Newgate Centre gets go ahead

KingLoser

KRM were on WLRFM this morning talking about it.

I have no official links, because the only people who recieved info are interested parties.

But yeah, Pleanála approved it. Can't wait for the fookin traffic!

Sully

Excellent news!

savic04

thank god
the city needs a bit of life and quick..

i work in the city centre and its a ghosttown most days

Mr Ed

Hallelujah, finally a bit of progress in the city.

Hopefully its full steam ahead or is their any opportunity now for further objections?

ziedth

I'm not familiar with this lads what Development is it?
Or is it the one thats suppose to be in newstreet carpark?

As I mentioned a couple of times I Manage a Shop on steven street if it would bring a bit of life up this way i'll be happy as larry.

I agree with savic04 The footfall around is just awful these days, More people seem to be in the carpark by TK Maxx

KingLoser

Mr Ed wrote: »

Hopefully its full steam ahead or is their any opportunity now for further objections?

Nope, this is the final call. No more objections to be made.

I'm not familiar with this lads what Development is it?
Or is it the one thats suppose to be in newstreet carpark?

Yup, that's the one. All the way up to Stephen St.

Sully

About time but i suppose good things take time. Any idea what the final plan that was accepted is? Hopefully they wont hold back the development now that times are tough.

ziedth

Ya great news,

Like sully said hopefully they go the whole hog now. Could really do with a Tesco 24hr or some novelty to Draw in the crowds,

Any Idea what kind of ETA it would be?

shanemul

Brilliant news more shops finally. RTE also confirming it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1113/waterford.html

deisemum

That's great news.

As we're in recession this could be a good time to build the centre as it will give employment to a lot in the construction industry, the developers will benefit financially as they'll be much better able to negociate for cheaper construction.

Same thing happened back in the 80's (think it was then) when the developer that build either Blanchardstown or mayby Liffey Valley built by keeping on his building crews.

Daysha

For those of you unaware of the project: http://www.newgatecentre.com

Really does look excellent. Hopefully it will give the boost the city centre needs

ziedth

I was just looking at the plans it real does seem like its what the City centre needs,

I feel for the residents beside it a little bit with the traffic issue but its really for the greater good. If something like this didn't happen I could have seen alot of places going under around town in the future.

KingLoser

About the traffic issue, whilst I do sympathise with the locals somewhat.. I'm forced to wonder what exactly they expect living in the city centre?

If they want traffic-free living, shouldn't they be living in the suburbs like everyone else?

Asmodean

This has made my day.. Fantastic news, and not a moment too soon! Had my doubts about the city centres survival to be honest but this is just the injection it needs. The plans look fantastic!:D

fricatus

This is of course terrific news, but...

- There's a massive shopping centre already built and practically ready to go in Ferrybank. What's going to happen there?

- Remember, there's a huge crisis in the banking sector, leading to very little money being lent out at present. Can KRM raise finance for this now? On the other hand, this is just what the economy locally needs: two years' worth of construction jobs.

I really hope they can get going on this now. The credit crunch won't last forever, so it would be good to have this in place for when the upturn comes.

Bards

Press Release

An Bord Pleanála approval clears way for €280m Waterford project

KRM Construction Partnership has welcomed the decision by An Bord Pleanála to uphold the granting of planning permission by Waterford City Council in July 2007 for a €280m mixed-use development on a 5.1-acre site which borders Michael Street, New Street, Stephen Street and Brown’s Lane in the centre of Waterford.

Waterford City Council granted planning permission for the development on July 2, 2007 subject to 33 conditions, some of which have now been revised by the planning appeals board. In addition to 50-plus retail outlets, the project includes a 107-bedroom four star hotel with a substantial conference centre and leisure facilities; arts, cultural and community facilities and underground parking for over 600 vehicles. 28 city centre homes are also included, as is a rooftop viewing area that will offer unrivalled panoramic views of Waterford.

Welcoming the An Bord Pleanála decision, Paul Miskella, CEO, KRM Construction Partnership said that it cleared the way for work to begin on the project which is seen as hugely important to revitalising Waterford city centre and underpinning the city’s status as gateway to the southeast.

“I know that I also speak for the southeast businessmen behind this scheme - Dan Kickham and Ciaran Redmond - when I say how delighted we are with this outcome to the planning appeals process which vindicates our own plans but also Waterford City Council’s decision to approve those plans over 16 months ago after very careful consideration and analysis,” he remarked.

