Bohs in court

SantryRed

Benedict XVI wrote: »

What makes you think that all current fans will stop going if there is a change in structure like I described ?

Yes there will be fans who will say 'I'm not going cos my club are no longer the way they were', but there will still be fans who will go anyway, give it time and if the product is good enough the people will come back, plus you will have new fans that will support the new clubs.

LOI fans around here seem to be afraid of new fans

HOw would you feel if the team you supported where merged with the biggest rivals?

If they do that, I'm gone. Wouldn't support the league again.

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

If they do that, I'm gone. Wouldn't support the league again.

If the league returned to semi professional / amateur status would you still be as involved as you are now?

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If the league returned to semi professional / amateur status would you still be as involved as you are now?

Yes. I am. Shels are part time. I support them even more than I did than when they were full-time. Feel more connected to the club.

I was responding to Benedicts point of merging clubs. That wouldn't work.

podge018

Bohs must cut wages

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/irish/bohs-must-cut-wages-1529235.html

League winning Bohemians players will be obliged to take pay decrease to balance the clubs budget following court decision

Saturday November 08 2008

The players from Bohemians' league-winning team will be among those to feel the after effects from yesterday's court case which will delay the club's plan to complete the €60m sale of Dalymount Park.

Bohs may have won the league title with four games to spare and can set a league record for points won in a season if they win just one of their last two league games, the first one tonight away to Cobh Ramblers (Bohs currently have 79 points and the all-time record is the 80-point tally reached by Dundalk in 1982).

But one of the side effects of a decision which went against the club in the Four Courts yesterday will be a slashing of the club's playing budget, which will see the players and the coaching staff being asked to take a significant pay cut.


"We're still dealing with the aftermath of the verdict yesterday but it's likely that we'll have to make cuts across the board and that means in the squad too, we might have to ask the players to examine their contracts and take a pay cut, maybe in the region of 30pc, and any players who re-sign with us will be doing so for less money," a club source said today.

"Everyone has to be realistic, the money that has been in the game for the last 10 years is not there any more and players need to accept that."

Reducing the wage bill is a necessity for Bohs as failure to do so could see them docked points or relegated. Under the Salary Cost Protocol, to which all clubs signed up two years ago, clubs can only spend up to 65pc of their income on players' wages. Bohs managed to stay under that 65pc mark last season because they were able to class money from Carroll through the property deal as income, but that won't be the case next season.

So, unless Bohs get rid of players, ask the remaining players to take a substantial wage cut and only re-sign players with new contracts on considerably less money, they will be in serious trouble.

Yesterday as the Bohs squad were going through the final preparation for tonight's game in Cobh, the rest of the club had their minds pitched on Court No 10 in the Four Courts, where a verdict went against the Gypsies in their battle with property company Albion.

The judge ruled that Bohs do have an issue with Albion over the proposed sale of land at Dalymount and that the matter has to be cleared up between the two parties before Bohs can proceed with the plan to sell Dalymount to developer Liam Carroll and his Danninger company, a deal which was due to see Bohs pocket €40m in cash and also get a new stadium, in Harristown on Dublin's northside, built for them.

No one knows what the next move will be, and in the words of one club source, "it lies in the hands of Liam Carroll now".

Bohs had one victory in the court yesterday when the judge ruled that no contract had been signed between Bohs and Albion for the sale of part of Dalymount -- under that deal, Bohs would sell part of the Tramway End to Albion and in return get a cash payment and also have corporate boxes built for the club by Albion.

But the substantial fact to emerge from the court was that Bohs had promised to sell the land to Albion, that the deal was effectively in place, and that Bohs now have to deal with Albion to sort out how they resolve the situation.

One option for Bohs would be to simply pay off Albion, hand them a cash settlement to finish their interest in the Dalymount site so they can be free from Albion and proceed with the €60m Carroll deal. With €40m in cash on the way -- if the Carroll deal proceeds -- Bohs can afford to lose some of that cash if it means sealing the deal and getting their new home as well as the money.

Another option would be to play hard-ball with Albion, to appeal yesterday's decision, which could result in a lengthy court case which would then have implications for Albion's plans for the overall development of the site at Phibboro Shopping Centre -- a delay would see Albion run very close to the time limit of their planning application for their project.

Or Bohs could just sit tight and see how things pan out, especially in the property market. Bohs have received €2.5m in non-refundable deposits from Carroll since the parties starting working in tandem and that cash has given them some breathing space, another cash injection by Carroll would offer the time to think.

Nervous time to be a footballer, though.

- Aidan Fitzmaurice

SantryRed

I'm absolutely delighted for Bohs:D

podge018

that's the spirit.....

_blank_

The cheek of Bohs fans coming on to MBs and whinging about fans of other clubs sticking the boot in.

