Work Visa Question

Seifer

Can anyone tell me why employers are reluctant to higher someone that they would need to obtain a work permit for?
It is just because they have to do some extra paperwork or does it cost them something too?
The person in question has completed their undergraduate degree here and is currently studying a masters however in our rigid, flawed system, years studying here don't count towards citizenship years.

AARRRGH

1. The HR person may not know what to do.
2. The HR person may not be arsed filling in the paperwork.
3. The non-EU worker may not be qualified for the positions they are applying for/may not qualify for a work permit (work permits are only granted for certain jobs.)
4. The company may have an unofficial policy of not hiring non-EU workers.

Seifer

Can you expand on point 3? Assuming they are qualified for the job.
Is there a list somewhere of what jobs a work permit will be granted for?

Tom Dunne

Look at it from another angle - I would love to work and live in the US. I have a degree and a masters, but there isn't a hope of me getting a job over there for similar reasons.

So it's not just this country.

Seifer

Did you study your degree and masters in the US though?

Tom Dunne

No, but even if I did, it wouldn't guarantee me a work permit.

Seifer

Maybe not, I don't know but you would be eligible for citizenship. Where as here, years studying do not count towards citizenship. Anyway this is beside the point.
Anyone else with some useful info?

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

Can you expand on point 3? Assuming they are qualified for the job.
Is there a list somewhere of what jobs a work permit will be granted for?

From Citizens Information:

Green Card permit: this employment permit is for highly skilled migrant workers. It has replaced the previous working visa/work authorisation system. The previous working visa/authorisations remain valid for the duration covered by them and the people who hold them may renew under the new system.

Green Card permits are granted to 2 groups of people: people with specified skills in a restricted list of occupations in the salary range of €30,000 to €60,000 and people in almost any occupation where the salary range is above €60,000. There are further details in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment's Guide to Green Card Permits (pdf).

Work permits: may be issued to foreign nationals who need employment permits for those occupations to which the Green Card permit does not apply and where the salary is €30,000 or more and, in very limited circumstances, where the salary is less than this. There are certain occupations for which work permits are not considered. Further details about work permits are in the Department of Enterprise Trade and Employment's Guide to Work Permits (pdf).

Seifer

Cool, thanks for that.

MIN2511

Tom Dunne wrote: »

No, but even if I did, it wouldn't guarantee me a work permit.

It does guarantee you a work permit-1 year at least. In whatever field you study in, everyone is entitled to a years work permit.


OP the link posted above is good, look into it.

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

It does guarantee you a work permit-1 year at least. In whatever field you study in, everyone is entitled to a years work permit.

Could you explain this further?

murphym7

Seifer wrote: »

Can you expand on point 3? Assuming they are qualified for the job.
Is there a list somewhere of what jobs a work permit will be granted for?

Employers can get work permit for almost anyone. Example: the Brazilian's in Gort in the meat processing factory. You can bet they are not gettign €30k + for that work. Employers can make up the shortfall by prividing "bread & board".

AARRRGH

murphym7 wrote: »

Employers can get work permit for almost anyone. Example: the Brazilian's in Gort in the meat processing factory. You can bet they are not gettign €30k + for that work. Employers can make up the shortfall by prividing "bread & board".

Or they could be illegal?

I used to work in the hospitality industry and all the Indians, Chinese and Brazilians who worked there were illegals.

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

Could you explain this further?

I mean in the States not Ireland.


In America, once a foreign student completes their degree/masters they are entitled to 1yrs visa as long as they get a job in their field of study.

mrpink6789

In the current climate work permits are becoming less and less frequent. Generally the Government will offer a permit if the candidate passes all the points stated above about Masters etc, but there also has to be a lack of talen for that particular skill within the country. Now because there are more people out of work then there are jobs the Government believes that there is no skill shortage so they are reluctant to hand out permits. I have tried to get permits for candidates the last couple of months and have been refused, this time last year the same candidates would have got permits no problem.

galah

Also, do they not need to prove first that noone in the EU can do the same job before they can get a work visa for a non-EU person?

