What is the best software for making electronic/trance?

BaRcOe

What is the best software for making electronic/trance?

I wanna make my own beats? Something like Fruity Loops?

DarkJager

What level would you be at? If you are just starting, I'd recommend one of the E-Jay software packages. Its fairly easy to create tunes in them (sort of like building lego blocks.

BaRcOe

DarkJager wrote: »

What level would you be at? If you are just starting, I'd recommend one of the E-Jay software packages. Its fairly easy to create tunes in them (sort of like building lego blocks.

Ye just beginning, but I have a good ear for music and I have experience with recording, editing, mixing..etc

will I have to buy e-jay/ download it off a torrent or is it free to download from somewhere?

DarkJager

I got a few of them in Game (of all places ) about a year or 2 ago, though I haven't seen them there since. Ejay have a store @ www.ejay.com that might be of use to you. I'm sure there would also be loads on Ebay.

EDIT: They also have downloadable trial versions on the site. Might be worth a try first to help you decide which version to get?

6stringmaniac

Fruityloops is good enough for trance and is easy to use

jiltloop

I'd say go for fruity loops or reason, I wouldn't give ejay the time of day to be honest if you're anyway serious about it.

seannash

an sequencer should be good enough to make trance tracks.
doesnt matter how easy the particular programme is,theres alot that goes into making a good track,so you better off going for the best software,not the easiest.if you want easy get ableton but theres so much more than just coming up with melodys and basslines and beats to it.so for that reason get a sequencer that offers high quality plugins like good compressor,goood reverb,delays,good inbuilt synths etc

BaRcOe

jiltloop wrote: »

I'd say go for fruity loops or reason, I wouldn't give ejay the time of day to be honest if you're anyway serious about it.

Are you saying dont go to the effort in learning how to use Ejay cuz its not worth it?

seannash

BaRcOe wrote: »

Are you saying dont go to the effort in learning how to use Ejay cuz its not worth it?

anything you learn as regards music production isnt a waste of time but i think hes saying your better off spending your time learning the other(more pro,for want of a better word) apps.
i agree with him,except id opt for cubase

jiltloop

Yes definately. Ejay as far as I can see is quite limiting and not as creative as other more professional programs. As regards cubase, I think you'd need a certain level of knowledge to get to grips with this program. I think if you are a beginner you should get a copy of computer music magazine (actually if you're quick you might get a copy of this month's special 'how to make music' for beginners) where you will get a free disc with all the software you need to get you started. It will include reaper which I find alot easier to use than cubase, plus a load of plugins and the likes. Then after you've mastered all that you might want to go and invest in some software which you'll have a better understanding of.

BaRcOe wrote: »

Are you saying dont go to the effort in learning how to use Ejay cuz its not worth it?

seannash

jiltloop wrote: »

Yes definately. Ejay as far as I can see is quite limiting and not as creative as other more professional programs. As regards cubase, I think you'd need a certain level of knowledge to get to grips with this program. I think if you are a beginner you should get a copy of computer music magazine (actually if you're quick you might get a copy of this month's special 'how to make music' for beginners) where you will get a free disc with all the software you need to get you started. It will include reaper which I find alot easier to use than cubase, plus a load of plugins and the likes. Then after you've mastered all that you might want to go and invest in some software which you'll have a better understanding of.

i just always think its better to invest in something for the long term.i mean he could go out and get fruity loops or ejay and be making tracks in months but he might then want to move to something like cubase,so hes after wasting money on a starter programme and now has to learn a new programme.
horses for courses,oh and maybe fruity loops and ejay isnt a fair comparison ha ha

jiltloop

That's why I'm saying he should get computer music magazine, that gives you a load of programs for free so you don't have to make any investment unless you want to move onto other more pro porgrams. They give good tutorials too on how to get started with the programs. They give away reaper, audacity, vst effects and instruments and some loop player with time stretching capabilties that I can't remember the name of. So there you get your sequencer, audio editor, loop player and effects and instruments all in one go.

