel.

PDN · 21-11-2008 2:38pm

Charco wrote: »

Oh come on, I think it is pretty clear what Jesus means. If you take the attitude to his parables that they refer to specific people in specific situations then they all become meaningless. That is not how his parables worked.

No, you misunderstand me. The parables were stories with specific characters, not necessarily real historical people. A parable generally had one specific point, and it would be a mistake to press the minor details within a parable to try to find a doctrine. For example, the Parable of the Good Samaritan teaches that we should show kindness to those in need. It does not teach that 2 coins must always be the correct tariff to be charged by an inn or that a donkey is the only suitable mode of transport by which to carry a wounded man.

What do you think was the point of the parable if not that Jesus was pointing out that the dead will not return to Earth to provide evidence for God's existence so the unbelievers will believe? To me that seems to be the obvious intention of what Jesus was saying but you seem to have another interpretation

I don't think that interpretation would be obvious to anyone but yourself. If you read the parable in context you will see that it immediately follows teaching about not serving both God and money. The main point of the parable, as even kids in a Sunday school class grasp easily, is that if the rich ignore the plight of the poor and do nothing to help them then they are in danger of eternal judgement. That, rather than some abstract teaching about dead people coming back from heaven, would be relevant to both the wealthy Pharisees and the oppressed peasants who were listening to the parable.

Also how do you know that Lazarus was in Paradise, it isnt specified in the parable, I believe Jesus only directly mentioned Paradise once (when he told the criminal beside him on the cross that "today, you will be with me in Paradise"). Wherever Lazarus was it is clear from the parable that so too was Abraham, are you saying that Abraham is not in Heaven either?

The Jews had no concept of dead people going to heaven. They believed that all dead people went to Sheol (the Grave, or the Pit). This is translated into Greek as Hades and is sometimes mistranslated by the King James Version as 'hell'.

Sheol had two parts. The lower portion was populated by the wicked and was a pretty nasty place. The upper part, also known by the Jews as 'Paradise' or 'Abraham's bosom' was much nicer. The crowd listening to Jesus' parable would readily have understood that the rich man was in lower Sheol and the poor beggar was with Abraham in the upper bit. This would have annoyed the Pharisees no end, but cheered up the peasants enormously!

So, yes, I am saying that Abraham was not in heaven during the period of Christ's incarnation. The Christian teaching is that after Christ's death upon the Cross Jesus entered into Sheol/Hades and led the righteous out of Paradise and into the presence of God himself (ie heaven). The wicked were left in lower Sheol/Hades where they remain until the final judgement when Hades, and all those in it, will be cast into the Lake of Fire (ie hell) along with Satan and his demons.

Incidentally, Christian belief is not of heaven as an eternal destination for the righteous, but more a place of waiting for them until the general resurrection from the dead.

By the way, off topic I know, but how come Christians believe Jesus descended into Hell after his death when he himself said that the criminal would join him that very day in Paradise? Where did the idea of Jesus going to Hell come from?

You are, I guess, referring to the clause in the Apostles' Creed about Jesus ascending into hell. This would originally have said in Greek 'Hades' and refers to Jesus entering Paradise to lead the righteous out (including the thief on the Cross).

Unfortunately, one of the casualties of the Hellenisation of Christianity was that in popular imagination people adopted Greek ideas of heaven and hell that owed more to pagan philosophy than to the Bible. Therefore people began to misunderstand the Apostles Creed to mean that Jesus went to hell as meaning a place of torment and suffering.

The orthodox Christian belief is that Jesus suffered the pains of hell when He was on the Cross, so that we by faith need not suffer the pains of hell ourselves at the Last Judgement. However, it is neither part of biblical teaching, or Christian belief, that Jesus descended into the flames of hell in between His death and resurrection.

Interestingly there is a small subset of Evangelical/Pentecostal Christians, mostly within the Prosperity Gospel Movement (think of TV evangelists who are always asking for money & making extravagant claims of healing), who teach that Jesus actually did go to hell and was tormented after His death. This aberrant doctrine is rightly condemned by most other Christians.

Gareth37 · 21-11-2008 4:21pm

Charco wrote: »

As I pointed out to Gareth37 last night, God doesn't allow people return from Heaven to Earth:

You don't think God has the power to do this?

God can perform many many miracles and people making out that miracle cures are demonic are incorrect for these people normally turn 100% to God after receiving these cures.

Of course God does. Why would anyone tell lies about such a thing?

Quite frankly I cannot understand why people think these miracles come from anyone other than God.

Gareth37 · 21-11-2008 4:26pm

kelly1 wrote: »

MM,

I haven't read the story but I think I read it before on near-death.com. I'd bet my life that that article is full of heresies/lies.

Can I give you a piece of advice?

I know you've recently started to believe in God and Jesus and that's great. I am very happy for you.

I should also warn you that the spiritual life is a mine-field. There are countless traps we can we can easily fall into for the devil is a cunning bas***d and he knows our weak points. So please be careful.

