What finally scuppered John McCain?

Rowley Birkin QC

The man is a "liberal" Republican, patriarchal, war hero who spent years in a POW camp. He should have romped home.

• Was it Palin?
  
• Bush?
  
• The campaign that I suspect the GOP foistered upon him?
  
• The Economy?
  
• Or was is simply the irresistible force that is Barack Obama?
  
• A combination of all of the above?

amacachi

Bush.

And Obama reached the younger voters better.

smellslikeshoes

A combination of all of the above in my opinion as well as his age but Bush being the single biggest contributer by a long way. McCain is a super likable person and if Bush wasn't such a lame duck it would probably be Obama giving the concession speech.

amacachi

Had McCain been allowed to choose Lieberman as his running mate and had told the party to **** off he may have stood a slight chance.

I honestly don't think any Republican would've stood much of a chance this time around.

Biggins

• Bush
• Palin (small advantage in picking her/bigger dis-advantage in picking her)
• The very negative campaign he made
• The messages of everything but the economy (till later when it was too late)
• Not reaching out to the youth
• His lack of using technology to get his message across
• Bad campaign strategy

leincar

Age - Possibly
Economy - Probably
Bush - Definitely
Palin - Absolutely

amacachi

From exit polls it looks like Palin cost him **** all.

CtrlSource

bigkev49 wrote: »

The man is a "liberal" Republican, patriarchal, war hero who spent years in a POW camp. He should have romped home.

• Was it Palin?
  
• Bush?
  
• The campaign that I suspect the GOP foistered upon him?
  
• The Economy?
  
• Or was is simply the irresistible force that is Barack Obama?
  
• A combination of all of the above?

Good summary. All of the above.

But, the real John McCain always had an uphill struggle as he had to run as a Republican - one who would appeal to both his own party (as well as Independents). They would never, en masse, elect the real McCain in "a Democrat year". Many in the GOP didn't trust his Conservative credentials. Palin helped with that portion of the base, but not the Independents.

The old McCain who ran against Bush in 2000 didn't have a broad enough appeal to secure the GOP nomination. So, he had to reinvent himself. Thus alienating many Independents.

The underlying decency and principle of the man was on show during that incredibly magnanimous concession speech we just witnessed. My respect for him is restored, but not fully. He compromised his principles often in the last, desperate months of his bid to get into The White House.

But now i must watch President Elect Obama :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Manic Moran

Palin turned into a liability, but I don't think that was really anyone's fault in the McCain Campaign. She was a good idea with a lot of potential. Unfortunately, once she flubbed the Couric interview, she became a prime target for Borking, and it went downhill from there.

If there was any one single mistake McCain made, it was in selecting his campaign managers. Once they started letting loose with the Ayers and Wright crap and wildly throwing crap about in the hope something would stick, instead of actually saying what they would do if they won, McCain should have stomped on it. He didn't.

We have seen a return to the real McCain recently: In his concession speech. Had the rest of the campaign been conducted with the same class, it would have been much more of a fight.

NTM

nesf

As was said on CNN, by election day it was a perfect storm for the party who weren't in power. A seriously disliked incumbent, an economic recession beginning and the man at the head of the ticket for the incumbent party not being fully trusted by the base.

It was the Democrat's election to lose rather than McCain's to win.

Red Soup

McCain depended on biography and personality way too much. He kind of centred his campaign on it.

Republicans need to rethink how they brand their candidates, methinks

amacachi

Red Soup wrote: »

McCain depended on biography and personality way too much. He kind of centred his campaign on it.

Republicans need to rethink how they brand their candidates, methinks

Had he focussed more on that and less on "the base" he would've done better.
Obama won laregely because of personality. Hell in his victory speech I warmed to him, which is really sayin somethin :P

Hobbes

bigkev49 wrote: »

The man is a "liberal" Republican, patriarchal, war hero who spent years in a POW camp. He should have romped home.

Even that statement is questionable.

But the order of when things went wrong.

- "fundamentals of our economy are strong"
- Suspending campaign to help with the economy
- Sarah Palin being interviewed.
- Continual attacks on Obama rather the focusing on what he could do for the country (just as many people don't read his policies in the same way they don't check up on rumours, etc).

Everything else was just icing (like calling his supporters racist by accident).

Overheal

Saturday Night Live.

Hobbes

amacachi wrote: »

Obama won laregely because of personality.

