Irish DTT discussion (posts removed from Sat forum thread)

bk

DMC wrote: »

I would. There would be an almighty hoo-haa from Boxer.

So why should RTE care, tough luck on Boxer. RTE bid for a license, lost and now are looking to compete in a different way. Personally I already think that Boxer are in serious trouble with Freesat.

This really is in RTE's interest, the very serious worry that RTE have is that sat4free/freesat will take off big here in Ireland (very likely) and that people won't bother to get RTE or flick over to it (separate remote, epg, etc.) when they have so many UK channels.

With Freesat RTE really need to either a) go FTA and join freesat or b) bring out highly integrated Freesat/DTT boxes.

If RTE don't do this, they may start to lose serious audience ratings.

luckat wrote:

My local shop does three brands: Sony, Panasonic and JVC. Normally I'd always buy Panasonic, but the guy there said the JVC actually had a better picture than either Sony or Panasonic in his opinion. Little difference in the price.

The shop guy was either lying through his teeth, ignorant or on commission from JVC. While all companies make many different ranges with different quality, on the whole Panasonic make the second best plasmas (after the beautiful Pioneer plasmas of course) and Sony make the best LCD's.

JVC are a cheap brand and has little respect.

Of course down at 32" Panasonic don't do Plasma, if you can afford it I'd recommend looking at a Sony W4000 or even better W4500, these are hands down the best LCD's on the market.

DMC

bk wrote: »

So why should RTE care, tough luck on Boxer. RTE bid for a license, lost and now are looking to compete in a different way. Personally I already think that Boxer are in serious trouble with Freesat.

But will they be allowed to compete in a different way?

In effect, what was handed out by the BCI was RTÉ get a mux to broadcast on, and Boxer get a contract to provide a service across a few muxes with Boxer's hardware in each home. I've not heard of RTÉ bringing out their own hardware. Knowing Denis O'Brien and litigation, he won't allow that to happen.

Having two competing set top boxes on the market for DTT, one free, one pay? I think no. Not here, and not now in the current economic climate.

But I agree that Boxer may have insurmountable issues.

The Cush

DMC wrote: »

But will they be allowed to compete in a different way?

In effect, what was handed out by the BCI was RTÉ get a mux to broadcast on, and Boxer get a contract to provide a service across a few muxes with Boxer's hardware in each home. I've not heard of RTÉ bringing out their own hardware. Knowing Denis O'Brien and litigation, he won't allow that to happen.

Having two competing set top boxes on the market for DTT, one free, one pay? I think no. Not here, and not now in the current economic climate.

The BCI did not award a mux to RTÉ. RTÉ received its mux under Section 3.(2)(a) of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2007.
RTÉ will not be providing DTT hardware, this will be done by AV manufacturers selling Irish-DTT compliant iDTVs and set-top boxes thru retail outlets - Boxer hardware will not be required as the RTÉ mux channels will be broadcast FTA.
Boxer will of course be providing their set-top boxes for their service (if it ever launches) but has also stated it will provide a CAM for non Boxer iDTVs and set top boxes if a viewer decides to subscribe to the pay service at a later stage.
So basically only one iDTV or set-top box will be required to receive the RTÉ FTA DTT mux or the Boxer Pay DTT service.

DMC

The Cush wrote: »

The BCI did not award a mux to RTÉ. RTÉ received its mux under Section 3.(2)(a) of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2007.
RTÉ will not be providing DTT hardware, this will be done by AV manufacturers selling Irish-DTT compliant iDTVs and set-top boxes thru retail outlets - Boxer hardware will not be required as the RTÉ mux channels will be broadcast FTA.
Boxer will of course be providing their set-top boxes for their service (if it ever launches) but has also stated it will provide a CAM for non Boxer iDTVs and set top boxes if a viewer decides to subscribe to the pay service at a later stage.
So basically only one iDTV or set-top box will be required to receive the RTÉ FTA DTT mux or the Boxer Pay DTT service.

Yes, RTÉ's mux was a gift of the Act, rather than the BCI.
Therefore, we are waiting for generic MPEG4 DVB-T2 decoders or TV's to appear. And the chance that they hit the market before Boxer does, is high, imo.

This is a bit removed from Freesat, tbh.

bk

DMC wrote: »

In effect, what was handed out by the BCI was RTÉ get a mux to broadcast on, and Boxer get a contract to provide a service across a few muxes with Boxer's hardware in each home. I've not heard of RTÉ bringing out their own hardware. Knowing Denis O'Brien and litigation, he won't allow that to happen.