Which is a bit difficult considering the size of the EU these days...

MIN2511

mrpink6789 wrote: »

In the current climate work permits are becoming less and less frequent. Generally the Government will offer a permit if the candidate passes all the points stated above about Masters etc, but there also has to be a lack of talen for that particular skill within the country. Now because there are more people out of work then there are jobs the Government believes that there is no skill shortage so they are reluctant to hand out permits. I have tried to get permits for candidates the last couple of months and have been refused, this time last year the same candidates would have got permits no problem.

Very true, with the current state of the economy it is definitely difficult securing a work permit.

galah wrote: »

Also, do they not need to prove first that noone in the EU can do the same job before they can get a work visa for a non-EU person?

Which is a bit difficult considering the size of the EU these days...

There is a catch phrase in that, as we know there is no way in hell any company can say that there is no suitable person in the EU.

For a company to employ a non EU person in this present economy the Goverment should know that this person must be skilled with the relevant experience for that job. Everyday friends and family are being made redundant(and most people would look after their own first-if you get what i mean).



Ah, it's just bloody difficult- you win some and you lose some

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

I mean in the States not Ireland.

In America, once a foreign student completes their degree/masters they are entitled to 1yrs visa as long as they get a job in their field of study.

Are you sure?

I know there is a one year visa for people who have graduated twelve months previous to their application, but I have never heard of people with degrees being "entitled" to a one year visa.

For example, if I graduated thirteen months ago I could not apply for the one year work permit.

pretty*monster

We do have a graduate visa programme in this country actually.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/GraduateScheme.pdf/Files/GraduateScheme.pdf

MagicMarker

Seifer wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why employers are reluctant to higher someone that they would need to obtain a work permit for?
It is just because they have to do some extra paperwork or does it cost them something too?
The person in question has completed their undergraduate degree here and is currently studying a masters however in our rigid, flawed system, years studying here don't count towards citizenship years.

Why would an employer hire a qualified non eu citizen who requires a permit over a qualified Irish citizen who needs nothing? Especially in today's climate.

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

in our rigid, flawed system, years studying here don't count towards citizenship years.

I don't want to throw this way off topic, but if we counted college years towards citizenship, we'd have a serious immigration problem in this country - every Tom, Dick and Harry from wherever would come here to do their degree and get a nice Irish passport.

Seifer

pretty*monster wrote:

We do have a graduate visa programme in this country actually.

Thanks, I was aware of that but it's next to useless due to the unwillingness of employers to hire those requiring a work permit.

AARRRGH wrote:

I don't want to throw this way off topic, but if we counted college years towards citizenship, we'd have a serious immigration problem in this country - every Tom, Dick and Harry from wherever would come here to do their degree and get a nice Irish passport.

Yes, because it is incredibly cheap to study a degree here if you're not from the E.U. so all the immigrants would be doing it.

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

Yes, because it is incredibly cheap to study a degree here if you're not from the E.U. so all the immigrants would be doing it.

I'm not sure if that is sarcasm, but we already have a large amount of Chinese, Indian and Pakistani students here. We'd have a lot more if it was common knowledge that you can get a degree and an invaluable EU passport at the same time.

Our economy is small. We have to protect it somewhat.

Seifer

It was very much sarcasm.
Lol, yes we must protect our economy from all the third level graduates.
I assume you have no problem with letting all the non-nationals studying various areas of the health sciences sticking around because all the Irish ones piss off to better places?
And as amazing as we think we are, a lot of the people who can afford to study here are the kind of people who are looking forward to going back to their home country after completing their degree.
And if they were given E.U. citizenship, why would they stay on the little, rainy island?

AARRRGH

Seifer wrote: »

Lol, yes we must protect our economy from all the third level graduates.

It doesn't matter whether or not they have a third level education.

Do you realise how small our economy is? If you remove the property bubble we've had for the past 8 years you will see we don't have very much going for us.

