Why doesn't O'Gara bulk up a bit?

Shmuck

would it really kill him to add a bit of muscle to his upper body so he doesn't get brushed off so easily in challenges?

[Jackass]

It's the reason he earned the nickname "Turnstile", but I thought he improved somewhat over the years. I suppose every player has a weakness and his strengths far out weigh them, although he does require a lot of protecting on the pitch sometimes which is a problem.

I think it's down to technique more than anything. He's not very slight or anything but maybe it would do him no harm if he put on a bit of weight. Don't forget his great half berak and stuff too...after all the good he does it would be very harsh to have a moaning session because he had one bad game, which are few and far between.

Chucky the tree

Adding muscle wont make any difference really. It's mainly down to technique.. O'gara is just one of those players who cant tackle for ****, and will never be able too no matter how much training/muscle they try and put on.

phog

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Adding muscle wont make any difference really. It's mainly down to technique.. O'gara is just one of those players who cant tackle for ****, and will never be able too no matter how much training/muscle they try and put on.

Did he not put in good tackles yesterday, I thought he did. I know he was brushed of in 2 but BOD was brushed off in attack and no one seems to have a problem with that.

efb

I say him make two great takes from Cusack upper tier. He cant be, well, Dan Carter...

RugbyFanatic

efb wrote: »

I say him make two great takes from Cusack upper tier. He cant be, well, Dan Carter...

Its funny how different you see games when your in the stand its happened to me before as well.

But no O'Gara was dyer at tackling.

toomevara

Bah, more ant-RoG naffness....the guys fine at current weight, his tackling, while not in the apocalyptic category, is more than adequate, and its inevitable against a team of physical monstrosities like the ABs a burst or two would be made.

He wasn't the only player in green to get skittled by a rampaging kiwi and, to be honest they could all spend the rest of their lives in the Gym and they'd still get embarrassed by the AB's, that's not where the game is ever won or lost...

Great player, model professional and the best we've got by a clear country mile...unless you want him martyring himself like Wilkinson and getting injured every second game, all he needs to do as first up tackler in the ten channel is mildly mither the attacker until a burly centre or back row can get to grips....get off the mans case !!!!

murphym7

toomevara wrote: »

Great player, model professional and the best we've got by a clear country mile...unless you want him martyring himself like Wilkinson and getting injured every second game, all he needs to do as first up tackler in the ten channel is mildly mither the attacker until a burly centre or back row can get to grips....get off the mans case !!!!

Couldn't agree more. There is a balance between bulking up a bit (which he already did a few years back) and being so muscle bound you slow down and become less effective.

ROG did improve defensively a few years back but we have him on the pitch for different reasons (don't think I need to spell these out here).

Serenity Now!

Shmuck wrote: »

would it really kill him to add a bit of muscle to his upper body so he doesn't get brushed off so easily in challenges?

Lets hope you never ever get your foot in the door as a defence or fitness/conditioning coach.

bugler

He's not a great tackler, but he's not so weak that it has ever been a huge problem for Ireland or Munster on a regular basis. He has had a few cringing moments (like when McAlister ran over him for a try in NZ in summer 06) and on Saturday there was one where Cowan handed him off and ROG was off balance and fell over. He's not going to change at this point though. And as far as problems on Saturday went, ROG's tackling was way down the list.

TarfHead

toomevara wrote: »

its inevitable against a team of physical monstrosities like the ABs a burst or two would be made.

According to radio commentary, Dan Carter ripped the ball in contact twice, once from Marcus Horan. And he is a paheka, not a musclebound freak of nature.

Tackling is as much about attitude and beligerence, as about power. When O'Gara goes into contact, he assumes a foetal position, i.e. does not go into contact on his own terms.

jprender

I agree that ROG is fine the way he is.

Everyone has missed the odd tackle down the years (except me) :P

bugler

I don't think it's a case that he's fine (or not). He's not going to change at this stage. He is what he is. His strong points are his kicking and passing (usually), and his weaker points are carrying and tackling.

toomevara

TarfHead wrote: »

And he is a paheka, not a musclebound freak of nature.

Sorry tarf, my babel fish has obviously stopped working....'paheka'..I'm assuming Maori for skinny white guy?

TarfHead

toomevara wrote: »

Sorry tarf, my babel fish has obviously stopped working....'paheka'..I'm assuming Maori for skinny white guy?

