Catholic literature and the threat of it being banned from the churches.

Run_to_da_hills

This thread was discussed in other forums but I thought I would to hear an opinion from Catholics in the appropriate forum.

As you are probably aware there was a meeting In Dáil Éireann and Cardinal Sean Daley was requested to ban the ALIVE newspaper from churches throughout Ireland in the wake of its NO stance on the Lisbon Referendum. I presume this was pressure from the European parliment in the wake of the NO vote.

There was absolutely nothing mentioned about banning the Irish Catholic newspaper which was a predominantly pro yes in the run up to the campaign.

In the United States Churches are exempt from paying tax by the IRS (Inland Revenue Service) if they comply with certain conditions laid out, one of these being is that they keep out of politics. If they breach these stipulations they can have their tax free status revoked. This is something that could possibly be drafted into Irish and European legislation in the wake of this

This is not an attack on a religious paper, this is an attempt to silence free speech in our country and an attempt to silence the opposition in a second Lisbon treaty referendum.

Article taken from the Irish Independant on the topic.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brady-urged-to-ban-priests-antieu-paper-from-church-1524181.html

This is the ALIVE website with the contraversial June issue. I presume a ban on this paper would only cause it to flurish in popularity like any other state suppressed media and would be in itself score an own goal for the Government.

http://www.alive.ie/archives.php

Gareth37

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This thread was discussed in other forums but I thought I would to hear an opinion from Catholics in the appropriate forum.

As you are probably aware there was a meeting In Dáil Éireann and Cardinal Sean Daley was requested to ban the ALIVE newspaper from churches throughout Ireland in the wake of its NO stance on the Lisbon Referendum. I presume this was pressure from the European parliment in the wake of the NO vote.

There was absolutely nothing mentioned about banning the Irish Catholic newspaper which was a predominantly pro yes in the run up to the campaign.

In the United States Churches are exempt from paying tax by the IRS (Inland Revenue Service) if they comply with certain conditions laid out, one of these being is that they keep out of politics. If they breach these stipulations they can have their tax free status revoked. This is something that could possibly be drafted into Irish and European legislation in the wake of this

This is not an attack on a religious paper, this is an attempt to silence free speech in our country and an attempt to silence the opposition in a second Lisbon treaty referendum.

Article taken from the Irish Independant on the topic.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/brady-urged-to-ban-priests-antieu-paper-from-church-1524181.html

This is the ALIVE website with the contraversial June issue. I presume a ban on this paper would only cause it to flurish in popularity like any other state suppressed media and would be in itself score an own goal for the Government.

http://www.alive.ie/archives.php

You did very well to post this. Alive speaks the truth and no doubt the evil corrupt antichrists in this country will try persecute the church for speaking the truth.

Ive noticed that the Alive newspaper was withdrawn from the porches of churches. The church must not pander to the antichrist that creates and manages society. I hope that Alive continues as strong as ever and that Catholics take a greater interest in this newspaper as a result of the increased publicity.

The church must waken up to the fact that certain evil outlined in scripture is being fulfilled in our time with the beasts and the dragon uniting in the antichrist with the help of blasphemy.

I would advise all Christians to only trust the church.

Run_to_da_hills

djeddy wrote: »

Patrick pearce and his commrades won the right for us to have free speech in this country,paying dearly for it with their earthly lives,

How dare anyone try and take away our firmly held catholic christian beleifs,

This is like a return to the penal days when the irish faithful catholics of old were driven in to the hills for not bowing to the goverment of the day,

TBH I would agree with you, The Government has no right to dictate or interfere to what is distributed within any Church or Mosque for that matter.

The Only exception to this would be if they suspected that the said literature was to be used for the intention of invoking "terrorist activities". I wouldn't exactly call Alive a terrorist newspaper. There again one that publishes pro NO Lisbon campaign literature could now be regarded as dissidents by the state.

What next will they try to censor, Gospel tracts. :rolleyes:

oobydooby

If I remember correctly Alive was pulled from Dublin church porches by the Archbishop. Although undoubtedly Catholic in its content, it is not under control of the Bishop. So it can take a maverick line which might misrepresent the Catholic church's position.

