Radar Speed checks at night?

stifz

Forgive my ignorance but i did'nt think it possible to do speed checks with speed guns at night. What exactly are they tracking your lights?

Anyone been caught similar?

And before the beating sticks come out... Im not moaning about being done for speeding. I was in the wrong and accept the charge.:o

TheNog

Yeah we can do speed checks at night by locking onto the reg plate, headlights, your teeth;) to get the speed.

seamus

stifz wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but i did'nt think it possible to do speed checks with speed guns at night.

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Mena

Radar bounces radio waves off of objects, not light

testicle

It's laser, not radar.

stifz

Anyone ever installed a detector to their car? aparantly picks up radar and laser within 2 miles? I would assume there probably illegal though?

Anyone?

TheNog

stifz wrote: »

Anyone ever installed a detector to their car? aparantly picks up radar and laser within 2 miles? I would assume there probably illegal though?

Anyone?

Not illegal to own but illegal to use.

Sounds stupid cos it is stupid

stifz

sooooo.. to have it fitted in the car but off.. is not illegal? So there must then be a unit to detect the detector!! Theres a touch of austin powers to this..!!

Once spotted by the kind gentleman in a blue uniform i'm sure he'd then go about checking every light bulb and tyre for thread until something.. of interest.. comes up.

seamus

TheNog wrote: »

Not illegal to own but illegal to use.

Sounds stupid cos it is stupid

I'm not sure if this is true. I remember reading legislation which made it illegal to possess any device which was capable of indicating the existence or location of speed guns.

This technically renders all GPS devices in Ireland illegal.

It may also make reference to having the device in the vehicle - so as you say, it's not illegal to own one, but it is illegal to carry one in your vehicle.

I'll see if I can find the thread.

Alun

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is true. I remember reading legislation which made it illegal to possess any device which was capable of indicating the existence or location of speed guns.

This technically renders all GPS devices in Ireland illegal.

It may also make reference to having the device in the vehicle - so as you say, it's not illegal to own one, but it is illegal to carry one in your vehicle.

I'll see if I can find the thread.

I though that particular one had been (rightly!) debunked later by some of our friendly AGS / TC members?

cormie

yeah, something about the locations on GPS just being locations and not definitely where a camera is.

Pat Mustard

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is true. I remember reading legislation which made it illegal to possess any device which was capable of indicating the existence or location of speed guns.

This technically renders all GPS devices in Ireland illegal.

It may also make reference to having the device in the vehicle - so as you say, it's not illegal to own one, but it is illegal to carry one in your vehicle.

I'll see if I can find the thread.

Looks like yer right. Here's the thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055222200

Link to the statutory instrument: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/si/0050.html

Section of the statutory instrument:
"4. A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle to which is fitted, or in or on which is carried, a speed meter detector whether or not such device is actually in use."

cormie

A GPS can't detec them though, it only has history of where they have previously been known to be. If there's a new kid in town, it wont tell you hehe

seamus

I was 99% sure I posted in that thread.

Anyway, indeed it is legal to own a detector, but it's not legal to carry it in your vehicle, regardless of whether or not it's switched on.

The law in the UK definitely used to have that loophole, so people would just switch off their detectors if they saw a checkpoint. I'd imagine that's been changed over there too though.

stifz

So now we've agreed they are illegal.. How do the gardai detect a detector in use??

Anyone?:D

Anan1

stifz wrote: »

Anyone ever installed a detector to their car? aparantly picks up radar and laser within 2 miles? I would assume there probably illegal though?

Anyone?

A laser detector is a waste of time - all it does is tell you that you've just been caught. Laser jammers do work, though.

Lumen

stifz wrote: »

So now we've agreed they are illegal.. How do the gardai detect a detector in use??

If you're talking about laser jammers, they won't be able to get a reading.

They'll then pull you over and do you for using a jammer.

I've heard that in France they just get the driver to drive over the device, cutting down on the paperwork.

andrewh5

stifz wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but i did'nt think it possible to do speed checks with speed guns at night. What exactly are they tracking your lights?

Anyone been caught similar?

And before the beating sticks come out... Im not moaning about being done for speeding. I was in the wrong and accept the charge.:o

First of all they are NOT radar devices. Secondly they cannot be used accurately at night.

Anan1

Lumen wrote: »

If you're talking about laser jammers, they won't be able to get a reading.

They'll then pull you over and do you for using a jammer.

AFAIK, not being able to get a reading is quite a common occurrence even for cars without jammers.

stifz

andrewh5 wrote: »

First of all they are NOT radar devices. Secondly they cannot be used accurately at night.

Is this opinion or fact?

seamus

andrewh5 wrote: »

First of all they are NOT radar devices. Secondly they cannot be used accurately at night.

