Civ 3 and Civ 4

mountainyman

Anyone kow where I can buy Civ 3 quite cheaply?

And which do like best civ 3 or civ 4.

I prefer civ 3 because it works better but I like europa universalis best.

Spear

mountainyman wrote: »

Anyone kow where I can buy Civ 3 quite cheaply?

And which do like best civ 3 or civ 4.

I prefer civ 3 because it works better but I like europa universalis best.

€6 for the complete pack of Civ3 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Civilization-III-Complete-PC-CD/dp/B0017TDGG8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1226148551&sr=8-1

Fionnanc

Civ 4 Complete 15 euro in Zavvi. Miles ahead of civ 3

theCzar

With each new civ, there's usually something I couldn't give up to play the older versions. Moving from civ2 to civ3, I loved the way maintenance wasn't deducted in sheilds from a supporting city, and now I couldn't go back to civ3 because of the stupid corruption that reduced every city too far from your capital to a useless waste of space.

Add to that Civ4's far better government "civics" system and much more interesting promotion orientated combat system.

Oh, and it looks better. 15 euro is a great deal, I'd go for that before Zavvi shuts its doors.

Mind you, I still play Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri which has the same unit support system as Civ2 because of its brilliant diplomacy and customisable units.

Sephiroth_dude

civ 4 beyond the sword is good too.

Sand

Alpha Centauri was/is awesome. Would be great to see a remake. Think the closest thing so far is a mod for Civ 4. But I am currently hooked by Europa Universalis 3. Prussia uber alles!

theCzar

Sand wrote: »

Alpha Centauri was/is awesome. Would be great to see a remake. Think the closest thing so far is a mod for Civ 4. But I am currently hooked by Europa Universalis 3. Prussia uber alles!

Its good then is it? I was thinking of getting it but If I was (hypothetically) not all that "grabbed" by EU2, would I be impressed by the changes in EU3?

I worry that the lack of set objectives is a recipe for aimlessness and ennui...

Sand

You really, really need to get EU3 complete - with the Napoleons Ambition and In Nomine expansions included. Vanilla EU3 is fairly terrible apparently. The expansions make it the game it should have been.

Theres missions, which help the AI stick to somewhat historical expansion and can give you short term goals too.

Some of them are very ****ing stupid hower - I just started a new game as Leinster...first mission "Save the Irish people in Meath!"

Yeah, a war with England thats what I want to do.

A word of warning, it is impossible to get past 1410 as an Irish minor without cheating. Not so much cheating as in giving yourself ducats and stuff, but cheating as in keeping the English from steamrolling you in about 5 minutes. Not cheating simply isnt an option. Theyre very powerful, you are very weak. No matter how nice you are to them, the AI still sees "I am strong, they are weak.....ATTACK!!!!!" and they will use insults, break alliances and so on to clear away your diplomatic efforts so they can attack you. Theyre are no local power that can protect you - France is too far away, Scotland and the other Irish minors are all as weak, and will dishonour any alliance if it means going up against England.

Pretty much I do it by loading up a save game as England and declaring war on France. That tends to keep them busy for a few years.

Eventually, I might be able to build a navy to rival Englands, in which case I should become effectively invulnerable, but that is a *long* way off. Right now Im just concentrating on trading and trying to get some ducats together to save up to build that fleet. That is going to take 40-50 years. At least.

For starting off and or a challenge that is actually viable, France, England, Castille, Austria all make good choices. There are some second rank powers too like Brandenburg which make for a very enjoyable game if you can get HRE, youre unstoppable. Trading powers like Venice are also good.

But the Irish minors are there simply to make up the numbers. They arent viable choices to play unless you cheat a bit to give yourself some breathing room.

theCzar

Sand wrote: »

...

Ok... so drifting ever further off topic but in for a penny etc.

When I played EU2 as Leinster, there was no England, there was only 7 players or something on a world map It was just "rebel" over nearly all of Europe. I might give it go, it does sound like a suitably ambitious game.

Sand wrote: »

A word of warning, it is impossible to get past 1410 as an Irish minor without cheating

Why didn't our ancestor's think of that!

Sand

Why didn't our ancestor's think of that!

Yeah, if only they had though of taking charge of England for a day and immediately declaring war on France.

Fighting a war with France is the equivalent of being set on fire and thrown in front of a speeding bus. Theyre monstrous, wave after wave after wave after wave after wave after wave of high morale armies.

England got so badly done in Ive had to take control of them to try ensure they can hold off Scotland...I dont think the world is ready for a Scottish Empire.

When I played EU2 as Leinster, there was no England, there was only 7 players or something on a world map It was just "rebel" over nearly all of Europe. I might give it go, it does sound like a suitably ambitious game.

Theres hundreds of states to play as, but some of them are easy [France] and some of them were never intended as realistic options to play.

Sephiroth_dude

I played civ 4 everyday for about two wks last summer,I loved it and was obsessed with it but then sadly I lost interest in it :-/ gonna give it another go though as its bee ages.

smithy1981

Civ 3 complete is only 4.99 euro on steam.

vibe666

i have to admit, I've really been enjoying the console version they did, civ revolution. it was frustrating at times due to the massive over simplification of some areas of the game, but at it's heart of it i think it kept the core of what civ is all about and i soon got used to it but there's still a lot of missing features and depth removed which is frustrating when you want to do something in the game that you could have done easily in civ4 but is impossible in civ rev.

still a good intro to the game for non-pc gamers curius about strat games.