I think anyone who believes that has never really to investigate Obamas policies and what he was running on. I mean people didn't go door to door and say vote for Obama because he has a nice personality.

amacachi

Yeah, but a helluva lot of people don't look into policies.

nesf

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah, but a helluva lot of people don't look into policies.

Never mind actually understand them or their implications.

Rented Mule

McCain's biggest obstacles to over come were:

1) The USA Economy - the #1 concern amongst all voters in the United States at the moment (coupled with)

2) Gerorge Bush - he could not distance himself enough from him

3) The Republican Party running his campaign with very little say in what was happening around him.

limklad

Combination of all the above.

But it was mainly economy which it seem, they blame Bush and Republicans for that failure.

yaynay

Personally I believe the main reason he didn't win is due to BUSH. McCain wasn't able to build a big enough barrier between himself and W. And the American people didn't want to take their chances with another 4 years - understandably so.

Sherifu

The Economy and Bush. Palin helped towards the end.

is_that_so

All of the above as they say with Bush and the economy, the big ones.
Bush was the big stick, that could be used to beat any Republican any time.

I think Palin was less so and did what she was supposed to do, appeal to the conservative base. She certainly had potential but turned out to have absolutely no substance to appeal to the middle ground.

In the end he just came up against a far more talented politician with a better message that appealed to more people.

lg123

is there something wrong with john mcains elbows? he never seems to bend them from what i can see. very weird wave

Mick Shrimpton

lg123 wrote: »

is there something wrong with john mcains elbows? he never seems to bend them from what i can see. very weird wave

It is freaky innit.

He had both his arms broken when he was a POW iirc.

amacachi

He can't raise his arms above his head because of the abuse he endured as a POW. What a freak:rolleyes:

lg123

thats what scuppered him so, it was the VC's fault he lost.

Handsome Bob

I'd have to say a combination of his age coupled with his choice of VP in Sarah Palin. There was huge hysteria when McCain revealed her but then it all went downhill whether it be due to the words that came out of her mouth or details on her background that emerged.

Dave!

I would think that the choice of Palin was a bad idea. Fair enough McCain aint popular with the Republican base, but who were they gonna vote for -- Obama??? If he hadn't picked Palin, then I suspect the campaign would have had wider appeal.

I'd also say the negativity of the campaign was off-putting.

Other than that, he might have won.

Who decides on these things btw? I don't imagine McCain went and dug out Palin, so who would have recommended her? Do campaign managers make these kind of recommendations? And they would also have recommended the negative tactics employed.

Anyone know who McCain's campaign manager was?

Scoobydoobydoo

From what I hear:

He intended to keep the war going in Iraq

He didn't have much of an economic policy

His age, plus if anything happened to him, Sarah Palin was an unacceptable (and scary) choice to fill in as Commander in Chief!

irish_bob

the tide turned when leahmann brothers went bust and the financial meltdown became the top news story , seeing as bush and the republicans happend to be the party in office , they owned this problem and so mc cain owned it by association ,sarah palin gave the campaign a boost when she was put on the ticket but it wasnt enough to save his campaign from the wall st meltdown and the subsequent backlash

before september , mc cain was slightly in the lead , he was the one republican canditate who could have won what with his appeal among independants

it was a perfect storm for obama , luck plays a part in all great events and storys and so it was with obama

MisterAnarchy

The main reason would be the state of the US economy where the blame has been squarely placed on George Bush and the GOP.
McCain while being an unconventional Republican could not distance himself enough from that blame.
Sarah Palin was a poor choice as VP.

What cannot be discounted though is the 700m Usd that Obama spent on his campaign,over $10 for every vote he received.
That is obscene money.
Did he buy the election ? Who knows .I certainly think there should be a cap on campaign costs.

The media in the states is predominately left wing and I think the truth was the major casualty of this campaign.
The coverage was biased in the extreme.
I'm shocked as to how biased their media is compared to ours.

GuanYin

As someone who fullt intended to vote McCain before the Clinton-Obama race was even settled, I can easily reflect back on why I ended up voting for Obama.

I, like many other, liked and respected the senator McCain of old. Being honest, he was a liberal Republican and yes, even a maverick.

Watching him, one day at a time, morph from this figure to the grotesque GOP conservative lapdog that he became towards the end of the campaign was enough to turn off anyone.

How can you have faith in a president who doesn't even have the strength to stay true to their own values?

I stayed undecided until the debates, but really they only re-enforced my feelings, when I saw him make statements that he didn't seem convinced about, I knew then I could never vote for him.