Would you care to offer some facts to back up your bull opinion?

Bandara

I've a detector fitting to mine, saved me 3 times from points/fines.

well worth it.

stifz

Hammertime wrote: »

I've a detector fitting to mine, saved me 3 times from points/fines.

well worth it.

As in non gps position of camera. an actual unit fitted to locate mobile traps?

andrewh5

seamus wrote: »

Would you care to offer some facts to back up your bull opinion?

Try googling laser guns before you start slinging the insults around. The UK police do not use them at night for that very reason. Fixed cameras are totally different. The hand held ones are not accurate at night as they have no flash!

You also have a right to challenge it in court and ask to see the last calibration test certificate for the device used. They have to be regularly calibrated. There was a very famous case in the UK where a driver did just that and the defence barrister pointed the gun at the judge and showed him that, according to the device, he was travelling at 30MPH!

andrewh5

stifz wrote: »

As in non gps position of camera. an actual unit fitted to locate mobile traps?

The Gardaí are obliged under EU law to notify the actual position that they will use mobile traps in. These settings can be added to a database and installed on a GPS device. I have one and it is updated regularly (via annual subscription). It will beep and show a warning when you are approaching a mobile area or a fixed camera. Well worth €35 a year!

seamus

andrewh5 wrote: »

Try googling laser guns before you start slinging the insults around. The UK police do not use them at night for that very reason. Fixed cameras are totally different. The hand held ones are not accurate at night as they have no flash!

a. If you think that's an insult, you've clearly lived a very happy life.
b. I try to not make a fool of myself, I do check these things out.

Radar speed detectors are not affected by the lack of light. There's a tiny chance of laser speed detectors being affected by outside sources, but it's an insignificant risk.

In Ireland to the best of my knowledge, you do not have to be issued with a picture of you speeding if you are pulled over by the Garda. So the lack of a flash is irrelevant.

You also have a right to challenge it in court and ask to see the last calibration test certificate for the device used. They have to be regularly calibrated.

Not in this country. There is no requirement on the part of the state to show that the device has been calibrated.

Alun

seamus wrote: »

Radar speed detectors are not affected by the lack of light. There's a tiny chance of laser speed detectors being affected by outside sources, but it's an insignificant risk.

They need to be aimed correctly though, which may be a problem in the dark.

Not in this country. There is no requirement on the part of the state to show that the device has been calibrated.

True. Which is, quite frankly, laughable. I couldn't believe it when I first heard this. Banana state indeed.

Marcus.Aurelius

andrewh5 wrote: »

First of all they are NOT radar devices. Secondly they cannot be used accurately at night.

eh where did you get that from?

Lasers work fine at night, they only require a reflective surface to return 2 or 3 beams to give distance and speed reading.

Methinks you've been misinformed.

Marcus.Aurelius

andrewh5 wrote: »

The Gardaí are obliged under EU law to notify the actual position that they will use mobile traps in. These settings can be added to a database and installed on a GPS device. I have one and it is updated regularly (via annual subscription). It will beep and show a warning when you are approaching a mobile area or a fixed camera. Well worth €35 a year!

Not true for mobile GATSO vans, they can be anywhere. At present, sites like irishspeedtraps.com are informed by drivers who come accross the devices. Fixed cameras are usually signposted, but this may change. :pac:

andrewh5

seamus wrote: »

a. If you think that's an insult, you've clearly lived a very happy life.
b. I try to not make a fool of myself, I do check these things out.

Radar speed detectors are not affected by the lack of light. There's a tiny chance of laser speed detectors being affected by outside sources, but it's an insignificant risk.

In Ireland to the best of my knowledge, you do not have to be issued with a picture of you speeding if you are pulled over by the Garda. So the lack of a flash is irrelevant.

Not in this country. There is no requirement on the part of the state to show that the device has been calibrated.

So the good old gardai assume guilt and give no proof of it! Wonderful! And they wonder why they are viewed with such disdain by most people.

Similarly with the calibration. They dfo need calibrating and a gards word that is has been should NEVER be acceptable as evidence that it has!

Clearly we need someone to have the balls to take a test case to the EU courts over this.

Bandara

stifz wrote: »

As in non gps position of camera. an actual unit fitted to locate mobile traps?

dashboard unit fitted, unit is called a Valentine one, I highly recommend it.

stifz

andrewh5 wrote: »

The Gardaí are obliged under EU law to notify the actual position that they will use mobile traps in. These settings can be added to a database and installed on a GPS device. I have one and it is updated regularly (via annual subscription). It will beep and show a warning when you are approaching a mobile area or a fixed camera. Well worth €35 a year!

