This is gonna cause problems

Busta Hyman

i know how well maintained airsoft shops are and how cautios when it looks like the sale will cause problems down the road by making sure ppl are aware of the implications / dangers of these things. but a well known gadget shop has started selling these in the run up to christmas in the front window and is selling them with .12g bbs Deagles / Aks / Glocks etc. im known in store but want to know if they are giving any safety advice / informing ppl that taking these out in public will lead to an armed responce incident. not sure if i can give the name on the forums so someone let me know if i can

TheDoc

I know airsofters etc go absolutely spare when this sorta thing happens.

But at the end of the day, they are classified as toys, and because of this, there is no LEGAL age limit to own one, its put in place by respectful retailers.

But you cant butcher or badmouth a company trying to make money, and this to them looks a lucrative market.

Until there is a type of regulation, where only specific airsoft retailers are allowed sell equipment this is going to keep happen.

kdouglas

Cheap and underpowered stuff at over inflated prices is what they sell for the most part, and whether we like it or not, they are perfectly entitled to do so.

Genghiz Cohen

kdouglas wrote: »

Cheap and underpowered stuff

So cheap and underpowered in fact that it won't do any harm at point blank range.

Yet, I'd hate to be the one to ruin airsoft for the rest of us....

Stercus Accidit

Contact the IAA if you are concerned, they can have a chat with the owner.

As above though, cheap tat at inflated prices, and the sort that sell like that dont give a damn really.

ScumLord

Busta Hyman wrote: »

/ informing ppl that taking these out in public will lead to an armed responce incident.

I don't think the first assumption when people see kids with guns is that there real. Unless maybe you live on a certain estate in Limerick.

They sold those guns at our town festival market day and they where all terrible guns and don't look real.

G3-Nut

yeah there is a particular franchise of stores all over ireland that sell that, as well as dildos, and bongs, so its pretty irritating...there is a new shop in carlow also doing this, pisses me off

ScumLord

G3-Nut wrote: »

yeah there is a particular franchise of stores all over ireland that sell that, as well as dildos, and bongs, so its pretty irritating...there is a new shop in carlow also doing this, pisses me off

Why on earth would you get upset over a shop. Just don't go there, problem solved.

G3-Nut

ScumLord wrote: »

Why on earth would you get upset over a shop. Just don't go there, problem solved.

when you see 12 year old scumbags walking out with the pistol in hand and out of the box and shooting at teh ducks by the river im sure you would not be happy

ScumLord

G3-Nut wrote: »

when you see 12 year old scumbags walking out with the pistol in hand and out of the box and shooting at teh ducks by the river im sure you would not be happy

That's kids for you. Wouldn't call them scumbags, just young and stupid like everyone is at that age.

Lemming

ScumLord wrote: »

That's kids for you. Wouldn't call them scumbags, just young and stupid like everyone is at that age.

I didn't abuse animals when I was 12, nor did any of my mates. So why should we cut them a length of slack that says it's acceptable to abuse animals in this country? This country has a shockingly bad animal welfare reputation as it stands.

Scumbags is what they are. Doesn't matter if they're shooting BBs at them or feeding them bangers stuffed inside sandwiches.

TheDoc

Lemming wrote: »

I didn't abuse animals when I was 12, nor did any of my mates. So why should we cut them a length of slack that says it's acceptable to abuse animals in this country? This country has a shockingly bad animal welfare reputation as it stands.

Scumbags is what they are. Doesn't matter if they're shooting BBs at them or feeding them bangers stuffed inside sandwiches.

The day someone beats lemming in any type of arguement is the day they are inducted in the boards hall of fame.

One thing that doesnt come up often in these topics is the parents. And if we see in the news in the coming weeks " Teens shooting ducks" , and if I was interviewed and asked how to curb airsoft being used in the wrong mannor I'd reply

"The problem isnt with airsoft, the problem is largely due to people using airsoft equipment for the wrong purpose, but also the parents of these children, who have generally no clue what their teens buy"

I just dont get it, my parents closely monitor what I buy... there was such a struggle convincing my ma that airsoft was safe and cool.

And even still, when I go to show family members/friends my kit, she gives me a safety lecture.

Shed be the perfect head of IAA in fairness

But I'd have some faith to be honest. We have done a pretty good job so far fobbing incidents off once they arnt directly airsoft related.

