France's Famas - how does it compare

DublinDes

Watched a programme recently about the French Foreign Legion and they seemed to be pretty proud of it's capabilites, though an American tested it's grouping against the M14 and the M14 came out best. Anyone got any experience of it ? I see on Wiki very few countries use it as the standard infantry weapon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAMAS#Users

Lets say the Heckler & Koch G36 is 10/10, M14 is 9/10, the Steyr 8/10 or whatever, how would you rate the Famas ?

Captain Chaos

Here is a link to a little read of a review of the FAMAS from a good few years back.

http://remtek.com/arms/famas/index.htm

Leadership

From what I have experienced with weapons this would be my ratings

Galil 10/10 - AK47 reliability and proven combat experience. The Galil MAR is perfection in my eyes
G3 - 8/10 - Reminds me of the old SLR
SLR - 9/10 Could stop a elephant and as reliable as they come, I always modded mine for automatic fire. If this had a 3 round burst then it would be 10/10. Very limited for FIBUA or it would be a 10
SA80 (un-modded)- 6/10, insect replant used to melt the plastic and it used to fall pieces. Good to fire though as you can get a very stable firing possition
Steyer AUG 8/10 - For some reason never liked this rifle but ok
FAMAS 9.5/10 - A tough well designed rifle, I was with the French Legion on Mt Igman and this was a very effective weapon. Like the SA80 you can get yourself in great firing possition
M16 6/10 - Horrible! Just like the SA80 for rmelting plastic and not user friendly
M14 8/10 - Last of the old school rifles but no where near SLR

There are others I could mention but these stuck out

Manic Moran

M16 6/10 - Horrible! Just like the SA80 for rmelting plastic and not user friendly

Other than cleaning, what was not user-friendly about it?

NTM

Leadership

Manic Moran wrote: »

Other than cleaning, what was not user-friendly about it?

NTM

I find the cocking (Charging???) a real pain especially if you are in a well setup firing position. I found that I had to test and adjust my position as opposed to just testing it compared to the more traditional side cocking rifles I am experienced with.

I guess it is a personal choice as by time I got my hands on one I was conditioned to the side cocking. I would imagine I would feel the other way if I was used to the M16.

DublinDes

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Here is a link to a little read of a review of the FAMAS from a good few years back.

http://remtek.com/arms/famas/index.htm

Thanks Captain. Noboby seems to have personal experience of it ? No ex Legionnaires or mates of Legionnaires here ?

DublinDes

Manic Moran wrote: »

Other than cleaning, what was not user-friendly about it?

NTM

Manic, he slagged it off because it's American, typical sour grapes from a British army fan. The M16/14 is undoubtably one of the best assualt rifles in the world. To give it the same mark as the SA80 ( and as he says, the unmodified version ) is bollox. The SA80 is one of the worst, if not the worst assualt rifles every made. Ok Heckler Koch have improved it, but compared to other modern assualt rifles, it's still sh!te.

So, anyone have any real knowledge of the Famas ?

Leadership

DublinDes wrote: »

Thanks Captain. Noboby seems to have personal experience of it ? No ex Legionnaires or mates of Legionnaires here ?

I spent 4 months on tour with the French in Bosnia.

Leadership

DublinDes wrote: »

Manic, he slagged it off because it's American, typical sour grapes from a British army fan.

I gave the SA80 the same score!!!! There were no sour grapes intended.

My ideas were based on actual usage, ok its mainly on range days or CQB days but I have tried a lot of weapons and gave honest opinions. I also gave what I felt was a valid reason in my reply. It was already suggested that the cleaning is not user friendly.

I have huge appreciation of the US forces and in the later stages of my career I worked very closely with them. I had under my command a US EOD team who were as professional as they come and to fair had the best kit and resources that money could buy.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

DublinDes wrote: »

Manic, he slagged it off because it's American, typical sour grapes from a British army fan. The M16/14 is undoubtably one of the best assualt rifles in the world. To give it the same mark as the SA80 ( and as he says, the unmodified version ) is bollox. The SA80 is one of the worst, if not the worst assualt rifles every made. Ok Heckler Koch have improved it, but compared to other modern assualt rifles, it's still sh!te.

So, anyone have any real knowledge of the Famas ?

M16 has a pretty bad reputation for jams, it's not one of the best assault rifles made, you are getting mixed up with the AK rifles.

I found the styre to be quite reliable, accurate and great for FIBUA, it's very durable and easy to clean.

magick

Avalynn Angry Technician wrote: »

M16 has a pretty bad reputation for jams, it's not one of the best assault rifles made, you are getting mixed up with the AK rifles.

I found the styre to be quite reliable, accurate and great for FIBUA, it's very durable and easy to clean.

well personally i think that bad rep is from back in the early days of the vietnam war, but the improved versions are good now.

Captain Chaos

Alot of US soldiers in Iraq and Afganistan are not that happy with the M4/M16, most likely because of all the sand and not enough time to clean them.

US SOCOM has started to recieve their replacements, the FN SCAR MK16 and MK17.

Some other elite units in the US armed forces are using the HK416 and HK417 in ops in the Middle East, choosing to leave their M4s and M16s back at home.

Manic Moran

Leadership wrote: »

I guess it is a personal choice as by time I got my hands on one I was conditioned to the side cocking. I would imagine I would feel the other way if I was used to the M16.

Probably the answer.