jiltloop

P.S I'm not a rep for computer music magazine by the way :pac:

bedbugs

+1 for CM magazine. Really brilliant suite of software with every edition. Everything you need to get started.

frobisher

Hopefully forum regular Neuromancer will be along to answer this. If not you could PM him a link to this thread. Defo his area of expertise.

seannash

just to get back on point a bit.most producers will use 3rd party synths like native instruments,arturia,gforce etc to make the sounds.
i agree if hes new he should check out the cm magazine

jimi_t

There's only ever going to be one reply from me anyway

Ableton Live

People will argue, citing cubase/logic or even fruity loops/reaper on the cheap/free end of the spectrum. If you're serious about making dance music then why not use the industry standard creation/performance platform.

Here's someone recreating a recent enough dance tune - 'Yeah Yeah' by Bodyrox - just using the inbuilt instruments and effects that come with Ableton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZUGTPOJ14Y

seannash

jimi_t wrote: »

There's only ever going to be one reply from me anyway

Ableton Live

People will argue, citing cubase/logic or even fruity loops/reaper on the cheap/free end of the spectrum. If you're serious about making dance music then why not use the industry standard creation/performance platform.

Here's someone recreating a recent enough dance tune - 'Yeah Yeah' by Bodyrox - just using the inbuilt instruments and effects that come with Ableton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZUGTPOJ14Y

hate to tell you but its far from the industry standard.logic,protools are far more popular.
the bodyrox sound can be recreated on most synths.i own ableton and the synths that come with it(actually you have to pay for ableton suite so they do cost extra)
i hate the inbuilt synths,theres far better out there.i made the switch to logic from ableton and have never looked back.its only when you move form it that you realise how restricted it is.there are functions i miss but i just rewire it into logic for that but im finding myself going to it less the more i use logic:D:D

seannash

oh and d ramirez who did the remix of the bodyrox tune that hes recreating uses logic

jimi_t

Industry standard creation/performance platform - a very different fish to the industry standard DAW. Practically anyone who's doing a 'live' set is using ableton; no need to be faceitious.

As for the inbuilt synths/ramirez comment, I was only giving the video as an example of the intuitive workflow of ableton; you can get the bones of a track down and looping in under 5 minutes and then tweak to your hearts delight. You can do that in Logic too of course (with practice), but I find and will always maintain that the learning curve is much steeper and

1) It ties you to OS X which can be an absolute **** in terms of driver support for a lot of cheaper kit (BCA/BCD comes to mind)
2) It restricts you in terms of the cheaper end of VST/VSTi's
3) Mac Hardware is more expensive (but stabler)

which are all massive considerations to be taking into account if you're just starting off.

The summing busses and audio engine are getting tighter and tighter with every release - of course if you were on a label you wouldn't be mixing down your stems in it, but its more than adequate for doing demos.

seannash

jimi_t wrote: »

Industry standard creation/performance platform - a very different fish to the industry standard DAW. Practically anyone who's doing a 'live' set is using ableton; no need to be faceitious.

As for the inbuilt synths/ramirez comment, I was only giving the video as an example of the intuitive workflow of ableton; you can get the bones of a track down and looping in under 5 minutes and then tweak to your hearts delight. You can do that in Logic too of course (with practice), but I find and will always maintain that the learning curve is much steeper and

1) It ties you to OS X which can be an absolute **** in terms of driver support for a lot of cheaper kit (BCA/BCD comes to mind)
2) It restricts you in terms of the cheaper end of VST/VSTi's
3) Mac Hardware is more expensive (but stabler)

which are all massive considerations to be taking into account if you're just starting off.