The day someone gets mauled on an airsoft site is the day we REALLY have to worry.

Or the day where everyone is rampant cheating....

ScumLord

Lemming wrote: »

I didn't abuse animals when I was 12, nor did any of my mates. So why should we cut them a length of slack that says it's acceptable to abuse animals in this country? This country has a shockingly bad animal welfare reputation as it stands.

I'm not saying it should go unpunished but it's not unusual, kids have underdeveloped social skills they barely care about other people never mind animals so it's not unusual for them to torment animals. It's more unusual that you or your friends didn't do anything to torment animals when you where young.

Lemming

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm not saying it should go unpunished but it's not unusual, kids have underdeveloped social skills they barely care about other people never mind animals so it's not unusual for them to torment animals. It's more unusual that you or your friends didn't do anything to torment animals when you where young.

Thank you for making my argument about what's considered socially acceptable so eloquently ...

Incidentally, bollocks to the lot of it. I knew the difference between right and wrong before I was 12 years of age. So do these kids, unless there is something medically wrong with them in a mental capacity. To say that kids can't tell the difference between right and wrong at that age or otherwise is simply making excuses. I would expect a 3-5 year old to pull a dogs tail or throw a stone and scare an animal because they are still learning their limits. I would expect anyone older to know the difference between hurting another person or animal and not doing so at a bare minimum if not outright "this is wrong, that isn't wrong, etc."

MacAonghusa

It was very common to see kids throwing stones at cats or dogs 20 years ago, it's very common today. kids will be kids, such is life, nothing to lose sleep over.

Lemming wrote: »

Thank you for making my argument about what's considered socially acceptable so eloquently ...

Incidentally, bollocks to the lot of it. I knew the difference between right and wrong before I was 12 years of age. So do these kids, unless there is something medically wrong with them in a mental capacity. To say that kids can't tell the difference between right and wrong at that age or otherwise is simply making excuses. I would expect a 3-5 year old to pull a dogs tail or throw a stone and scare an animal because they are still learning their limits. I would expect anyone older to know the difference between hurting another person or animal and not doing so at a bare minimum if not outright "this is wrong, that isn't wrong, etc."

MacAonghusa

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I just dont get it, my parents closely monitor what I buy... there was such a struggle convincing my ma that airsoft was safe and cool.

Simple. All parents are different. Be thankful yours care

Stercus Accidit

Lets not start discussing the place of scumbaggery in Ireland or animal welfare please, its a pain in the ass reading through a load of argumentative posts just to get the jist of the thread.

AFAIK this shop doesnt have a swan shooting range on site so thats not the issue.

Doc put it well, as long as they aren't legally doing anything wrong, they'll make their profit. There is some talk of registration of retailers selling airsoft in the pipe work isnt there? Until then, expect a few rag headlines in the run up to christmas about wee jimmy and the glock he shot his sister with on christmas day.

Its the people who misuse the gear that are to blame, unscrupulous retailers and bad parents, not airsoft the sport, and I think everyone agrees on that.

Vegeta

I know you don't like talking about real firearms here but it is looking like pistol shooting is in pretty big trouble. All sparked by criminals using illegal firearms, nothing to do with legitimate users at all

So if you think air soft is safe when a scumbag abuses the equipment then you are being very naive. If the powers that be want to ban airsoft they will find a reason.

Protect your sport folks

Stercus Accidit

Vegeta wrote: »

I know you don't like talking about real firearms here but it is looking like pistol shooting is in pretty big trouble. All sparked by criminals using illegal firearms, nothing to do with legitimate users at all

So if you think air soft is safe when a scumbag abuses the equipment then you are being very naive. If the powers that be want to ban airsoft they will find a reason.

Protect your sport folks

Don't worry, we are not that naive.

Saw that btw, its in the politics forum also, concensus is that the legitatmite shooters will be the scapegoats for a failed government and policing of the worst offenders and crimes. Its a pretty transparant attack and its a disgrace.

So far the IAA have kept the sport well, represented it when needed, and our legitimate retailers and sites have proved to that we are responsible.

AIrsoft may well come under another attack by the red tops and scaremongers, but hopefully it will be in a position to defend itself.

