Building Control Regulations

Spartie

Does anyone know what are the implications of not sending in a commencement notice before building starts

RKQ

(A slow and tortured death! )

A fine is possible but my main concern is Certification.
If you don't send in a Commencement Notice then you won't get a receipt from the Council with a Commencement Number.

Your mortgage Certifier will need a commencement number and date of issue for their Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations.

It may are may not cause problems (possible legal debate) as you are legally required to inform the Council of your intention to start construction.

I'd send in one asap!

Spartie

Thanks for that.

You don't happen to know what size of fines are applicable. This is only a small extension, hence morgage certifiers not involved.

I only thought about commencement notice the other day, but builders had already put in foundations.

Avns1s

I'd just send it in now.

RKQ

Tried to send a PM

Send in the commencement notice on monday.

Nice to be fully legal to avoid complications in the future. Nice to know you could get a mortgage to finish the extension if you wanted one ( open construction had been inspected regularly by a professional.)

Send in the commencement notice on monday.

Spartie

I plan to, but how should I date it. I read somewhere that if these forms are late your planning is deemed invalid, since it took most of the year to get this all sorted out, I don't want it coming to a standstill now.

It is all very confusing

RKQ

Its not as hard as it seems. You made a mistake... its best for all parties if you recetify same by sending in the notice.

The Council require 14 days notice minimum from the date they receive it.
Otherwise they will send it back, as they are legally required to do so.

Send it in on Monday with €30 cheque.:)

smashey

Spartie wrote: »

I plan to, but how should I date it. I read somewhere that if these forms are late your planning is deemed invalid, since it took most of the year to get this all sorted out, I don't want it coming to a standstill now.

It is all very confusing

Send it in on Monday with your commencement date being November 24.

No6

Put wednsday's date plus two weeks for the start date on the form and send it in on monday. I frequently have to send in commencement notices for building that are already build (designed by someone else obviously) where certification is urgently required for a sale to go through or something and then no commencement notice. Some local authorities may not be as easy going about it as mine is (relatively Horizontal!!):D so get it in now!!!

Spartie

Do the council not have to check out the site before it starts. I was concerned that they'd come out in -say 3 weeks time - to find that building was well underway.

(You see the builder told me not to bother about it - why do you think would that be)

Anyway thanks a million for all your advice, I agree that this form has to go in and I will be sending it in on monday. :)

smashey

Spartie wrote: »

Do the council not have to check out the site before it starts. I was concerned that they'd come out in -say 3 weeks time - to find that building was well underway.

(You see the builder told me not to bother about it - why do you think would that be)

Anyway thanks a million for all your advice, I agree that this form has to go in and I will be sending it in on monday. :)

I haven't seen anybody from building control on any site I've been involved in over the past two years. As was said, just submit the commencement notice with the appropriate dates and fee.

Also, tell your builder to stfu.

muffler

Spartie wrote: »

Do the council not have to check out the site before it starts. I was concerned that they'd come out in -say 3 weeks time - to find that building was well underway.

Very unlikely that there would be anyone out. As per the advice given by others send the notice in ASAP.

If you were concerned about them coming out you could make a slight variation of the notice description. Where it asks you for a description of the works you would normally just fill in "construction of extension to house" but you could fill in "construction of all works for extension to house from foundation stage (or sub floor level) onwards". That has worked for me in the past but it doesn't guarantee that your local BC dept would accept it.

Spartie wrote: »

(You see the builder told me not to bother about it - why do you think would that be)

Probably because his details have to be included on the form.

Sparky78

How long is the commencement notice valid for?
I sent 1 in about 3 months ago and only started this week.
Would this be a problem?

Thanks

No6

Sparky78 wrote: »

How long is the commencement notice valid for?
I sent 1 in about 3 months ago and only started this week.
Would this be a problem?