Hi DMC, sorry if I wasn't clear, The Cush explained what I was trying to say much better.

RTE obviously won't make their own boxes, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if RTE work with and even encourage manufacturers to produce integrated Freesat/DTT boxes.

At the very least it is clear that the manufacturers will do it anyway, the only question is how widely will it be distributed, how heavily advertised and how well integrated.

And also can I ask, why are we always so afraid of ligation here. In the UK the BBC have done much more, building two very successful platforms, Freeview and Freesat, much to the chargin of Sky and Virgin, why can't RTE do the same?

Just because Comreg/BCI decided to licence a couple of muxes to Boxer, doesn't mean that RTE has to follow their lead, RTE is completely independent of Comreg/BCI and aren't licensed by them (other then spectrum with Comreg). RTE can advertise, develop and integrate the FTA mux in whatever way they like and developing an integrated Freesat/DTT boxes isn't out of question.

The Cush

DMC wrote: »

Yes, RTÉ's mux was a gift of the Act, rather than the BCI.
Therefore, we are waiting for generic MPEG4 DVB-T2 decoders or TV's to appear. And the chance that they hit the market before Boxer does, is high, imo.

This is a bit removed from Freesat, tbh.

The Irish standard is DVB-T not DVB-T2.
I own a "generic" DVB-T/MPEG4 Sony KDL-26V4500 iDTV. Sony and Philips have a range of MPEG4 iDTVs on the market.

copacetic

The Cush wrote: »

The Irish standard is DVB-T not DVB-T2.
I own a "generic" DVB-T/MPEG4 Sony KDL-26V4500 iDTV. Sony and Philips have a range of MPEG4 iDTVs on the market.

DVB-T isn't the Irish standard. There isn't one as yet. Remember all the current broadcasts are tests, nothing more.

The Cush

copacetic wrote: »

DVB-T isn't the Irish standard. There isn't one as yet. Remember all the current broadcasts are tests, nothing more.

With less than 12 months to go before Ireland launches its DTT service I am surprised regular posters do not yet know what the standard is.
DVB-T/MPEG4/MHEG5 IS the Irish DTT standard. Ireland's DTT service will launch in Autumn 2009. The DVB-T2 standard is not yet an approved standard and hardware will not be available until late 2009 when the UK will convert one multiplex to launch 3-4 HDTV channels using DVB-T2/MPEG 4, the UK is the only country with definite plans to use this standard. Too late to be the Irish launch standard, it may become the Irish standard after analogue switchover when the final two multiplexes are awarded for HDTV services.

From Minimum Receiver Requirements for DTT in Ireland v1.0

Receiver
A device used for the reception of DVB-T signals.

Set-top Box (STB)
A stand-alone receiver used to enable a television to display a DVB-T service.

3.1 Tuner & Demodulator
Input Connector IEC 169-2[2], Female
Input signal level -10 to -70 dBm
Frequency Range 470-862 MHz
Demodulation 16 QAM and 64 QAM in accordance with EN 300 744
Carrier Mode 8k
FEC Mode Rate 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8
Guard Interval 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32
The Receiver shall be able to scan the entire frequency range indicated above, and use the information from the PSI/SI tables to automatically display all available Channels to the viewer.

ETSI EN 300 744 V1.5.1 (2004-11) is DVB-T

From Comreg's Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial (DVB-T) Network Technical Conditions attached to a Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Licence

1.1 Purpose
This document specifies characteristics for the operation of a Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial (DVB-T) transmission network under a Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Licence.

2.3 DTT Transmission characteristics
2.3.1 Transmission Standard
The Transmission Standard used shall be the DVB-T standard as specified in EN 300 744.

The current RTENL broadcasts are (pre-launch) engineering test transmissions during the infrastructure build programme to prepare the network for the delivery of digital television. The trial ended in July, at that time MPEG4/DVB-T was confirmed as the standard over MPEG2/DVB-T, there was never any doubt that DVB-T would be the demodulation standard, only whether MPEG2 or MPEG4 decoding would be used.

DMC

Jaysus, a small little 2 derails a thread. I was talking to someone earlier in the day offline about Sky HD, Freesat and standards, DVB-S and DVB-S2, and the little 2 just went in on the fly, sorry folks!