Yes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paheka

Shmuck

bugler wrote: »

I don't think it's a case that he's fine (or not). He's not going to change at this stage. He is what he is. His strong points are his kicking and passing (usually), and his weaker points are carrying and tackling.

Admittedly I know nothing about rugby, but while O'Gara is a decent enough penalty kicker, near enough every match I watch him in he spends his time kicking the ball back to the opposition achieving absolutely nothing and wasting possession, allowing the opposition to put pressure back on Ireland.

RugbyFanatic

toomevara wrote: »

Bah, more ant-RoG naffness....the guys fine at current weight, his tackling, while not in the apocalyptic category, is more than adequate, and its inevitable against a team of physical monstrosities like the ABs a burst or two would be made.

So tell me why does he regularly miss tackles against lesser teams as well?

He wasn't the only player in green to get skittled by a rampaging kiwi

Yes but he was one of the few to regularly miss first up tackles.

Great player, model professional and the best we've got by a clear country mile...

:eek:

Our best player? by a country mile?

Surely you can't be serious!

Or do you mean in his position????

Quint

He has no competition. I love Felipe Contipomi, but that's the problem with foreign players in a country with so few heineken cup teams. Not enough Irish players play at the highest level.
Either we want success in europe, or success at international level, but no one wants Johnatan Sexton playing for ireland because he can't make the Leinster team.

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

So tell me why does he regularly miss tackles against lesser teams as well?

Yes but he was one of the few to regularly miss first up tackles.

:eek:

Our best player? by a country mile?
Surely you can't be serious!
Or do you mean in his position????

I suggest you read ROG book and post from some factual basis. In the meantime his exploits in a green shirt (from wiki). Not mentioned here is that he was the top try scorer in the 6Ns in 2007.

This is why he
* O'Gara scored all of Ireland's points in a 17-12 win over the South Africa Springboks at Lansdowne Road on 13 November 2004.

* Two weeks later, on 27 November, O'Gara kicked a last-minute drop goal to give Ireland a 21-19 victory over Argentina. As in the Springboks Test, O'Gara scored all of Ireland's points. O'Gara won the man-of-the-match awards against both South Africa and Argentina.

* O'Gara scored all of Ireland's goals in their 18-9 win over Australia at Lansdowne Road in the Autumn Tests of 2002.

* On 11 February 2007, O'Gara scored the first Irish international try at Croke Park in the Six Nations loss to France.

* On 10 March 2007, O'Gara once again scored all of Ireland's points to win the Triple Crown at Murrayfield, Edinburgh versus Scotland by 19-18.

* On 24 August 2007, in Ireland's final 2007 Rugby World Cup warm-up against Italy at Ravenhill in Belfast, O'Gara scored and converted a controversial try nine minutes into stoppage time, winning the match 23-20 after Italy had taken the lead with a stoppage-time try. O'Gara finished the match with 18 points.

* On 19 January 2008 O'Gara captained Munster to beat the London Wasps in their final pool match of the 2008 Heineken Cup, knocking the incumbent champions out and making it through to quarter finals of the cup for the tenth consecutive season. (Danny Cipriani who can do everything was Wasp's outhalf).

* On 9 February 2008, O'Gara became the eighth player in history to score 800 Test points, reaching the mark in Ireland's loss to France in the Six Nations.

For someone who is so limited, he does do a bit right.

murphym7

Before the ROG bashers get carried away with themselves have a look at the facts.

The Six Nations' top points scorer during the 2005, 2006 and 2007 seasons and also the holder of the Heineken Cup's points-scoring record.

1997-present Munster 1203 points
2000-present Ireland 833 (14 tries by the way)

Tackling may be flawed but taking evrything into account I would still rate him highly.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Not mentioned here is that he was the top try scorer in the 6Ns in 2007.



This is why he
* O'Gara scored all of Ireland's points in a 17-12 win over the South Africa Springboks at Lansdowne Road on 13 November 2004

* Two weeks later, on 27 November, O'Gara kicked a last-minute drop goal to give Ireland a 21-19 victory over Argentina. As in the Springboks Test, O'Gara scored all of Ireland's points. O'Gara won the man-of-the-match awards against both South Africa and Argentina.

* O'Gara scored all of Ireland's goals in their 18-9 win over Australia at Lansdowne Road in the Autumn Tests of 2002.

* On 11 February 2007, O'Gara scored the first Irish international try at Croke Park in the Six Nations loss to France.

* On 10 March 2007, O'Gara once again scored all of Ireland's points to win the Triple Crown at Murrayfield, Edinburgh versus Scotland by 19-18.