For his part, Dan Kickham of the Enniscorthy-based DKG Group said: “We’ve had a long journey through the planning process and the current application was lodged with Waterford City Council almost two years ago in December 2006.

“As well as the extensive public consultation we engaged in prior to making that application, we have also continued to work with various interested parties – both supporters and those with concerns – through the intervening period. The oral hearing held by An Bord Pleanála over three days in November 2007 provided a further useful opportunity for arguments in favour of and against aspects of the scheme to be aired before an independent third-party.

“Throughout this process, we have been encouraged by the level of support we have received in Waterford and by the appetite that clearly exists across the community there for the type of large-scale development that can attract big name retailers and large numbers of shoppers and visitors to the city centre which, I think it is generally agreed, is in need of significant regeneration to respond to currently unmet demand and to allow Waterford take its rightful place in Ireland’s retail hierarchy alongside the other major cities.”

Mr Kickham’s partner on the project, Ciaran Redmond of Bunclody-based Redmond Civil Engineering (RCE) added, “The outcome from An Bord Pleanála now allows us move ahead with our plans for site clearance and construction and we will obviously be engaging in a considerable public information and community liaison campaign as we do this in what we are very conscious of being such an important city centre location. We can also now proceed to the next stage of our negotiations with various potential tenants for the retail element of the project as well as discussions with hotel operators and management companies.”

Mr Redmond who is also involved in developing the championship level Bunclody Golf & Fishing Club which is due to open in March 2009 thanked all of the team who have worked on the project throughout the pre-planning and planning phase as well as those individuals and organisations who have been supportive of the development.

“I spoke after the oral hearing of the great team led by Paul Miskella that helped bring this scheme to where it is now at and again now thank all of the committed professionals who have worked on it to date. In acknowledging the support we’ve received from a wide range of third parties, I also want to recognise publicly the courtesy generally shown to us by those who took a different view of the proposals. We have also consistently sought to reciprocate that courtesy and will continue to do so.”

ENDS – November 13, 2008.

trishw78

Thank God the employment front is looking good

JohnC.

Good news. Now we just have the long wait for construction. Hopefully it will bring more feet to the area.

Just looked at the RTÉ link on the previous page. The picture has nothing to do with this development :rolleyes:

fricatus

Kahless wrote: »

Just looked at the RTÉ link on the previous page. The picture has nothing to do with this development :rolleyes:

They're supposed to be a national broadcaster, yet when reporting on the country's fifth city, they seem to think it's good enough to put up any old stock picture of a proposed development for Waterford. Sure how many planning applications can there in Waterford anyway? :rolleyes:

shockwave

I think the one pictured is (or was) the proposed development for the quays.

mike65

Typical RTE, I guess all and sundry will be praying the economy is on the up by the time is complete.

Mike

jmcc

Finally some good news for Waterford.

Regards...jmcc

Jambo

great news , hopefully this will stope the town from coming ever more like a ghost city during the week

Not The Real Scarecrow

Great news....more empty buildings in the future.....developers profiting....evil wins once more.

south

CEO of KRM Paul Miskella says that he hopes construction can begin in early Spring next year.

fricatus

Meatwad wrote: »

Great news....more empty buildings in the future.....developers profiting....evil wins once more.

Oh hello Brendan! :rolleyes:

ziedth

Meatwad wrote: »

Great news....more empty buildings in the future.....developers profiting....evil wins once more.

In the words of tatyo....................... There's always one!!!!

Cabaal

So hang on we have a development in railway square with practically nothing in it and they want another devlopment up the road from it?

Seems like a great ideal!

gscully

Cabaal wrote: »

So hang on we have a development in railway square with practically nothing in it and they want another devlopment up the road from it?

Seems like a great ideal!

The Railway Sq development was only ever going to attract small tenants.

The Newgate development is being designed with a couple of large anchor tenants in mind, and if they sign up, the small units will fill up.

Even though it is only just up the road, it is more in the heart of the shopping area, while Railway Sq is in the drinking / student area of town.

merlante

Thank god this development is going through. I hope the objectors are fuming. Their day is done. I don't think Waterford will look back after this, but they nearly succeeded in finishing the city entirely.

It looks as though development will start in the short term, and Waterford will feel the benefits straight away, with a large number of construction workers working and eating in the city centre over the next couple of years. After that it will benefit even more as it becomes far and away the best shopping destination in the south east.