The other Catholic paper mentioned, the Irish Catholic, is possibly under the control of the Bishop. I read somewhere that any publication/broadcaster etc. with the word 'Catholic' in the title is obliged to come under the remit of the local Bishop. Hence the Catholic TV station is called EWTN rather than Catholic TV so that they can broadcast without the constraints of an overseeing Bishop.

I rarely/never read either publication but this reason sounds more plausible than the conspiracy one. For the OP, yes I would be horrified if the government interfered with church matters in that way. And vice versa too! And I doubt either would occur in this day and age.

*edit Sorry OP, had missed the news story about that Dail debate. No comment on that.

Gareth37

The banning of Alive by our Government signifies something that the Bible predicts. Im not going to spell it out but many of you on here will know what Im talking about...

There are many stronger signs out there too.

bus77

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

In the United States Churches are exempt from paying tax by the IRS (Inland Revenue Service) if they comply with certain conditions laid out, one of these being is that they keep out of politics. If they breach these stipulations they can have their tax free status revoked. This is something that could possibly be drafted into Irish and European legislation in the wake of this.

That would'nt be a problem if Christian churches actually followed Christs example to the letter and gave what belongs to Caesar, back to Caesar.

--amadeus--

This bubbles down to one question.

Are churches public or private spaces?

Now in another thread there was an rcc member who was forcfully saying that non-catholics should pay (and pay heavily) for teh use of church facilities for weddings, funerals and the like. The thrust of the argument is that the chuch owns and maintains the buildings so they are - in effect - private spaces that they open to worshipers. There is no automatic right of access any more than there is an automatic right of access to a shop or pub.

Now I find this a convicing argument - he who pays the piper calls the tune and all that.

So imagine for a second that a fundamentalist muslim group were kicking up a fuss because the VFI were refusing to allow them to distribute free copies of a tract denouncing alcohol throughout every pub in Ireland. If it made the news at all it would be in a "what are those people on" type story.

So why should the rcc freely allow a publication to be distributed through it's premises that flatly contradicts it's own position? How is that any different? It's got nothing to do with free speech - no one is "banning" Alive, or stopping people reading it. They are just saying you have to find an alternative means of distribution. No-one is stopping them selling it through Easons or handing it out on the streets for example.

Gareth37

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So why should the rcc freely allow a publication to be distributed through it's premises that flatly contradicts it's own position? How is that any different? It's got nothing to do with free speech - no one is "banning" Alive, or stopping people reading it. They are just saying you have to find an alternative means of distribution. No-one is stopping them selling it through Easons or handing it out on the streets for example.

It doesn't contradict the position of scripture. Some may play politics but the truth cannot be denied. The church is indeed weak and asleep but this is how it will be and worse.

--amadeus--

Gareth37 wrote: »

It doesn't contradict the position of scripture. Some may play politics but the truth cannot be denied. The church is indeed weak and asleep but this is how it will be and worse.

OK, despite an earlier promise to myself I am going to bite on this...

The RCC is a large, complex organisation that has a range of positions on issues of the day, both religious and secular (I assume we all agree?)

The RCC has a right to use it's own buildings and structures to put forward it's own viewpoint (again I assume we agree)

The RCC would be within it's right to prevent me from going to mass on a Sunday simply to protest that god is false, for example. In other words they have a right to prevent disruptive or contradictory positions being offered within the confines of it's own grounds. this is not an attack on free speech since I have the right to protest outside teh church should i so wish. (Again pretty non-controversial I would imagine)

This "Alive" newspaper has a position on a secular issue that the RCC opposes (again this seems factual)

So - irrespective of its position on scripture - this paper contradicts the RCC. Based on all of teh above points then the RCC is within it's rights to remove Alive's permission (NOT right) to distribution through it's outlets.

Not a complicated decision and fairly easy to reach I would have thought. Free speech is a red herring being thrown in to muddy the waters.