Karma lads. It's a real bitch.

podge018

Two wrongs and all that.

Benedict XVI

bohsman wrote: »

Dont know who you support but say the FA forced Liverpool and Everton to merge, Man U and Man C merged, Arsenal and Spurs, Portsmouth and Southampton etc etc would you support these new teams and be delighted that your teams 120 year history has been wiped out.

All the above clubs are playing in popular leagues and turning over millions of pounds each year, there is no need for the leagues they are in to be dramatically restructured

There have been a lot of mergers of English clubs at Conference level and below.

John_C wrote: »

Good point, we should merge Dublin with Offaly and split Kilkenny in two to make the Leinster Hurling Championship more competitive.

In the last few years there have been a lot of mergers of GAA clubs all over the country.

Xavi6 wrote: »

No true fans of a current club would go near a league for of merged teams, and rightly so. These clubs have existed for over a century and loyalties have been passed down from generation to generation. It's got absolutely nothing to do with fearing change or new fans. I would love to see 10,000 fans in Tolka every week, but only if it was for a Shels came and not some farcical club born out of an FAI marketing ploy.

No thanks.

Older fans will be suspicious at first but they will return to see live football (and if the product is decent obviously).

What is a 'true fan' anyway, I don't believe that such a thing exists.

gimmick wrote: »

That is the biggest load of shiiite I have ever seen on this board.Are you seriously saying that this "friend" of yours will only support a winning team? Should everyone stop supporting their team because they may not win silverware this season?

Bloody hell, amazing. Absolutely astonishing rubbish.

This 'friend ' of mine has always had a passing interest in Drogheda. Over the past few years he has started going to games again, as much to introduce his son to the games as much as anything.

If they drop a division and are no longer competitive I am sure the instances of the son nagging his dad to go and see the Drogs will be become less and less

gimmick wrote: »

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Utter tripe. When the league is scrapped will you be happy to have no "national" team? Go away, and try and discuss something you actually know about.

I said scrap the league and start over, not scrap it for ever.

bohsman

Benedict XVI wrote: »

All the above clubs are playing in popular leagues and turning over millions of pounds each year, there is no need for the leagues they are in to be dramatically restructured

There have been a lot of mergers of English clubs at Conference level and below.

But some people that dont follow it now might take an interest. Bubble could easily burst in England, especially if Platini gets his way.

bohsman

Des wrote: »

The cheek of Bohs fans coming on to MBs and whinging about fans of other clubs sticking the boot in.

Karma lads. It's a real bitch.

Im embarrased to say that I posted on Shels and Rovers forums wishing both sets of fans luck after Shels relegation and Rovers 4% group forming. Im not going to take it back either, Ill let you keep your karma.

Pure Cork

Benedict XVI wrote: »

In the last few years there have been a lot of mergers of GAA clubs all over the country.

Fair enough. You still haven't answered my question why GAA league games get sh*t attendances. Have a think about it.

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Older fans will be suspicious at first but they will return to see live football (and if the product is decent obviously).

Suspicious isn't the word. I'd imagine it would put a lot of the older generation off going to games. Which clubs do you envisage merging?

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I said scrap the league and start over, not scrap it for ever.

You still haven't come up with any solutions to the problems.
Money?
Stadia?

Benedict XVI wrote: »

See how it goes, if it fails so what, go back to the old setup.

After it fails, how could it go back to the current setup after all the mergers?

bohsman

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Older fans will be suspicious at first but they will return to see live football (and if the product is decent obviously).

Suspicious isnt the word Id use, there would be riots. I hope whatever club you support goes out of business so that youll think twice about wishing it on 22 clubs you have no interest in.

super_furry

One handy thing for Bohs is the fact that, with Rovers moving to Tallaght, Shelbourne will be looking for a new team to share Tolka with them. While it might take a while for Bohs fans' to adjust, I'm sure they'll get used to eventually.

Nalz

Jaysus alot of smart remarks and nasty comments!

_blank_

Trilla wrote: »

Jaysus alot of smart remarks and nasty comments!

It was the same from some of the Bohs fans when Shels were in trouble.

What goes around, comes around.

Also.

It's funny to see your rivals in trouble.

I really, really hope Bohs don't go out of business, but a few seasons in the First Division would really cop a few of you on, imo.

super_furry

And just how supportive of Rovers and Shels have Bohemians fans been during their troubles? Thomas Davis banners anyone?

Gavin "shels"

super_furry wrote: »

One handy thing for Bohs is the fact that, with Rovers moving to Tallaght, Shelbourne will be looking for a new team to share Tolka with them. While it might take a while for Bohs fans' to adjust, I'm sure they'll get used to eventually.

I doubt it, Rovers were a thorn in our sides, right a extra revenue source but the amount spent on keeping the pitch in top notch condition cost alot with two teams playing on it all season.