The summing busses and audio engine are getting tighter and tighter with every release - of course if you were on a label you wouldn't be mixing down your stems in it, but its more than adequate for doing demos.

no i agree its the standard for live performance but hes not asking that.
and as for creation,i dont think thats a valid point.the only thing creative about ableton is the ability to loop things up quickly.most people get to a point where they dont use loops anymore and on this level creating a loop in logic is just as quick as doing it in live.
im a bit lost at the points you raised about hardware being more expensive(the computers im guessing)
we could list the pros and cons of windows and mac but he only asking about a daw for making tracks.if i was pc id go cubase.
nowadays you need something that is capable of producing professional sounding tracks not demos.
if your sending out tracks to a label it has to be releaseable quality as is.
just on a personal level i have not found making tracks in live one bit quicker to making them in logic.the basic arrangement page is the same across most daws and if your using session to "sketch"out ideas as some people say its no quicker than just flipping to arrangenment and doing the work there.
im not saying ableton isnt capable im just saying it wouldnt be my first choice.its definitely better than ejay and you can get some great results from it,i just think theres better options out there:D

BaRcOe

Ok so get ableton then?
Ive had EJay Dance 7 since yesterday, erh, its ok, bit hard to creat your own synths.
Hows ableton for this?

How big is ableton to download? Around a gig like EJay?

Can I create my own dance track from scratch?

seannash

BaRcOe wrote: »

Ok so get ableton then?
Ive had EJay Dance 7 since yesterday, erh, its ok, bit hard to creat your own synths.
Hows ableton for this?

How big is ableton to download? Around a gig like EJay?

Can I create my own dance track from scratch?

every professional programme lets you create your own tracks from scratch,this is what there made to do.
get the cm mag because you seem very unsure of what exactly it entails.try out reaper,itll let you make your own tracks.it has the synths and effects you need.or just pick any professinal daw,cubase,ableton,pro tools whatever.they will all let you make tracks.

jtsuited

jimi_t wrote: »

If you're serious about making dance music then why not use the industry standard creation/performance platform.

Because it absolutely sucks balls when it comes to production. and I speak as someone who has used many DAW's including Ableton.

I do use it for live sets, and nothing comes close to the greatness of ableton as a live performance application. But as a DAW it is rubbish.

The marketing hype about being a mega-super-brilliant DAW is pretty old at this stage.

And the term 'industry-standard' is a very vague one and one that is open to abuse from many companies.

Protools used to be the 'industry standard' for everything, yet Logic seems to be more popular in electronic music circles. But nobody calls it the 'industry-standard'.
If you want to look at things in those terms, I am willing to bet that the vast majority of the top 100 tracks on beatport right now were made in Logic.

DamagedTrax

exactly. ableton sucks serious donkey balls for production. im constantly having people out here to mix down on pro-tools or nuendo because they cant get it right in ableton.

as was said earlier the loop manipulation is all well and good but most of us progress beyond slapping a few loops down and adding a filter.

for live sets it's invaluable though.

empirix

i tried ableton and didnt like it at all, love Protools and use reason rewired into it, the sound engine is outstanding, i dont think anything touches it, you have to put a bit more work into it for creating electronica though compared to more "user friendly" tools aimed at that market(reason/logic), on another not softsynths are muck(the majority) buy a good hardware synth, well worth it, i use a radias and an evolver - no softsyth comes near although the z3ta is wicked - for a softsyth!

seannash

empirix wrote: »

i tried ableton and didnt like it at all, love Protools and use reason rewired into it, the sound engine is outstanding, i dont think anything touches it, you have to put a bit more work into it for creating electronica though compared to more "user friendly" tools aimed at that market(reason/logic), on another not softsynths are muck(the majority) buy a good hardware synth, well worth it, i use a radias and an evolver - no softsyth comes near although the z3ta is wicked - for a softsyth!

try minimonsta,imposocar,pro 53 and for leads predator.softsynths are so close to the hardware versions its virtually impossible to tell and ive heard there easier to sit in a mix.
i understand the analogue side of it but there so close its a better and cheaper option to go for softsynths.
the arturia ones are pretty good,jupiter is meant to be nice.
most dance tracks these days use softsynths

jtsuited

jimi_t wrote: »

1) It ties you to OS X which can be an absolute **** in terms of driver support for a lot of cheaper kit (BCA/BCD comes to mind)
.

that's the most wrong thing I've ever seen written here. One of the main benefits of OSX is CoreAudio which also handles any external midi perfectly without any installation of drivers needed.