What I use to discern false teachings is whether something contradicts the bible or the teachings of the Catholic Church. We may need to discuss the later in more detail

If you like, I can go through the article and show you where it errs.

God bless,
Noel.

I don't think the devil has this power to be honest unless the demon is completely entralled in the person.

When it comes to excorcisms etc the Catholic Church has led the way. In many cases other churches have had to call in Catholic Church priests to deal with demons when they could not do anything themselves. As far as I know the Catholic Church keeps a very open mind when discussing the supernatural. Its very easy to decipher between God and Evil by having the Holy Spirit so lets not be too hasty to deny these things.

So on miracle healings from Catholic priests, what do you make of these?

kelly1 · 21-11-2008 7:44pm

Gareth37 wrote: »

I don't think the devil has this power to be honest unless the demon is completely entralled in the person.

I probably wasn't clear enough or too brief. The devil certainly does have the power to tempt us by putting ideas in our minds. He cannot however force us to do anything and no temptation is ever irresistible.

If you read the lives of the saints, you will see lots of discussions about how the devil can tempt us in order to cause us to fall. He appeals to our pride, envy, anger etc, anywhere there's a weak point to cause us to sin. He can never coerce us into anything but only make suggestions.

So for instance, the devil might suggest to us that we don't need to confess our sins to a priest or that all religions are equal in the eyes of God. In both of these cases, the devil knows that our pride would be inclined to turn us away from the authority of the Church.

Similarly in the case of the Bayside "apparitions", these so-called messsages from heaven encourage people to question the authority of the Church and even to rebel. Any apparition which suggests rebellion against the Church cannot be of God. But I digress

Getting back to my original point, a person who has discovered God can be very easily mislead by the devils lies and snares and they're not aware of these traps, disaster can result.

Gareth37 wrote: »

Its very easy to decipher between God and Evil by having the Holy Spirit so lets not be too hasty to deny these things.

Do you think the Holy Spirit guarantees that we won't fall into error? People become seduced by false teachings all the time!

Gareth37 wrote: »

So on miracle healings from Catholic priests, what do you make of these?

Let's keep this on topic.

Stu-b-one · 21-11-2008 8:05pm

so the bright light was nothing to do with being on an operating table and the wonderful feelings are not the brain releasing anything into the system to help the body shutdown

Stu-b-one · 21-11-2008 8:06pm

and the story was not influenced by hearing the same story from just about anyone who nearly died on the operating table?

Stu-b-one · 21-11-2008 8:07pm

gimme sometimi scientific people not some fairy tale bible answer please

kelly1 · 21-11-2008 8:31pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I read this lovely near death experience today and it really struck a chord with me so thought i would share. Any thoughts/opinions would be much appreciated.

MM, it sounds beautiful but I assure you, this apple is laced with poison!

Betty Eadie leaves her body through her chest and floats above her bed. Three hooded monk-like beings appear whom she identifies to be her guardian angels. They tell her that they have been with her for "eternities" and that she died prematurely.

Error No. 1. Afaik, we only have 1 guardian angel and they couldn't have been with her for eternities because she her soul was created by God at the time of her conception.

It was the most unconditional love I have ever felt, and as I saw his arms open to receive me I went to him and received his complete embrace and said over and over, "I'm home. I'm home, I'm finally home." I felt his enormous spirit and knew that I had always been a part of him, that in reality I had never been away from him.

Nobody is part of Jesus/God. We are separate beings.

And I knew that I was worthy to be with him, to embrace him.
I knew that he was aware of all my sins and faults, but that they didn't matter right now.

Worthy without purification? Very dubious. Since when to sins not matter?

I knew that I had known him from the beginning, from long before my Earth life, because my spirit remembered him.

Rubbish!

I understood that he was the son of God, though he himself was also a God,

A God? There's more than one??

I understood, or rather, I remembered, his role as creator of the Earth.

???

His mission was to come into the world to teach love.

What about His coming to die on the cross and redeem us?

This knowledge was more like remembering. Things were coming back to me from long before my life on Earth, things that had been purposely blocked from me by a "veil" of forgetfulness at my birth.

All the hall-marks of new-age!

I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion? The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual development and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the Earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel and never will have while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone to further knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel discontented with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill that void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way, these new opportunities to learn will be given.

Having received this knowledge, I knew that we have no right to criticize any church or religion in any way. They are all precious in his sight. Very special people with important missions have been placed in all countries, in all religions, in every station of life, that they might touch others. There is a fullness of the gospel, but most people will not attain it here. In order to grasp this truth, we need to listen to the Spirit and let go of our egos.

Complete rubbish. All religions are not equal and God is not indifferent to lies and error! He is a God of Truth.

I wanted to learn the purpose of life on the Earth. Why are we here? As I basked in the love of Jesus Christ, I couldn't imagine why any spirit would voluntarily leave this wonderful paradise and all it offered - worlds to explore and ideas to create and knowledge to gain. Why would anyone want to come here? In answer, I remembered the creation of the Earth. I actually experienced it as if it were being reenacted before my eyes. This was important. Jesus wanted me to internalize this knowledge. He wanted me to know how I felt when the creation occurred. And the only way to do that was for me to view it again and feel what I had felt before.