Fallschirmjager

i agree with what lemming said, the more rope you give, the more they will hang you with it...this is a parenting problem and has rapidly become a societal one. someone who tortures animals has a shocking insensitivity to life and i would be prepared to bet these are the very same kids who are also involved in other areas like bullying, petty crime etc. and i dont buy this 'they are kids'. if you have decided to treat animals in this manner a rubicon has been crossed IMO and there needs to be a swift result. When we as a society dont react to these incidents we create larger issues later on. this is the 'broken window' scenario (i see a broken window, i break another as no one cares etc). the reason they are acting like this is because there is no consequences. none. personally i would nail these little btards to the wall. On a related note, isnt it interesting to note the very same people who say 'we should understand' who agree with moral equivalence in the govt circles ...are the very ones who also want to ban anything that looks like a gun. that never ceases to truly amaze me.

i also find what vegeta said desperately depressing to read in the 21 century....

here is the arguement. people are getting shot, so we should ban legal guns. er, isnt it the illegal ones that are the issue?? Have we as a society not matured beyond this? jesus that is the most depressing thing i have read in weeks. i thought we have left that far behind.

G3-Nut

Lemming wrote: »

Thank you for making my argument about what's considered socially acceptable so eloquently ...

Incidentally, bollocks to the lot of it. I knew the difference between right and wrong before I was 12 years of age. So do these kids, unless there is something medically wrong with them in a mental capacity. To say that kids can't tell the difference between right and wrong at that age or otherwise is simply making excuses. I would expect a 3-5 year old to pull a dogs tail or throw a stone and scare an animal because they are still learning their limits. I would expect anyone older to know the difference between hurting another person or animal and not doing so at a bare minimum if not outright "this is wrong, that isn't wrong, etc."

Exactly, agree 100%...but thats not even my main point, my main point that i was trying to get across is these stores couldnt give 2 shades of excrement(did i even spell taht right?) about this sport and its people..., personally i think a move by the IAA to have only licsenced airsoft retailers sell airsoft guns would be great...having these kind of shops selling AEG's and GBB's is like having a pub renting cars to paying customers at the end of the night.

ED E

Lemming wrote: »

I didn't abuse animals when I was 12, nor did any of my mates. So why should we cut them a length of slack that says it's acceptable to abuse animals in this country? This country has a shockingly bad animal welfare reputation as it stands.

Scumbags is what they are. Doesn't matter if they're shooting BBs at them or feeding them bangers stuffed inside sandwiches.

What he said:cool:

Maye you were a *self snip* twat as a kid, but that doesnt mean everyone is.

BornToKill

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

But at the end of the day, they are classified as toys

That's not true - they are not classed as toys. In fact, they are not classed as anything at all, except in the negative. that is to say, if the muzzle energy is under one joule they are not considered to be firearms. That is all.

Busta Hyman

im not sure this is underpowered crap being sold

ithey bear an "under 1 joule" sticker but they seem heavyweight the glocks look and feel good great feel to the rail action and on the whole seem pretty good my concern is that if the shop leads ppl to beleive they can carry these in the open without reprisal we are ALL F&€K@D


imagine the news report the first time mr "Rat face scumbag" whips his peice out in teh middle of dundrum / blanchardstown / pavillions during the run up to xmas when its full of shoppers "for the Craic". Thats gonna look good for the sport

hoplite

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm not saying it should go unpunished but it's not unusual, kids have underdeveloped social skills they barely care about other people never mind animals so it's not unusual for them to torment animals. It's more unusual that you or your friends didn't do anything to torment animals when you where young.

Jesus

MacAonghusa wrote: »

It was very common to see kids throwing stones at cats or dogs 20 years ago, it's very common today. kids will be kids, such is life, nothing to lose sleep over.

Wept

That is all. :mad:

Spetzcong

G3-Nut wrote: »

a move by the IAA to have only licsenced airsoft retailers sell airsoft guns would be great...having these kind of shops selling AEG's and GBB's is like having a pub renting cars to paying customers at the end of the night.

While I agree in principle I think the reality is it is more difficult than it first seems, as has been rightly pointed out airsoft devices aren't classified as anything specifically right now, who would decide on who did or did not qualify for a liscence? Who would enforce things? I know there are retailers guidelines, but there's a big difference between guidelines and rules/regulations you could use to licence something. In terms of the IAA pushing for it, it's probably way trickier than it sounds, but either way that's a discussion for the IAA forums.

