Ditching the gym staff

floggg

I've been doing resistance training for about a year now, and feel i've outgrown the gym instructor and their pre-made programmes.

I'm trying to come up with my own programme, and want to bounce it past the experts.

Day 1
Chest, shoulders, triceps - 3 x 10 of the following
Bench press
Incline DB press
Shoulder press
Shoudler Shrug
Dips
Skullcrusher

Day 2
Legs, Back, Biceps - 3x 10
Squats
Deadlift
(I had been doing romanian deadlifts - would i better doing the normal deadlift?)
Lat cable Pull down
DB One-arm row
BB Curl
Cable Hammer Curls

Any comments, tips, suggestions, etc. How often should i look to change my workout, and changing up different exercises. Are there certain exercises which i should always include (e.g. squats and deadlifts)? Am i missing anything important?

davyjose

floggg wrote: »

Am i missing anything important?

Not being smart but ... more days?

floggg

davyjose wrote: »

Not being smart but ... more days?

Its a two day split. Twice a week is gen all i can seem to squeeze in between work and other commitments. Maybe three if i dont go back home for the weekend (culchie and proud!)

BossArky

What kind of level are you at with those weights? Bodyweight squat / bench / deadlift or what?

Perhaps consider a 5x5 program. 3 days per week - focus on one of the big lifts each day Squat, Deadlift, then Bench.

For me it is something like this:

Thursday pm - Squat
Saturday am - Bench
Sunday pm - Deadlift

If I had a 4th day I'd throw in Pull ups as the focus of a Tuesday. If possible keep a day between the big three - I cannot at the moment but you might be able to.

For the rest of those three main sessions concentrate on smaller high rep assistance exercises for the bodypart already worked. This means that you are always more or less recovered 'cos a week has passed before hitting a particular exercise hard again.

brianthebard

If you can only twice a week you should probably do a full body programme. I could only go to the gym twice a week and did deads, bench, rows, and front squat on day one, and good morning, back squat, shoulder press, different row/pull down on day two, as well as things like face pulls and pull thrus. (5x5 apart from the assistance stuff). I did make some size and strength gains, although not as many as if training three times a week, but that's what you have to deal with on a two day plan.

floggg

BossArky wrote: »

What kind of level are you at with those weights? Bodyweight squat / bench / deadlift or what?

No, i'm still at fairly low levels tbh. My main focus has been and really still is weight loss. i weigh about 75kg at the min (down from about 100 this time last yr) and am squatting about 70kg, deadlifting 50 and benching 42.5. I could prob deadlift more but my grip is letting me down.

BossArky wrote: »

Perhaps consider a 5x5 program. 3 days per week - focus on one of the big lifts each day Squat, Deadlift, then Bench.

For me it is something like this:

Thursday pm - Squat
Saturday am - Bench
Sunday pm - Deadlift

What are the benefits of the 5 x5 instead of 3 x 10?

BossArky wrote: »

For the rest of those three main sessions concentrate on smaller high rep assistance exercises for the bodypart already worked.

Could you give examples of what you have in mind?

davyjose

floggg wrote: »

Its a two day split. Twice a week is gen all i can seem to squeeze in between work and other commitments. Maybe three if i dont go back home for the weekend (culchie and proud!)

Fair enough. You seem to be cramming a lot in, in fairness to you.

BossArky

I suggested 5x5 as I have found that useful for increasing strength and pushing my lifts up over the past few months.

If weight loss is your goal maybe you could use a 3rd day for outdoor cardio or cycling? (30 minutes jog or 45-60 mins on a bike).

floggg wrote:

Could you give examples of what you have in mind?

Choose a few from the following:

With Squat --> stiff leg deadlift, barbell lunges, calf raises (oly bar on shoulder & heavy), leg press if you want...

With Bench --> db fly, db bench (flat & incline), db pull over, tricep extension, push ups, power clean & press, shoulder press

With Deadlift --> one arm db rows, bent over rows, pull ups, hanging leg raise, good mornings

edit - you will probably want to include abs and biceps in there somewhere.