If we gave every non-EU graduate an Irish passport it would open the flood gates to mass immigration (as stated previously, many non-EU citizens would be trying to get their education in Ireland.) The spouses of the new Irish citizens would also be entitled to visas.

It's not sustainable. I'd love if it was, but it's not. The current system makes sense.

Seifer wrote: »

I assume you have no problem with letting all the non-nationals studying various areas of the health sciences sticking around because all the Irish ones piss off to better places?

Where did I say I have a problem with work permits?

I'm not sure you've thought this through...

Seifer wrote: »

And as amazing as we think we are, a lot of the people who can afford to study here are the kind of people who are looking forward to going back to their home country after completing their degree.
And if they were given E.U. citizenship, why would they stay on the little, rainy island?

I don't think Irish people are amazing. I get the feeling you're trying to bring this into some kind of race debate (I don't give a damn what race someone is). The fact of the matter is someone from China or Pakistan would have a far greater standard of living in Ireland (or another EU country) compared to their home country. It is likely a lot of immigrants would stay here.

Our economy cannot handle mass immigration. End of story.

Seifer

AARRRGH wrote:

The fact of the matter is someone from China or Pakistan would have a far greater standard of living in Ireland (or another EU country) compared to their home country. It is likely a lot of immigrants would stay here

If someone comes here and is able to afford the non-EU fees of the university they attend and are able to afford the cost of living here then they would most likely live like kings in their country of origin and would have no desire to stay here.

AARRRGH wrote:

Our economy cannot handle mass immigration.

I'm not proposing mass immigration. I'm not proposing anything. Keep in mind though that I'm not refering to every non-national on the island. Just the ones that were able to pay their way here and support themselves throughout their 3rd level education.

Either way, thanks for the info.

none

AARRRGH wrote: »

If we gave every non-EU graduate an Irish passport it would open the flood gates to mass immigration (as stated previously, many non-EU citizens would be trying to get their education in Ireland.) The spouses of the new Irish citizens would also be entitled to visas.

It's not sustainable. I'd love if it was, but it's not. The current system makes sense.

...

Our economy cannot handle mass immigration. End of story.

I can agree with most of the things except the fact that the current system makes sense. It does not. I mean, the Irish immigration system is non-existent and non-functional. Not for the right people, not for the wrong people, not for the system itself. End of story. :cool:

Emerald Lass

AARRRGH wrote: »

The spouses of the new Irish citizens would also be entitled to visas.

sorry to bring back an old post, but was just searching through and found this.

Aarrrgh are you sure of this - that they would be entitled to a visa? I don't think that is correct. My fiance is a non-EU national, and we considered returning to Ireland when we get married - however we have been told that there is no guarantee that he will get a visa for more than a holiday. If he does get a visa to stay in Ireland long-term, afaik he can automatically get a work permit, but this is a catch 22 - because of the work permit they are reluctant to give out visas to spouses 9to discourage the whole concept of marrying just o get a work permit).

A spouse can come and visit their wife/hubby on holiday, and as far as I know there is something in the legislation that means these types of holiday visas must be issued. However, the spouse does not automatically get a visa to remain in Ireland and work. At least this is what I have been told. If you have different info I would love to hear it as if it were possible for my hubby to get a visa and come to Ireland indefinitely I would certainly be doing my best to convince him to move!

MIN2511

Emerald Lass wrote: »

sorry to bring back an old post, but was just searching through and found this.

Aarrrgh are you sure of this - that they would be entitled to a visa? I don't think that is correct. My fiance is a non-EU national, and we considered returning to Ireland when we get married - however we have been told that there is no guarantee that he will get a visa for more than a holiday. If he does get a visa to stay in Ireland long-term, afaik he can automatically get a work permit, but this is a catch 22 - because of the work permit they are reluctant to give out visas to spouses 9to discourage the whole concept of marrying just o get a work permit).