It's great to see that the 'but isin't railway sq. still empty' brigade on here. I hope that you lot will be just as sickened when it opens as the objectors are now. Railway sq. was never built to support high level, city centre retail. The best it could hope for, given the location and type of units, was a Spar a Pizza Hut and maybe a video shop, or whatever. The Spar/Centra/Londis never opened -- even though it's all but kitted out -- for whatever reason, and the Pizza Hut was denied planning permission because of signage. These setbacks have unfortunately been enough to stifle its development. There is probably too much retail space there anyway.

The Newgate centre will be a different kettle of fish entirely. It will host large anchor tenants that are guaranteed to draw crowds, tenants such as M&S, that are not represented in Waterford and that are very interested in coming here. Waterford has been held back by the total lack of suitable city centre units, particularly large units, and because of the difficulties in modifying existing street fronts. This shopping centre will provide an easy way for shops such as Waterstones, HMV, Virgin (whatever they're called), Dixons, Zara, etc., etc. to come to Waterford at almost zero risk.

Waterford is poised for this expansion because it did not expand its retail in line with other large centres during the boom, and it has similar 30 and 45 min drive time catchment populations to Limerick and Galway. Waterford is probably the only place in the country where a shopping centre of this size could be built during a recession and still make money. When it's built, the city centre will get a lot busier, and businesses that are currently struggling will do a lot better.

Hopefully, HRM will be able to secure the credit, and that negotiations for major retailers not currently in Waterford goes smoothly. If so, by Christmas 2010, we will have one of the best shopping experiences in the country on our own doorstep.

Finally something actually escapes the planning bermuda triangle.

ziedth

merlante wrote: »

Thank god this development is going through. I hope the objectors are fuming. Their day is done. I don't think Waterford will look back after this, but they nearly succeeded in finishing the city entirely.

It looks as though development will start in the short term, and Waterford will feel the benefits straight away, with a large number of construction workers working and eating in the city centre over the next couple of years. After that it will benefit even more as it becomes far and away the best shopping destination in the south east.

It's great to see that the 'but isin't railway sq. still empty' brigade on here. I hope that you lot will be just as sickened when it opens as the objectors are now. Railway sq. was never built to support high level, city centre retail. The best it could hope for, given the location and type of units, was a Spar a Pizza Hut and maybe a video shop, or whatever. The Spar/Centra/Londis never opened -- even though it's all but kitted out -- for whatever reason, and the Pizza Hut was denied planning permission because of signage. These setbacks have unfortunately been enough to stifle its development. There is probably too much retail space there anyway.

The Newgate centre will be a different kettle of fish entirely. It will host large anchor tenants that are guaranteed to draw crowds, tenants such as M&S, that are not represented in Waterford and that are very interested in coming here. Waterford has been held back by the total lack of suitable city centre units, particularly large units, and because of the difficulties in modifying existing street fronts. This shopping centre will provide an easy way for shops such as Waterstones, HMV, Virgin (whatever they're called), Dixons, Zara, etc., etc. to come to Waterford at almost zero risk.

Waterford is poised for this expansion because it did not expand its retail in line with other large centres during the boom, and it has similar 30 and 45 min drive time catchment populations to Limerick and Galway. Waterford is probably the only place in the country where a shopping centre of this size could be built during a recession and still make money. When it's built, the city centre will get a lot busier, and businesses that are currently struggling will do a lot better.

Hopefully, HRM will be able to secure the credit, and that negotiations for major retailers not currently in Waterford goes smoothly. If so, by Christmas 2010, we will have one of the best shopping experiences in the country on our own doorstep.

Finally something actually escapes the planning bermuda triangle.

Well said, I for one cant wait if you walk out my door and look right you can see what I beieve is going to be the New Hotel. Great for the shops up this way. However I feel the like of city square could be in trouble although Dunnes and Debenhams will keep a crowd down there.

merlante

ziedth wrote: »

Well said, I for one cant wait if you walk out my door and look right you can see what I beieve is going to be the New Hotel. Great for the shops up this way. However I feel the like of city square could be in trouble although Dunnes and Debenhams will keep a crowd down there.

As long as Dunnes and Debenhams stay in city square, it'll be fine.