Pugsley

floggg wrote: »

No, i'm still at fairly low levels tbh. My main focus has been and really still is weight loss. i weigh about 75kg at the min (down from about 100 this time last yr) and am squatting about 70kg, deadlifting 50 and benching 42.5. I could prob deadlift more but my grip is letting me down.

Your squat is quite solid, and your bench isn't too shabbey either, but the deadlift is really lagging, if the grip is the weak link you could try a mixed grip? Worked well for me, used to always be the grip that failed first. A good article on it here, deals with several ways to increase grip strngth: http://stronglifts.com/7-tips-to-improve-your-grip-on-the-deadlift/

Hitting deadlifts and squats on the same day, that would kill me, but if your grip is the weak link on your deadlift shouldn't hurt too much at this stage, when the weights get heavier you will probably want to put them on different days.

floggg

BossArky wrote: »

If weight loss is your goal maybe you could use a 3rd day for outdoor cardio or cycling? (30 minutes jog or 45-60 mins on a bike).

I already do, which is part of my difficulty in doing a third day - I play 5 a side once a week and also try and squeeze in a 50min jog at least once a week.

Transform

2 day program based on what you have outlined would be best structured as follows

Day1

Squat - 20reps for 1 set - increase weight in smallest increment possible every week or second week

Bench press - 8reps for 4 sets

Chin ups - as many as you can for 4 sets (or lat pulldown if your feeling lazy)

Shrugs - 20reps for 2 sets

Barbell curls - 8-10reps for 3sets

Day 2
Deadlift - same as squat or 5 sets of 5

Dips - as many as possible (once you can do more than 10reps start adding weight)

One arm rows - 10reps for 4 sets

Rotator cuff work (L-fly or any other version) - 15reps for 3 sets + Triceps press downs 10reps (done one after the other with little break)

Core work for 10mins at the end of each session and all in that should take no more than an hour - if it is your taking too many breaks.

RPGGAMER

gym staff are a tiresome lot. they dont really care about your goals. and most are not qualified in terms of letters AND fitness/strength etc

you're better off rereading your leaving cert physics book and joining a powerlifting or olympic lifting club.SERiously..

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

Climate Expert

You need to lift heavy and hard as you've only a two day split. If you used to be 100Kg then should have a fair bit of strength in those muscles that you can exploit. Keep adding weight to each exercise till you are only hitting 2-4 reps at the end.

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym

Its no different than the real world. Thats why you need to keep things simple.

ps. WTF is a skullkrusher?

Transform

RPGGAMER wrote: »

gym staff are a tiresome lot. they dont really care about your goals. and most are not qualified in terms of letters AND fitness/strength etc

you're better off rereading your leaving cert physics book and joining a powerlifting or olympic lifting club.SERiously..

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

the advice on THIS forum tends to be quite good actually and there are plenty of over qualified experts here to back that up

Hanley

RPGGAMER wrote: »

you're better off joining a powerlifting or olympic lifting club.SERiously..

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

Hmmmm...... Those two are obviously mutually exclusive so yes??

Because it's not possible that someone who spends a lot of time training would be so passionate about it that they would want to talk about it as well? Online like...

And do tell, what is weightlifting going to do when it comes to adding muscle mass?

mloc

RPGGAMER wrote: »

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

Bollocks, essentially.

floggg

Transform wrote: »

2 day program based on what you have outlined would be best structured as follows

Day1

Squat - 20reps for 1 set - increase weight in smallest increment possible every week or second week

Bench press - 8reps for 4 sets

Chin ups - as many as you can for 4 sets (or lat pulldown if your feeling lazy)

Shrugs - 20reps for 2 sets

Barbell curls - 8-10reps for 3sets

Day 2
Deadlift - same as squat or 5 sets of 5

Dips - as many as possible (once you can do more than 10reps start adding weight)

One arm rows - 10reps for 4 sets

Rotator cuff work (L-fly or any other version) - 15reps for 3 sets + Triceps press downs 10reps (done one after the other with little break)

Core work for 10mins at the end of each session and all in that should take no more than an hour - if it is your taking too many breaks.

