Man sued for Ebay Comment! Madness.

Biggins · 23-10-2008 10:16pm #1

I've heard it all now.
Man who was sold the wrong phone on eBay is sued by seller after leaving 'negative feedback'

See here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1079968/A-man-sold-wrong-phone-eBay-sued-seller-leaving-negative-feedback.html

Thats just crazy!

Latchy · 23-10-2008 10:21pm

Havent they changed the rules recently in Ebay about giving back bad feedback ? Sounds weird tbh

Biggins · 23-10-2008 10:51pm

Buyers can leave feedback but sellers can't respond in kind (as revenge) by putting down the buyer.

dudara · 23-10-2008 10:53pm

Moved to Online Buying & Auctions

dudara

Our man in Havana · 23-10-2008 11:05pm

It will never see a courtroom. County Court judges in the UK would dismiss his claim as vexatious at the preliminary hearing.

jor el · 23-10-2008 11:18pm

If the comment was placed on eBay's feedback system, then eBay are responsible for it. He should be suing eBay over this, not the buyer.

I doubt it'll get very far though, it's a frivolous case, and even an idiot judge should see through it.

Biggins · 23-10-2008 11:48pm

Here's hope so.
In the meanwhile the seller just gets an even worse name for himself and gets more exposure for his frak-up!

derry · 24-10-2008 5:47am

jor el wrote: »

If the comment was placed on eBay's feedback system, then eBay are responsible for it. He should be suing eBay over this, not the buyer.

I doubt it'll get very far though, it's a frivolous case, and even an idiot judge should see through it.

2nd point first I don't think it is frivolous for the seller as he claims he will go bust

First point that he should sue EBay is exactly why I can see he aimed at Buyer

Best I can tell with EBay they are impossible to contact with issues and just prefer to wait for sellers to go bust as there is a constant conveyor belt of sellers and they probably all sign up to term where they agree to bound by EBays rules

EBay own s and makes the crap table that every body plays on

So if EBay wont solve a problem for a seller then like the Olyimpic dope test runners who took the Olyimpic rules body to court and got the Olyimpic body rules changed to suit another countries laws , then this is a no brainer for the buyer to try out a similar stratagy

Under UK law if the sellers complaint is upheld the judge can choose to order Ebay to change its rules to suit the UK legal system which will cause EBay to either agree to this or shut up shop in the UK

The buyer is not to big a risks to suffer anything too punitive as this war of the legal precidents wages over his head as he can say he was not deliberitly intending to do anything wrong and probaly quickly it becomes a EBay V UK legal System V buyer issue

The seller has a lot of the cards in his hands as he now own the phone and has compansated the buyer to the UK legal requirements

The buyer has no evidence just an opinion which he has chosen to publish as EBay allows him to do this

The seller has as a result of this published remark suffered economic loss

The seller has copped that he must sue either the Publisher that is EBay or the buyer to have this remark removed or negate the damage the remark makes such as not making his position in the screen go down from a negitive remark whatever

Could be interesting as the EU laws on this would be even more severe than UK law

I suspect the achilles heal of Ebay is to attack the buyer who will probably not have good resources to fight a case like EBay would and get EBay dragged into the case

I think EBay will discover fast that UK law and USA law are not the same thing and probably have the whole thing sorted before it goes to court as if they lost as in the judge favours the seller the flood gates would open for all sorts of legal problems for them

That buyer has one hell of a smart UK lawer if you ask me

If this was a standard case like say a newspaper then the seller would wait one week for the remark to withdrawn as incorrect and signed up to as such

The buyer now has made a remark which is difficult to prove as all the evidence is now with the seller who has a reputation to defend

If the buyer refused to remove the remark the Judge could take a harsh line and decide the buyer was acting the b****x and would say without evidence this was unfounded attack on his reputation and he could incurr severe damages in court to repay to the Seller

In newspapers it often doesn't happen as the remarkes are done though reporter who check the facts of the case first

If the judge found in favor of the seller he can then possibly sue the newspaper publisher for spreading a untruth or slanderous remark
So getting at the buyer can sometimes get at the publisher

If the seller sign the form that he made an error he might be removing all his defence and admiting liability

Rock and a hard place but lucky most judges dont tend to come down to hard on joe soaps but it risky biscuit stuff especialy with UK judges who are often pro big busness

Derry

jor el · 24-10-2008 8:39am

derry wrote: »

2nd point first I don't think it is frivolous for the seller as he claims he will go bust

If a single negative comment on eBay is enough to drive him out of business, then he's probably not a very good businessman. I suspect the seller is filling this law suit with exaggerations, which hopefully a judge will see right through.