I've had a bunch of midi gear over the years and never once had to install one driver.

empirix

seannash wrote: »

try minimonsta,imposocar,pro 53 and for leads predator.softsynths are so close to the hardware versions its virtually impossible to tell and ive heard there easier to sit in a mix.
i understand the analogue side of it but there so close its a better and cheaper option to go for softsynths.
the arturia ones are pretty good,jupiter is meant to be nice.
most dance tracks these days use softsynths

i have the arturia moog softsynth, its very good but it defintely doesnt resemble the real thing, pro53 i also have this and this defintely doesnt come near the real thing! theres just something missing, its hard to explain really, plus with hardware synths you get more into it and feel more creative. i disagree with most dsance tunes are made with softsyths, maybe for one off one hit wonders use them but stallwarts like vibert, clarke,afx, orb all use hardware synths, afx used softsynths in the 90's btu has gone back to the hardware synths - so the word is going anyway!

seannash

empirix wrote: »

i have the arturia moog softsynth, its very good but it defintely doesnt resemble the real thing, pro53 i also have this and this defintely doesnt come near the real thing! theres just something missing, its hard to explain really, plus with hardware synths you get more into it and feel more creative. i disagree with most dsance tunes are made with softsyths, maybe for one off one hit wonders use them but stallwarts like vibert, clarke,afx, orb all use hardware synths, afx used softsynths in the 90's btu has gone back to the hardware synths - so the word is going anyway!

hope you dont take this the wrong way but most of the people you listed arent prolific producers these days.im pretty certain most dance tracks these days are done one softsynths.check out dome of the in the studio videos on google.
angello,ian carey,d ramirez in fact most producers will be using them these days.

af_thefragile

A little too late probably but i'ld say Reason has it all to get started making some serious music...
Its straightforward, easy to use and has a good selection of instruments, effects n synths you can work your skills on.

jimi_t

jtsuited wrote: »

that's the most wrong thing I've ever seen written here. One of the main benefits of OSX is CoreAudio which also handles any external midi perfectly without any installation of drivers needed.

I've had a bunch of midi gear over the years and never once had to install one driver.

BCR uses custom drivers to interpret and reroute back the CC's to the corresponding LEDs surrounding each knob; these didn't work on the mac but appear to be rectified. BCA/BCD I was referring to the Audio drivers which were (not sure if they still are) a massive problem regardless of core audio.

Then you also get into the limited range of indie/free Mac VST/VSTis compared with Windows and is there not also some issue with the new Intel macs not running a lot of legacy music stuff due to how it was compiled? I'm not massively au fait with it all since I gave up and switched to PC 5 years ago.

jtsuited wrote:

Because it absolutely sucks balls when it comes to production. and I speak as someone who has used many DAW's including Ableton.

Production and creation are two very different things. I find the interface is the most intuitive and clean of any DAW and that, as a result, workflow is better. Horses for courses obviously, you wouldn't mix in it.

DamagedTrax wrote:

as was said earlier the loop manipulation is all well and good but most of us progress beyond slapping a few loops down and adding a filter.

I'll disregard the obvious provocation - by the very nature of its (generally) 4/4, 16 bar structure, loop syncing in electronic music is of the utmost importance and I reckon ableton is the best. If you think otherwise fair enough, but don't start getting shirty.

seannash

what makes ableton more creative than any other daw.im presuming we all make our own basslines,leadlines and drums,so how is ableton better at creating than any other.take away its quick looping of samples and its the same as any other daw.im not saying its worse im juat saying its no different.
like i said take out the looping and your left with a daw thats not good enough to mix down in and why the hell would you want that.
mac aside,theres better pc apps out there that will let you mix down in them,offer more features,effects and instruments and lets face it look better too(abletons look is so bland and sterile)
the whole logic driver issue is a bit silly too as most people wont use a bcr to make tracks with,theyll more than likely use a midi keyboard.
as for freeware,well yes theres more out there for pc but that doesnt necessarily mean its any good.and if the freeware is good it normally has got an AU version.