Thanks

No problem its valid for the life of the planning permission and then assuming you've acted on the planning permission for ever!!! Keep the letter they send you back the number and the date are important for certification, My LA charge 12euro for a copy if your solicitor or bank wants one at the end!!!:eek:

Spartie

why do they state 'not less than 14 days or more than twenty eight before commencement' if it is .... open ended

muffler

No6 wrote: »

No problem its valid for the life of the planning permission and then assuming you've acted on the planning permission for ever!!! Keep the letter they send you back the number and the date are important for certification, My LA charge 12euro for a copy if your solicitor or bank wants one at the end!!!:eek:

Thats way wide of the mark and I'd rather you wouldnt post that type of comment here.

The commencement notice is valid (officially) only for the date you have given. However if you did not have an inspection carried out by a building control officer then who's to say when you started. You could always be asked to produce a cert. to back up your claim that you started on the specified date but again that is very unlikely.

No6

muffler wrote: »

Thats way wide of the mark and I'd rather you wouldnt post that type of comment here.

The commencement notice is valid (officially) only for the date you have given. However if you did not have an inspection carried out by a building control officer then who's to say when you started. You could always be asked to produce a cert. to back up your claim that you started on the specified date but again that is very unlikely.

I'm not sure muffler what your problem with my previous comment is, I'm trying to explain in laymans terms to the op that the commencement notice and the aknowledgement letter of same are important in terms of certification, It also allows the local authority to know when a permission is acted on therefore valid for the life of a permission, if it's not served during the life of the permission how can you prove that the permision hasn't expired before the commencement notice is served. I'm not sure how many inspections you have had from your building control officer but I can safely say where I am based they do not inspect sites on the date shown as the start date on the form. My point relating to the cost of replacing the aknowledgement letter is simply that if the letter is lost your solicitor may require a copy to be included with the certificates of compliance which are included in the deeds of the property so try not to loose it!!

Poor Uncle Tom

Sparky78 wrote: »

How long is the commencement notice valid for?
I sent 1 in about 3 months ago and only started this week.
Would this be a problem?

Thanks

If your site was inspected by BC it would be a problem. Your Commencenent Notice is not valid. You have between 14 and 28 days notice to give the LA before you start construction, 90 days is way outside this time frame. You will probably get away with it because sites are getting very little policeing from BC right now. When the LA's see potential income from fines from BC you can bet they will be inspecting every site more then once during a build.

sydthebeat

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

If your site was inspected by BC it would be a problem. Your Commencenent Notice is not valid. You have between 14 and 28 days notice to give the LA before you start construction, 90 days is way outside this time frame. You will probably get away with it because sites are getting very little policeing from BC right now. When the LA's see potential income from fines from BC you can bet they will be inspecting every site more then once during a build.

i may be wrong here, but i thought that if Bc were to inspect a build, they have to make all inspections as necessary from foundations to completion. I didnt think they could or would visit when a build is part complete??

RKQ

Above is going abit off topic. Might be confusing to the layperson.
Building Control just don't seem to have the manpower to inspect domestic houses or extensions.

Seem to remember something about "legal responcilility". There may be a slight legal requirement / or inferred responcibility if BC were to regularly inspect extensions - will try and find appropiate ruling or guideline.

Never seen BC on a Domestic site in 15 years!:)

Spartie I do hope it was posted first thing this morning.
Your Builder doesn't want you to send it in? - has he got something to hide? worrying!

muffler

No6 wrote: »

I'm not sure muffler what your problem with my previous comment is

Can you go back and look at the specific question the OP asked and then look at your answer.

No6

Muffler apologies if I have caused confusion. I was reponding to the post immediately above the offending one which I quoted where the query was in relation to a delayed start. You are absolutely right at this point in the thread it has no relevance to the original post other than it is on the subject of commencement notices. Perhaps I should have mentioned as it is outside the 28 day period it is technically invalid but as can be seen from other posts there are virtually no inspecitions and / or enforcement he shouldn't worry to much about it. I wouldn't expect any building control authority would do anything about it either and if he sent in a new one it would probably be send back. I find the Local authority's use commencement notices primarily as the trigger to issue invoices for the levies attached to planning permissions. Theres their income from building control already Uncle Tom!!!