From what i've seen both here and elsewhere, i thought chest and triceps should be done on the same day - the bench press etc engages the triceps as a secndary muscle, so they should be grouped together.

If done seperately, i wouldn't really be able to work out two days in a row as i sometimes do, if i am to allow triceps to recover after each.

Also, why do you suggest doing squats in one set of 20. Whats the difference between 1 x 20, 3 x 10 or 5 x 5 as somebody else suggested?

floggg

RPGGAMER wrote: »

gym staff are a tiresome lot. they dont really care about your goals. and most are not qualified in terms of letters AND fitness/strength etc

you're better off rereading your leaving cert physics book and joining a powerlifting or olympic lifting club.SERiously..

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

Surely a biology book would be more useful, no?

And while i obviously realise that you can't trust everything you read on the internet, most of the advice i've read on this forum seems generally to be fairly sensible.

Sangre

RPGGAMER wrote: »

and for the record the getting advice online for training is preposterous. the amount of rubbish advice on forums is UNREAL. anyone who has time for giving online advice usually needs more QUALITY time in the gym.

you're better off rereading your leaving cert physics book and joining a powerlifting or olympic lifting club.SERiously..

Don't listen to advice on the internet, its always stupid.

So anyway, here's my advice...

Roper

floggg wrote: »

I've been doing resistance training for about a year now, and feel i've outgrown the gym instructor and their pre-made programmes.

I'm trying to come up with my own programme, and want to bounce it past the experts.

Day 1
Chest, shoulders, triceps - 3 x 10 of the following
Bench press
Incline DB press
Shoulder press
Shoudler Shrug
Dips
Skullcrusher

Day 2
Legs, Back, Biceps - 3x 10
Squats
Deadlift
(I had been doing romanian deadlifts - would i better doing the normal deadlift?)
Lat cable Pull down
DB One-arm row
BB Curl
Cable Hammer Curls

Any comments, tips, suggestions, etc. How often should i look to change my workout, and changing up different exercises. Are there certain exercises which i should always include (e.g. squats and deadlifts)? Am i missing anything important?

Where are the pull ups? In fact there's a lack of pulling generally. Get rid of that cable pull down and start doing chins and pull ups. If you can't do them, try the assited chin machine, if your gym doesn't have one of them, do the best you can . As regards the mixed grip advice on the deadlift, your grip shouldn't be going at 50kgs enough to use a mixed grip unless you have some hand problem. It's probably technique. Since you're squatting 70kgs you shouldn't be only deadlifting 50kg. Vid what you're doing and put it up, see if people can help.

Hanley,
Weightlifting will get you big and strong, just not AS big and strong as BB or PLing

floggg

Roper wrote: »

Where are the pull ups? In fact there's a lack of pulling generally. Get rid of that cable pull down and start doing chins and pull ups. If you can't do them, try the assited chin machine, if your gym doesn't have one of them, do the best you can . As regards the mixed grip advice on the deadlift, your grip shouldn't be going at 50kgs enough to use a mixed grip unless you have some hand problem. It's probably technique. Since you're squatting 70kgs you shouldn't be only deadlifting 50kg. Vid what you're doing and put it up, see if people can help.

Yea, your right on the pull ups - I was always afraid of looking stupid on the gym floor only managing two or three, but i'll start off on assisted and see how i go from there.

On the deadlift, i only started doing it recently, whereas i've been doing squats for a few months and was doing leg press since i started in the gym. Or should that make a difference at this stage?

Roper

floggg wrote: »

Yea, your right on the pull ups - I was always afraid of looking stupid on the gym floor only managing two or three, but i'll start off on assisted and see how i go from there.

On the deadlift, i only started doing it recently, whereas i've been doing squats for a few months and was doing leg press since i started in the gym. Or should that make a difference at this stage?

Buddy, if you do 2 or 3, you will be 200% or 300% ahead of the vast, vast majority of the gym floor!

For the dead question, I don't know. You should really be pulling more but without seeing technique on that and the squat as well it's hard for anyone to say.

kevpants

The deadlift problem is technique based. It has to be. From your other numbers it's evident you are a lot stronger than that. It would be interesting to see a video.