* On 24 August 2007, in Ireland's final 2007 Rugby World Cup warm-up against Italy at Ravenhill in Belfast, O'Gara scored and converted a controversial try nine minutes into stoppage time, winning the match 23-20 after Italy had taken the lead with a stoppage-time try. O'Gara finished the match with 18 points.

* On 19 January 2008 O'Gara captained Munster to beat the London Wasps in their final pool match of the 2008 Heineken Cup, knocking the incumbent champions out and making it through to quarter finals of the cup for the tenth consecutive season. (Danny Cipriani who can do everything was Wasp's outhalf).

* On 9 February 2008, O'Gara became the eighth player in history to score 800 Test points, reaching the mark in Ireland's loss to France in the Six Nations.

For someone who is so limited, he does do a bit right.

You can point to one off games as much as you want it still doesnt change the fact that he is not consistent and nowhere near one of the top outhalves playing in world rugby today

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

You can point to one off games as much as you want it still doesnt change the fact that he is not consistent and nowhere near one of the top outhalves playing in world rugby today

O'Gara is the all-time top points scorer in the Heineken Cup. Not many outhalfs have 2 HCup medals playing at outhalf (and he would have played all the games to get there which suggests some consistency).

He is ranked 8th in the world as all-time top points scorer (Ireland is ranked 8th in the world) would suggest otherwise.

anonymous_joe

World Cup 2007 - RoG's finest hour...

I'm not disputing his talent, but he's bottled it internationally more than once.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

World Cup 2007 - RoG's finest hour...

I'm not disputing his talent, but he's bottled it internationally more than once.

Don't you mean Irish team's finest hour? In that case, everyone of the Irish team 'bottled' it more than once!

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Don't you mean Irish team's finest hour? In that case, everyone of the Irish team 'bottled' it more than once!

ROG particularly was absolutely woeful.

And yes he is HEC all time point scorer but then again how many outhalves have played for the last 9 years for one of the most successful HEC teams? Of course in that instance as outhalf he will come out on top.

jdivision

As a matter of interest do rugby players get thought to bring their arm up to stop being handed off by a player with the ball, I'm not surprised Nonu was able to do it with him as he had very little warning before the imapct but for the other one it looked like poor technique. Not bashing O'Gara, just curious.

twinytwo

efb wrote: »

I say him make two great takes from Cusack upper tier. He cant be, well, Dan Carter...

seriously he was very poor.. apart form one line break.. i mean no wind and he misses 3 2 of which were sitters

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

ROG particularly was absolutely woeful.

And yes he is HEC all time point scorer but then again how many outhalves have played for the last 9 years for one of the most successful HEC teams? Of course in that instance as outhalf he will come out on top.

You should also bear in mind that when ROG started playing for Toulouse v. Munster, the chat in the dressing room at half time was to try and keep the score below 50. They didn't. Two years later, ROG as a 20 year old was the outhalf in a Heneken Cup final. Sexton, O'Connor & Co. can hardly get a game in the Magners League. Keatley had to move to Connacht to get a game.

ROG still has to kick his points and he has done so consistently over the last 10 years.

btw, Dan Carter is playing for a very good team. Does that mean he is not as good as everyone makes out he is?

Goodluck2me

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Adding muscle wont make any difference really. It's mainly down to technique.. O'gara is just one of those players who cant tackle for ****, and will never be able too no matter how much training/muscle they try and put on.

It's technique and attitude, if it was about muscle, scrum halves would never make a tackle on a second row etc.

When you're up for a tackle you do things better, and more efficiently, when you're half-assed you make mistakes and often get injured too.

Chucky the tree

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

You can point to one off games as much as you want it still doesnt change the fact that he is not consistent and nowhere near one of the top outhalves playing in world rugby today

No Irish player is currently at a world class level. So why dont they come in for the same abuse ROG has?

Even when BOD seemed to be spending more time in McDonalds then on the training field he didnt seem to get the kind of stick ROG has/does get. BOD got alot more sympathy for his awful performances and how he "deserved a break/some rest etc etc".

ROG mightnt be world class, but he's still the best outhalf we have by a country mile and is one of the first players names to be put on a team sheet.

louthandproud

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No Irish player is currently at a world class level. So why dont they come in for the same abuse ROG has?

Even when BOD seemed to be spending more time in McDonalds then on the training field he didnt seem to get the kind of stick ROG has/does get. BOD got alot more sympathy for his awful performances and how he "deserved a break/some rest etc etc".

