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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning approved]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19 TnxM17


    Great post - I think the difference between your view and @seaslacker is that you are for Park & Ride.

    While if the GRR is not built Sealacker is for Packing Up & Not Riding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭ Limerick74


    Don't see many recent posts since the above warning on this forum being: on the subject of the construction of the road as granted PP by ABP; or decisions on funding and contract aspects.

    Just the same old arguments going back and forth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭ KrisW1001


    [ deleted ]

    @Limerick74 Fair point, and apologies for contributing to the problem.

    I do think that perpetually delaying funding is how they’ll quietly can this project, but it’s a shame that this strategy will block and delay any other investment in fixing the problems that already exist around the N6.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    I thought I saw that posted somewhere but couldn't remember which thread. Even looked before I posted regarding cycling from barna, Spiddal & Moycullen.

    I've started a thread on this board to carry on the discussion. Folks are free to wander over there and discuss whether this road is a colossal waste of money that won't fix a thing and instead make things worse or a necessity required to stop Galway dying under a blanket of cars




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,353 ✭✭✭✭ jmayo


    Are you seriously saying people living in say Barna should now cycle to work in Ballybrit or the same with Moycullen?

    The problem with traffic in Galway is not frekaing tourists or people out for a jolly, but people trying to get places like work or for business.

    Sure it was such a pity that they hadn't the greenway in place so people could cycle across the city to get their covid vaccinations. 🙄

    I must tell a few people I know that have to traverse the city for work that they will get a greenway.

    FFS.

    Yes cycling is ok for short distances where there are roads set up for it.

    A lot of the people stuck in Galway traffic are not living in the environs of the city, but outside and have to cross the city.

    And no before the usual whining a lot of them are not living in one off houses in the middle of nowhere, but in towns and villages that offer cheaper property and accommodatuion than are available in Galway city and it's suburbs.

    Maybe they can really live the green dream and have one car in the village to share. 😯

    Besides that some people actually want to live in the area they grew up, persih the thought for them having such outlandish ideas.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Happy to continue to discuss it further in the thread linked above but I will just point out that Barna to Ballybrit is 12km, that's not a crazy cycle by any means. According to Google maps that's a 40 min cycle, I'd wager you'd do it in 30 mins or less on an ebike. Could you do it in that time during peak hours in a car, highly doubtful.

    As I said, happy to continue to discuss this in the other thread per mod request



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭ SeaSlacker


    Just to say DaCor is right to put this discussion into its own thread. Healthy thing to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭ Green Peter


    Maybe we could spend the money on putting a canopy over the existing roads for cyclists for the winter months. This would work well with the green party one car in the village brainwave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 OpinionN


    Or we could take that discussion....to a new thread.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,113 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    As expected, a Judicial Review of this approval has been lodged.





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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Not gonna lie, pretty happy about that :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    The Galway Ring Road is a core government policy at local and national level, the lynchpin of the Galway Transport Strategy, and a key part of the National Development Strategy. A planning system that cannot give the final okay to such an important infrastructure project in reasonable time, and whose approval is then routinely suspended for years on end to allow NIMBYs to argue on points of law which are utterly irrelevant to the merits of the project is indeed dysfunctional, and denial of this simple fact is what is costing this country housing, business, and industrial development on a daily basis.

    The government's reforms to the planning system can't come fast enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Thankfully the courts disagree with you

    The government's reforms to the planning system can't come fast enough.

    I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. They've already had a fair few shots across their bow in terms of how limited any changes can be. Step outside those limits and they've already been told the EU will challenge them in court, as well as challenges from any number of local groups and people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    Just like there is no realistic solution for Ireland's hospital waiting list problem that doesn't include building more hospitals, there is no realistic solution for Galway's transport problems that does not include building the ring road. It's a bit sad that some people seem so blinded by their beliefs that they cannot accept this simple fact, to the point that they are willing to condemn the people of Galway to years of pointless delays rather than admit that they are wrong and the road really is needed.

    Hand-waving claims about public transport magically solving these problems without any new roads are all well and good, but they simply aren't based in reality.

    Like I said, I don't live in Galway, and delays to investment in Galway are probably good for investments around me, but I still feel bad for them.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Disappointing also to see in a world of democratic backsliding that the Green Party seem to disagree with democracy. Candidates of parties supporting the Ring Road got over 50% of FPVs in the last election (I counted enough to get over 50 - O Cuiv, Naughten, Grealish, Kyne & Crowe). This is national and local Government policy with widespread support. I’d like to see the reaction if other TDs took judicial reviews against cycle lanes and called such projects “vandalism” in the Dail just because they don’t like them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,126 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    The flaws of that hospital analogy have already been pointed out to you; more hospitals don't create more sisk/injured people and there are plenty of initiatives to reduce hospital waiting lists which don't involve building hospitals by improving the general health of the population.