all that being said ,what the hell did the op choose:D

DamagedTrax

I'll disregard the obvious provocation - by the very nature of its (generally) 4/4, 16 bar structure, loop syncing in electronic music is of the utmost importance and I reckon ableton is the best. If you think otherwise fair enough, but don't start getting shirty.

no provocation at all there buddy. the comment was not aimed at you directly just a general throaway remark based on a lot of producers that ive seen using ableton.

you dont need to tell me the importance of syncing loops either. i reckon a few years of releasing techno records has made me pretty much aware of that.

and to be perfectly honest with you abletons timestretch isnt really that impressive anymore. it was maybe 5 years ago but its starting to sound a little outdated compared to some of the newer versions (sony's new elastique or digi's elastic audio engine) for example).
i'd much rather use cubase "musical mode" but unfortunatly a lot of people using cubase arent even aware that there are differant timestretch algorhythims and tend to just use the standard one thats switched on in prefs (which sounds like gash).

jimi_t

seannash wrote: »

what makes ableton more creative than any other daw...take out the looping and your left with a daw thats not good enough to mix down in and why the hell would you want that...(abletons look is so bland and sterile)...the whole logic driver issue is a bit silly too as most people wont use a bcr to make tracks with,theyll more than likely use a midi keyboard.

I personally find it better, more intuitive, cleaner with a far better learning curve - a recommendations just that.

Dismissing the driver issues because you don't encounter them isn't kosher either - its a valid concern when you're starting and was the deciding factor in me choosing a PC laptop over an x86 Macbook.

as for freeware,well yes theres more out there for pc but that doesnt necessarily mean its any good.and if the freeware is good it normally has got an AU version.

Of course not, just making the point that there's far far less out for the Mac then the PC.

empirix

seannash wrote: »

hope you dont take this the wrong way but most of the people you listed arent prolific producers these days.im pretty certain most dance tracks these days are done one softsynths.check out dome of the in the studio videos on google.
angello,ian carey,d ramirez in fact most producers will be using them these days.

no offence taken at all sir - but as for not being prolific producers, Afx released the analords limited edition about 2 years agorun,nearly 60 tunes (including b sides), produced to perfection i might add, if thats not prolific then......:P as for angello, carey and co i'm not surprised they use softsynths - there bleedin muck bud! no in seriousness i do use softsynths but just here and there, hardware synths all the way, i hope to have some tracks done by xmas(that im please with)

seannash

empirix wrote: »

no offence taken at all sir - but as for not being prolific producers, Afx released the analords limited edition about 2 years agorun,nearly 60 tunes (including b sides), produced to perfection i might add, if thats not prolific then......:P as for angello, carey and co i'm not surprised they use softsynths - there bleedin muck bud! no in seriousness i do use softsynths but just here and there, hardware synths all the way, i hope to have some tracks done by xmas(that im please with)

hmm okay maybe i was being too polite.
your totally wrong with that statement man.everyone is using vsts these days.
the people listed were off the top of my head and while you might not like there productions,you cant deny there selling a ****y load of tracks.
to say that pros only use hardware synths is akin to dj saying only pros use vinyl.like i said even if you dont like there productions those artists are still pros.
times have changed,the major players in the game now(not any of the people you listed)are adapting and vsts are part an parcel with modern dance music.
i honestly cant imagine that someone is so behind the times that they think vsts arent the mainstay of dance music.i know alot of producers,many who make there living from it and there all using vsts and im pretty sure,even without hearing your stuff,there productions are alot better than your hardware versions.
i suppose youll be telling m,e i should get a drummer in to record my kicks next:D:D

seannash

oh and please dont tell me d ramirez productions arent good.whether you like his tracks you cant deny there not well made.

ICN

jimi_t wrote: »

.. AU fait..

