3 Contract

godtabh

I've been trying to figure this out.

I'm on 3 bill pay but never signed a contact.

3 say I have a contract as I accepted their terms and conditions when I bought the phone.

Their terms and conditions states a Minimum Term commitment as referred to in 3's price guide.

The price guide doesn't state what the minimum term is.

My question is does a contract exist if I didn't sign one like all other service providers like this do?

T&C
Price Guide

Cabaal

Yes a contract exists, you agreed to there T&C's when you used the service

The min term is layed out as part of your price plan as outlined in the T&C's, all of Three bill pay plans have a contract period

krudler

How did you get a billpay phone without signing a contract?

godtabh

Cabaal wrote: »

Yes a contract exists, you agreed to there T&C's when you used the service

The min term is layed out as part of your price plan as outlined in the T&C's, all of Three bill pay plans have a contract period

I cant find the length of the contract. I also didnt think that buying the phone warrants acceptance of the contract. I thought it just meant I bought a phone.

I'm just interested in this as its not what I'm used to

krudler wrote: »

How did you get a billpay phone without signing a contract?

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Any service I've gotten involves you signing a contract.

AARRRGH

I'm also a 3 customer and didn't sign a contract. All I did was buy a phone and start using their service - I didn't have to sign anything and there was no mention of any sort of contract or anything like that.

I would also be interested to know what's going on.

Cabaal

kearnsr wrote: »

I cant find the length of the contract. I also didnt think that buying the phone warrants acceptance of the contract. I thought it just meant I bought a phone.

I'm just interested in this as its not what I'm used to

Thats what I'm trying to figure out. Any service I've gotten involves you signing a contract.

So you bought a phone are you saying you haven't used it at all, ever on the Three network?

You know you have a 14 day period you can cancel during regardless of contract....this is clearly outlined in the T&C's.

If you can find me an Irish mobile provider who allows you to signup to a residential bill pay mobile phone without any contract I'll stand here in shock...because as far as I'm aware there is no such thing!

godtabh

Cabaal wrote: »

If you can find me an Irish mobile provider who allows you to signup to a residential bill pay mobile phone without any contract I'll stand here in shock...because as far as I'm aware there is no such thing!

You show me one that doesnt make you sign a contract. They all do except 3. 3 seem to impy you have a contract but as far as I'm aware unless you sign a contract you havent entered one

AARRRGH

kearnsr wrote: »

You show me one that doesnt make you sign a contract. They all do except 3. 3 seem to impy you have a contract but as far as I'm aware unless you sign a contract you havent entered one

Considering how incompetent 3 are, I wouldn't be surprised if they misunderstood what a contract is

chrislad

I've already queried this with the NCA and Citizens Information. By USING the phone, you agree to the terms. If you use a phone without knowing the terms, that's your own fault. You can cancel within 14 days for any reason, but after that, you are tied to the 12 months.

krudler

But surely you signed SOMETHING to get the phone? or did you buy it online?

Cabaal

chrislad wrote: »

I've already queried this with the NCA and Citizens Information. By USING the phone, you agree to the terms. If you use a phone without knowing the terms, that's your own fault. You can cancel within 14 days for any reason, but after that, you are tied to the 12 months.

makes sense,

Bob the Builder

Actually the contract begins when you leave the shop with the sim card and/or phone in your hand.

godtabh

chrislad wrote: »

I've already queried this with the NCA and Citizens Information. By USING the phone, you agree to the terms. If you use a phone without knowing the terms, that's your own fault. You can cancel within 14 days for any reason, but after that, you are tied to the 12 months.

Pay as you go dont have a contract and can cancel when they want. The difference between pay and go and bill pay is they you sign up to 12 months (or 18 months)

krudler wrote: »

But surely you signed SOMETHING to get the phone? or did you buy it online?

bought it in a shop. Wasnt asked to sign anything. Paid my cash and off I went

Sponge Bob

So you gave them your bank account details for a prepay did you ??

If so thats their evidence . If not you are in luck

godtabh

Sponge Bob wrote: »

So you gave them your bank account details for a prepay did you ??

If so thats their evidence . If not you are in luck

where did I say i was on pre pay? Even if they have my bank details it doesnt mean my I have a contract.