When people head to a centre to do some shopping they don't just go to the newest, fanciest shopping centre. People will comb city square, newgate centre and all the streets in between to get the best deals. City square is not quite a big enough 'anchor' for the city centre on its own, and neither is Barronstrand st./Broad st./Michael st, in attracting people from far and wide. But the newgate centre will be, and the benefits will be felt by all the shops in the city centre and beyond.

I don't think that Debenhams or Dunnes will necessarily want to move from city square either. The rents will be cheaper and people will shop there no matter where they are.

Cabaal

Should be interesting to seen how this all progresses, I just hope for everyone's sake that all the "benefits" everyone speaks of happen because we all know you don't like it but there are many nagative aspects of all this and a good chance it could fall flat on its face.

Time will tell and while people can argue until the outcome finally happens all those arguments are pointless

Not The Real Scarecrow

fricatus wrote: »

Oh hello Brendan! :rolleyes:

Its Mr.Mcann ..lol..or as others know me"The Ruiner".
Seriously though not overly thrilled at it,but the majority of peopleseem to want it so in that respect I'm happy for Waterford.I'm not much of a begrudger, and if jobs are generated from it I'll be happy.

Sully

I kind of like the city center but it could be a lot better. I think businesses themselves have a lot to answer for in terms of how their shop looks. In addition, I would like to see the council do a bit more work to keep the place looking lovely and attract more businesses (Cafes are a must). Every little bit helps. I personally would shop both inside in the City Center and out in the major retailers on the ORR. I wouldn't decide to stop going to the City Center as a result and if I found a similar shop in the City Center works out cheaper or better ill keep my business there. Hence why a lot of people are going abroad or to other city's to get shopping because Waterford isn't serving their requirements. If it did, no matter where in the city, people will travel. A link bus and better parking facilities would be an excellent idea.

While it would be great to see retailers like TXMaxx etc. move into the City Center there is no room for them at present so its either we give a little life to Waterford (which isn't great lately) or we refuse everyone and sit on our hands letting the place die because we were selfish. This is why I think this retail development will be perfect for Waterford. Space for more retailers, a hotel in the city center - a lot more to attract people into the city center to-do their shopping rather then going elsewhere only.

Sure similar developments have failed - due to bad planning if anything. The Six Cross Roads block was a major flop but similar ones in that area have been successful, the Railway Square development is just a cinema and apartments since it seems businesses are not happy with the space offered.

largebottle

The owners of the Railway square centre will be delighted at this news, The KRM development will bring new large anchor tenants to the city, with a major anchor comes a variety of smaller retailers all looking for suitably sized units , R SQ has exactly what many of these smaller retailers will be looking for.

Hopefully KRM manage to get one of the major hotel chains to move into the browns lane building, this is another much needed facility in the city center and again will attract people to this fair city of ours!

gscully

wrote:

<snip>

...and hopefully parking will be a lot cheaper. It's sad to notice that whenever I go somewhere like Dundrum or Newbridge, I can shop for ages and not have to mortgage my house to pay the parking fees when leaving. City Square's parking prices are way over the top!

robtri

gscully wrote: »

...and hopefully parking will be a lot cheaper. It's sad to notice that whenever I go somewhere like Dundrum or Newbridge, I can shop for ages and not have to mortgage my house to pay the parking fees when leaving. City Square's parking prices are way over the top!

but if you go th the Illac centre or Jervis Centre in the centre of Dublin, your mortgage of your house wouldn't even come close to covering it... city centre parking is always expensive... its not just City square, which is reasonable after coming from Dublin..

paddy1mac

Obviously as I work in construction i welcome this news with open arms


But.................

From what I hear the funding of this project will be the main problem and dont bank on this project starting in early spring or even next year.

The quay to this project starting will be on what anchor tenants they can get to sign up and how quickly they can fill the remainder of the units. Also it will depend on the current financial standing of the investors...remember things have changed dramitically over the last while and the banks will not fund this too easily

owenmakken

Its just a shopping centre whats the big deal, it probaly wont be filled for 10 years anyway - an economy isn't made by people building shopping centres, at all! look at pongyong, this country needs some strong industry, we need nuclear power and we need lots of it.

pp_me129

merlante wrote: »

a Pizza Hut

Pasta Hut :rolleyes:

Cabaal

robtri wrote: »

but if you go th the Illac centre or Jervis Centre in the centre of Dublin, your mortgage of your house wouldn't even come close to covering it... city centre parking is always expensive... its not just City square, which is reasonable after coming from Dublin..