ROG mightnt be world class, but he's still the best outhalf we have by a country mile and is one of the first players names to be put on a team sheet.

Plus one, very unfair(nay nasty) to single out O'Gara, the guy has been a great servant, of course he has has played badly at times too, hasn't everyone in the Irish set-up in the last year particularly. Our best out half by a country mile...

murphym7

louthandproud wrote: »

Plus one, very unfair(nay nasty) to single out O'Gara, the guy has been a great servant, of course he has has played badly at times too, hasn't everyone in the Irish set-up in the last year particularly. Our best out half by a country mile...

Exactly. Can we put this to bed now and leave the fella alone?

Tim Robbins

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

You can point to one off games as much as you want it still doesnt change the fact that he is not consistent and nowhere near one of the top outhalves playing in world rugby today

O'Gara is a good international player and in the top 10 in the world for his position. For an Irish player that's a great achievement. Considering our next best out halfs would be doing well to make the top 50.

He's not world class. He's kicking and passing are excellent, his ball carrying is ok and his tackling is a weak spot.

Most world class 10's are good at tackling and this is why they are comfortable slotting into 12, not just 10.

O'gara will always look better at H Cup where his pack are usually on the front foot and the overall game is not the same standard as international level.

toomevara

Tim Robbins wrote: »

He's not world class. He's kicking and passing are excellent, his ball carrying is ok and his tackling is a weak spot.

Actually, I reckon he is world class, and we're damn lucky to have him. OK, he may not be up there with the Carters and Giteau's of this world but he's damn close. (I'd like to see what he'd do with the AB 3/4 line outside him i.e. guys who can come from depth, on angles and understand how to break/confound a defensive line, not the type of braindead dross we witnessed at Croker at the weekend).

The guy has proved he can cut it at the very highest level internationally and has two heineken cups under his belt....come on, give him some credit..Yep he can have a bad day, and even suffer a loss of form (shock, horror..he isn't a machine! gasp...who knew?)

..but he is one of the top 10's in the world..therefore, by extension world class in anyone's books but those of a small and select group of his own countrymen. 'Tis indeed the case that a man can never be a prophet in his own country and nowhere is this more true than begrudgery central..oops sorry, Ireland.

jam_on_toast

toomevara wrote: »

The guy has proved he can cut it at the very highest level internationally and has two heineken cups under his belt....come on, give him some credit..Yep he can have a bad day, and even suffer a loss of form (shock, horror..he isn't a machine! gasp...who knew?)

The very highest level internationally is the world cup, followed by SH test matches and Lions tours.

All of these he has struggled badly with. Went on two lions tours, was 3rd choice OH on each.

On another point, people are saying one of his best aspects is his passing. This is no good if you dont have the vision to use it, he is not very good at bringing other people into the game around him. Something the Irish backline has been missing since humphries left the team. when under pressure, his first instinct is to kick the ball away.

Also, being in the top 10 OH's of the world aint that great. We are the 8 best team apparently, so it makes sense he should be in the top 10.

toomevara

jam_on_toast wrote: »

Also, being in the top 10 OH's of the world aint that great. We are the 8 best team apparently, so it makes sense he should be in the top 10.

Point of info Jam. If you have a butchers at me post you'll see I didn't say he's in the top ten OH's I said he's one of the top tens in the game. For me he's prob 4th or 5th, now that is world class in anyones book.

thehighground

jam_on_toast wrote: »

The very highest level internationally is the world cup, followed by SH test matches and Lions tours.

All of these he has struggled badly with. Went on two lions tours, was 3rd choice OH on each.

On another point, people are saying one of his best aspects is his passing. This is no good if you dont have the vision to use it, he is not very good at bringing other people into the game around him. Something the Irish backline has been missing since humphries left the team. when under pressure, his first instinct is to kick the ball away.

Also, being in the top 10 OH's of the world aint that great. We are the 8 best team apparently, so it makes sense he should be in the top 10.

He was taken pretty well out of the Lions Tour in 2001 very early - interesting that he was targetted tbh. The 2005 tour was just a disaster. In everyway.

jam_on_toast

toomevara wrote: »

Point of info Jam. If you have a butchers at me post you'll see I didn't say he's in the top ten OH's I said he's one of the top tens in the game. For me he's prob 4th or 5th, now that is world class in anyones book.