For the moment we just have to hope that retailers selling these airsoft guns are worried enough by the effect any particularly bad incidents involving a product they've sold might have on their business and will try to act responsibly when selling them.

About the animals thing, last year when I did T4BB with the rest of the team, one of the questions I was asked most frequently about the guns was "would it kill a cat?". I was asked it about a dozen times by different scumbags, it doesn't paint a very good picture, especially considering a lot of them ended up buying AEGs there.

extremetaz

<IAA hat off>
without going into it too much - spetzcong has hit the nail on the head.

you can legislate against an item if, in the legal system, its potential to cause harm through misuse or intent is recognised.

Items seen to fall under this catagory are listed as "offensive articles".

Now having airsoft devices catagorised as "offensive articles" is clearly not a step that anyone want to take because, bottom line - they're not!!

Whereas, as long as they sit in the limbo they're in - no current legislation can apply.

In the UK, under the VCRA, the became classed as RIF (Replica Imitation Firearms) - which is a fair catagorisation in truth as long as the word "Firearms" in there doesn't get them lumped in with the real thing. Which, thankfully, it hasn't done over there - but thats not to say that some jumped up local politician wouldn't try and make the connection here if such a title was used and it suited them.

However - something DOES need to be done, and will be sooner or later. Personally, a VCRA style system without the exclusion of collectors and plinkers, without the indiginous retailer monopoly, and without that rediculous two-tone rubbish probably would be workable. The key to such a system then is a club members database which is accessible in appropriate detail to the appropriate parties.

hrta

Vegeta wrote: »

I know you don't like talking about real firearms here but it is looking like pistol shooting is in pretty big trouble. All sparked by criminals using illegal firearms, nothing to do with legitimate users at all

So if you think air soft is safe when a scumbag abuses the equipment then you are being very naive. If the powers that be want to ban airsoft they will find a reason.

Protect your sport folks

I'd say it has more to do with a failed government and policing, that cant protect it's law abiding people, and now there afaid that these law abiding people will start to protect them self's.

hrta

Busta Hyman wrote: »

i know how well maintained airsoft shops are and how cautios when it looks like the sale will cause problems down the road by making sure ppl are aware of the implications / dangers of these things. but a well known gadget shop has started selling these in the run up to christmas in the front window and is selling them with .12g bbs Deagles / Aks / Glocks etc. im known in store but want to know if they are giving any safety advice / informing ppl that taking these out in public will lead to an armed responce incident. not sure if i can give the name on the forums so someone let me know if i can

All's thats realy needed is education.

tonky

Called into the local Gadget Shop to suss this out.
Mostly Cybergun stuff, quality medium-ish to ok in the displays.
Large sign beside each display - 'Over 18's Only - ID required' - The guy said this was strictly enforced.
TBH I have to say some of the items were good quality and trademarked,
a bit pricey - it's a gadget shop
Hope some knob does not ruin it for everyone by pulling one out in the pub or on the street.

Tigger

MacAonghusa wrote: »

It was very common to see kids throwing stones at cats or dogs 20 years ago, it's very common today. kids will be kids, such is life, nothing to lose sleep over.

you grew up in sligo in fairness

Fyr.Fytr

tonky wrote: »

Called into the local Gadget Shop to suss this out.
Mostly Cybergun stuff, quality medium-ish to ok in the displays.
Large sign beside each display - 'Over 18's Only - ID required' - The guy said this was strictly enforced.
TBH I have to say some of the items were good quality and trademarked,
a bit pricey - it's a gadget shop
Hope some knob does not ruin it for everyone by pulling one out in the pub or on the street.

Good, i was outside the same shop and saw a number of teens on their break from a local school eyeing them up "Aww man a glock thats real gangster" their words not mine.

I think i should be regulated and ive an awful gut feeling all it will take is one youth to produce it in public and for it all to tumble out of control.

Hopefully the price will turn them off, as for the over 18 thing, phfft doesnt matter a damn, look at smokes and drink "here mister will you get the for us?"

TheDoc

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

What he said:cool:

Maye you were a *self snip* twat as a kid, but that doesnt mean everyone is.