Waterford is no where near the same as Dublin in fairness

Mocrie14

Did this project ever get off the ground at all?

Max Powers

It was approved by City COuncil and An Bord PLeanala evetually. However, with the delays that happened, they couldnt get the moeny that they had lined up due to the financial crisis. Massive shame as its widely accepted that Waterford City is underperforming on the retail front and has a few big name suitors that want to set up but cant get the appropriate space they need which the Newgate would have provided.

At this stage, I would say it will start at some stage in next 5-10 years when we come out of recession, as it stands, I couldnt see the hotel part of it happening though. Its a shame it never went ahead, delays by City COuncil approving and Brendan McCannt and others cost us hundereds of jobs that would be going for 3 years and the retail jobs then also.

fricatus

Max Powers wrote: »

I couldnt see the hotel part of it happening though.

I'm not so sure about that. I can see where you're coming from, because nationally, we're oversupplied with hotel rooms. However I'd have thought Waterford city is far from being oversupplied. Indeed a nice four- or five-star hotel in the city centre (like the Radisson in Galway, say) would be a great addition to the place.

Max Powers wrote: »

Its a shame it never went ahead, delays by City COuncil approving and Brendan McCannt and others cost us hundereds of jobs that would be going for 3 years and the retail jobs then also.

Well when you consider that Kilkenny is able to support a practically full McDonagh Junction through the worst recession in living memory, there's no reason why Waterford would not have been able to do the same, had it been built in time.

A potential difficulty is the Ferrybank centre, which is lying idle. I think that's a threat to Newgate if it's not handled properly. NAMA will no doubt want tenants in there before Newgate is built, but it would be a mistake to have major retailers put their Waterford presence outside the city centre.

dayshah

fricatus wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I can see where you're coming from, because nationally, we're oversupplied with hotel rooms. However I'd have thought Waterford city is far from being oversupplied. Indeed a nice four- or five-star hotel in the city centre (like the Radisson in Galway, say) would be a great addition to the place.

I think some small hotel like Arlington Lodge can be successful, but I doubt there is the demand for something the scale of which was planned.

I know this sounds funny, but the Maryland is in a good location, and is in a fine Georgian building. With the help of some serious renovations (especially that horrible attic conversion), I reckon it could be a classy hotel.

AdMMM

fricatus wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I can see where you're coming from, because nationally, we're oversupplied with hotel rooms. However I'd have thought Waterford city is far from being oversupplied. Indeed a nice four- or five-star hotel in the city centre (like the Radisson in Galway, say) would be a great addition to the place.




Well when you consider that Kilkenny is able to support a practically full McDonagh Junction through the worst recession in living memory, there's no reason why Waterford would not have been able to do the same, had it been built in time.

A potential difficulty is the Ferrybank centre, which is lying idle. I think that's a threat to Newgate if it's not handled properly. NAMA will no doubt want tenants in there before Newgate is built, but it would be a mistake to have major retailers put their Waterford presence outside the city centre.

Waterford has the cheapest hotel rates in Ireland because of over-supply. Speaking as someone who works in a hotel, we could probably do with losing one more.

merlante

AdMMM wrote: »

Waterford has the cheapest hotel rates in Ireland because of over-supply. Speaking as someone who works in a hotel, we could probably do with losing one more.

Well this might be the wrong time to drop a hotel given the big facelift and tourism drive the city is undergoing at the moment.

Also, we could do with a 5-star hotel, somewhere like Mt. Congreve, for example.

dayshah

merlante wrote: »

Also, we could do with a 5-star hotel, somewhere like Mt. Congreve, for example.

That could work as a 'resort' hotel. Would it add much to the city.

I still want to turn the Maryland into a 5*

south

Did the place they were going to build out in the waterford crystal sports centre get knocked? I remember they were going to do something like Kildare village.

Max Powers

dayshah wrote: »

I think some small hotel like Arlington Lodge can be successful, but I doubt there is the demand for something the scale of which was planned.

I know this sounds funny, but the Maryland is in a good location, and is in a fine Georgian building. With the help of some serious renovations (especially that horrible attic conversion), I reckon it could be a classy hotel.

totally agree, great location, its just a pity the old fella that owns it wont spend a penny on it and is waiting for the council to fix it up. I have heard he has had numerous exchanges with the council so they are not exactly best of mates.