In responce to bk's comment on litigation, a lot of media issues here have been sorted in the courts; think back to the most relevant one to here, ITV being brought to the High Court in London by its then outpost, TV3, for going FTA. As to why can't RTÉ do the same, economies of scale, tbh.

copacetic

The Cush wrote: »

With less than 12 months to go before Ireland launches its DTT service I am surprised regular posters do not yet know what the standard is.
DVB-T/MPEG4/MHEG5 IS the Irish DTT standard. Ireland's DTT service will launch in Autumn 2009. The DVB-T2 standard is not yet an approved standard and hardware will not be available until late 2009 when the UK will convert one multiplex to launch 3-4 HDTV channels using DVB-T2/MPEG 4, the UK is the only country with definite plans to use this standard. Too late to be the Irish launch standard, it may become the Irish standard after analogue switchover when the final two multiplexes are awarded for HDTV services.

From Minimum Receiver Requirements for DTT in Ireland v1.0

ETSI EN 300 744 V1.5.1 (2004-11) is DVB-T

From Comreg's Digital Video Broadcasting Terrestrial (DVB-T) Network Technical Conditions attached to a Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Licence


The current RTENL broadcasts are (pre-launch) engineering test transmissions during the infrastructure build programme to prepare the network for the delivery of digital television. The trial ended in July, at that time MPEG4/DVB-T was confirmed as the standard over MPEG2/DVB-T, there was never any doubt that DVB-T would be the demodulation standard, only whether MPEG2 or MPEG4 decoding would be used.

I'm sure you wil agree that all of the above could change very easily, until there are official boxes released nothing is the Irish 'standard'. The market is changing day to day.

T2 has been under test in the UK for as long as T has here. Boxes will be ready for middle of next year.

There is a case to be made that it would be a major mistake for Ireland to rollout DVB-T network just when it is becoming obsolete. The extra bandwidth it provides might make DTT viable against Freesat.

It is very early to make assumptions about what we will be seeing when DTT is actually launched in Ireland (or even making assumptions about when).

As for the 2 muxes for HDTV, that is an interesting vierwpoint, where did you get that information?


EDIT - apologies for going further off topic.

The Cush

copacetic wrote: »

I'm sure you wil agree that all of the above could change very easily, until there are official boxes released nothing is the Irish 'standard'. The market is changing day to day.

The standard in now set in stone (or paper if you wish), network build is underway (with contracts awarded), multiplex contracts awarded and more and more consumer products with DVB-T/MPEG4 incorporated appear on the market as more European countries launch DVB-T/MPEG4 DTT networks.
The "official boxes" will be based on the national standard (set by the national regulator) not the other way round.

copacetic wrote: »

T2 has been under test in the UK for as long as T has here. Boxes will be ready for middle of next year.

DVB-T tests were carried out by RTE in 1998, 2001 and 2004 (not to mention the recent trial which ended in July).
The first DVB-T2 test from a real TV-transmitter was performed by the BBC Research & Innovation in the last week of June 2008 using channel 53 from the Guildford transmitter, southwest of London, with the world's first reception of HD pictures over DTT using DVB-T2 on 29 August.

copacetic wrote: »

It is very early to make assumptions about what we will be seeing when DTT is actually launched in Ireland (or even making assumptions about when).

No assumptions

the RTE mux will carry the national services (as required by law) and whatever channels they choose to add to the mux. Boxer has indicated in its submission to the BCI MUX licence tender the services it will carry on its muxs (if it ever launches).

The Dept of Communications has

stated that it will begin a national DTT information campaign in March 2009, in advance of the autumn 2009 launch date. Analogue switch-off must be complete by 2012.

copacetic wrote: »

As for the 2 muxes for HDTV, that is an interesting vierwpoint, where did you get that information?

2 further national muxs are to be awarded as per the Broadcasting Bill 2008 (Seanad) (Part 8)currently making its way through the Oireachtas, one to RTE, one for tender by the new BAI. It is reasonable to assume that these muxs will be made available after ASO (2012) for HDTV services using the then tried and tested DVB-T2 standard with receiving equipment being widely available at reasonable cost as the UK service will have been up and running for over 2 years at that time.

icdg wrote: »

Guys, talk about DTT in the Terrestrial forum!

To take this back to satellite - I note that www.sat4free.ie is now down. I'm wondering if Freesat's solicitors have been on to Alba about this. Have the recievers been pulled from stores?