Because you maybe threw rocks at a duck etc when you were younger, doesnt make you stupid,idiots,moronic or a twat.

It takes for someone to show you why and how you were wrong, and punish you accordingly. From this, the hope is that you learn what is right and what is wrong.

Everyone has done stupid **** when they were younger, or if your me, you still do it.

If you live in an area populated with children, generally every summer you see a rake of kids out playing with springers, and no one bats an eye lid, no guards, no protest, no nothing. We all know, that 10 yr olds with what look to be guns, are no doubt using BB firing items. Items which they got abroad.

Its when their parents or other parents or older mature folk in the neighbourhood approach these childre, in a polite manner, and explain why they shouldnt play with them in the road. That is generally how they will retain the information as to why using anything that looks like a gun in public, is wrong.

There always seems to be some sort of extreme elitism when it comes to this sort of thing. Like if someone doesnt play airsoft, they should have no right to buy an airsoft product, and if someone who dabbles in a bit of airsoft retailing on the side, is an instant evil doer. I think people need to brighten up and waken up a bit.

There is a gadget shop in swords, my area, selling these devices...and as early as yesterday whilst i was browsing, three teens purchased airsoft equipment. They provided their id, which was asked for ( let us again remind ourselves you DONT need id to purchase,own or use an airsoft device, its good good practice) and the shop attendant gave a brief " and lads dont go using these outside or you will get in ****, keep it to private or indoor land" Now that might not be the most sterling english used, but atleast some warning was given.

I dont know how many times i say this, but you can walk into a sports shop, buy a hurley at age 6 and go smack someone to death with it. You could buy screwdriver sets years ago at any age.

Theres always someone somewhere that will take something ment for one purpose, and use it for the exact opposite.

The Hurley is probably the most used weapon in this country by folk defending their home etc, yet you dont see them getting banned.

I think the sooner people realise that A) Eventually something serious or well publicised will happen with airsoft devices realise there is sweey **** all you can do about it to stop it and C) When it does happen, be prepared, cause i bet any amount of money the person who causes the act, has no idea about airsoft, but bought what they thought was a gun.

And I think the constant bashing of gadget shops retailing airsoft goods, is elitist, immature and ill informed. They ask for id, which they dont need too, so they are going some way to atleast be somewhat concerned about what they sell.

Bottom line is they have every right to sell them, they sell them at over inflated prices, end of.

weeder

excellent post doc now obviously all shops probabaly dont ask for ID like the place in swords but its going to show that ye cant tar all these chaps with the one brush,never seen the point in giving out about these places as for most of us its probabaly how we learned of airsoft tbh.that said im usually the first to give out when i see a price tag in those places

Spetzcong

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

There always seems to be some sort of extreme elitism when it comes to this sort of thing. Like if someone doesnt play airsoft, they should have no right to buy an airsoft product, and if someone who dabbles in a bit of airsoft retailing on the side, is an instant evil doer. I think people need to brighten up and waken up a bit.

I don't think it's elitism, I think it's just us being protective of our sport. The whole issue with pistols recently should reinforce the precarious position our sport could be in if there was enough of a bother caused by some scumbag acting the maggot. I'd be prepared to wager that one highly publicised incident of someone using an airsoft device in an armed robbery would be all it took for them to shut us down completely.

I think it's natural to be suspicious of someone who's willing to spend €100 + on an airsoft device and isn't a collector, plinker or skirmisher. The question has to be asked: If they aren't any of the above then what exactly are they planning on doing with their AEG/GBB?

It be the same with anything really, I mean there are perfectly good reasons to own a baseball bat, but if someone clearly wasn't a baseballer you'd be a bit suspicious of what they were buying a bat for wouldn't ya? That's not people who play baseball being elitist, that's just common sense.