I own a left-side-cocking FAL, a right-side-cocking SIG556 and my issue rifle is the central-cocking M-4. I used to have an on-the-top-cocking M17S and I've played with the over-the-top-cocking L85. I'm fairly competent with all of them, but I think that I like the FAL system the least as it requires removing the supporting hand. That said, the rest of my AXR should be arriving soon, that's left-side as well, but as a bullpup the rules of 'supporting hand' aren't so critical. I guess the right-side is the best, but then I'm a right-handed gent. Someone shooting left-handed may well prefer the centre option over a right-side.

Ok Heckler Koch have improved it, but compared to other modern assualt rifles, it's still sh!te.

Why do you say this? The L85A2 by all accounts now has an excellent reputation. It's a tad heavy, but it's accurate and reliable.

M16 has a pretty bad reputation for jams,

Considering how many countries chose the M16 and its variants for their Special Forces, I think you slightly overstate the issue. When properly maintained by trained troops, the M-16/M-4/C-7etc is a very good rifle.

Of course, it is over 40 years old, and time progresses. The 416 isn't even a new rifle, it's basically an M-4 receiver with a new top pinned in place which has a piston vice direct impingement. It's better, it's just not hugely better which is why the US Army isn't spending the money to implement it. The dollar value just wouldn't be justified by the improvements when the same money could be devoted to other toys.

NTM

iceage

Still wouldn't mind giving the Famas a run.

cherrypicker555

DublinDes wrote: »

Manic, he slagged it off because it's American, typical sour grapes from a British army fan. The M16/14 is undoubtably one of the best assualt rifles in the world. To give it the same mark as the SA80 ( and as he says, the unmodified version ) is bollox. The SA80 is one of the worst, if not the worst assualt rifles every made. Ok Heckler Koch have improved it, but compared to other modern assualt rifles, it's still sh!te.

So, anyone have any real knowledge of the Famas ?

You obviously have never used the A2 version of the SA80.

Its now a first class weapon.

DublinDes

Avalynn Angry Technician wrote: »

M16 has a pretty bad reputation for jams, it's not one of the best assault rifles made, you are getting mixed up with the AK rifles.

True enough. Not as reliable as the AK47.

Manic Moran

Rob Peter to pay Paul. At the time, you could be light and accurate, or you could be heavy and reliable. AR-15 series rifles are extremely accurate (Check out the numbers in use at Camp Perry) and they are functionally reliable. True, an AK is far more likely to fire after having been dunked in mud, sand and salt for three days, but if soldiers maintain their rifle like wot they're supposed to instead of leaving it muddy/sandy/salty, the ARs are going to be eminently acceptable.

Of course, times have moved on, and the current standard is the AR-18, with a few deviants like SIGs which harken back to AKs.

NTM

Tribunius

Sigs are pretty hefty weapons compared to ar's but they are still dam accurate.

Manic Moran

They are, I own one.

But they are also very heavy, comparatively. So you're still looking at two out of three. AK Reliability, AR-15 accuracy (And a beautiful trigger), but it comes in at no small weight.

The lightweight rifles of today tend to be AR-18 mechanisms, such as G-36 and AUG.

NTM

iceage

And the Famas................?

Manic Moran

I said 'tend to'. I had Famas specifically in mind when I said that!

NTM

Captain Chaos

iceage wrote: »

And the Famas................?

The FAMAS along with the SA80 are among the heaviest 5.56 assault rifles still in service in Army front lines.

The AUG is pushing it, the new A3 variant with the RIS is almost as heavy as an SA80.

The HK416 is a bit heavier than the AR15 variants its to replace. The 14'' 416 variant is around the same weight as a 20'' AR15 variant (M16A2/A4) and its ment to replace the lighter M4A1.

Tribunius

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The HK416 is a bit heavier than the AR15 variants its to replace. The 14'' 416 variant is around the same weight as a 20'' AR15 variant (M16A2/A4) and its ment to replace the lighter M4A1.

Where are you getting that? The HK416 is replacing nothing.

Besides with all the accessories these days the initial weight of a weapon doesn't really mean much.

Captain Chaos

Tribunius wrote: »

Where are you getting that? The HK416 is replacing nothing.

Besides with all the accessories these days the initial weight of a weapon doesn't really mean much.

Its not in line to replace anything yet exactly but some elite US units have already replaced their M4s and M16s with the 416. The US Capital Hill SWAT team has gone from the M4-G36K-HK416 as their primary in the past 6 years.

As to the accessories the initial weight does matter as there has been comments about the weight of the 416 with accessories as it weighs a good bit more than an M4 kitted out the same and the 416 tends to be more front heavy.

A HK416 D14.5 fitted with an AG416 will weigh about 1kg more than an M4 fitted with an M203.

Leadership

Manic Moran wrote: »

They are, I own one.

I would to to come around and play with your train set! That is one of the coolest responses ever.

Manic Moran

Leadership wrote: »

I would to to come around and play with your train set! That is one of the coolest responses ever.

Actually, technically I own two SIGs, just only one's a rifle.





However, you're perfectly welcome to come around and play with them.

NTM

iceage

Sig, Nuff said...very nice!




Irish FCA handling the French Famas, on a FCA trip to France. I wonder did they manage to put some rounds down on a range somewhere??

Mahatma coat

Anyone else read the thread title and think

I wonder did she get her revenge on seattle?


:D

Fishtits

Leadership, I'm calling you a Walt. You're stuffed.

At best a Fut-Fut

Fishtits.

You haven't a clue... and that's being nice.

iceage

Ahh question Fishwithtits...whats a Walt?? do please enlighten us.

Manic Moran

Walter Mitty. Our piscine friend is questioning the bona fides of a member of our august discussion group.

NTM

iceage

Got that, I was unsuccessfully trying to extract the Mick.....I failed miserably:o:D

Fishtits

The fut fut is important...

iceage

Well the question is, is he? proof.