I still think it's a frivolous claim. The buyer bought a phone of a particular type, that was in good working order. What he got was a damaged phone of a different type, which is what he said. Even though he got a refund, this is not a positive experience for the seller as he will have had to send the phone back, wait for his refund, then find the phone he actually wants and buy it later. The refund doesn't undo the fact that the seller miss-sold the phone in the first place.

Good points in the rest of the post regarding eBay and how the operate. Will be interesting to see how it goes.

Jack Bauer999 · 24-10-2008 9:33am

derry wrote: »

2nd point first I don't think it is frivolous for the seller as he claims he will go bust

First point that he should sue EBay is exactly why I can see he aimed at Buyer

Best I can tell with EBay they are impossible to contact with issues and just prefer to wait for sellers to go bust as there is a constant conveyor belt of sellers and they probably all sign up to term where they agree to bound by EBays rules

EBay own s and makes the crap table that every body plays on

So if EBay wont solve a problem for a seller then like the Olyimpic dope test runners who took the Olyimpic rules body to court and got the Olyimpic body rules changed to suit another countries laws , then this is a no brainer for the buyer to try out a similar stratagy

Under UK law if the sellers complaint is upheld the judge can choose to order Ebay to change its rules to suit the UK legal system which will cause EBay to either agree to this or shut up shop in the UK

The buyer is not to big a risks to suffer anything too punitive as this war of the legal precidents wages over his head as he can say he was not deliberitly intending to do anything wrong and probaly quickly it becomes a EBay V UK legal System V buyer issue

The seller has a lot of the cards in his hands as he now own the phone and has compansated the buyer to the UK legal requirements

The buyer has no evidence just an opinion which he has chosen to publish as EBay allows him to do this

The seller has as a result of this published remark suffered economic loss

The seller has copped that he must sue either the Publisher that is EBay or the buyer to have this remark removed or negate the damage the remark makes such as not making his position in the screen go down from a negitive remark whatever

Could be interesting as the EU laws on this would be even more severe than UK law

I suspect the achilles heal of Ebay is to attack the buyer who will probably not have good resources to fight a case like EBay would and get EBay dragged into the case

I think EBay will discover fast that UK law and USA law are not the same thing and probably have the whole thing sorted before it goes to court as if they lost as in the judge favours the seller the flood gates would open for all sorts of legal problems for them

That buyer has one hell of a smart UK lawer if you ask me

If this was a standard case like say a newspaper then the seller would wait one week for the remark to withdrawn as incorrect and signed up to as such

The buyer now has made a remark which is difficult to prove as all the evidence is now with the seller who has a reutation to defend

If the buyer refused to remove the remark the Judge could take a harsh line and decide the buyer was acting the b****x and would say without evidence this was unfounded attack on his reputation and he could incurr severe damages in court to repay to the Seller

In newspapers it often doesn't happen as the remarkes are done though reporter who check the facts of the case first

If the judge found in favor of the seller he can then possibly sue the newspaper publisher for spreading a untruth or slanderous remark
So getting at the buyer can sometimes get at the publisher

If the seller sign the form that he made an error he might be removing all his defence and admiting liability

Rock and a hard place but lucky most judges dont tend to come down to hard on joe soaps but it risky biscuit stuff especialy with UK judges who are often pro big busness

Derry

Best I can tell with EBay they are impossible to contact with issues and just prefer to wait for sellers to go bust as there is a constant conveyor belt of sellers and they probably all sign up to term where they agree to bound by EBays rules