I agree that non-specialist airsoft shops who sell airsoft products do tend to come in for a bit of a bashing on here, which may be undeserved in some cases, but because they're not specialist airsoft stores I think most people presume that the people running them don't really care about airsoft, the worry then is that if they don't care about airsoft they might do something which would put the sport in jeopardy (i.e. sell a GBB to the masked man who came in looking for directions to the bank)

Fallschirmjager

doc,

you raised some good points there but i would like to reply to a few of them if i may.

elitism
caring for my sport is not elitist. if you care for any sport it is not elitist. it appears to the casual player as elitist but that is due to lack of knowledge. I have zero interest in football, zero, none, nada. I listen to people who are avid supporters of man utd or liverpool, every fracken day of my life...are they elitist? no, they love their sport. I happen to love airsoft. When i see someone with a casual interest in airsoft showing no concern for its future, for its safety measures, for the effort you, i , the real shops, the people who have put their life into creating really good game zones, i dont feel it is unfair of me to express a view that they are putting our entire sport at risk. that is not elitism, that is care and love of my sport...there is a difference.

airsoft versus hurley
i too agree all to often in ireland there is an obsession with the tool of a crime rather then the person who committed it or the crime itself. However like it or not, the dirty dark secret we all try to hide in airsoft, the secret that shall not be named, is our aeg's,gbb look real. they are not hurleys. they look dangerous. in Ireland, it is irrelevant that hitting someone with an aeg is far more dangerous then shooting them with it. however, you are making a fundamental mistake (IMHO) , you are assuming knowledge and factual information will win through. Unfortunately i wish it were so. If a govt that is beset with problems, needs to be seen to do something, anything, they will throw raw meat to the masses to prove they are full of action. Hurleys will not be thrown to the wolves (it has not been used to commit a murder and they would look ridiculous), but we would be very foolish to think airsoft will somehow manage to dodge (if you can excuse the pun) that bullet, as we look as if we 'could' have committed a crime. They will use a variety of tools to do this, thugs training with them, getting familiar with them via airsoft blah blah blah. All total BS mind, but we will be shouted down and drowned out in the rush to ban. Also equating screwdrivers with airsoft, is not a fair comparison. A screwdriver can indeed be used as an offensive weapon, indeed it is far far more devastating then an airsoft aeg, but it is simply not feasible to ban screwdrivers. I totally agree that the policing should be on how you use anything as an offensive weapon, but it isnt or certainly isnt enough.

the shops
I am sorry but the one sentence about safety has nothing what so ever to do with safety, it to do with the shop owner protecting themselves. He wants to be able stand up in court and say i warned them. Nothing wrong with that (i am a proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy on personal responsibility) but to equate that with care for airsoft or fellow citizens is a stretch IMHO. I think we are perfectly entitled to bash (your words not mine) shops that run the risk of damaging our sport. I am, as a citizen and as an airsofter, very concerned that they know little and care even less about what they are selling and who is buying and like it or not there is 2 people involved in each transaction, the seller and the buyer and both have responsibilities. I have no issue with them selling them at all, i do care how they sell them and i believe they have a responsibility to do better here. Again that is not elitist, immature or ill informed, in fact i would argue its the opposite of these. It is not immature to care about my sport and my fellow citizens and i certainly dont agree that its ill informed, in fact if anything we here are quite probably the most educated about what airsoft is and is not capable off. to express our concern, is a perfectly viable response, again IMHO.

please dont take this response as a rocket, it isnt, i am merely discussing your points in an honest manner. Obviously we can all have differening opinions, and that is to be applauded, but we do need to wear our so called 'elitist' (some comical sarcasm there, okay maybe not comical then) stripes proudly. Anyone who, like my football friends would, if their sport was attacked, who blasts airsoft, can expect a reasoned argumentative and consistent response from me. I am no longer adopting a sit back and see, a sit back and hope approach. As you said yourself, a problem is coming. I think and again i applaud the IAA for their action on this, however we ALL need to fight back. acceptance of second best is not what or where we should be aiming.

i also dont agree on the kids part, but i need to respond to that in a way where i can explain the situation we are in.

obviously that is all just my opinion.

TheDoc

More posts like that would make the cyber world a better place. Excellent reply thats well written and looks like we have a nice debate on our hands.

My points and opinions are generally, that I think sometimes, we are our own worst enemies. If you go back and look at any sort of topic like this, you find the scaremongerers, are ourselves.

The shop in question, in Swords, does not seem to have the capability to sell to anyone under 18.

In the front window the guns are clearly displayed, but along with a small piece that outlines their legality, the 1 joule and the relevant legaslation. It also notes that they consider these items to be toys for big boys, therefore are strictly over 18. And they advise that goggles be worn at all times when using the items.