Apologies, just replying to posts in this forum.
Is it possible to move the posts to the Terrestrial Forum?

luckat

icdg, sorry about asking about TVs, but I'm kind of getting the whole package, and need to know something about what would work with which.

I'm probably not alone in this, either.

I'm still a bit dazzled by all these acronyms. Been using a box TV for 20 years, latterly with rabbit's ears, and so I really don't understand all this talk about HDs and muxs.

Basically, I want to buy a reasonably priced and reasonably good TV, connect up a free satellite system with as many channels as possible and sit down on a comfy sofa and gawp at it. This is the limit of my technological desire.

redout

Luckat use the terrestrial forum for tv questions. Already been told this by mods. Go here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=56 there is a thread about the Panasonic tv's in there that work with the upcoming Irish DTT and also have an inbuilt freesat receiver. That Tv will allow you to view the new Irish DTT and both the use of Sky tv with digibox and http://www.freesat.co.uk/ without the need for a receiver. I see that you mentioned free satellite then forget about sky and just use it for its inbuilt freesat receiver. This tv means that you will need to buy no receiver just pop up a dish and run the cable to your tv and off you go.

Zonda999

I gotta be honest, i dont know a whole lot about satellite and DTT(And what the difference between them is for that matter) but if possible i would love to see a way in which i could get freesat-HD, the freeview channels that are'nt on freesat yet, and all the irish channels using my sky dish and one set-top box.

I know RTE are supposed to start digital transmission in august 2009 so i'm going to try and set that as the date at which all of these are possible.Where i live aint that isolated, only 10 miles or so outside Cork city.However the analogue reception here is so bad, we simply had to get sky for decent picture.Will this situation be any different when dtt is launched??Will we have to be able to get dtt with sky quality?? I would like to think so.

As for freesat-hd, i would be able to get that now because i have a sky dish and two spare slots on the lnb.From what i gather on freesat, the humax "foxsat" box is the only one that can also recieve freeview channels as well as the freesat channels.I know this is the case in the uk but what about here?? Are we able to get these freeview channels here in the same way??

Finally do ye think by then, there'll be a freesat or sat4free box available that can do all that humax can do, as well as have an mpeg4 tuner to get RTE??

Thanks for the help.All this stuff confuses the s**t outta me!

The_Conductor

Zonda999 wrote: »

However the analogue reception here is so bad, we simply had to get sky for decent picture.Will this situation be any different when dtt is launched??Will we have to be able to get dtt with sky quality?? I would like to think so.

If you have an atrocious analogue reception- its highly unlikely that the signal strength will be sufficient to support a clear DTT signal. If you can get DTT- it should be superior to Sky quality- particularly when RTE up the bitrate.

Re: signal strength- does anyone know what the story is with the wildly flucuating signal strengths from 3Rock? I can't get a strong enough signal to support DTT, and have big problems with analogue too. Crystal Clear RTE1 and TG4- but I can't even get a signal lock on RTE 2 and TV3 (viewing it without locking it is one hell of a way to get a migraine.......)

S.

The Cush

Zonda999 wrote: »

I gotta be honest, i dont know a whole lot about satellite and DTT(And what the difference between them is for that matter) but if possible i would love to see a way in which i could get freesat-HD, the freeview channels that are'nt on freesat yet, and all the irish channels using my sky dish and one set-top box.

The Irish channels are only available with a Sky subscription.
Freesat HD (BBC HD + ITV HD, Channel 4 HD later) available with freesat HD receiver but no Irish channels.
The freeview channels not available on freesat (Sky 3, UKTV History, 4Music, Dave, Virgin 1, TMF, Five US, Fiver, Sky Sports News) are only available with a Sky subscription together with the Irish Channels but no UK HD channels.
Freeview channel Sky News is available with a Sky receiver or as an added channel on a freesat receiver.

No easy one box solution I'm afraid.

The closest solution to match your requirements would be the new Panasonic freesat TV's with a Sky receiver and subscription.

Zonda999 wrote: »

I know RTE are supposed to start digital transmission in august 2009 so i'm going to try and set that as the date at which all of these are possible.Where i live aint that isolated, only 10 miles or so outside Cork city.However the analogue reception here is so bad, we simply had to get sky for decent picture.Will this situation be any different when dtt is launched??Will we have to be able to get dtt with sky quality?? I would like to think so.

