Restaurant Service Charges?

meglome

Hi all.

I was reading recently that restaurants cannot now bill you for service for less than six people. I only quickly skimmed over it so when I was in a restaurant the other day and they put service on the bill I wasn't sure to argue the point of not. What is the situation now?

Thanks.

meglome

Anyone?

AARRRGH

I don't know. But I do know they annoy me!

For example, "Gruel" on Dame Street don't mention they charge a service charge, and they don't give you a receipt. It was only after eating there a lot for about 6 months that I noticed I was leaving a tip and they were adding a sneaky service charge.

Obviously I haven't been back since.

the_syco

meglome wrote: »

I was reading recently that restaurants cannot now bill you for service for less than six people.

Where did you read it?

wyndham

meglome wrote: »

Hi all.

I was reading recently that restaurants cannot now bill you for service for less than six people.

Doesn't sound right to me. They can charge what they see fit and it would not be possible to legislate for something like this. Unless it's a stipulation/recommendation from the Restaurants Association of Ireland, but I doubt it. And even then, they would have to be members.

meglome

Actually I think it was in Yamamori maybe, they were handing out cards to say that they couldn't charge service any more, on less than six people, because of new EU laws. Wish I had been paying more attention.

Trampas

I thought places usually place a service charge for 6 and more people.

If I see a service charge then there goes the tip out the window

inforfun

Always annoyed the crap out of me.
For f*ck sake, you open a restaurant, i come in to eat and spend money and on top of that i have to pay service charge?
What service? Usage of a table and chair? The service that my food is nt dumped raw on a plate but actually is cooked? Tat they open my bottle of wine in stead of having to do it myself?

It is a restaurant, you provide a service (cooking food) and you get paid for it. No need to charge me 2x for that.

Jet Black

meglome wrote: »

Actually I think it was in Yamamori maybe, they were handing out cards to say that they couldn't charge service any more, on less than six people, because of new EU laws. Wish I had been paying more attention.

Last time I went here with 3 adults and 2 kids they charged us a service charge. The kids where not eating. They where fed before coming here. Pissed me off. That was a couple of months ago and have not gone back since.

peanuthead

As I used to be a waitress I happen to think that they work very hard and deserve a tip.

But I also agree that this service charge business is a load of crap. If someone wanted t leave me a tip I would happily accept, but at the end of the day I was on a wage, and never expected anything. Im particular I would feel awful for families who would come up to dublin to watch a gaa match or something. The whole family would come up, pay for petrol, rooms, tickets for the match... and then be slapped with a bill including a service charge that they probably didnt work into their budget!!

I also think it defeats its own purpose, because alot of people say, "I had to pay a service charge for what? The service was shite!" Of course it was! When the waitress found out she was getting a table of six, she knew she didnt have to bother with you because the tip was a given anyway! Let me guess, she also happened to recommend the most expensive main course on the menu??

Well even as a waitress Ive never been a fan of it, if I had tables of 6 where 4 of them were children I never added a service, and if anyone ever objected to it I removed it from the bill immediately.

Dont feel like you can't complain about these sort of things. You can. And you should.

eth0_

This is going to descend into a 'why should waiters get a tip' thread, but ffs, if you don't earn enough as a waiter/waitress, get a better job! It's not the customers fault your boss is paying you minimum wage (or less!) so he can have more profits for himself.

I only ever tip if the waiting staff are friendly and efficient. I never feel obliged to tip. The whole point of a tip is to reward good service, so I think it is quite disgusting that some restaurants force a tip/service charge on customers.

calex71

love to hear if people have refused to pay the service charge on the grounds of bad service etc?

pow wow

We disagreed with it during a recent visit to a newly opened place but they said it was automatically added through the till and couldn't be taken off so we would need to take it up with Head Office. We all know service is bound to be poor when somewhere has literally just opened (takes time for staff to build up a routine and get used to the table plans etc.) so I thought it was a bit cheeky to then automatically include a service fee when it was obvious to everyone who worked and ate there that it was nowhere near full service.

We left a tipe anyway because our waitress was so nice and it wasn't her fault everything took forever, but I did whizz off an email to Head Office about it. I doubt I'll hear much back though!

olaola

calex71 wrote: »

love to hear if people have refused to pay the service charge on the grounds of bad service etc?