Any idea where this is in hard copy? Also if would entertain me.. (if possible) would you mind seeing if on the old road (N4) about 2miles out of Enfield heading towards Moyvally there is a mobile trap spot right side of the road by Blackwater.

eringobragh

Hammertime wrote: »

dashboard unit fitted, unit is called a Valentine one, I highly recommend it.

You've pricey taste!! :pac: Do you have a V1 as well?? I thought I was the only one.:P

Bandara

eringobragh wrote: »

You've pricey taste!! :pac: Do you have a V1 as well?? I thought I was the only one.:P

I salute your impeccable taste Sir !

seamus

They need to be aimed correctly though, which may be a problem in the dark.

Apparently operator error accounts for the vast majority of failed or incorrect readings.

A good enough reason as any to get rid of the "gun", and require them all to sit on some kind of mounting or tripod.

Alun wrote: »

True. Which is, quite frankly, laughable. I couldn't believe it when I first heard this. Banana state indeed.

What worried me most when I first saw it is that the legislation specifically states this. If it was an oversight, I can understand that, but I've no idea how someone thought it was a good idea to specifically say that, "The device does not need to be working properly to secure a conviction".

stifz

eringobragh wrote: »

You've pricey taste!! :pac: Do you have a V1 as well?? I thought I was the only one.:P

just looked at the website.. jeez that guy looks demented!! Good system though front and back cover.

Have you ever had any reason to think it been detected?

For example a straight road 4 miles. on the 3rd mile the mob trap is located.. when does the device tell you?

eringobragh

Hammertime wrote: »

I salute your impeccable taste Sir !

Mission Imeccable I wouldn't rely to heavily on the V1 for the Laser Traps. You can be lucky however with its stellar laser scatter detection.

eringobragh

stifz wrote: »

just looked at the website.. jeez that guy looks demented!! Good system though front and back cover.

Have you ever had any reason to think it been detected?

For example a straight road 4 miles. on the 3rd mile the mob trap is located.. when does the device tell you?

Who MikeV lol he Does a bit!

Well I use it as a secondary for Laser detection. but you can get scatter from Laser source. The radar can get annoying in city limits for need to learn how to 'read' the bogey counter and strength meter. Coming up to a GATSO van you'll get a 300-400 metres which you need to react straight away. The ramp up uses a geiger like tone the closer you get to the source the more rempant it becomes.
It all depends on the traffic if theirs more cars they'll 'bounce' the RADAR signal further.

The V1 is undetectable by any electronic device the garda claim to use.

eringobragh

seamus wrote: »

What worried me most when I first saw it is that the legislation specifically states this. If it was an oversight, I can understand that, but I've no idea how someone thought it was a good idea to specifically say that, "The device does not need to be working properly to secure a conviction".

The LIDAR guns are self calibrated. It will fail the Power On Self Test if it detects any issues. ANyhow the calobrated guns are still subject to the 'Slip effect' which can get a higher reading off anything with a flick on the wrist :eek:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/09_september/12/inside.shtml

bottletops

I notice the Radar Gun being mentioned a lot here. I was told by a Garda friend of mine that they only use Laser guns now, as their hand-held device... and calibration certs do NOT have to be provided in court.

stifz

Sorry to clear that up... It was a laser and NOT a radar gun. My fault typo in the title.

ironclaw

Laser guns cannot be used and night and if I was targeted with one.. Cya in Court boys

1) You can't accurately see the plate at night. Reasonable doubt they could have targeted my windscreen (deflected / refraction of the laser beam), the car behind me, the road surface....

2) Calibration? They don't show the certs for calibration? According to the suppliers of the Garda guns the calibration should be conducted "daily"

"XXXSUPPLIERXXX recommends that this test be performed at regular intervals (daily). We also suggest
a test area be permanently installed in a convenient location. The test area must establish a
permanent known distance between a target and a shooting mark."

The humidity of the day could be enough to get you off the ticket in many countries. We don't even tell a road user how far they were from the gun when targeted. And heres another one, if the gun is 5 degress or more off axis to the license plate the error is upwards of 2 miles per hour.

BTW, don't bother with detectors. Its too late when they go off. Radar is seldom used regardless except for Gatso etc.

eringobragh

ironclaw wrote: »

Laser guns cannot be used and night and if I was targeted with one.. Cya in Court boys

1) You can't accurately see the plate at night. Reasonable doubt they could have targeted my windscreen (deflected / refraction of the laser beam), the car behind me, the road surface....

Yes you can! They aim at the Headlight as stated in the LIDAR manual. They don't need to just aim for the plate. LIDAR is more effective during the night

ironclaw wrote: »

2) Calibration? They don't show the certs for calibration? According to the suppliers of the Garda guns the calibration should be conducted "daily"

Calibration that doesn't wash over here theres something in the Road Traffic Act about a calibration not required. Besides the Guns are self calibrated.(However they do get annual calibration from time to time). If your going to use any defence I'd use the 'Slip Effect' that those guns are prone to.

ironclaw wrote: »

The humidity of the day could be enough to get you off the ticket in many countries. We don't even tell a road user how far they were from the gun when targeted.