:pac:

jimi_t

ICN wrote: »

:pac:

The fact that I got that just goes to show how doomed I am...

empirix

seannash wrote: »

hmm okay maybe i was being too polite.
your totally wrong with that statement man.everyone is using vsts these days.
the people listed were off the top of my head and while you might not like there productions,you cant deny there selling a ****y load of tracks.
to say that pros only use hardware synths is akin to dj saying only pros use vinyl.like i said even if you dont like there productions those artists are still pros.
times have changed,the major players in the game now(not any of the people you listed)are adapting and vsts are part an parcel with modern dance music.
i honestly cant imagine that someone is so behind the times that they think vsts arent the mainstay of dance music.i know alot of producers,many who make there living from it and there all using vsts and im pretty sure,even without hearing your stuff,there productions are alot better than your hardware versions.
i suppose youll be telling m,e i should get a drummer in to record my kicks next:D:D

wowa calm down bud!!! i like constructive arguments! pick any vst you like and put it up against my Radias - no competition!!!! and if your saying Aphex twin is not a major player then your just crazy, he talks a lot of sh*te but his work will be in the record shops long after your list of producers and thats a fact. i am looking forward to blowing you away with my beats:o

i myself use a jomox 888 for beats and i would find it hard for any software to come near it although i am not up on this kinda software but would welcome any recommendations!:)

DamagedTrax

empirix wrote: »

i myself use a jomox 888 for beats and i would find it hard for any software to come near it although i am not up on this kinda software but would welcome any recommendations!:)

very hard to compare as the jomax has a perticular sound but the d16 emulations are as close to the old roland boxes that you can get without actually owning one. IMO they even blow the machine drum out of the water.

empirix

DamagedTrax wrote: »

very hard to compare as the jomax has a perticular sound but the d16 emulations are as close to the old roland boxes that you can get without actually owning one. IMO they even blow the machine drum out of the water.

yes it blew my pockets out as well but...i love it, 808 bass all the way!very very close. was trying to buy a 2nd hand machine drum there last week, seem very good, never had my hands on one!

DamagedTrax

they are lovely but i find them a little too nice for what i make.. although rorystjohn and fran hartnett are both using one to pretty devastating effect!

seannash

empirix wrote: »

wowa calm down bud!!! i like constructive arguments! pick any vst you like and put it up against my Radias - no competition!!!! and if your saying Aphex twin is not a major player then your just crazy, he talks a lot of sh*te but his work will be in the record shops long after your list of producers and thats a fact. i am looking forward to blowing you away with my beats:o

i myself use a jomox 888 for beats and i would find it hard for any software to come near it although i am not up on this kinda software but would welcome any recommendations!:)

well im more talking about your quote that pros dont use softsynths.thats what really baffles me.im not gonna argue that hardware synths sound a ittle better than sotfynths but to say they sound like **** and arent used by pros just doesnt hold any water.
like i said you cant say them guys arent pros that i mentioned.of course aphex twin will be in shops long after most other artists but that doesnt really add to the argument,it just means hes made quality albums.
and please do blow me away with your beats,ill be the first to admit im no pro but i know enough to know that vsts are the dominating force in sound design these days and not hardware synths.like i said i know people who make there living from producing house music and are pretty successful with it too,is this not what constitutes a pro?even dj pierre (whos label im signed with)ditched his hardware setup to go with an all digital setup,and he created acid house
and theres no point in me posting up a rival to your jomox 888 coz youll just say it doesnt come close,even though it might.
but the beats are irrelevent as most producers use samples for there beats(ill bet youll argue that too).
so what would sound better,an actual wav recording of a kick drum or your hardware emanulation,or for the most part there just recordings of boxes like your jomox so its the exact same.
at the end of the day if hardware is working for you cool,but just dont come out with crazy statements like pros dont use softsynths!!!:D:D
oh i know neurojazz on here uses softsynths(he just bought omnisphere)and hes the guy behind binary finary.i think his pro status might be well earned:D

DamagedTrax

just to add to this.. bar the odd time when ive had a lend of a 303, every rhythm technologies release has been done on softsynths or samples of hardware.