From what transmitter do you receive your "bad" analogue TV reception, Spur Hill Cork or Mullaghanish?
Is your aerial internal (attic or rabbits-ears) or external? UHF aerial required for Spur Hill, UHF and VHF required for Mullaghanish.
Was the aerial installed by a professional installer or was it a diy job? Might be worth getting it checked out, could be misaligned aerial, wrong aerial or bad cabling etc.

I live in NE Limerick and receive a good TV signal from Mullaghanish which I boost further with a masthead amplifier, you are probably closer to Mullaghanish than I am so a good signal should be possible unless of course there is an obstacle in the way such as a hill, wind farm etc.

If you are not getting a good analogue signal now, the reception of the lower power DTT signal might be difficult.

The quality of the DTT channels should match that of Sky. This will of course depend upon the broadcasters and multiplex operators and how many channels they cram in on the limited bandwith available to DTT compared with satellite which can affect the channel's resolution (see this link for freeview multiplexes bit-rate, channel resolution etc.).

Zonda999 wrote: »

As for freesat-hd, i would be able to get that now because i have a sky dish and two spare slots on the lnb.From what i gather on freesat, the humax "foxsat" box is the only one that can also recieve freeview channels as well as the freesat channels.I know this is the case in the uk but what about here?? Are we able to get these freeview channels here in the same way??

First off Freeview is a UK only DTT service, it is not available in Ireland with the exception of the border region due to overspill of the signal.
No freesat box can receive freeview, Humax or otherwise. No freeview box can receive freesat.
The exception is the Panasonic Viera freesat TV range which can do both (this range of TVs is not officially available in Ireland and does not include a VHF tuner). It's reported elsewhere in the forums that the tv's are able to receive the Irish DTT test transmissions (MPEG4 decoding) but not officially acknowledged by Panasonic (UK DTT uses MPEG2 decoding).

Zonda999 wrote: »

Finally do ye think by then, there'll be a freesat or sat4free box available that can do all that humax can do, as well as have an mpeg4 tuner to get RTE??

All freesat receivers are basically the same. What do you think the Humax can do that the others can't?
Cannot see a combo UK freesat / Irish DTT receiver anytime in the near future.

Zonda999

smccarrick wrote: »

If you have an atrocious analogue reception- its highly unlikely that the signal strength will be sufficient to support a clear DTT signal. If you can get DTT- it should be superior to Sky quality- particularly when RTE up the bitrate.

S.

I should be able to get a clear signal alright.Theres a big aerial on the roof, which not too long ago, gave us a fine picture.May need adjust ing but i amgine a clear dtt signal is well possible.thanks for the help

The Cush wrote: »

The Irish channels are only available with a Sky subscription.
Freesat HD (BBC HD + ITV HD, Channel 4 HD later) available with freesat HD receiver but no Irish channels.
The freeview channels not available on freesat (Sky 3, UKTV History, 4Music, Dave, Virgin 1, TMF, Five US, Fiver, Sky Sports News) are only available with a Sky subscription together with the Irish Channels but no UK HD channels.
Freeview channel Sky News is available with a Sky receiver or as an added channel on a freesat receiver.

No easy one box solution I'm afraid.

The closest solution to match your requirements would be the new Panasonic freesat TV's with a Sky receiver and subscription.



From what transmitter do you receive your "bad" analogue TV reception, Spur Hill Cork or Mullaghanish?
Is your aerial internal (attic or rabbits-ears) or external? UHF aerial required for Spur Hill, UHF and VHF required for Mullaghanish.
Was the aerial installed by a professional installer or was it a diy job? Might be worth getting it checked out, could be misaligned aerial, wrong aerial or bad cabling etc.

I live in NE Limerick and receive a good TV signal from Mullaghanish which I boost further with a masthead amplifier, you are probably closer to Mullaghanish than I am so a good signal should be possible unless of course there is an obstacle in the way such as a hill, wind farm etc.

If you are not getting a good analogue signal now, the reception of the lower power DTT signal might be difficult.

The quality of the DTT channels should match that of Sky. This will of course depend upon the broadcasters and multiplex operators and how many channels they cram in on the limited bandwith available to DTT compared with satellite which can affect the channel's resolution (see this link for freeview multiplexes bit-rate, channel resolution etc.).