LIDAR guns are more advanced then you think. The Ultralyte (Gun the Garda use) has a weather mode.

ironclaw wrote: »

And heres another one, if the gun is 5 degress or more off axis to the license plate the error is upwards of 2 miles per hour.

WRONG AGAIN! Cosine error will always go in the drivers favour!

ironclaw wrote: »

.

BTW, don't bother with detectors. Its too late when they go off. Radar is seldom used regardless except for Gatso etc.

Hmmm, Sounds as if your countermeasures aren't up to scratch, and you were caught speeding......Let me guess you've a Cobra Radar Detector . Do your research and you'll soon find answers on how to deal with garda laser efficiently

stek

andrewh5 wrote: »

First of all they are NOT radar devices. Secondly they cannot be used accurately at night.

I believe they will not work in fog.

ironclaw

stek wrote: »

I believe they will not work in fog.

Correct. And the Weather mode is dufunct as you could reasonably argue on alot of grounds.

Counter measures? Your talking to the right person...

We don't even tell a road user how far they were from the gun when targeted.

That arguement still stands. There was a test case in Mullingar I believe.

According to the suppliers of the Garda guns the calibration should be conducted "daily"

You CANNNOT argue with a device manufacteur. Unless Templemoore are teaching Advanced Level Physics now

They aim at the Headlight as stated in the LIDAR manual.

As above, you can't argue that one. A windscreen / headlight could diffract a reading causing an error. (Google it)

Sounds as if your countermeasures aren't up to scratch,

May I ask what you use? Short of Jamming or "Veil"-ing, Detectors are no use. Its WIDELY acknoledged that detectors arn't effective against Laser threats

eringobragh

ironclaw wrote: »

Correct. And the Weather mode is dufunct as you could reasonably argue on alot of grounds.

Counter measures? Your talking to the right person...

What countermeasures? Obviously not anything half decent if the Garada was able to get a reading

ironclaw wrote: »

As above, you can't argue that one. A windscreen / headlight could diffract a reading causing an error. (Google it)

If it was top diffract the pulses then the LTIs error trapping would kick in as it hasn't recieved back all the pulses its send out back. I think your mistaking this with the 'Slip effect' which can effect reading off the licence plate as well

ironclaw

eringobragh wrote: »

What countermeasures? Obviously not anything half decent if the Garda was able to get a reading

BTW I've never been done for speeding.

The widely accepted place to obtain a reading is the license plate, and second to that, the headlights.

I'm just giving the manufacteurs facts here. Their words, not mine.

eringobragh

ironclaw wrote: »

As above, you can't argue that one. A windscreen / headlight could diffract a reading causing an error. (Google it)

Actually after reading the tele-traffics version of the Ultralyte Manual they don't seem to endorse the aiming at the Headlights (However its common practice and in the Original UL manual)

TeleTraffic_Ultralyte_100_Manual wrote:

Measuring a Moving Vehicle

To measure the velocity of a vehicle using the UltraLyte use the following procedure:

1. Aim the instrument at the license plate area of the target vehicle and squeeze the trigger.A low-pitched growl begins indicating the instrument is trying to acquire a lock in the target.

2. Keep the trigger pressed and the instrument sighted on the target until you hear a beep.A high-pitched beep means that a speed was captured; a low-pitched beep that a measurement error occurred. The speed calculated for the target displays in the LCD and in the scope.If the target was going away from you when it was measured, the speed displays as a negative
number. If the target was approaching, the speed displays as a positive number.

As long as the trigger is kept pressed your UltraLyte instrument may retry the speed measurement,depending on its configuration, up to 10 times or more. Consequently, it is very important that the aiming point on the target remains constant for the entire measurement time. If you move the instrument off the aiming point it cannot capture a speed reading and displays an error message instead.

ironclaw wrote: »

May I ask what you use? Short of Jamming or "Veil"-ing, Detectors are no use. Its WIDELY acknoledged that detectors arn't effective against Laser threats

Lets say you'd be warm on the jamming end of things Veiling does work but Its ruins the Headlights. I've done my rear lights.

Detectors are in 99% of the cases useless however my V1 has given me advance warning

ironclaw

Could say I'm "Blind" :cool:

eringobragh

ironclaw wrote: »

Could say I'm "Blind" :cool:

I see, that systems worth a ****e in fairness due to >150 metres targeting and rear targeting that the Garda do on a regular basis

ironclaw

Its not that bad based on firmware updates etc undertaken this summer / fall to US models