Blueface have my bank details for a prepay. i've no contract there

RodVelvet

Nearest thing to a bill phone without being tied to a 12 month contract would be the O2 Clear Sim. It doesn't entitle you to a handset unlike the 12 or 18 month plans but allows you to exit the contract by giving 30 days notice. So no termination charges are incurred.

3 don't require you to actually sign a contract instore as far as i'm aware but if you handover ID and address proofs along with dd details you surely would have an inkling that it's for more than a pay as you go phone.

godtabh

RodVelvet wrote: »

Nearest thing to a bill phone without being tied to a 12 month contract would be the O2 Clear Sim. It doesn't entitle you to a handset unlike the 12 or 18 month plans but allows you to exit the contract by giving 30 days notice. So no termination charges are incurred.

3 don't require you to actually sign a contract instore as far as i'm aware but if you handover ID and address proofs along with dd details you surely would have an inkling that it's for more than a pay as you go phone.

I've never suggested its a pre pay phone. I've just said no contract exisits. If If I use the service I pay the charges. If I want to stop using the services what is there to stop me? I have no contract that I signed that states I will use the service for 12 months

Cabaal

kearnsr wrote: »

I've never suggested its a pre pay phone. I've just said no contract exisits. If If I use the service I pay the charges. If I want to stop using the services what is there to stop me? I have no contract that I signed that states I will use the service for 12 months

if you feel so strongly about this and believe your right then just cancel your direct debit and hope Three to give your account to the debt collectors

godtabh

Cabaal wrote: »

if you feel so strongly about this and believe your right then just cancel your direct debit and hope Three to give your account to the debt collectors

i dont want to cancel the direct debit i just want to figure out what the story is

AARRRGH

krudler wrote: »

But surely you signed SOMETHING to get the phone? or did you buy it online?

I signed nothing. I just paid for the phone and left.

I didn't see, receive or sign any contract.

Note I bought in the Carphone Warehouse.

I'm not planning on moving from 3, but surely if I stopped paying and they took me to court, this would mean they have no signed contract from me, i.e. I win?

chrislad

You can argue it any way you want. Either way, 14 days would be enough time to know that you had a bill pay phone, rather than a prepay one as the first time you make a call with 3, unless it's changed, you are routed to their customer care.

The difference between PayG and Bill isn't just that you sign up for a period. You also get a much cheaper phone, and much better value on your calls (for the most part)

godtabh

chrislad wrote: »

You can argue it any way you want. Either way, 14 days would be enough time to know that you had a bill pay phone, rather than a prepay one as the first time you make a call with 3, unless it's changed, you are routed to their customer care.

no one here is disputing its a bill phone. You get a bill you pay it. People are queering if there is a contact that if you stop using the service they cant say you have a 12 month contract.

AARRRGH

chrislad wrote: »

You can argue it any way you want. Either way, 14 days would be enough time to know that you had a bill pay phone, rather than a prepay one as the first time you make a call with 3, unless it's changed, you are routed to their customer care.

I know I have a bill phone, but having a bill phone should not automatically mean you have a contract. You should only have a contract when you sign a contract; I did not sign a contract.

godtabh

AARRRGH wrote: »

I know I have a bill phone, but having a bill phone should not automatically mean you have a contract. You should only have a contract when you sign a contract; I did not sign a contract.

People dont seem to be able to grasp this

jor el

kearnsr wrote: »

no one here is disputing its a bill phone. You get a bill you pay it. People are queering if there is a contact that if you stop using the service they cant say you have a 12 month contract.

AARRRGH wrote: »

I know I have a bill phone, but having a bill phone should not automatically mean you have a contract. You should only have a contract when you sign a contract; I did not sign a contract.

This is something I've been wondering about for quite a while. I "signed" up to BT phone and broadband about 3 years ago, without actually signing anything, not even a direct debit mandate. I was never told that there was a contract, nor was I given, or told where to find, terms and conditions. I asked, in email, twice for my contract details and terms and conditions, both times I was told I would be forwarded them, both times, I was not.

If you don't actually sign anything, and they never show you, or tell you where to find, terms and conditions, and they can't prove that they've done any of this, does a contract legally exist?

Someone with a good solicitor can probably test this in a court, and until that happens, we won't actually know. I think that service providers (broadband, phone, TV, mobile, etc) could find themselves at the wrong end of a court decision though, since they seem to be completely ignoring contract law requirements most of the time, and yet insisting that the customer "signed" up, without ever actually signing anything.