JimiTime

Gareth37 wrote: »

I would advise all Christians to only trust the church.

Gareth37 wrote: »

The church is indeed weak and asleep but this is how it will be and worse.

Hmmm. Mixed messages I see. Alive is not an official RC publication, yet you say it is the truth, then you say trust only the church. So what is it? Alive or the RCC?

djeddy

Gareth37 wrote: »

It doesn't contradict the position of scripture. Some may play politics but the truth cannot be denied. The church is indeed weak and asleep but this is how it will be and worse.

To quote pope john paul,

Do not be conspicuous by your absence when the future of the world is being shaped:

You already share responsibility for it

djeddy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

TBH I would agree with you, The Government has no right to dictate or interfere to what is distributed within any Church or Mosque for that matter.

The Only exception to this would be if they suspected that the said literature was to be used for the intention of invoking "terrorist activities". I wouldn't exactly call Alive a terrorist newspaper. There again one that publishes pro NO Lisbon campaign literature could now be regarded as dissidents by the state.

What next will they try to censor, Gospel tracts. :rolleyes:

Some people dont like to hear the truth,
But the truth is the truth no matter who speaks it or who beleives it,

robindch

Gareth37 wrote: »

Alive speaks the truth [...] I would advise all Christians to only trust the church.

You mentioned in a recent post that you only trusted the bible -- have you changed your opinion since Monday?

Regardless, Alive was either removed or was threatened with removal on account of the atrociously deceitful articles and ads which it published concerning the Lisbon referendum in June (and prior to that). In my twenty-five odd years of reading, and occasionally seeking out, fringe and crank literature in Ireland, that particular issue of Alive was amongst the nastiest I've seen.

By having this hate-rag available on church property, the church appeared to condone its insane views which, as other posters have pointed out, are at odds not only with the church's policy, but also with the Pope's apparent position on the Lisbon Treaty.

The irony of Alive ignoring both its church and the Pope was clearly lost on the person who wrote the article that appears at the bottom of page two, saying that Papal primacy is "an essential element of the church, not an optional addition." This primacy seems not to apply to Alive.

Halfdog

Gareth37 wrote: »

You did very well to post this. Alive speaks the truth and no doubt the evil corrupt antichrists in this country will try persecute the church for speaking the truth.

This is no doubt an attack from Satan upon our churches. The Lisbon treaty if ratified will over ride our constitution and will flood the country with abortion, euthanasia and every other sort of godless evil. We should stand up and resist the Devil from infiltrating our church and country.

Gareth37

Ok, let me explain my comments regarding the trust in the church:

Only trust the scripture for which the RCC is responsible in spreading.

People say here that the RCC supports the Lisbon Treaty? This may be true in Ireland but please provide me with the evidence for this. I need to see the evidence as I have no faith in people than support antichrist politics.

Gareth37

djeddy wrote: »

To quote pope john paul,

Do not be conspicuous by your absence when the future of the world is being shaped:

You already share responsibility for it

May I ask brother, did you ever meet the former Holy Father or had you any connection with him?

djeddy

Gareth37 wrote: »

May I ask brother, did you ever meet the former Holy Father or had you any connection with him?

No, just saw the man from a distance back in 79

CerebralCortex

djeddy wrote: »

No, just saw the man from a distance back in 79

That explains a lot.

Gareth37

djeddy wrote: »

No, just saw the man from a distance back in 79

Thanks very much.

Galvasean

No major loss. Alive's film reviews are quite poor.

Rev Hellfire

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

As you are probably aware there was a meeting In Dáil Éireann and Cardinal Sean Daley was requested to ban the ALIVE newspaper from churches throughout Ireland in the wake of its NO stance on the Lisbon Referendum.

This is yet another example of the catholic church attempting to interfere with the secular state... no wait a minute something's wrong here.

Its kind of amusing to see the usual roles reversed here, certainly if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry.

Galvasean

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Its kind of amusing to see the usual roles reversed here, certainly if the situation was reversed there would be an outcry.

There isn't one now?

Rev Hellfire

Do you think there is ?