Stalin or Hitler - Who was worse?

motherfunker

At least Hitler had the balls to go for world domination, Stalin just murdered his own people then capitalised on Hitlers fcuk ups.

asdasd

Stalin!

asdasd

No, Hitler!

Morlar

If you mean in terms of numbers of people killed then Stalin. Plus he was in power for a lot longer and got away with it to the end.

motherfunker

Not just numbers. Who was the biggest bas*ard?

marcsignal

stalin

Lockstep

I'd say Hitler as while Stalin did indeed kill more, it was over a longer time period.

A Primal Nut

Yes because amount of people killed is a true indication of how evil someone is.:rolleyes:

They both intended to kill lots of people - its not like either would have stopped at a certain amount and went "i think i've killed enough now." It just so happened, that statistically, stalin killed more.

However, I'd say Stalin was more straight out evil; whereas Hitler was more motivated by a definite purpose, rather than just power for the sake of it. Plus, he was a vegetarian and his best friend in World War I was a dog. :rolleyes: Seriously though, he probably had some kind of twisted moral values in his own head, and thought what he was doing was right. Whereas Stalin knew he himself was an evil bastard. Someone told me of a deathbed quote where he said he knew he was going to hell or something. Also the "he couldn't even shoot himself" quote after his son tried to kill himself is fairly chilling.

However, at least Stalin confined himself to the USSR and didn't try to take over the world.

Lockstep

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Yes because amount of people killed is a true indication of how evil someone is.:rolleyes:

Not really.

Given that Hitler's killings were far more about extermination.

Latchy

Stalin without a doubt .Beside having millions of innocents killed he pulled the wool over churchil and roosevelt enabling the russin to occupy more eastern block countries which later allowed putting up the berlin wall .

Queen-Mise

Arguments could really be made for both. Comparisons are hard because their motivations were very different.

Hitler was brilliant and also very evil. he systematically tried to destroy the Jews and a number of different ethnic groups in Europe and was leading a relatively successful war also until the americians began to get involved. There is a very different level of cruelty in Hitler though, some of his experiments, are beyond description.

whereas Stalin in a way, fell into power, Trotsky (i think) resigned in all his innocence and Stalin, well the way was open. His five year plans in the short term killed many but then once set up saved lives.
Stalin was a classic case of killing all your oponents, although this got worse as he got more paranoid in his later years.

RichTea

Cannot possibly compare evilness between two individuals. All you can say is that the two of them were two of the sickest, most twisted and evil people to ever walk the face of the earth!

Latchy

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/11/10/nosplit/bvtvlaurence-rees-1011.xml




This is the latest series by Laurence Rees, the producer responsible for the landmark 2005 series Auschwitz. Over six parts, it examines the uneasy diplomatic alliances between the great powers during the Second World War, much of which is based on fresh information uncovered in Russian and Western archives. The first episode describes how the Non-Aggression Pact between the USSR and Germany made them allies in all but name. In reality, they became partners in crime. After the German invasion of Poland, 600,000 Soviet troops invaded from the east and the Soviet NKVD subsequently murdered 6,311 Polish officers. The production relies heavily on dramatisations, but nonetheless gives a valuable insight into a less familiar area of modern history.

Queen-Mise

RichTea wrote: »

All you can say is that the two of them were two of the sickest, most twisted and evil people to ever walk the face of the earth!

I don't think you could say that now. They are a whole list of other contenders out there.

Pol Pot in Vietnam.
what was the name of Chinese dictator, was in power for more than 50 years, he is credited for having killed more of his own people than Stalin & Hitler put together.
And that is before you start looking at the actions of governments.
Was the irish famine a genocide by the english government?
What about what is happening in the third world at the moment, they are many genocides going on, Rwanda/Darfur. More importantly for me, do the actions of the G8 countries, indirectly cause famine & global warming, if so, how many deaths are they responsible for?

I find the actions of our modern western governments just as reprehensible, if not more so, because they have themselves convinced that they are doing the right thing.

I apologize in advance for any name/country errors in the above, brain not awake.

Pat Mustard

What about Mao Tse Tung? He killed tens of millions of his own people with his Great Leap Forward.

Pol Pot was in Cambodia btw.

TerrorFirmer

Hitler was at least based around some notions of order and advancement, regardless of how evil those notions were. i.e the expansion of Germany, extermination of certain groups deemed of no importance to the state - gypsies, jews, slavs from the seized territories, the mentally disabled, etc. The goal was to create a strong, powerful nation. Whereas Stalin was just plagued by paranoid, killing and murdering left right and center wherever he saw even the slightest hint of non-conformity, let alone defeatism or betrayal. It was entirely common for high ranking generals to be shot for daring to disagree with Stalin's outrageously misinformed military decisions. I was reading a book the last day about the evolution of the T34 and a man who said that Stalin's decision to initially mount 107mm cannon instead of 76mm - an entirely logical one supported by extensive trials - was a poor one was arrested and executed.

marcsignal

RichTea wrote: »

All you can say is that the two of them were two of the sickest, most twisted and evil people to ever walk the face of the earth!

what about Louis Walsh ??

....sorry couldn't resist that one

marcsignal

i think where Stalin was scary in outwright barbarity, what added to Adolf's scariness was his occultist leanings, and the fact he had a lot of sinister individuals around him like Himmler, Heydrich, Kaltenbrunner and Bormann etc who had a high enough head count on their own.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

440Hz

The Scientist wrote: »

If it was a question of who was worse, The Wehrmacht or the Red Army, the Soviets would win hands down.