    Some level of new road building will almost certainly have to be part of the solution for Galway. The fallacy is that the proposed road is designed entirely to accommodate commuters and with no consideration whatsoever for public/active transport. Hand-waving claims about a ring road magically solving these problems without any new public/active transport are all well and good, but they simply aren't based in reality.

    It has been obvious from the beginning that this approach was going to run into difficulties (not least around government policy in relation to transport and climate change and their direction of travel). To build a transport strategy around a single road (one with limited chance of being built) was stupid in the extreme. The inevitable has happened and the ring road won't be delivered until the end the decade, if ever, and Galway is condemned to enormous congestion for many more years because, as things stand, very little can happen in the meantime. Your whinging that "some people seem so blinded by their beliefs that they cannot accept this simple fact" is truly hilarious.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    I would be more worried about your understanding of Democracy after reading this.

    The JR is been taken on a point of the GCRR been in line with National Policy.

    Why are you looking at candidates from the previous election?

    Why not count the current Galway West TD's, 2/5 are in the current Government who are responsible for this Policy been adopted ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭ El Tarangu


    I'm sure you are a good fellow and that you work hard for your family, but I think that many people will find this insufficient justification for spending €1bn on a road project.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    I have a perfectly good understanding of democracy. This seems to be a reasonably popular proposal in Galway, a majority of the votes in the last election went to candidates representing parties who were behind the scheme. If this was a deeply unpopular scheme in Galway, you can be sure that the candidates would have rowed in against it if they thought there was votes in it, like housing SHDs, or the M28 in Cork for example.

    You are right about the democratic right to object to such projects. The real solution here is adequate resourcing of the courts to deal with these matters in a quick manner. The M28 spent 2.5 years in the courts and in the end the project was found to have no faults.

    Is this the Climate Act you reference that 2/5 of the constituency’s TDs voted for?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    And its only a 18km road project at that. This to me is the bigger hurdle rather than the JR that is been taken here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    Why were you listing the 2016 politicians that were elected rather than those who were elected in 2020 for Galway West?

    This project has been in the pipeline prior to 2016 so even that is also just a snapshot. The National Policy is changing as the years have gone by.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Apologies for the lack of clarity. I picked out the 2 FF candidates, 2 FG candidates and Grealish from 2020 who combined got 50%+ of the vote. They didn’t all get elected but they got more than 50% of the FPVs. All ran on a pro-Ring Road platform.

    I can’t find any definitive information on what Sinn Fein think of the project from a quick Google and I know Catherine Connolly isn’t a massive fan, which completes the set of TDs elected in 2020.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    Ah ok going for First Pref vote based on the first count in 2020. Get ya. (Crowe actually never made it in 2016)

    SF are supporters of it, so you could have got your 4/5 if you just said elected reps in the 2020 election. Which probably looks better considering that 4/5 that you list are members of partys in the current Government who are responsible for this Climate Bill been adopted.

    Catherine Connolly TD has been consistent for decades on it and its previous version.



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭ KrisW1001


    @marno21 Sorry, but I have to call out that reasoning. You’re employing the same logical fallacy as the supporters of Brexit did in the UK, although I’m pretty sure that you’re not doing so deliberately, in the way they did.

    Still, you cannot just derive support for the ring-road based on the first-preference votes given to election candidates. People have multiple reasons for voting, and candidates for major parties don’t stand on one single issue. Also, support for the project amongst those candidates ranged from “it’s better than doing nothing” to “it’s the best possible solution”.

    ... and on the other side of the ballot-box, voters are not so ideologically driven that they would boycott a candidate simply because of their stance on a road project. We have seen that people don’t boycott candidates even on much more emotive issues like abortion, where counties with sizeable objection to repeal still returned TDs who supported it.

    As far as I can tell, there has been no well-conducted poll of Galway residents about this scheme, so there’s no justification for saying that “people in Galway” are either in favour of, or against the road.

    My own, pure conjecture, opinion is that if you asked them, the majority of the people in Galway only want the traffic fixed, and don’t really care whether that would happen via M6 or via a greatly improved public-transport and cycling system that pulled more commuters off the existing roads, so long as it happened.

    I also think that Galway City making their transport plan heavily dependent on M6 being built was at best ill-judged, and a worst a cynical exercise in kicking the can down the road.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,134 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    That Brexit supporter point of view actually crossed my mind after I posted it so I was aware, but I think here that the Ring Road is an achievable outcome vs the unclear outcome of Brexit. I do take your point about people being in favour of fixing the traffic vs being specifically in favour of the road, but there’s a sizeable proportion of people who simply want a road based solution and aren’t particularly interested in PT/cycling (same as I am with Cork based road projects).

    An important point as well is that it’s a very small proportion of Galway’s population who are expressing opinions about this project online. Most people aren’t posting on boards or tweeting about it so we’ll never know, but from the limited sample of people on Twitter I see, most people against the project are either Green Party members, environmental or the very pro cycling people you’d find on Twitter. This is, I hypothesise, a small proportion of the general Galway population.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭ DaCor




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