I attended a party last night and surprised myself by feeling generally emotional when Obama made his way out on stage. There was a carnivale attitude here and while I think that the Southern states may be hurt by this for some time, the american people have spoken.

Macha

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I think the truth was the major casualty of this campaign..

Too right it was a major casualty. Words like "socialism" being bandied about with utter disregard for the true meaning of the word. Fact checker websites pointed out lies in all four candidates debates.

Undecided voters do not like negative campaigns and didn't care about things like Ayers. But that's all McCain had to offer.

randylonghorn

I don't think Palin was the major factor, but she certainly didn't help, and if there's any truth in this article, and presumably there's at least some, it's hardly the way to run a Presidential campaign ...

Tensions between McCain and Palin camps become more apparent ...

Excerpts:

Sarah Palin left the national stage Wednesday, but the controversy over her role on the ticket flared as aides to John McCain disclosed new details about her expensive wardrobe purchases and revealed that a Republican Party lawyer would be dispatched to Alaska to inventory and retrieve the clothes still in her possession.

...

The miscommunication and quarrels between the two camps lasted into Tuesday night, said McCain aides familiar with the situation. Palin arrived at the Arizona Biltmore planning to deliver a speech before McCain's concession speech, they said, but was told by senior McCain aides Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter that it would not be appropriate.

...

Fox News reported Wednesday that Palin's lack of knowledge on some topics also strained relations. Carl Cameron reported that campaign sources told him Palin had resisted coaching before her faltering Katie Couric interviews; did not understand that Africa was a continent rather than a country; and could not name the three nations that are part of the North American Free Trade Agreement -- the United States, Canada and Mexico.

For weeks, the McCain-Palin campaign has dealt with the fallout from the disclosure that the Republican National Committee was billed for $150,000 in wardrobe purchases for the Palin family -- a discovery that was widely ridiculed and undercut Palin's hockey mom appeal.
(Lots more about clothes)

...

Resentments had started to brew earlier. Palin was not comfortable with the team of handlers sent by party headquarters to manage her appearances, and there were frequent conflicts between the staff at headquarters and her traveling staff. Palin felt constrained by the fact that she had little decision-making power, and questioned the directions being given to her by the campaign, an aide said.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Palin denied that there were tensions with the McCain camp. But that is at odds with accounts from aides on both sides. The strain worsened, the aides said, after Palin was recorded talking to a Canadian comedian who pretended to be French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

...

ilkhanid

"The media in the states is predominately left wing" ??
Not in the sense that we in Europe understand the phrase. It only appears to be so, in comparison to the views of Republicans which are far more to the right than most conservative parties in this part of the world.

Black Swan

The Palin Economy

dave2pvd

ilkhanid wrote: »

"The media in the states is predominately left wing" ??
Not in the sense that we in Europe understand the phrase. It only appears to be so, in comparison to the views of Republicans which are far more to the right than most conservative parties in this part of the world.

Europe is not the frame of reference.

jordano

Bush, definately.
And Oprah! The second I saw that she was backing Obama, I knew he would win!

Dublin's Finest

Definitely the economic sh*tstorm, which left him floundering.

In terms of contributing factors, I think Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama was significant in the latter stages. Powell is respected across party lines and particularly by McCain. it was a personal blow, as well as a political one.

It didn't help that the increasingly toxic Cheney publicly backed McCain either, at a time when he was struggling to distance himself from the Bush Administration's policies.

dave2pvd

Dublin's Finest wrote: »

Definitely the economic sh*tstorm, which left him floundering.

In terms of contributing factors, I think Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama was significant in the latter stages. Powell is respected across party lines and particularly by McCain. it was a personal blow, as well as a political one.

I've heard this from other folks 'back home'.

You would think, logically, that the Powell endorsement would be a big factor. 'Experts' at the time predicted as much. There were various reasons: increased military vote, quashes the 'inexperience' allegation, makes for a high-profile defection from the McCain/Repub stable,...etc.

Thing is, there was little or no bounce in the polls (despite polls in advance of Powell's endorsement saying there would be). I suspect that Powell's image/credibility overseas is a few ticks higher than it is in the US.

I also think that the endorsement mostly re-affirmed Obama voters' already drawn conclusions. A few undecideds were probably swayed. Maybe. Think about it though, if you were undecided at that point in the race, you were probably pretty uninformed and clueless to begin with. Would you even know much about Colin Powell? (Note: not all undecideds fit this category - allow me to generalize a bit here).