All people as spirits in the pre-mortal world took part in the creation of the Earth. We were thrilled to be part of it. We were with God, and we knew that he created us, that we were his very own children. He was pleased with our development and was filled with absolute love for each one of us. Also, Jesus Christ was there.

More nonsense. No human being or angel existed before creation. No creature by definition has always existed. And of course Jesus was there! He created the universe!

I understood, to my surprise, that Jesus was a separate being from God, with his own divine purpose, and I knew that God was our mutual Father. My Protestant upbringing had taught me that God the Father and Jesus Christ were one being.

Wrong again. Jesus is God, the second Person of the Holy Trinity. There is only one God.

We assisted God in the development of plants and animal life that would be here. Everything was created of spirit matter before it was created physically - solar systems, suns, moons, stars, planets, life upon the planets, mountains, rivers, seas, etc.

We did even exist when the world was created! Even if we did exist, God wouldn't need our assistance!

In another room, she sees people working with a large computer-like machine.

What a joke!

Despite my criticisms, there a good deal of truth in this story e.g. the parts about loving our neighbour. But that's the way the devil works. He happy to present us with 99% truth and 1% error because this 1% can be enough to lead us astray.

God bless,
Noel.

CerebralCortex · 21-11-2008 8:47pm

Thank you Noel for protecting me from deception I was so convinced she had met the "A God". Phew! That Satan is such an asshole.
Excelsior!!!

PDN · 22-11-2008 12:33am

Stu-b-one wrote: »

gimme sometimi scientific people not some fairy tale bible answer please

If you don't want a Bible answer then probably better not to ask questions in the Christianity forum.

Stu-b-one · 22-11-2008 12:41am

surely christians should be able to prove their points outside the bible though how else can you convince a non believer like me?

Pompey Magnus · 22-11-2008 1:29am

Stu-b-one wrote: »

surely christians should be able to prove their points outside the bible though

I take it you aren't particularly familiar with how religion works? If religions had to provide "proof" to back up their claims then there would be no such thing as religion.

djeddy · 22-11-2008 2:09am

Anyone see the film saved by the light? about a guy who had a near death
experience,

I think he met beings of light who told him what was going to happen in the future etc,

www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/aug2/dannion.htm - 24k

condra · 22-11-2008 3:59am

I have on my lap a copy of "Embraced By The Light" by Betty J Eadie. - the book that was written 20 years after the event.

A whole new religion (cult) could be created based on the vast number of assertions book, where she borrows chunks of Christianity, Mormonism (I sh*t you not), Paganism and Buddhism, and mixes in some new age spiritual crap, moistens with a dash of Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol, a splash of Jim Hensons Labyrinth, seasons with absurd assumptions, and finishes with a cherry of pseudoscience on top.

For any skeptic (religious or not) this book is pure comedy gold. Open it on any page and you will strike bulls**t bullsye.

Here are some choice cuts of her dribbling nonsence:

On "auras":

Our auras, or countenances, display the feelings and emotions of our souls. God sees them, angels see them, and Satan sees them. Even very sensitive people here can see them. We can protect ourselves by controlling our thoughts.

On heavenly spirits, eternal life and reincarnation:

I saw some of them hovering over people in mortality. I saw one male spirit trying to get a mortal man and a woman together on earth - his future parents. He was playing cupid and was having a very difficult time.

More on heavenly spirits, eternal life and reincarnation:

If you could see yourself before you were born, you would be amazed at your intelligence and glory. Birth is a sleep and a forgetting.

On purposes for living: (this allegedly happened while she was given a sort of guided tour of life, the universe, and everything, by three wise monks, who were appearantly in their 70s)

One of my guides said, "What do you see?"
"Why, a drunken bum lying in his wallow" I said, not understanding why I had to see this. My guides became excited. They said, "Now we will show you who he really is".
His spirit was revealed to me, and I saw a magnificant man, full of light...
.....his purpose was to be a reminder to him [his eternal spiritual friend, who didn't know him on Earth] of the needs of others..... The drunk had sacrificed his time on earth for the benefit of another.

On prayer:

The heavens scrolled back again, [this happens every couple of pages] and I saw the sphere of earth rotating in space. I saw many lights shooting up from earth like beacons....
I was told that these beams of power were the prayers of people on earth.

On The Holy Spirit
.. Oops, she doesn't mention The Holy Spirit. She does however say:

My protestant upbringing had thought me that God the Father and Christ were one being.

On being aliens?

I was actually relieved to find that the earth is not our natural home, that we did not originate here. I was gratified to see that the earth is only a temporary place for our schooling...

About being shown the history of Earth in a matter of minutes:

Then we watched as the earth was created.... I distinctly remember watching the American pioneers crossing the continent and rejoycing as they endured their difficult tasks and completed their missions

On healing:

All healing takes place from within. Our spirits heal our body. A doctors sure hands may perform surgery, and medicine may provide ideal circumstances for health, but it is the spirit that effects the healing.

Near death experience

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