+1 on all that post, nicely put. Particularly agree with the last point. I think the Russian atrocities were far worse than the Germans, especially Berlin 1945.

There are a few things about Stalin that would make me lean towards him being worse but I think it's a very tight call. Erasing people's faces from images in order to pretend they never existed is extremely sadistic, for example. As meglomaniacs go I think they would win joint first prize but if I really had to choose I'd probably say Stalin was worse. A lot Nazi atrocities can be attributed to other prominent generals of course, not just Hitler. Whereas in Russia it was pretty much all Stalin (in general).

TerrorFirmer

440Hz wrote: »

+1 on all that post, nicely put. Particularly agree with the last point. I think the Russian atrocities were far worse than the Germans, especially Berlin 1945.

I don't think that's necessarily true. The Red Army was responsible for a great many atrocities but a great proportion of them were what can be considered 'revenge' killings. Not that it makes it right, naturally, and the Red Army was responsible for a disproportionate amount of sexual assault, but the difference was that Nazi ideology indoctrinated men (especially the SS) to kill 'inferior' races and minorities without question whereas the Red Army was inherently humane in that regard. If you read into most of the atrocities committed by the Soviets, the vast majority of them fall under shooting prisoners out of hand, or sexual assault - the latter of which is not quite as serious in the context of the much greater war crimes ongoing throughout 39-45. Whereas the Germans - primarily the SS but also the Wehrmacht - are guilty of burning homes, indiscriminately killing civilians, mass executions, and so on. These were strategic war aims rather then emotional responses, and that's the primary difference between the German and Soviet armies. If you ask about 'why' these crimes were committed rather then who committed them, the Germans are tainted far worse. The plan was, even before the invasion of the SU, to reduce the population there in the western regions by some 20-30 million, and force many more into exile and probably death further east. In theaters where the fighting was more conventional (Against Japan, Finland, etc), The Soviet Army was, collectively, quite well behaved in comparison to the Eastern Front with Germany.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

dennistuam

The Scientist wrote: »

I guess that boils down to opinion as to whether you think the the gassing of 6 million Jews/minorites was worse than the the brutal rape of up to 15 million women between the ages of 10 and 80.

Yes, the Nazis were indoctrinated to Kill, but they weren't indoctrinated to Rape and personally speaking, i find the mass sexual violation of young and old women far worse than the gas chamber or a bullet to the head.

as stalin said about the mass rape in berlin and budapest which was an ally of mr hitler

who could blame a solder who has marchED thousands of miles from his homeland for stealing a bit of trifle and having fun with the girls


or on another occasion

THE DEATH OF ONE PERSON IS A TRAGETY BUT THE DEATH OF MILLIONS IS A STATISIC


I THINK THAT SAYS IT ALL


THERE IS A THEORY THAT HITLER AND LOT OF HIS CREW WERE JEWISH BUT KEEP IT SECRET

WHAT WOULD HITLER HAVE DONE WITH IRISH PEOPLE WERE WE SUB MENSCH

motherfunker

dennistuam wrote: »

as stalin said about the mass rape in berlin and budapest which was an ally of mr hitler

The Russians dident just rape women in Berlin or Budapest, they actually started raping women inside Russian territory, raping Russian women they had just liberated.

dennistuam

yes your right mother but he classed all russians that was captured by the germans as traitors or weak ,basically they could not be trusted they were brainwashed
it is also on record women from concentration camps were raped
also on a bbc program about the war recently a german woman told how there village was one of the first german villages taking over.basically the father of the house was taking out for an hour, when he came back he cried out the russians were worst than animals, he was raped by the russians

Dinter

I think the award has to go to Stalin. It's nothing to do with the numbers killed, raped, deported, tortured etc though as tbh I don't want to go down Stalin's road of a million deaths as a statistic. Basically it's to do with comparing the two power structures.

On the one hand you've the Nazis. A band of extremely capable, precise nutcases who were given free rein to do whatever the hell they liked as long as it turned a profit. They rarely had to seek authoritisation for their acts despite their tearful "we were only obeying orders" tripe at Nuremberg. Faceless bureaucrats planned, implemented and carried out the Final Solution for example. Sure Hitler rubber stamped it but it was still very much in hand already. Einsatzkommandos roamed freely around conquered territories bullying and executing anyone they didn't like the look of. Himmler, Hess and Goering to name a few were quite entitled to implement massacres at a local level as evidenced by the reprisals after Reinhard Heydrich.

On the other hand you've the Russians under Stalin where independent thought was a one way ticket to an executioners bullet.

Mahatma coat

this is like the inverse of the

Daddy or Chips

Question

97i9y3941

yup stalin must get the award,although hes still reviered in russia,stalin would get the evil award too,one of his sons was captured by the nazis during the war and held in the camp,stalin considered him a traitor for getting caught,he was ment to had died trying to escape,anyone that complained to stalin about their prison sentence had it extended,same with many of the people after the war who where still in camps had their sentences extended,people captured by the british where commiting suicide than rather be sent back into stalins hands.he supposed to had also had sent his daughter in law to the camps,a person who was affected by all these deportations was future president gorbachev,his grandfather was sent to the gulags.

Mao the unknown story has divided scholars/historians,it is generally accepted that 70 million people died under his rule,he was also a cruel man and not surpriseing the book itself is banned in china

Pol pot was another person who escaped justice,having died of heart attack under house arrest in 1998.