The thing people often do incorrectly is straight leg deadlift without knowing it. I.e. set up correctly but straighten their knees out without actually getting the weight off the floor. Next time you're doing them try and pay attention to this. As you straighten your legs the weight should rise off the ground otherwise you're wasting a big portion of the movement shifting no weight.

Transform recommended 20 rep squats because 20 consecutive reps will shock your body into becoming stronger and adding more muscle. This is in the squat ONLY. Do not attempt 20 rep Deadlifts or 20 rep benchpresses. It's not the same.

There's a 20 rep squat thread where it's explained if you do a quick search.

Transform

There is no grouping!!!

Its two full body workouts laid out fairly simple really.

I do not buy into the chest/triceps one day next day etc it gets poor results for most and only suitable for those that want to bodybuild and have excellent recovery ability.

At your level just do as outlined and you will get excellent results so long as you focus on adding more iron to that bar, chin, dumbbell etc every week!!

Then after a few months on that you should be back looking for a new program with your increased size and strength.

I gave a similar program (more pairings though) to a client of mine back in september. He was 11.2% body fat and doing the 4 day split thing, switched to 3 days full body and some intervals.

Tested today at 8.2% - strength on everything shot through the roof. He will now go onto a tough 2 day program and a 1 lightish weights day along with the intervals. He is back into clothes he has not worn in ages and finishes his weights like he has gone for a run for an hour - covered in sweat but happy its over.

By the way why is it that the people who look great in the gym tend to train soooo much harder than their 'never get results counterparts' who do a few machines, use cross trainer, chat and spend 15-20mins farting about on a swiss ball and working 'core'???

Can you really blame it on poor instructors or is it just down to - getting the right info and do the bloody hard work in the gym and don't screw it all up when you go to eat. Now i am off to watch the hanley squat vid and read my old copies of hardgainer magazine.

Pugsley

floggg wrote: »

Yea, your right on the pull ups - I was always afraid of looking stupid on the gym floor only managing two or three, but i'll start off on assisted and see how i go from there.

On the deadlift, i only started doing it recently, whereas i've been doing squats for a few months and was doing leg press since i started in the gym. Or should that make a difference at this stage?

If you can do 2 or 3 pull ups now no one would bat an eyelid, lots of people in the gym can't even get half of one, don't worry about what other gym goers think, just concentrate on progress.

As for the deadlift being disproportionally weak compared to your squat, I must ask if your doing full squats? a lot of the squats you see in the gym are half squats, some can be even less, this could give you the impression of a bigger squat than your actually able to do. Good tutorials on the squat and the deadlift can be found here:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Video
Great tutorials for all the fundamental compound lifts there.

mloc

Alot of people seem to be quite self-conscious of doing pull-ups/chins when they are starting off.

I used to be terrible at them, could do maybe one or two. I found setting an overall goal (maybe initially ten) and then trying to them in as little sets as possible, shortening the rest each time, helped. Doing some heavy, wide grip lat pull downs immediately after also helps.

Once I could do the ten easily enough, I moved that to 20, 30 then 50. I can bang out sets of 12 now easily enough with a nice full range of motion and good wide grip. It's all down to just sticking with it and building on what you can do already.

floggg

Pugsley wrote: »

If you can do 2 or 3 pull ups now no one would bat an eyelid, lots of people in the gym can't even get half of one, don't worry about what other gym goers think, just concentrate on progress.

As for the deadlift being disproportionally weak compared to your squat, I must ask if your doing full squats? a lot of the squats you see in the gym are half squats, some can be even less, this could give you the impression of a bigger squat than your actually able to do. Good tutorials on the squat and the deadlift can be found here:
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Video
Great tutorials for all the fundamental compound lifts there.

Maybe you might be right on the squat - i do try and get as near as possible to parallel, but i know im not quite there. I do have a tendancy to jump the gun a bit in terms of progessing weights and sacrifice form as a result sometimes. Next time maybe i'll drop a few kgs off and focus on getting it right.

