UCD Law - reputation?

the_wheel_turns

Hi!

I've been studying English in Trinity (yes, Trinity:eek:) since I started college this October.

I don't really like it as much as I liked it in secondary school, so I've decided next year I'm gonna re-apply to Law somewhere.

The only two colleges I'm really considering are Trinity, again, and UCD. Both, from what I can see, have excellent reputations.

But recently I've fallen in love with UCD, having visited friends on-campus, etc. It's so much friendlier than Trinity, at first glance anyway.

The only problem I have is whether or not the Law School in UCD is held in the same esteem as Trinity's is? Eventually, I'd like to apply to a US Law School like Harvard or Columbia, and I need to know if as many people from UCD manage to get in to places like that??

ANY help would be great :):)

Thomas_S_Hunterson

If I was doing law I'd definitely go to Trinity. I wont put it down to any particular reason, but rather just a general feeling.

bnt

If you come to UCD Law, you can get lectured at by former Tanaiste Michael McDowell. I don't know what to make of that, not being in Law myself.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

bnt wrote: »

If you come to UCD Law, you can get lectured at by former Tanaiste Michael McDowell. I don't know what to make of that, not being in Law myself.

No solicitors would employ him after his stint as minister:p

the_wheel_turns

yeh... can't say i'm the biggest fan of McDowell at all really...:(

he angered me as justice minister...

thanks for that

still wondering about the international rep though... would harvard look down their over-educated noses at a UCD law degree d'ya think!?

mloc

Most students will agree that the law degrees from the two different colleges differ a fair bit, in particular that the UCD course is more practical than the more theoretical Trinity degree.

Pride Fighter

I always heard UCD is fantastic for law. The department is apparently well connected to the UK and the US. Business and law is a very popular course, as it offers even more employment opportunities.

Red Alert

Sean_K wrote: »

No solicitors would employ him after his stint as minister:p

He represented Karen Millen vs. Dunnes stores so you're wrong there.

The_Minister

Sean_K wrote: »

No solicitors would employ him after his stint as minister:p

What are you talking about, they are lining up to employ him.


Oh, and whrn are his lectures, I'd love to go.

themont85

I was in Trinity myself(didn't do law) but when deciding my CAO I was looking at law in both. They're both really good for law. I think people have a notion that Trinity is better because of history ect but then again when I looked and asked about reputations from people it seemed to vary. I mean almost every Chief Justice, Attorney General and i think its like 5 or 6 of the current Supreme Court are UCD law alumni. Brian Cowen is a past UCD law student as well. Of course Mary Robinson and McAlese were Trinity law people. Either way all my mates who are graduates from both got jobs in the leading firms and I know a guy from UCD who is in the States like it seems you were after I think was in Harvard.

muffinman

If you take a look at the websites of any of the "big" law firms in Dublin and look at their partners, you'll see that the vast majority are UCD gradates. In Ireland, UCD law is very well regarded. On an international level, I'm not sure, but UCD is definitely a respected law school in this country..

HoldOnTight

Why would you do an undergraduate law degree and then go and do a postgraduate one? I was always under the impression that a J.D was the exact same as an B.C.L. (not sure if that is the right acronym) except that one was studied at undergraduate level and the other at postgrad (requiring you to have an undergraduate degree). From what I've read the best way to get into one of the ivory towers is to have an arts type subject. I have a friend at Yale Law School (the highest ranking law school in the States as he so quickly reminds me everytime I talk to him) and I know he said that one of the most common degrees among those who gained entrance to Yale was, in fact, english. Basically anything that provides you with good analytical and critical skills is appreciated.

Maybe its just me but I would be under the impression that having a law degree already under your belt would not play to your advantage when applying to Harvard, Columbia etc. They want to teach you new and exciting material, not sit through stuff that you have already been through.
An English degree at Trinity would be much more respected in my opinion.

As regards to practicing law in the States with a foreign law degree, the rules vary from state to state. I know New York is relatively lenient when it comes to this sort of thing. With others not so much. I assume the reason you want to study in an American law school is to practice law in America right? I'm not sure how a degree in Irish law would help you much.

Stabshauptmann

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I always heard UCD is fantastic for law. The department is apparently well connected to the UK and the US. Business and law is a very popular course, as it offers even more employment opportunities.

Thats debatable, and has been debated many times on this board. Its an age old question, which is better: breath of knowledge or specialisation? Theres pros and cons to both. Remember though the business and law degree is not a law degree and a business degree.