Firstly, no need for the aggression, i aint looking for a fight. This is a board for opinions and thats what i've given.

sorry, the top 10 thing wasnt mentioned with regards to you. I saw it somewhere else in the thread.

With regards to peoples rating on these things, its all a matter of opinion, especially with outhalves as a lot of people have different views of what a 10's key qualities should be. For me, i'd have him somewhere from top 6-10 off the top of my head, from players i've seen on the intl stage. I'm not saying he is a bad player. I just think his weaknesses are being exploited in alot of big games recently. Personally, the only world class OH's out there are carter and wilkinson(when fit, once every 4 years it seems) and potentially giteau & hernandez.

toomevara

jam_on_toast wrote: »

Firstly, no need for the aggression, i aint looking for a fight. This is a board for opinions and thats what i've given.

Ummm, no aggression at all there Jam, apologies if you've taken it that way, just a point of info. No bother.

redroar1942

jam_on_toast wrote: »

Firstly, no need for the aggression, i aint looking for a fight. This is a board for opinions and thats what i've given.
QUOTE]


Do you want a kleenex ?

Crash

Unnecessary redroar. keep it civil, don't try and goad other posters.

murphym7

Bored of the assasination now.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm. Was talking to a friend about the whole O'Gara shenanigans...

Let's look at it this way:

Ronan O'Gara is talented. He's been an international outhalf for 10 or so years at this stage. No-one in Ireland is ever going to deny that.

Given our position as the 8th team in the world, a relatively artifical status, but one that will do, we should have amongst the world's better players in most positions.

Currently, our strengths would appear to be exceptional full backs (Murphy, Kearney) one exceptional centre in O'Driscoll and one exceptional out half in O'Gara. Of all our other players, the vast majority of our players are very good internationals, but would not stand out from the equally talented players elsewhere.

O'Gara is a superb kicker from hand, he's a good technical passer, though he lacks the creative vision of Carter's Hook's and so on. His obvious weakness is his tackling, and his general physical presence.

Now, take the game on Saturday, he was behind what was almost the entire Munster pack. Whether one agrees with that or not is irrelevant, that's what he played behind. He had O'Leary feeding him the ball, so again, nothing new there.

The only thing different to his normal set up is what was behind him - O'Driscoll and Fitzgerald. Now given the glowing reports Fitzgerald got in the New Zealand press, not to mention the grudging respect for O'Driscoll's commitment and attempts to step up to the game, there is absolutely no room for questioning the talent of the two centres. What could be talked about is their style - if O'Gara needs heavy physical runners like Mafi and Tipoki behind him, then we may as well drop him every time we play a physical team. He had great centres behind him, that's not a viable excuse.

This leads on to why he's being criticised - of all positions, outhalf is not only one of the most crucial, but also, one of the most visible. Everyone in the world saw O'Gara play shíte on Saturday. Now he was up against the best team in the world, which is one hell of an excuse, but given how important the outhalf is in bringing your backs into the game, his performance hamstrung our own efforts, rendering the potential threat of BOD and Fitzgerald almost null and void.

What makes him look so bad is his own talent. Everyone in Ireland knows he's good, everyone complaining here knows he's good. That's why they're unhappy - he was poor in the WC and poor on Saturday. He was not alone in this, but given his visability and importance, it showed up so much more.

Kidney will definitely need to work on protecting O'Gara in future games, because he remains an easy player to target. That's not his fault per sé, it's just the player he is.

Tim Robbins

toomevara wrote: »

Actually, I reckon he is world class, and we're damn lucky to have him. OK, he may not be up there with the Carters and Giteau's of this world but he's damn close. (I'd like to see what he'd do with the AB 3/4 line outside him i.e. guys who can come from depth, on angles and understand how to break/confound a defensive line, not the type of braindead dross we witnessed at Croker at the weekend).

If he was World class he would be up there with the Carters and Giteau's.
Don't know what you mean by "world class"? I take that to mean the best in the world.

The guy has proved he can cut it at the very highest level internationally and has two heineken cups under his belt....come on, give him some credit..Yep he can have a bad day, and even suffer a loss of form (shock, horror..he isn't a machine! gasp...who knew?)

Heineken Cup isn't world class. If it was, then Trevor Brennan And Geordan Murphy would also be World class, as they also have both won two H Cups.

..but he is one of the top 10's in the world..therefore, by extension world class in anyone's books but those of a small and select group of his own countrymen.

Agree he's top 10, but top 10 is not world class. Top 3 or 4 is, who are usually at a higher level than the next level.