1) did ebay not say "the seller never contacted us about the buyer"?
surely thats a big minus for the seller,

2) there is nothing untruth or slanderous about the feeback, surely
that can be proved by the fact the seller refunded the product thus
admiting it was not fit for purpose,

3) if the seller is worried about a negative feedback effecting his business
then surely bring coverage like this on himself showing him acting the prick
will effect his business 10 times over. as someone made the comment on
the website
"Having looked at the feedback ratings I have to say that they wouldn't have put me off buying from Mr Jones, his threat of sueing Mr Read has though"

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2008 9:25am

Look at the auction, the picture of the item is what the buyer got. I do not know what the difference is between the SAMSUNG F700 and the F700V. It looks as if the buyer did not look at the ad properly.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380061414077

The guy got his refund so why the neg?

DeVore · 25-10-2008 9:38am

Why should he sue Ebay? Thats like sueing Boards because someone said something bad about you here. I would agree if the feedback read "this guy is touches up kids" because then its clearly libelous but it doesnt and what it does say is a validly held opinion as it stands. Sueing the platform is ludicrous in this day and age, its like shooting the soapbox makers...

DeV.

Our man in Havana · 25-10-2008 9:38am

No doubt a clever lawyer will try to have ebay joined in the proceedings as the publisher.

This obviously an attempt to get around the sellers can't leave neg feedback policy. I can't see how 1 neg can have such an impact on this sellers business. If is not as if he only has 100 feedback.

samhail · 25-10-2008 9:42am

Nice analysis derry !

The buy is not able to log into eBay directly and change their feedback (ive been caught on that one once or twice).

I actually laughed on the bus on the way in when i read this article.
id love if ebay were bombarded with emails from buyers asking them if they leave bad feedback are they going to sued.

that seller has 9 bad feedback out of 550+ over the last year. thats not all that bad. definetedly over reacting in my opinion. and i hope the result in this case gets the same publicity has been given to it already. i dont thing buyers should be left with no option if they get a bad product.

I hope the buyer did pay though Paypal, and made a complaint through there.
The Paypal system when a buyer makes a complaint that the item they recieved was not as described in their ad, puts the onus on the buyer to prove that the item was not as described.
If he did do that, then all he needs to say is that his case was already looked at and decided in his favour.

also... i wonder whether the seller will have to prove that it was actaully this person that logged into the poor buyers account and posted that horrible comment.

Our man in Havana · 25-10-2008 9:46am

The old system was no postitive feedback from seller unless positive feedback is left by the buyer. Now the seller cannot leave neg feedback so buyers are now free to tell the truth about certain sellers. I guess the truth hurts sometimes.

25-10-2008 9:57am

Theres nothing stopping anyone ruining a sellers reputation. People can leave bad feedback if the postman was sick.

Our man in Havana · 25-10-2008 1:11pm

Fox News featured the story just now. Even they said the seller has no case and that he is just a cry baby. They even had cry baby sound effects. They then proceeded to slate ebay and paypal citing lack of federal banking oversight.

derry · 25-10-2008 2:06pm

Bond-007 wrote: »

Fox News featured the story just now. Even they said the seller has no case and that he is just a cry baby. They even had cry baby sound effects. They then proceeded to slate ebay and paypal citing lack of federal banking oversight.

Typical right wing fractured informational news station

First they slate the victim without to check all the facts like is english law the same as USA law

Then they mix up Ebay and pay pal issues
Paypal allows you to store money with them and yet they are not a registered bank and so really shouldnt allow that and so circumvent federal banking rules which fox objects too on behalf of the big banks who dont ;like PayPal
Then other weeks FOX slate the Feds for the regulations they impose to control rougue banks or worse outfits than PayPal who operate way past any rules

FOX are skitzo mad head bangers

Derry

Latchy · 25-10-2008 6:48pm

He got his payment back from seller and could have left a positive or neutral comment like '' all sorted '' which means both he and the seller are happy with and resolved outcome . Once he left the negitive seller has a right to be angry although taken him to court may be a bit OTT .Maybe something to take on board for all sellers and buyers

byte · 25-10-2008 9:59pm

While Sellers cannot retort with Neg Feedback, can they not make a comment on the Neg. Feedback they receive? So that when they get neg, they reply to the Feedback with an explanation as to why they got it?