Always remember to take the marketing speil with a pinch of salt

themont85

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Thats debatable, and has been debated many times on this board. Its an age old question, which is better: breath of knowledge or specialisation? Theres pros and cons to both. Remember though the business and law degree is not a law degree and a business degree.

Always remember to take the marketing speil with a pinch of salt

If i had done law i would have done business and law tbh. From what i was told they basically did 3 of the 5 law subjects in first year and the rest been commerce subjects. But because its a 4 year course you can pretty much make up the subjects that you don't do in the final year as opposed to law/commerce which is 3 years by specialising in either law or the business.

Trinners are even starting their own Business and Law next year. Remember btw you could always do an erasmus or international with UCD law or B and L to Europe or the States as an extra year. I had a mate who went to Minneseta as part of his law degree in UCD and he could have gone to Oz or Canada either. The one huge let down for me when I was in Trinity was the lack of foreign university options as opposed to UCD.

Jev/N

themont85 wrote: »

If i had done law i would have done business and law tbh. From what i was told they basically did 3 of the 5 law subjects in first year and the rest been commerce subjects. But because its a 4 year course you can pretty much make up the subjects that you don't do in the final year as opposed to law/commerce which is 3 years by specialising in either law or the business.

Trinners are even starting their own Business and Law next year. Remember btw you could always do an erasmus or international with UCD law or B and L to Europe or the States as an extra year. I had a mate who went to Minneseta as part of his law degree in UCD and he could have gone to Oz or Canada either. The one huge let down for me when I was in Trinity was the lack of foreign university options as opposed to UCD.

Totally agree with this, I'm in 4th B&L in UCD. Had the choice of going to Melbourne last year but decided against it as I just wanted a 4 year degree. B&L has a very good reputation among employers at this stage, sometimes more so than most other law based degrees, especially if you're going into a large corporate firm as you've a more rounded education and understanding of business affairs. I wouldn't choose Trinity for their brand new Business & Law degree as it doesn't have a reputation yet among employers, usually it takes at least 10 years+ to be recognised by prospective employers

dacosta

HoldOnTight wrote: »

Maybe its just me but I would be under the impression that having a law degree already under your belt would not play to your advantage when applying to Harvard, Columbia etc. They want to teach you new and exciting material, not sit through stuff that you have already been through.
An English degree at Trinity would be much more respected in my opinion.

I think you would probably be looking at an LL.M., in which case an undergraduate law degree would certainly be of use, if not a prerequisite for Harvard/Columbia etc. I did law in Trinity so would of course lean in favour of studying there, but I don't really notice much difference between UCD and Trinity graduates tbh.

SpencerJames

surprised no one has mentioned the hotties in b and l

Duffman

mloc wrote: »

Most students will agree that the law degrees from the two different colleges differ a fair bit, in particular that the UCD course is more practical than the more theoretical Trinity degree.

I wouldn't agree that they differ in any meaningful way. Why do you think the UCD degree is more practical? With respect, I think that's nonsense.

muffinman wrote: »

If you take a look at the websites of any of the "big" law firms in Dublin and look at their partners, you'll see that the vast majority are UCD gradates. In Ireland, UCD law is very well regarded. On an international level, I'm not sure, but UCD is definitely a respected law school in this country..

I can certainly tell you that a good UCD or Trinity law degree will stand to you abroad, particularly in the UK. People who pick their law school based on some vague idea that one is "more recognised" than the other abroad are silly.

HoldOnTight

dacosta wrote: »

I think you would probably be looking at an LL.M., in which case an undergraduate law degree would certainly be of use, if not a prerequisite for Harvard/Columbia etc. I did law in Trinity so would of course lean in favour of studying there, but I don't really notice much difference between UCD and Trinity graduates tbh.

Apologies, I assumed the op was considering a JD in Harvard/Columbia which is not an LLM but the same as an undergraduate BCL in Ireland.　

heofro

Woah, few misconceptions there.
1: BCL is an undergraduate law degree awarded by NUI (but also the name of a postgrad law degree from Oxford, UK)
2: University of Dublin awards an LLB as its undergraduate law degree
3: LLM is a law masters, from either NUI or UD
4: A JD is an American Postgraduate Law Degree awarded by a law school affiliated to a University
5:All law courses in North America are postgraduate, it is impossible to study law as an undergraduate degree, hence why many students do Arts based courses first. If you're an international student applying to Harvard or Yale to do Law, yes it would be a good idea to have a 1st Class Honours Law Degree from either UCD or Trinity under your belt!