Have done this alright. AFAIK Service charge is only a suggested tip. You don't HAVE to pay it?

BaconZombie

It is illegal in Ireland to not issue a receipt when a purchase is made.

AARRRGH wrote: »

I don't know. But I do know they annoy me!

For example, "Gruel" on Dame Street don't mention they charge a service charge, and they don't give you a receipt. It was only after eating there a lot for about 6 months that I noticed I was leaving a tip and they were adding a sneaky service charge.

Obviously I haven't been back since.

And yes Service charge and tipping is only a suggestion that you DO NOT have to pay.
If you are out somewhere and your not happy with the service,quality,anything don't pay the fecking service charge and/or tip ffs.

olaola wrote: »

Have done this alright. AFAIK Service charge is only a suggested tip. You don't HAVE to pay it?

ntlbell

Yup

I was always under the impression service charge was optional.

I've often refused to pay it if the service/food was below standard

antoinolachtnai

It's not any less optional than any other part of the bill.

Pythia

BOFH_139 wrote: »

It is illegal in Ireland to not issue a receipt when a purchase is made.

Not true according to this post where someone emailed the National Consumer Agency.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56777487&postcount=11

gerrycollins

A Restaurants is allowed to charge a service charge so long as it advertises it on its menu. Check under the wine list right down there in the bottom corner.

For me i refuse to leave any tip regardless of service. every business charges for their product or service based on operating costs and staff wages are part of this.

All premises have there menu on display outside so check it out for a service charge and if your not happy then dont eat there.

kingtut

I try and avoid restuarants that put on a service charge because I think it is a disgrace. So what if there are more than 6 people!!! It is a joke. If I am in a restaurant that puts on a service charge then they get no tip even if the service was outstanding.

To me there are two things worth tipping.
1) Fast efficient service, order taken promptly and correctly, restaurant clean and tidy etc.... i.e. good waiters / waitresses

2) Nice food that comes out at the right temperature and is of a high quality and does not take too long to reach the table after ordering...i.e. the kitchen staff

Only if there is no service charge and 1 and 2 are present will I tip.
Nowadays when I tip I ask that all the tip is sent to the kitchen. I spent 7 years in a kitchen and during that time the waiters/waitresses took all the tips. Most people would say but they get paid less, well firstly only some of them got paid less than me and secondly basing how much tips people get by how much they earn is not fair!!! Gees I missed out on sooooo many tips!! The floor staff and the kitchen staff have the same amount of work to do so it should be 50/50....ok rant over...:mad:

meglome

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/hot_topics/tip_of_the_week/tips_archive/eating_out.html

Displayed prices

Under the law, food outlets such as restaurants, cafés and pubs must give certain price information to consumers before they order. The premises must display its prices outside or inside the entrance, as well as on its menus or on a clear display in the room such as a blackboard.

The displayed prices must be inclusive of taxes and charges. The price list must also show if there is:

* A minimum charge
* A service charge
* Any other charge such as a cover charge

These regulations about price displays are called the Retail Price (Food in Catering Establishments) Display Order, 1984. They are enforced by the National Consumer Agency, and if the prices aren't being properly displayed you can bring this to their attention.
Service charges and tips

If you’re in a large group, look out for service charges. Many restaurants will apply these for groups such as a party of 10 people or more. Service charges can vary from 5% to 15%. The service charge must be displayed on the price list.

* You can leave a tip for the waiting staff to reward good service. Tipping is discretionary and is not a legal requirement. Tips are usually about 10% to 12% of the bill
* There is no need to leave a tip if there is a service charge included in your bill

missbaker

I work in a restaurant and ther is a 10% service charge included on all bills. I do not receive a cent of this so camlled service charge!! People often ask if we get it and when they hear we dont they will usually leave a tip. Others sometimes refuse to pay it. The more that complain about it the better. will go tho the boss and tell him what people are saying! Any more and more people are saying it these days too!! People are watching their Euros more

Tippex

the other one that gets me is when you pay by credit card and they include an area on the credit card docket for you to include a tip.