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2008 10:11pm

Our man in Havana · 25-10-2008 10:15pm

Wow!

Just goes to show there are 2 sides to every story.

Latchy · 25-10-2008 10:28pm

I think from my own ebay expierences some people are to quick to leave negitive feeback when their could be a simple explanation for an item not arriving on time such as late postage or lost in transit .

I recently sold some items on ebay for a nice price .Their was a booklet to go with the items but the items were the primary selling product and the book was more as an after thought i added at last minute .After recieving payment and sending off items i recieved an email from buyer saying ''some pages were missing from booklet '' .This was news to me as i was quite sure the booklet had all pages when i sent it however after a few friendly exchanges via email i offered to refund payment as soon as items returned .5 days passed and got email saying '' have had a re think and decided to keep items '' Now i am pretty sure those pages were in booklet and i also think that buyer got a bargin as i had seen similar items sell for a higher price than i obtained so you do sometimes have to ask, do some people just like to be stroppy while knowing they have had a bargin ? My feedback is %100

JJ · 27-10-2008 9:01am

Bond-007 wrote: »

No doubt a clever lawyer will try to have ebay joined in the proceedings as the publisher.

A clever lawyer would know or find out that eBay's user agreement (which both parties in this case agreed to) says that all eBay members will not hold eBay responsible for "the truth or accuracy of feedback or other content posted by users on our sites".

JJ · 27-10-2008 9:06am

Bond-007 wrote: »

The old system was no postitive feedback from seller unless positive feedback is left by the buyer.

I do not recall eBay ever having such a system.

Under the old system, the buyer and seller could leave any type of feedback at any time after the listing ended/buyer commited to purchase for up to 90 days after the listing ended or 30 days after the first feedback was left, whichever was longer.

Our man in Havana · 27-10-2008 9:39am

It was a defacto situation. A buyer would not receive any feedback until the buyer had left feedback for the seller.

Our man in Havana · 27-10-2008 9:40am

JJ wrote: »

A clever lawyer would know or find out that eBay's user agreement (which both parties in this case agreed to) says that all eBay members will not hold eBay responsible for "the truth or accuracy of feedback or other content posted by users on our sites".

That agreeement may be against the laws of the United Kingdom. Just because 2 people agree does not make it legal or absolve ebay as a publisher of it's legal obligations.

Orla K · 27-10-2008 9:47am

why isn't he after this person instead

recieved phone, not as descripted! phone is blacklisted and can't be used BEWAREBuyer: elaine0091 ( 22

)
23-Sep-08 15:01

Reply by onsalexuk (08-Oct-08 00:43):

FRAUDSTER - BEWARE OF THIS BUYER RETURNED A TIN OF SARDINES INSTEAD OF C902

SONY ERICSSON C902 UNLOCKED TO ANY NETWORK (#380064187574)£165.00View Item
and why didn't he leave negative on her page? (she has 100% positive although only 15 in 12 months but how much can one person buy from e bay)

also he probably should have gotten more negative, if you look at the neutral there are some negative ones there.

JJ · 27-10-2008 10:29am

Bond-007 wrote: »

It was a defacto situation. A buyer would not receive any feedback until the buyer had left feedback for the seller.

Ah yes, I know what you mean.

Bond-007 wrote: »

That agreeement may be against the laws of the United Kingdom. Just because 2 people agree does not make it legal or absolve ebay as a publisher of it's legal obligations.

Could be, I'm no legal eagle but eBay does have its own legal eagles like every big company does.

Orla K wrote: »

and why didn't he leave negative on her page?

Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore.

Orla K · 28-10-2008 10:55am

JJ wrote: »

Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore.

Yes but you'd still think that he would want to sue her more than the other guy.

Man sued for Ebay Comment! Madness.

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