Even though a verbal contract is legally binding, it would be difficult to prove that one exists. Any company you speek to over the phone will tell you "This call may be recorded" etc, but how many of them actually record the calls? Even then, how long do they keep the recording for? I know not all the calls are recorded, so again it would make an interesting court case.

Now, anyone willing to take it that far? I bet you a tenner you'll win :pac:

chrislad

Very first line in 3's terms and conditions.

http://www.three.ie/company/pmterms-conditions.htm

Go back to where you got it and ask them how long it's for

AARRRGH

chrislad wrote: »

Very first line in 3's terms and conditions.

http://www.three.ie/company/pmterms-conditions.htm

Go back to where you got it and ask them how long it's for

But if I didn't see a contract and didn't sign a contract, am I under any sort of contractual obligation? I would imagine the answer is no.

penexpers

kearnsr wrote: »

I've been trying to figure this out.

I'm on 3 bill pay but never signed a contact.

3 say I have a contract as I accepted their terms and conditions when I bought the phone.

Their terms and conditions states a Minimum Term commitment as referred to in 3's price guide.

The price guide doesn't state what the minimum term is.

My question is does a contract exist if I didn't sign one like all other service providers like this do?

T&C
Price Guide

From the documents you linked

All Pay Monthly price plans are subject to a minimum term of 12 months.

Page three of the price guide.

penexpers

AARRRGH wrote: »

I signed nothing. I just paid for the phone and left.

I didn't see, receive or sign any contract.

Note I bought in the Carphone Warehouse.

I'm not planning on moving from 3, but surely if I stopped paying and they took me to court, this would mean they have no signed contract from me, i.e. I win?

I don't think you have to sign anything for a contract to be enforceable. After all, you don't sign a contract every time you walk into a shop and buy a pint of milk.

Sangre

jor el wrote: »

Even though a verbal contract is legally binding, it would be difficult to prove that one exists.

If you use the service and regularly pay for it you will likely be held that you have accepted its conditions by your actions.

A point to note, a company can't justify anything with 'its in the T&C', they have to comply with Irish and EU consumer fairness laws, which I'd guess that many large companies don't. Its just no one has money to take them on.

gerrycollins

I was with 3 and I wasnt happy with some of their charges 2/3 years ago so i just cancelled the dd and walked away.there was about 5 months left in the contract but at the start they asked for a secuirity deposit(apparently i was randomly selected) which I was told would be debited against my account after 3 months.

Later I found out the the phone retailler was wrong and you have to apply after 6 months to get your money back.

Anywho I got call after call after call and my argument was that I would pay the remaining contract price if they balanced my deposit against it.

Havent heard from them since, I told them to take me to court, I'm still waiting

foggy_lad

penexpers wrote: »

I don't think you have to sign anything for a contract to be enforceable. After all, you don't sign a contract every time you walk into a shop and buy a pint of milk.

when you buy a pint of milk in a shop you are not expected to buy one every month for 12 months.

i learned in school years ago that a contract requires a signiture or the witnessed mark of the purchaser to be valid regardless of other conditions and did not thinkn this had changed?

chrislad

*goes to explain to the brick wall, as it would grasp things better*

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

i learned in school years ago that a contract requires a signiture or the witnessed mark of the purchaser to be valid regardless of other conditions and did not thinkn this had changed?

See that changed when modern life came along and we all wanted to be able to buy on the net without having to wait for Mr Amazon to send us a contract etc and it was decided that starting to use a service would constitute accepting the terms - on the basis that you had to actively purchase/obtain the item requied to access the service


(or summat like that - I may be totally wrong but then this is boards..)

Sponge Bob

Getouts are bank account info utilisation .....and not using TTP verification .

Signatures are sooo like very 1970's kearnsr

Those T&Cs are illegal too lads , they cannot stand over them in their entirety

Sangre

parsi wrote: »

See that changed when modern life came along and we all wanted to be able to buy on the net without having to wait for Mr Amazon to send us a contract etc and it was decided that starting to use a service would constitute accepting the terms - on the basis that you had to actively purchase/obtain the item requied to access the service


(or summat like that - I may be totally wrong but then this is boards..)

We've long had verbal contracts and contracts by course of dealings, a necessity in commercial life. You've never had to have a contract for it be be a contract. All you require is consideration, offer, acceptance and intention to create legal relations.