There is no doubting that the company are printing these as merely covering their arse..but its nice to see they did some sort of research, and are being responsible about it. Its easy to say that they are just covering their arse, in that case...every airsoft retailer is also covering their arse. Which is obvious, they do not HAVE to sell to only over 18's, but they do, which in my eyes is a responsible move. To also elaborate on my point, that the store assistant did warn the customer about consequences should they use them in public.
They may not know alot about airsoft, or play..but they know procedures, enough to say I'm personally satisfied with how they are selling the equipment. And it should be noted all their little sales pitch tags are the sort " let of some steam by firing BB's at a target, can or a pillow"

My reference to the hurley was a point to convey how freely you can acquire items, cheaply and easy, that will do more damage then an airsoft device.

To further curb any fears people may have, it should be noted that they sell a Tauras M9 for 250 euro..a similar piece we had in store for I think sub 100 mark. What I dont understand is why there is ADAMENT fears.

if I am a bank robber, I'm not going to use an airsoft gun, I'll buy a real one or blank firing gun.
If I'm going to rob my local store or post office, again I'm not going to use an airsoft gun, I'm going to use a real one, or a knife.
If I'm going to knock lumps outa someone for sleeping with my girlfriend, I'll use a hurley, golf club, pole..just about anything other then an airsoft gun.
If I'm going to look intimidating to people...I'm going to buy loads of fred perry and burberry and carry a screwdriver..I'm not spending 250 euro on a toy plastic gun.

Perhaps maybe my points now are starting to become clearer, there is more chance of troublemakers buying their airsoft stuff from an airsoft dealer then a gadget shop. Main point being, gadget shops are WAY too expensive.

From my own dealings and experience, you see someone in the shop, you get a bad vibe about them and when you start telling them prices and that they need id you see themselves backing away...they do not want to spend big money on something that effectively...is a toy.

On the elitism part, I think we are both sensible enough to know, there is a serious amount in the sport in various sectors. And I do feel theres a certain instant reaction when word comes around that a NON dedicated retailer is selling airsoft kit. Or that non-airsofters, are buying our stuff for perhaps just a mess about or wall hangers etc.

I understand people have different views, and some may not be along the line of mine, and thats fine, to be fair I dont think I've got some outragous solo view.

I think the only point of view you could take from me, in this, and the whole of airsoft...is that one day, someone is going to do something serious. And nothing, NOTHING can be done, written,debated or implemented, to prevent a twonk from acting the twonk.

The essential part, the part to which I think is critical if this happens( and im more inclined to think when) is how we as a community and the IAA as an organisation react.

I think a pivotal move is getting the authorities to understand, and witness, the joy we all have playing airsoft, and to a certain extent I think that has and has not happend. So should something drastic happen, that should a question arise " **** me maybe we should ban this" The First thing that will pop into their head is " well actually, few hundred people play this weekly and enjoy it, musta been someone up to no good"

Hurley and golf doesnt come into disrapute every week when someone gets a smack over the head with their tools of play, because.... its known, mainstream, that its a sport, and any messing, is caused by someone abusing the equipment.

I think the line needs to be set out and imprinted in peoples heads, that its not the AEG,GBB thats doing the damage, its a lunatic abusing the tools of our sport.

And I also wouldnt be so quick to point fingers at sub 18 year olds to be the main " point" of concern. I am more concerned with some people who are over 18, supposidly adults. I think we can all agree, this sport brings in so many warying cultures, personalities, opinions and people.

But there is certain adults, that I've serious concerns over should they get their hands on Airsoft equipment.

Evolute

tonky wrote: »

Hope some knob does not ruin it for everyone by pulling one out in the pub or on the street.

Sadly on halloween I saw that happen in Fibber Magees.
Some skin head gob****e pulled a Deagle on the barman.
I thought it was quite funny when the barman reefed it out of his hand and pulled off the slide and threw it in the bin. Then the bouncers had their fun

TheDoc

it was airsoft guns galore where i was in halloween, saw no incident.

Me and fayer there in our airsoft loadouts, no aegs etc

Though we got alot of attention...