Campaign contributions soared right around that point in time. Probably erroneous to attribute that solely to the Powell attaboy.

At the back of my mind, I fear a lot of people here expected the black guy to endorse the black guy. Alas.

Powell's backing of Obama will go down in the history books as significant. Significant historically. It gave the media plenty to circus about - both in the US and overseas.

Bob Z

also i think the way McCain portrayed himself as a maverick didnt really ring true

dave2pvd

Bob Z wrote: »

also i think the way McCain portrayed himself as a maverick didnt really ring true

That part was rather sad.

He actually has been quite independent all along. Until he turned hard right last November.

JohnMc1

The economy did him him. The Democrats did a good job of putting the blame on the Republicans [Even though they deserve a great deal of the blame too] and the fact that McCain seemed to be phoning in his campaigns [Ie. He looked like he didn't want to be there] Plus all the local TV networks [The ones you don't need cable to watch] with the exception of Fox were all cheerleading for Obama from day 1.

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

Ludo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The economy did him him. The Democrats did a good job of putting the blame on the Republicans [Even though they deserve a great deal of the blame too] and the fact that McCain seemed to be phoning in his campaigns [Ie. He looked like he didn't want to be there] Plus all the local TV networks [The ones you don't need cable to watch] with the exception of Fox were all cheerleading for Obama from day 1.

Agree with the economy part but as for the media part...I'll leave it to Shepard Smith of Fox to retort to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKzS5Zl6mY

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

Swim...LOL. God help the GOP if this is what is classed as a possible future candidate.

JohnMc1

Ludo wrote: »

Agree with the economy part but as for the media part...I'll leave it to Shepard Smith of Fox to retort to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKzS5Zl6mY

That has been proven true. CBS,CNN,NBC,etc ran alot more positive stuff about Obama than they did McCain. And they ran alot more negative stuff about McCain than they did about Obama. A bias clearly existed.

Swim...LOL. God help the GOP if this is what is classed as a possible future candidate.

I say God help Ireland every morning if scumbags like Brian Cowen and Mary Harney are considered the best of Ireland's political structure.

But seriously do really believe Gov. Palin is worse than Joe Biden the guy with permanent foot in mouth syndrome? I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

topper75

Palin.

dave2pvd

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

You mean a blessing for the democrats?

Right after folks found out a bit about her (Palin interview), the McCain/Plain ticket lost support. And I agree, she did come out with obscene and ridiculous stuff.

I also agree that she energized crowds. Her crowds. Which were smaller than Obama's crowds.

JohnMc1

topper75 wrote: »

Palin.

its posts where I can see why Ireland is in the state its in. No sense whatsoever. Don't worry I'm sure Cowen and co. will fix things once you re-elect them again. After 15 years they're bound to get things right someday.

Ludo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

That has been proven true. CBS,CNN,NBC,etc ran alot more positive stuff about Obama than they did McCain. And they ran alot more negative stuff about McCain than they did about Obama. A bias clearly existed.

Well McCains campaign was negative and Obamas positive...that was reflected in the press maybe.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I say God help Ireland every morning if scumbags like Brian Cowen and Mary Harney are considered the best of Ireland's political structure.

Couldn't agree more.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

But seriously do really believe Gov. Palin is worse than Joe Biden the guy with permanent foot in mouth syndrome? I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

Biden knows his stuff. I wouldn't particularly want him as president either but to he is in a different league to Palin. You are entitled to your opinion though but you appear to be in a very small minority. She will never win a presidential election because she has a very limited appeal to a niche corner of the electorate.

Lemming

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

Unbiased info from where? Fox? ...

JohnMc1

Ludo wrote: »

Well McCains campaign was negative and Obamas positive...that was reflected in the press maybe.

I agree he should of focused on how he was going to fix the economy rather than harping on Wright,Ayers,etc. It did have the taint of desperation. He should of focused on how he would have fixed the economy and other important issues.

Couldn't agree more.

Thanks.

Biden knows his stuff. I wouldn't particularly want him as president either but to he is in a different league to Palin. You are entitled to your opinion though but you appear to be in a very small minority. She will never win a presidential election because she has a very limited appeal to a niche corner of the electorate.

You can say that about Obama too. Before this year the idea of a guy only serving in the Senate for 2 out of 4 years being elected President was a ridiculous idea.