LuckyLloyd

Gavin shels wrote: »

I doubt it, Rovers were a thorn in our sides, right a extra revenue source but the amount spent on keeping the pitch in top notch condition cost alot with two teams playing on it all season.

Come on now. Surely that extra revenue charged from Rovers was fixed at a rate which would cover the additional groundskeeping costs accrued from having double the amount of competitive league matches (and then some)?

And if it wasn't then, LOLZ!

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Come on now. Surely that extra revenue charged from Rovers was fixed at a rate which would cover the additional groundskeeping costs accrued from having double the amount of competitive league matches (and then some)?

And if it wasn't then, LOLZ!

That's not the issue here.

The issue is keeping the ground in top condition, this is nigh on impossible with games on it every single week of the season.

Actually, our groundsman was nominated for Groundsman of the Year, as it happens.

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

That's not the issue here.

The issue is keeping the ground in top condition, this is nigh on impossible with games on it every single week of the season.

Actually, our groundsman was nominated for Groundsman of the Year, as it happens.

Okey dokey. But surely you weigh up the competing concerns of revenue generation / maintenance difficulty and costs / affect on range of football that can be played and only do it if it benefits you on the whole, right?

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Okey dokey. But surely you weigh up the competing concerns of revenue generation / maintenance difficulty and costs / affect on range of football that can be played and only do it if it benefits you on the whole, right?

Yeah, I'm sure the club will miss the Rovers revenue. No doubt about that.

bohsman

super_furry wrote: »

One handy thing for Bohs is the fact that, with Rovers moving to Tallaght, Shelbourne will be looking for a new team to share Tolka with them. While it might take a while for Bohs fans' to adjust, I'm sure they'll get used to eventually.

How do you see this happening? Tolka will be gone before long before Dalymount.

CiaranC

stovelid

bohsman wrote: »

Suspicious isnt the word Id use, there would be riots. I hope whatever club you support goes out of business so that youll think twice about wishing it on 22 clubs you have no interest in.

As much I acknowledge that the league need real management, it beggars belief that any (supposed) football fans would even suggest merging teams. I'd rather Rovers just wound up than get absorbed into some sh*te franchise with one of our rivals. It just highlights the fact that deep down, most people don't consider LOI teams to be 'real'. And that whenever a LOI crisis occurs, the people with all the answers are the ones that wouldn't be caught dead at a game. And never will.

SectionF

stovelid wrote: »

As much I acknowledge that the league need real management, it beggars belief that any (supposed) football fans would even suggest merging teams. I'd rather Rovers just wound up than get absorbed into some sh*te franchise with one of our rivals. It just highlights the fact that deep down, most people don't consider LOI teams to be 'real'. And that whenever a LOI crisis occurs, the people with all the answers are the ones that wouldn't be caught dead at a game. And never will.

As far as I can see, there is just one dingbat making that proposal, and it is getting far too much attention.

I understand your point about being real. But, deep down, the problem for most people is that LoI teams are real, and not just on the telly.

Benedict XVI

stovelid wrote: »

As much I acknowledge that the league need real management, it beggars belief that any (supposed) football fans would even suggest merging teams. I'd rather Rovers just wound up than get absorbed into some sh*te franchise with one of our rivals. It just highlights the fact that deep down, most people don't consider LOI teams to be 'real'. And that whenever a LOI crisis occurs, the people with all the answers are the ones that wouldn't be caught dead at a game. And never will.

Eventhough I have suggested a franchise solution I do not believe it will ever happen.

The FAI would never make such a bold move the and the LOI fans would rather see their clubs die and have no football than move forward.

_blank_

You don't understand football if you want Franchise Football.

djpbarry

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The FAI would never make such a bold move the and the LOI fans would rather see their clubs die and have no football than move forward.

The "franchise" approach will only work in countries that don't have a history of football support, such as the US and Australia. It ain't going to work here, or in any other European nation, I'd imagine. If large scale mergers took place in Ireland, that would be the final death knell for professional football here, as the core support would be lost. You can’t expect fans to just transfer their loyalty from one football club to another.

stovelid

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The FAI would never make such a bold move the and the LOI fans would rather see their clubs die and have no football than move forward.

Any real football fan would not see this as a move 'forward'.

I think the problem here is the obsession with making LOI a good 'product'. The majority of posters here support a handful of very successful, 'multinational' teams, so it's natural to think of fans automatically opting to support 'winners'.

The reality of football support for many people is about camaraderie, local attachment, membership and tradition. These are things that are often exclusive of success on the field or how well your team plays. These people would love their team to one day be huge, but they don't make their support conditional on their team being successful.

All you want is for your national association, league and local fans to play their part in moving you toward that success.

Sadly, in Ireland, all three have conspired to do the opposite.