Breaching the VIP area, succesfully with our fingers, was the highlight of my night

Busta Hyman

i Didnt bring this to attention to cause a row. and when i spoke to the guy in the same shop in swords he didnt mention to me anything about this not being wise to bring it out in public. he let me look at them fiddle with them and told me what they came with thats all and the fact there is a nice disply in the front window with loads of kids swarming everytime i walk past....

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

But there is certain adults, that I've serious concerns over should they get their hands on Airsoft equipment.

and i hope your not talking about me m8 :eek:

TheDoc

HAHA LOL

No

Believe me, theres only a few will know what im on about

iceage

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

Breaching the VIP area, succesfully with our fingers, was the highlight of my night

That sounds just so wrong Doc! :eek:

Busta Hyman

Dont be so childish hes not talking about the actual vip area

its a Metaphor for there "brown" Vip area

kdouglas

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

I think the line needs to be set out and imprinted in peoples heads, that its not the AEG,GBB thats doing the damage, its a lunatic abusing the tools of our sport.

I agree with everything in your post, however........

People see a golf club or a hurley being used in a crime and they dont blame the golfers or the hurlers.... BUT.... people react completely differently to airsoft because of how they look. We all know a golf club or hurl can do much more damage than any airsoft gun can, but to the general public, it's the reaction of "oh sh!t, a gun" that comes into play, not "oh look, a completely legal and safe airsoft gas blowback pistol"

So while we should continue to educate people and publicise the sport, especially highlighting the community and international aspects of it, there are always going to be the ignorant people who will react as above.

kdouglas

Busta Hyman wrote: »

Dont be so childish hes not talking about the actual vip area

its a Metaphor for there "brown" Vip area

<mod hat on>

Grow up please, this thread _was_ heading in the direction of an adult and rational debate.

</mod hat off>

TheDoc

kdouglas wrote: »

I agree with everything in your post, however........

People see a golf club or a hurley being used in a crime and they dont blame the golfers or the hurlers.... BUT.... people react completely differently to airsoft because of how they look. We all know a golf club or hurl can do much more damage than any airsoft gun can, but to the general public, it's the reaction of "oh sh!t, a gun" that comes into play, not "oh look, a completely legal and safe airsoft gas blowback pistol"

point taken.

I guess until someone of authority comes out saying themselves how safe they are, it wont change.

Anytime i read or hear of airsoft guns its the " they look real" aspect.

OzCam

As has been said many times in other places and threads, we need to bring in some kind of self-regulation PDQ, because otherwise our sport could be regulated out from under us shortly.

If the Gov't goes ahead with this proposal to ban all handguns (and I know that's mainly for the optics and won't make a damn bit of difference to real criminals, let's not start all that again) - mainly by revoking the licenses - they can make airsoft pistols illegal to possess by the addition of three simple little words to the law... "or facsimile thereof".

This is a clear and (almost) present danger to our sport. We need to get moving.

What's happening in gadget shops is out of our control. We can't be wasting any more time fretting about them.

I somewhat reluctantly agreed with the opinion that we're better off adopting the lowest possible profile for the time being, but I fear that we're about to be overtaken by events.

Fallschirmjager

oz over on the IAA forum is a section on this that i think we all need to read regularly. in fact you reminded me so i will do that, this weekend. it is honestly worth a relook as there has been a lot of amazing work done in these areas.

MacAonghusa

Tigger wrote: »

you grew up in sligo in fairness

I didn't actually. I'm only a blow in.

OzCam

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

oz over on the IAA forum is a section on this that i think we all need to read regularly...

Yes, that's the one. It produced some good debate, and the more people that participate, the better. The guys have worked wonders on it. However, and despite the fact that I don't like being bounced into things generally, I really think we need to deliver something ASAP.


(Any further debate on that IAA initiative needs to take place on the IAA Forum, not here. Them's The Rules. I'm just commenting in a wider sense on how slender is the thread our sport hangs by. Some of the less mature posters on this Board in previous go-arounds of this subject don't seem to get that.)

Evolute

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

it was airsoft guns galore where i was in halloween, saw no incident.

Me and fayer there in our airsoft loadouts, no aegs etc

Though we got alot of attention...

Breaching the VIP area, succesfully with our fingers, was the highlight of my night

It was at the upstairs bar and it was over quite quick Deagle got thrown in the bin and the bouncers threw him out the door it all happened in the space of about 3 or 4 mins