PeterHughes

I got Civ 4 bundle from the steam games website, it includes original game plus both expansion packs. Beyond the Sword is my favourite at the moment.

Rev Hellfire

Yeah Beyond the Sword is great, we're due to start another game of it, once Max decides which one is best

The guy

I'd recommend Civ 3 conquests over any other Civ.

pwd

I liked civ 3 the best. Civ 4 was a big let down I thought. Dumbed it down or something

theCzar

civ4 is a lot more intricate than civ 3 I think, civ3 was almost a dumbed down version of civ2!

Rybka

theCzar wrote: »

civ4 is a lot more intricate than civ 3 I think, civ3 was almost a dumbed down version of civ2!

Are you serious? I thought Civ3 was one of the best games ever and found Civ4 just a dumbed down game for the Playstation generation. Was I wrong? What are these intracacies? Might give it another go.

Just realised you are taliking about Civ2 over Civ3. Don't agree 2 was better than 3, but 4 was so poor.

theCzar

Rybka wrote: »

Are you serious? I thought Civ3 was one of the best games ever and found Civ4 just a dumbed down game for the Playstation generation. Was I wrong? What are these intracacies? Might give it another go.

Just realised you are taliking about Civ2 over Civ3. Don't agree 2 was better than 3, but 4 was so poor.

as to which you prefer, it will probably come down to personal taste but briefly as I can manage:

I think combat has seen the biggest overhaul. Definitely makes civ3 seem very simple by comparison, "strength" replacing Attack/Defence. Some units get bonuses while defending like longbows, making them natural defenders but you don't have stupid scenarios where a medieval infantry can attack and kill cavalry because he's attacking. Further, the combat effectiveness of a unit is directly related to the units health so whereas an infantry on one bar of health fought just as tigerishly as a full health infantry in civ3, now as the unit is weakened, his ability to fight is reduced. The much slower heal rate requiring medics and a much slower rate of advance, it makes for a much more realistic combat experience.

Add in inherent bonuses so chariots beat axemen who beat swords and spears who beat chariots, the defensive bonuses that demand siege, perhaps over multiple turns. The promotion system to reward veterans with specific strengths rather simply another bar of health. A civ4 army is infinitely more varied and complicated than a civ3 "40 gallic swordsmen" army.

The introduction of city maintenance instead of building maintenance has obsoleted the infinite urban sprawl of previous civs. The emphasis is on building good cities as opposed to lots of cities but more than that, it means a city captured (or built) far away may be expensive to maintain but its not reduced to pathetic uselessness by civ3's rather silly shield sapping corruption.

The resources system has been expanded, with city health (replacing pollution) and city happiness boosting resources (maybe civ3 had this as well, I actually can't remember)

The reintroduction of Alpha Centauri government model (long overdue, should have been in civ3) makes tailoring your government more intricate, as you trade off the pros and cons of various civic styles.

Some aspects of civ4 have been streamlined, but shouldn't be confused with simplifications. City revolt has been replaced with steady unhappiness which is just as crippling and harder to simply tweak than civ3's all or nothing philosophy. City health keeps the incentive to build environmental buildings without the need to have a dozen workers bombing around infinite movement railroad whacking pollution.

Diplomacy is more or less the same IIRC, the defensive pact is rather more realistic, can't sign them with your upcoming enemies allies and then make sure he attacks your territory first to make them all declare war on their erstwhile friend. The addition of vassals and capitulation by the addon packs is terrific. You can no longer sell techs for large sums of gold/turn, only lump sums and other techs, so you can't adopt the good old civ3 tactic of putting the whole planet in hock

There are more techs, and I believe (I have not counted) more units without falling into the Call to Power trap of adding more for the sake of more.

Don't know if that makes any sense and I'd be interested to hear any ways in which you think it has been dumbed down, but that's two cents... or maybe a euro actually, not as brief as I intended.

More choices, more options and a much more complicated and realistic combat system.

Rybka

Thanks Czar, that was a pretty full answer.

I don't remember why I hated 4 so much. It was the only game I have ever pre-ordered and also the game that disappointed me the most. I uninstalled one week after receiving and went back to cleaning polution.

Your reply makes me think perhaps I was missing something and did not give it a big enough chance. I will order the expansions and give it another go.

Thank again.

theCzar

No problem, I presume TakeTwo will be in touch about my remuneration...

It took me quite a while to get used to the changes and as far as I remember after a week of play, I was pretty nonplussed by most of the changes. Now I honestly couldn't go back. If you like Civ games, I think you'll get a lot out of civ4.

BTS+patch add a lot of content to what was originally included in civ4 vanilla. I never mentioned religion, which forms a key part of diplomacy (if not much else), adopting a powerful neighbours faith is vital on the harder difficulty settings. I would also add that there's much more economically, especially with BTS, corporations and some powerful trade boosting buildings allowing you adopt a path of "mostly" peace and still win. I have never used the "form colony" option to detach part of your overseas empire as I'm blood thirsty war monger :pac:

Safri

if your getting civ 4 i'd also recommend getting beyond the sword, it adds alot of content, and the rhys and fall of civ mod is epic

Rybka

Thanks Safri, I ordered 'Civ Complete'. I assume that includes 'Beyond the Sword'.

Not too sure when I will play it though, started playing Heart of Iron Doomsday again (another game I was pretty disappointed with first time) - it does not seem too bad second time around. Heart of Iron 3 is due out this year - looking forward to that.