Top 10 is good international player.

toomevara

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Agree he's top 10, but top 10 is not world class. Top 3 or 4 is, who are usually at a higher level than the next level.

Top 10 is good international player.

Arghhhh, Tim please read my post..I didn't say he was in the top ten, I said he was one of the top tens in the world....

Geordan Murphy is, was and always will be world class (surely one of the most naturally talented players of his generation) but that's another days debate.

My last word on this with regard to ROG,because this is getting circular, is that he is indisputably a world class player i.e. he can hold his own among the best players of the established nations in one of the most demanding positions on a union pitch....thats my definition of world class, and thats good enough for me.

RugbyFanatic

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hmmm. Was talking to a friend about the whole O'Gara shenanigans...

Let's look at it this way:

Ronan O'Gara is talented. He's been an international outhalf for 10 or so years at this stage. No-one in Ireland is ever going to deny that.

Given our position as the 8th team in the world, a relatively artifical status, but one that will do, we should have amongst the world's better players in most positions.

Currently, our strengths would appear to be exceptional full backs (Murphy, Kearney) one exceptional centre in O'Driscoll and one exceptional out half in O'Gara. Of all our other players, the vast majority of our players are very good internationals, but would not stand out from the equally talented players elsewhere.

O'Gara is a superb kicker from hand, he's a good technical passer, though he lacks the creative vision of Carter's Hook's and so on. His obvious weakness is his tackling, and his general physical presence.

Now, take the game on Saturday, he was behind what was almost the entire Munster pack. Whether one agrees with that or not is irrelevant, that's what he played behind. He had O'Leary feeding him the ball, so again, nothing new there.

The only thing different to his normal set up is what was behind him - O'Driscoll and Fitzgerald. Now given the glowing reports Fitzgerald got in the New Zealand press, not to mention the grudging respect for O'Driscoll's commitment and attempts to step up to the game, there is absolutely no room for questioning the talent of the two centres. What could be talked about is their style - if O'Gara needs heavy physical runners like Mafi and Tipoki behind him, then we may as well drop him every time we play a physical team. He had great centres behind him, that's not a viable excuse.

This leads on to why he's being criticised - of all positions, outhalf is not only one of the most crucial, but also, one of the most visible. Everyone in the world saw O'Gara play shíte on Saturday. Now he was up against the best team in the world, which is one hell of an excuse, but given how important the outhalf is in bringing your backs into the game, his performance hamstrung our own efforts, rendering the potential threat of BOD and Fitzgerald almost null and void.

What makes him look so bad is his own talent. Everyone in Ireland knows he's good, everyone complaining here knows he's good. That's why they're unhappy - he was poor in the WC and poor on Saturday. He was not alone in this, but given his visability and importance, it showed up so much more.

Kidney will definitely need to work on protecting O'Gara in future games, because he remains an easy player to target. That's not his fault per sé, it's just the player he is.

good post

RugbyFanatic

toomevara wrote: »

My last word on this with regard to ROG,because this is getting circular, is that he is indisputably a world class player i.e. he can hold his own among the best players of the established nations in one of the most demanding positions on a union pitch....thats my definition of world class, and thats good enough for me.

World class would be doing that consistently, O'Gara simply doesnt do that.

He is probably the 8th or 9th best flyhalf in the game which isn't world class considering how few nations in world rugby are able to churn out world class players.

louthandproud

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

World class would be doing that consistently, O'Gara simply doesnt do that.

He is probably the 8th or 9th best flyhalf in the game which isn't world class considering how few nations in world rugby are able to churn out world class players.

MEH

Chucky the tree

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

World class would be doing that consistently, O'Gara simply doesnt do that.

He is probably the 8th or 9th best flyhalf in the game which isn't world class considering how few nations in world rugby are able to churn out world class players.

So he's not world class? Why are you picking out the other 14 players that played on saturday for not being world class? We dont have any world clas players in our team, I dont see why ROG should be shot for not being world class.

RugbyFanatic

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So he's not world class? Why are you picking out the other 14 players that played on saturday for not being world class?

Because this discussion is about O'Gara

smog

Quint wrote: »

He has no competition. I love Felipe Contipomi, but that's the problem with foreign players in a country with so few heineken cup teams. Not enough Irish players play at the highest level.
Either we want success in europe, or success at international level, but no one wants Johnatan Sexton playing for ireland because he can't make the Leinster team.

And look at how much contepomi has beefed/bulked up this season. which brings back the OP's question