First off Freeview is a UK only DTT service, it is not available in Ireland with the exception of the border region due to overspill of the signal.
No freesat box can receive freeview, Humax or otherwise. No freeview box can receive freesat.
The exception is the Panasonic Viera freesat TV range which can do both (this range of TVs is not officially available in Ireland and does not include a VHF tuner). It's reported elsewhere in the forums that the tv's are able to receive the Irish DTT test transmissions (MPEG4 decoding) but not officially acknowledged by Panasonic (UK DTT uses MPEG2 decoding).



All freesat receivers are basically the same. What do you think the Humax can do that the others can't?
Cannot see a combo UK freesat / Irish DTT receiver anytime in the near future.

Thanks a million for that very informative post. Where to start, About a mile up the road form my house there is a perfect view to mullaghanish. Unfortunately there is a hill blocking it from my house.Spur hill also kind of blocked but like i said above theres a really tall aerial on the roof, which i believe would be able to get a clear digital signal from spur hill.

Disappointed to hear that those freeview channels are impossible to get over here.No matter, the only thing i could see myself missing is those music channels and possibly sky-sports news.About that humax reciever, it says here that the humax is also able to pick up other FTA channels not strictly in freesat.There a few i can spot here. Would I be able to pick any of the channels here with any freesat box?? I would get that humax box anyway though because it seems to be the only one with component as well as hdmi output

Tbh i cant see myself getting a panasonic pz81.I guess what i'm looking at is a freesat box, and another stb thats able to pick up Rte on dtt.I'm still not put off by the idea though.Thanks again:)

The Cush

Zonda999 wrote: »

Thanks a million for that very informative post.

About that humax reciever, it says here that the humax is also able to pick up other FTA channels not strictly in freesat.There a few i can spot here. Would I be able to pick any of the channels here with any freesat box?? I would get that humax box anyway though because it seems to be the only one with component as well as hdmi output

Tbh i cant see myself getting a panasonic pz81.I guess what i'm looking at is a freesat box, and another stb thats able to pick up Rte on dtt.I'm still not put off by the idea though.Thanks again:)

First off, your welcome glad to help.

"Freesat channels" are FTA satellite channels that have paid a fee to freesat for a position on the freesat epg with 7/8 days programme information available. The other FTA satellite channels can be added manually and appear from epg position 3000 onwards with only now and next info.
When freesat was launched only the Humax box had the capability to manually add other FTA channels but a software update in Jun allowed the other boxes to do the same.

Irish DTT should be up and running by this time next year, by that time there should be a large range of iDTVs (some may even have a freesat tuner) on the shelves, so when it comes time to replace your current tv you will have the chance to reduce the number of boxes under the tv.

Zonda999

The Cush wrote: »

First off, your welcome glad to help.

"Freesat channels" are FTA satellite channels that have paid a fee to freesat for a position on the freesat epg with 7/8 days programme information available. The other FTA satellite channels can be added manually and appear from epg position 3000 onwards with only now and next info.
When freesat was launched only the Humax box had the capability to manually add other FTA channels but a software update in Jun allowed the other boxes to do the same.

Irish DTT should be up and running by this time next year, by that time there should be a large range of iDTVs (some may even have a freesat tuner) on the shelves, so when it comes time to replace your current tv you will have the chance to reduce the number of boxes under the tv.

Thanks again. I think i understand it now. Unfortunately, i dont think my new tv can wait a year. Looking to get a nice 1080p 40" sony in a couple of months. Anyway, a two box solution does'nt sound too bad. Its the RTE coverage thats the crucial bit though. Once some sort of stb is able to get rte, another stb for freesat is no problem.

I know that dtt is definitely starting in august but is that for the whole country?? i.e, Will it be available everywhere straight away?? I hate the idea of only dublin getting straight way and the rest of us having to wait.

watty

80% coverage.

40" is a bit small for HD BTW, but a HD set is best solution for ordinary TV from 28" to 42" size

Zonda999

Great, it should be available straight away from spur hill in cork:D:D

I'm gonna hold onto sky until then.Freesat may be much better then too.Theyre will probabaly be a lot more hd channels available. Not holding my breath on "RTE HD" though.....

copacetic

The Cush wrote: »

The standard in now set in stone. The "official boxes" will be based on the national standard (set by the national regulator) not the other way round.