Poor Uncle Tom

I do agree with most of what you say No6, I just seem to have had some different experiences with BC then most of the above posts. We are currently supervising 82 builds. 16 of those have had random inspections (about 20%) all ok I might add, I happen to know the BC officers involved and they all say the same, inspections are happening all the time and the notifications of those go directly to the applicants, not the supervisors. I would say some of your sites have most likely been inspected, (about 20%) you just dont know it.

No6

Thanks for that Uncle Tom, they are definately a lot more laid back around here, I mean horizontal!! None of my clients has ever told me of an inspection by building control, the only contact I ever have with them is when someone makes a complaint about something which happens on the very odd occaision.

RKQ

I have to agree No.6. I've never had an inspection in 15 years in the South East. Never had a client inform me of any communication from Building Control (Apart from receipt of Commencement Notice) Believe me if any had received a "notification", I'd know!
Human nature - It would frighten them. They'd ring me immediately for advice.

Well Tom you are currently supervising 82 builds - all Domestic? I was and am referring to individual domestic houses and extensions, as started by OP above. I'm not talking about Housing Estates, Retail or Commercial.

I've had inspections on Commercial developments - haven't we all.:D

muffler

From a personal point of view I have had (clients) only 2 inspections since 92. one was just a random call while the other was a deliberately planned inspection after the client kicked up a bit of a fuss about having to pay the £25 fee back in 98.

sinnerboy

10 years in UK - my experience was to expect many , many random and regular visits from BC . Even a modest domestic extension would trigger at least 1 visit. When they said jump - the answer was always "how high?" . Clients , builders Architects - all deffered .

Since '95 in Ireland - only 1 ten minute cursory superficial visit on a multi unit apartment development , triggered by a complaint about dirty roads due to site traffic . That's all .

muffler

I recall the head BC officer here in Donegal telling us (about 10 years ago) that in relation to "one off houses" they had set themselves a target of of carrying out 1 inspection on 15% of the houses.

He was optimistic.

Spartie

RKQ wrote: »

Above is going abit off topic. Might be confusing to the layperson.
Building Control just don't seem to have the manpower to inspect domestic houses or extensions.

Seem to remember something about "legal responcilility". There may be a slight legal requirement / or inferred responcibility if BC were to regularly inspect extensions - will try and find appropiate ruling or guideline.

Never seen BC on a Domestic site in 15 years!:)

Spartie I do hope it was posted first thing this morning.
Your Builder doesn't want you to send it in? - has he got something to hide? worrying!

Hi Everyone


Thankyou all for your advice and yeah (RKQ) it was posted bright and early this morning. I suspect builders are feeling the crunch right now and perhaps that was his thinking. It is good to get others opinions though as this is definately not my area of expertise.

Poor Uncle Tom

RKQ wrote: »

...currently supervising 82 builds - all Domestic? I was and am referring to individual domestic houses and extensions, as started by OP above. I'm not talking about Housing Estates..

The 82 I mention are all one off domestics. We have 3 multiple house developments under supervision as well and we only got one visit on one of those, again purely to look around, checking thresholds, door widths, spaces in the WC's.

I seem to have grabbed the thorny end of the stick when it comes to BC site inspections. But as I said ALL inspections were ok. At least when certifying Building Regs I have that in wrighting from BC.

RKQ

Well done Spartie, its for the best.
Alot of Builers seem "shy" at times but its probably nothing to worry about... invest a few euro in the Homebond manual. It will help you greatly.

No6

muffler wrote: »

I recall the head BC officer here in Donegal telling us (about 10 years ago) that in relation to "one off houses" they had set themselves a target of of carrying out 1 inspection on 15% of the houses.

He was optimistic.

I think in Mayo they have set themselves the very achievable target of 0 inspections of 100% of the houses!!!:D As far as I can see they only respond to complaints here. You seem to have a very active Building Controll Section Uncle Tom where in the country are you? (so we can all avoid it!!!:D) Around here the only one the builders worry about is the homebond man (when he is involved!!) He's like God!!:D

muffler

No6 wrote: »

As far as I can see they only respond to complaints here.

Pretty much the same setup in Donegal.