I never ever include a tip as I am 99% certain that the server will not see this money. I will usually give the server cash if I think the service was good.

Big Wave

gerrycollins wrote: »

For me i refuse to leave any tip regardless of service.

I'd say all the ladies love going out for dinner with Mr. Short-arms Deep-pockets.

Shelflife

Id say they do, because he can afford to bring them out more often when he doesnt pay twice for a service thats already included in the price.

Big Wave

Shelflife wrote: »

Id say they do, because he can afford to bring them out more often when he doesnt pay twice for a service thats already included in the price.

He never said that he doesn't tip if he's already paid a service change: he says he NEVER tips!

So your point is irrelevant, because he's not talking about paying a double service charge - he's talking about never, ever, tipping in any situation. So if he gets good service, and doesn't get charged a service charge, he still wont tip because he's Stingy McScrooge.

ch750536

We live in a country with 'if not the best then very close to' work condiditions and minimum wage.

Tips not needed in my opinion.

If you get bad food and bad service, dont pay your bill either.

I used to work filling buckets with powdered food colouring, controlled environment, 40c, in full chem suits for 8hrs a day.

Got no tips!

Welease

Big Wave wrote: »

He never said that he doesn't tip if he's already paid a service change: he says he NEVER tips!

So your point is irrelevant, because he's not talking about paying a double service charge - he's talking about never, ever, tipping in any situation. So if he gets good service, and doesn't get charged a service charge, he still wont tip because he's Stingy McScrooge.

And whats wrong with that?

Do you tip barmen? shop staff? mechanics? etc etc etc.. why is it expected that he should give someone who delivers him food a special cash based thank you?

Big Wave

And whats wrong with that?

Refusing to tip, even for good service, makes you a tight arse IMO.

I tip in restaurants upon good service, fast-food delivery people who are quick, and the odd taxi driver if they're pleasant. And I tip bar staff if they're quick, pleasant, and/or if they deliver the drink to my table. It all depends - I tip people in the service industry if they provide a great service. It shows you appreciate the extra effort. I make a point of not tipping if I receive bad service, or less than average service.

People who have a blanket 'I never tip' policy are just miserable human beings, IMO.

why is it expected that he should give someone who delivers him food a special cash based thank you?

Because they're not just "delivering food to you" - they're serving you, they're fulfilling your specific requests, they will make recommendations if asked about a dish, they can be pleasant & converse with you & your group if appropriate, they will ask if everything is to your satisfaction, etc, etc, etc - don't dismiss the job as just "bringing food to your table".

Shelflife

So when you go into your local shop and buy your groceries and they give a good service, do you tip them as well?

Big Wave

Shelflife wrote: »

So when you go into your local shop and buy your groceries and they give a good service, do you tip them as well?

You mean when they just scan my items & I pay? Eh, no. And you knew that. It's completely different - it's not a personable experience.

lol - I can't believe all the jewbags are actually getting on my case because I tip for good service! :rolleyes:

ch750536

Big Wave wrote: »

You mean when they just scan my items & I pay? Eh, no. And you knew that. It's completely different - it's not a personable experience.

lol - I can't believe all the jewbags are actually getting on my case because I tip for good service! :rolleyes:

Read the thread again bud, you were getting on someone elses case for not giving tips.

do you give the girl you are out with a nudge.

'Eh, see the size of my tips, they're MAssssive'.

Big Wave

ch750536 wrote: »

Read the thread again bud, you were getting on do you give the girl you are out with a nudge.

'Eh, see the size of my tips, they're MAssssive'.

No, I don't do that - I just leave a tip discreetly. It's not about ego, it's about tipping for good service; a concept most of you seem to find alien for some reason.

Welease

Big Wave wrote: »

No, I don't do that - I just leave a tip discreetly. It's not about ego, it's about tipping for good service; a concept most of you seem to find alien for some reason.

I think most people understand the concept of tipping good service, and actually do that..

I was interested in how someone like yourself who liberally throws insults around to others who have different tipping patterns, reconciles the fact that you only tip for service based on food, and not other personable service given in other areas.