A spouse can come and visit their wife/hubby on holiday, and as far as I know there is something in the legislation that means these types of holiday visas must be issued. However, the spouse does not automatically get a visa to remain in Ireland and work. At least this is what I have been told. If you have different info I would love to hear it as if it were possible for my hubby to get a visa and come to Ireland indefinitely I would certainly be doing my best to convince him to move!

Hey, nobody is guaranteed to get a work visa. It all depends on circumstances, your fiance cannot get a work permit unless you are married.
If both of you are in the country and can provide your marriage certificate, he would get a 2/5 yr visa allowing him to work in Ireland. There is a preference for married people.
I can't find the link, would post when i do.

The thing with the work permits is some people get it and others don't. Sometimes i think it's all about luck!

Emerald Lass

well at least the chances of him getting at least permission to stay in Ireland is possible! even if a work permit is not assured. but I am also hearing tell of people having difficulty even getting a visa to visit Ireland as a spouse.

Its all moot anyway, as we are not yet married. I would prefer if we can gt him a visa to Ireland for a holiday and get married in Ireland so that my elderly dad can give me away. If we can get that sorted then I will worry about applying for a spouse visa and all the stress that goes with that.

My worry is applying for his visit to Ireland to get married - if we tell them that is the reason for the visit, will they refuse as they know once he gets here and gets married he can apply to stay? would it be better to say nothing and just say we want to visit family? also, he has had business visa's in the past and could legitimately apply for another one of those for a month - but is it even legal to get married in Ireland if you are a non-EU national who entered on a business visa? (I know he will need paperwork etc to arrange this, but that aside would he be allowed to marry in Ireland?)

Xiney

When I arrived in Ireland (September 2007) all I did was register with GNIB and I was automatically granted a stamp 4 - this allows me to live and work in Ireland without a work permit. It was a lot quicker and far more painless than the 18 month rigamorole that Immigration Canada put my husband through!

Spouse of an Irish national

If you are a non-EEA national married to an Irish national you do not have an automatic right to live in Ireland. There are 2 ways to apply for permission to live in Ireland:

* If you currently have permission to live in Ireland, you should go with your Irish national spouse to register with the GNIB or your local immigration officer as the spouse of an Irish national - see 'How to apply' below.
* If you do not have permission to live in Ireland, you must apply in writing to the Marriage to Irish National Section of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) - see 'Where to apply below.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-to-ireland/rights-of-residence-in-ireland/residence-rights-of-non-eea-nationals-in-ireland

Basically, as long as your fiance isn't in the country illegally (didn't sneak in or stay beyond a visitor's visa) you should be ok, I think.


ETA: oh, when I came in through the airport I didn't say I was here visiting, I said that I was coming here with the intention of living here with my Irish spouse and registering with the GNIB as such. You have to tell the immigration officers at the airport the full truth. I flew in alone, as well, I didn't need my husband there to corroborate my story.

EmerBaggott

Hi,
As an Irish citizen soon to marry my bulgarian partner I am just wondering after our wedding day, & we head to the GNIB how long should this process take? Do you know what stamp or visa entitlement he will be granted...As it stands bulgairan nationals still require a work permit in order to work in Ireland, this is where the problems all started...But it seems after we have wedded this shouldnt be a problem anymore. I would be really grateful for any help or advice you could give me...Thanks

none

Since Bulgaria is EU, he may live here. He has restrictions with regard to work, however. But that's secondary. First, you marry. Then he's a spouse of an Irish citizen and as such can get Stamp 4 or 4EUFAM. And with that Stamp he would need no permit to work in Ireland. Honestly, it's a bit messy with regard to Bulgarians ands Romanians because they are EU in some sense (so need no visas to come here) but not allowed to work (so need work permits). But the scenario above should be applicable anyway.

EmerBaggott

Thank you for your advice. Yes it is a very messy situation. But hopefully most of our problems will be lessoned after our wedding But we'l prob meet the jobs barrier situation then...Ah well we'l hope for the best, thank you