As for the straight leg deadlift somebody else referred to, I fairly happy that I'm not doing this - i had been when i started out, but i corrected it after realising my mistake.

floggg

Transform wrote: »

There is no grouping!!!

Its two full body workouts laid out fairly simple really.

I do not buy into the chest/triceps one day next day etc it gets poor results for most and only suitable for those that want to bodybuild and have excellent recovery ability.

At your level just do as outlined and you will get excellent results so long as you focus on adding more iron to that bar, chin, dumbbell etc every week!!

Then after a few months on that you should be back looking for a new program with your increased size and strength.

I gave a similar program (more pairings though) to a client of mine back in september. He was 11.2% body fat and doing the 4 day split thing, switched to 3 days full body and some intervals.

Tested today at 8.2% - strength on everything shot through the roof. He will now go onto a tough 2 day program and a 1 lightish weights day along with the intervals. He is back into clothes he has not worn in ages and finishes his weights like he has gone for a run for an hour - covered in sweat but happy its over.

By the way why is it that the people who look great in the gym tend to train soooo much harder than their 'never get results counterparts' who do a few machines, use cross trainer, chat and spend 15-20mins farting about on a swiss ball and working 'core'???

Can you really blame it on poor instructors or is it just down to - getting the right info and do the bloody hard work in the gym and don't screw it all up when you go to eat. Now i am off to watch the hanley squat vid and read my old copies of hardgainer magazine.

So can i take it so that you are one of those fitness instructors to whom i referred to originally. No offense - i wasn't referring to you all, just some of you! But i can spot good advice when i see it!

So do you reckon there would be any problems doing that program one day after the other?

Transform

No but any program done one day after another from time to time is ok.

Its just not ideal.

Oh and a personal trainer NEVER likes to be called a fitness instructor.

Personal trainer = i work on my business so getting results with clients and looking amazing pays my bills

Fitness instructor = they work in the business for someone else so most don't care for results and take their pay every week as they chat to the pretty girls and 'bodybuilder' wanna bees

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

Now i am off to watch the hanley squat vid and read my old copies of hardgainer magazine.

Lol sweet!! It's funny, I'm actually training less frequently now that I had been, but I'm training much harder and seeing better progress. A fair portion of that is down to the fact for the first time ever I'm actually concentrating on putting on weight too tho.

floggg

Transform wrote: »

No but any program done one day after another from time to time is ok.

Its just not ideal.

In that case do you think i should do a three day split/program like BossArky suggested. Its just that wed and thurs and sat and sun are generally the days i can make it to the gym, so its often the case that i do two days in a row (prob every second week)

Also, although i wouldn't necessarily be able to do three days every week, i think it might give a little extra motivation for me to try. Plus, after all the advice i've goten here i'm feeling really motivated to step it up. Its my first day in the gym this week and i'm really pumped up for it!!

Transform wrote: »

Oh and a personal trainer NEVER likes to be called a fitness instructor.

Personal trainer = i work on my business so getting results with clients and looking amazing pays my bills

Fitness instructor = they work in the business for someone else so most don't care for results and take their pay every week as they chat to the pretty girls and 'bodybuilder' wanna bees

Didn't mean any offence - won't happen again.

Pugsley

floggg wrote: »

In that case do you think i should do a three day split/program like BossArky suggested.

You could also do several different full body programs, one day your main compound lift could be the squat, and do your main back work with bend over rows, or something. Or just use workout variations, ie: front squat rather than back squat.

floggg

So here's what I've come up with...

Day 1
Squat - 1 x 20
Straight Leg Dead Lift - 5 x 5
BB Lunges - 5 x 10 (alternating feet)
Calf Raises - 3 x 10
Preacher EZ Bar curl - 5 x 5
Cable Hammer Curl - 3 x 10

Day 2
Bench Press - 5 x 5
DB Pull over - 5 x 5
Incline DB Press - 5 x 5
Dips - as many as I can x 2
Lying BB Tricep Extension - 5 x 5

Day 3
Deadlift - 5 x 5
BB Row - 5 x 5
Assisted Pull Up - 5 x 5
Good Mornings - 5 x 5
Shrugs - 2 x 20
10 mins core work

Comments?