We will have to wait on see on that one, since you have so much knowledge on this and the previous history of DTT rollout I'm surprised you aren't allowing a bit more wiggle room

The Cush wrote: »

DVB-T tests were carried out by RTE in 1998, 2001 and 2004 (not to mention the recent trial which ended in July).
The first DVB-T2 test from a real TV-transmitter was performed by the BBC Research & Innovation in the last week of June 2008 using channel 53 from the Guildford transmitter, southwest of London, with the world's first reception of HD pictures over DTT using DVB-T2 on 29 August.

Apologies, obviusly I should have been clearer, I assumed you would realise I meant the current mpeg4 tests in Ireland have been going on around the same amount of time as the T2 tests in the UK.

The Cush wrote: »

No assumptions

Again this is just semantics I guess, I'm saying you are making assumptions about what will end up happening. You are saying they aren't assumptions because it's been said what will happen. My argument is that saying is a long way from doing, as has happened in the past in this very area

The Cush wrote: »

2 further national muxs are to be awarded as per the Broadcasting Bill 2008 (Seanad) (Part 8)currently making its way through the Oireachtas, one to RTE, one for tender by the new BAI. It is reasonable to assume that these muxs will be made available after ASO (2012) for HDTV services using the then tried and tested DVB-T2 standard with receiving equipment being widely available at reasonable cost as the UK service will have been up and running for over 2 years at that time.

Aha, now you are making assumptions! It is very unlikely imo that the 2 muxes will be assigned for HD services, very doubful that even one will be fully assigned for HD.

watty

The Irish standard is MPEG4 video, MHEG5 EPG/Interactive on MPEG2-TS using DVB-t.

The gear is bought or ordered for RTE headend and also Distribution & TX. It's not going to change.

RTENL has even bought the gear to do Boxer assuming that they are extremely unlikely to try and build huts outside the mast compounds with their own gear and then feed it up the RTENL masts.

There will be no DVB-t2 in short term. RTE has not the money for HD any time soon either.

It's not absolutely finalised how much spectrum there is after Analogue Switch off or when exactly that will happen.

The set boxes DO have to match or exceed the Irish Spec.

MPEG4, MHEG5 and DVB-t. Of course a DVB-t2 box will also do DVB-t.

An MPEG2 only box will be useless.

The Cush

copacetic wrote: »

We will have to wait on see on that one, since you have so much knowledge on this and the previous history of DTT rollout I'm surprised you aren't allowing a bit more wiggle room

Very little wiggle room so close to launch, the 4 analogue channels must switchover to digital by 2012, 2015 at the latest, unlike the previous attempt to launch DTT almost a decade ago when there were no deadlines. The only wiggle may be Boxer's failing attempt to launch a pay DTT service due to the credit crunch as reported in the Sunday Independent.

copacetic wrote: »

Apologies, obviusly I should have been clearer, I assumed you would realise I meant the current mpeg4 tests in Ireland have been going on around the same amount of time as the T2 tests in the UK.

DVB-T = MPEG4, a wiggle, sorry, assumption too far.

copacetic wrote: »

My argument is that saying is a long way from doing, as has happened in the past in this very area

Agreed.

copacetic wrote: »

Aha, now you are making assumptions!

Damn you got me, happy now :rolleyes:

copacetic wrote: »

It is very unlikely imo that the 2 muxes will be assigned for HD services, very doubful that even one will be fully assigned for HD.

Hard fact or assumption

copacetic

The Cush wrote: »

Hard fact or assumption

educated guess, against your educated guess though. We'd have nothing to put on one HD mux, never mind two imo.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

It's not absolutely finalised how much spectrum there is after Analogue Switch off or when exactly that will happen.

Comreg are due to launch a Digital Dividend Strategy consultation this quarter following their Annual Conference on the "Digital Dividend".

The strategy will no doubt be influenced by the ongoing process within the EU thru the RSPG, the RSC in conjunction with the ERO/CEPT, the EU Commission is also carrying out a Study on "Exploiting the Digital Dividend", a European Approach and the EBU, all together the EU processes mentioned are further influenced by the outcome of the ITU's WRC07 which co-allocated UHF channels 61-69 (790-862 MHz) to mobile use from 17 June 2015.
This may lead to an EU Directive on a common approach to the spectrum freed up by Analogue Switchover.

The UK is well into the process with its Digital Dividend Review (DDR)

The USA's Digital Dividend (700 MHz auction) which ended in Mar raised $19.592 billon.