Shelflife

So lets rephrase that, you go in to your local offie and the lovely assistant helps and advises you on a wine. do you tip??

noone is having a go at you because you tip, you can tip as much as you like afaic. you had a dig at someone because they dont tip, what makes your actions correct and his wrong?

i cant see whats more personal than someone taking a food order and the sales assistant giving you a good service in your local shop or chats to you while making a sandwich.

Big Wave

Welease wrote: »

the fact that you only tip for service based on food, and not other personable service given in other areas.

I already said that I tip taxi drivers if they're pleasant, so get your facts straight before you try to pigeon hole me.

Shelflife wrote: »

So lets rephrase that, you go in to your local offie and the lovely assistant helps and advises you on a wine. do you tip??

Yes, I would if I received very specific advise, and it would depend on the price of the wine too. A €40 bottle, I'd tip around €3. But again it all depends on the situation.

i cant see whats more personal than someone taking a food order and the sales assistant giving you a good service in your local shop or chats to you while making a sandwich.

Well this point is completely irrelevant now, because you just went ahead and assumed I wouldn't tip in those situations. Nice job....

Welease

Big Wave wrote: »

I already said that I tip taxi drivers if they're pleasant, so get your facts straight before you try to pigeon hole me.

Oh don't worry, you were already pigeon holed.. comments like "jewbag" tend to get you that...

Big Wave

Welease wrote: »

Oh don't worry, you were already pigeon holed.. comments like "jewbag" tend to get you that...

Ah yes, just ignore my post and pick out one tiny part of it - the part that isn't even on topic. What about the bit where you got your facts wrong because you didn't bother reading my post properly? Basing your opinions on half-read facts, eh?

Welease

Big Wave wrote: »

Ah yes, just ignore my post and pick out one tiny part of it - the part that isn't even on topic. What about the bit where you got your facts wrong because you didn't bother reading my post properly? Basing your opinions on half-read facts, eh?

My posts were seeking clarification on where you would tip. mechanics/shops etc... So I hardly "ignored" your post. The general point which you fail to grasp is I don't believe you tip for every single piece of good service you recieve (banks, libraries, mechanics, shops, lawyers etc etc etc), and therefore why you only tip for certain services and feel justified in being offensive to others who have a different tipping model.

Your posts seem to revolve around unleashing your insults and anger on a message board.. Sore point about not tipping?
Most people seem to be able to discuss the differences without throwing insults and anti-semetic remarks around, you don't so therefore yes you will get pidgeon holed.. If you have a problem with that, then I suggest you change your offensive posturing.

mikemac

Tippex wrote: »

the other one that gets me is when you pay by credit card and they include an area on the credit card docket for you to include a tip.

I never ever include a tip as I am 99% certain that the server will not see this money. I will usually give the server cash if I think the service was good.

Let me cast aside your doubt and tell you it's 100% certain the server won't get it.
That money goes into overheads and to run the place, that includes wages too.

I don't get this service charge for 6 (insert group amount) of people.
You set up one table, two at most.
Everyone orders at the same time, pays at the same time and it should be easier, no?

It definitely should be easier to serve one table of 10 people instead of five tables of 2 people.
Service charge for giving a restaurant lots of extra business? Should be a discount tbh



Oh and I don't think anyone has mentioned tipping the postman. In rural areas you'll have the same guy all year so you do build up some sort of relationship. Plus there are no house numbers and you need to know the names of everyone including children.
It's the done thing to give 20 euro every Christmas, I'd say it adds up to nice tax free bonus.
Wouldn't work in towns where people rotate and do different areas

Welease

mikemac wrote: »

I don't get this service charge for 6 (insert group amount) of people.
You set up one table, two at most.
Everyone orders at the same time, pays at the same time and it should be easier, no?

It definitely should be easier to serve one table of 10 people instead of five tables of 2 people.
Service charge for giving a restaurant lots of extra business? Should be a discount tbh

Well I imagine it's because they have to co-ordinate the 10 meals etc. at the same time... but yes, i agree (even though I pay it) it's a joke of a charge. Be interesting to see if policies change when people are being more attentive to what they spend in the future.

Ste.phen

As my boss once remarked, restaurants are the only place where they INCREASE the prices when you buy in bulk, instead of lowering them....