As far as Reputations go...
UCD: 38 out of 40 Attorney Generals
Something like 5 or 6 out of 7 of the current Supreme Court Bench
And 6 out of 7 Chief Justices...:p

Thomas_S_Hunterson

heofro wrote: »

As far as Reputations go...
UCD: 38 out of 40 Attorney Generals
Something like 5 or 6 out of 7 of the current Supreme Court Bench
And 6 out of 7 Chief Justices...:p

Few top barristers actually want to be called up as there is nowhere near the same money in being a judge.

Bluefox21

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Thats debatable, and has been debated many times on this board. Its an age old question, which is better: breath of knowledge or specialisation? Theres pros and cons to both. Remember though the business and law degree is not a law degree and a business degree.

Always remember to take the marketing speil with a pinch of salt

As far as I know it is a law degree and a business degree?

Stabshauptmann

What I mean is its not the equivalent of having 2 degrees, one in law and one in business.

Rancho

heofro wrote: »

Woah, few misconceptions there.
1: BCL is an undergraduate law degree awarded by NUI (but also the name of a postgrad law degree from Oxford, UK)
2: University of Dublin awards an LLB as its undergraduate law degree
3: LLM is a law masters, from either NUI or UD
4: A JD is an American Postgraduate Law Degree awarded by a law school affiliated to a University
5:All law courses in North America are postgraduate, it is impossible to study law as an undergraduate degree, hence why many students do Arts based courses first. If you're an international student applying to Harvard or Yale to do Law, yes it would be a good idea to have a 1st Class Honours Law Degree from either UCD or Trinity under your belt!

As far as Reputations go...
UCD: 38 out of 40 Attorney Generals
Something like 5 or 6 out of 7 of the current Supreme Court Bench
And 6 out of 7 Chief Justices...:p

The Taoiseach, the minister for defence, and the lovely Miriam O'Callahan!

RandolphEsq

Sean_K wrote: »

Few top barristers actually want to be called up as there is nowhere near the same money in being a judge.

So what you're saying is that UCD graduates aren't money obsessed

Thomas_S_Hunterson

BrightEyes wrote: »

So what you're saying is that UCD graduates aren't money obsessed

Not quite no.

RandolphEsq

Sean_K wrote: »

Not quite no.

It seems like you are

Mr Minraise

Rancho wrote: »

The Taoiseach, the minister for defence, and the lovely Miriam O'Callahan!

Fcuk the B&L sluts, were talking top ***** here.

Also McDowell repped Frank Prendergast Jr. ( a hero in my eyes) in his case with the HEA. So to say hes just in UCD due to lack of action is just LOL.

the_wheel_turns

HoldOnTight wrote: »

Why would you do an undergraduate law degree and then go and do a postgraduate one? I was always under the impression that a J.D was the exact same as an B.C.L. (not sure if that is the right acronym) except that one was studied at undergraduate level and the other at postgrad (requiring you to have an undergraduate degree). From what I've read the best way to get into one of the ivory towers is to have an arts type subject. I have a friend at Yale Law School (the highest ranking law school in the States as he so quickly reminds me everytime I talk to him) and I know he said that one of the most common degrees among those who gained entrance to Yale was, in fact, english. Basically anything that provides you with good analytical and critical skills is appreciated.

Maybe its just me but I would be under the impression that having a law degree already under your belt would not play to your advantage when applying to Harvard, Columbia etc. They want to teach you new and exciting material, not sit through stuff that you have already been through.
An English degree at Trinity would be much more respected in my opinion.

Well it's not really that I'd be aiming to study the same things again. Wherever I end up, the American J.D. is the equivalent to the Irish degree I get. So, I won't be eligible for entry to any J.D. programme. The idea is that I apply to an LL.M. programme - which most of the top Law Schools gear specifically towards foreign applicants, for which Harvard is in fact the top university.

While Yale may be currently the 'top' Law School, and it fluctuates virtually every year between it and Harvard, I think I'd be going for the overall status of the university. Harvard's no.1 in the world, I think Yale is no.6 or 7. That may sound pompous or uninformed, but I do know two Trinity Law graduates who graduated with 1st class honours, and got straight into Harvard Law. They are both now working as special advisers in Leinster House and training to be barristers.

Regarding English in Trinity - it's an excellent course, one I have no hesitation in recommending. Just wasn't the course for me. Twelve hours of lectures/tutorials, plus about twenty hours of solitary reading - as much as I like English and reading, I just couldn't hack the weekly workload.

Thanks for all your help gach duine!