American Cars Appreciation thread

samsemtex

Sick of reading ill informed bullship about american cars being crap when its based on nothing other than some drivel Jeremy Clarkson comes out with every so often so i think we should have a thread dedicated to praising their wonderful cars.

American muscle cars have been putting out cars with well in excess of 350bhp since the 60s and european cars are only doing that now at a huge premium. And as far as im concerned american cars just look cooler.

Here are some porn:




I know its technically a nissan but they were designed purely for the american market and look great.

dr.bollocko

Yeah they do depreciate quite badly over here.
Oh wait... Appreciate?
I'm off!

shaywest

ever tried driving one?

SV

American cars..great?



riiiiight.

samsemtex

shaywest wrote: »

ever tried driving one?

Have you? Driven mustangs in the states. Class car, well balanced if a little dodgy in the wet due to no ABS.

superjosh9

Well, for my money, and I wrote it here somewhere before, the best car in the world for cruising long distance at say 100mph the entire way, is:



Lincoln Towncar. I've driven about 20 of them by now, and in terms of comfort, they are miles ahead of German things or any other euro-boxes. Safety is also first class. Air suspension, huge cabin, rwd, air-con that works...

Bad sides, in this climate, it's not very economical, but that V8, my God, it's a fantastic engine and whooshes you along.

And the best part? In America, a brand new one of these, with every option from electric seats to satellite radio, will cost about the same as a Mondeo.

samsemtex

ClioV6 wrote: »

American cars..great?



riiiiight.

So what exactly do you know about American cars? That two of the 10 fastest production cars ever around the Nurburgring are the Dodge Viper and the Chevrolet corvette ZR1? The only cars faster/similar are supercars that cost well over half a million...and the nissan GTR which i have great respect for although it is still slower than the ZR1

jaycen

They do look great, Detroit designers have hit the target many times

They are a lot of fun to drive but tend to handle a bit like a boat, I tried slinging a mustang around a carpark once, it was still pitching when we were at a stop :rolleyes: but that's the entertainment really.

samsemtex

superjosh9 wrote: »

Well, for my money, and I wrote it here somewhere before, the best car in the world for cruising long distance at say 100mph the entire way, is:



Lincoln Towncar. I've driven about 20 of them by now, and in terms of comfort, they are miles ahead of German things or any other euro-boxes. Safety is also first class. Air suspension, huge cabin, rwd, air-con that works...

Bad sides, in this climate, it's not very economical, but that V8, my God, it's a fantastic engine and whooshes you along.

And the best part? In America, a brand new one of these, with every option from electric seats to satellite radio, will cost about the same as a Mondeo.

I agree with you there. I wouldnt drive one but my god are they comfortable. And the sound out of the engine is class. Tickin over at about 1500rpm at 100mph. Nothin like that over here that wont cost you an arm and a leg.

jaycen

samsemtex wrote: »

So what exactly do you know about American cars? That two of the 10 fastest production cars ever around the Nurburgring are the Dodge Viper and the Chevrolet corvette ZR1? The only cars faster/similar are supercars that cost well over half a million.

They did have quite a bit of fettling done :rolleyes: and their drivers weren't exactly civvies either lol.

superjosh9

jaycen wrote: »

They do look great, Detroit designers have hit the target many times

They are a lot of fun to drive but tend to handle a bit like a boat, I tried slinging a mustang around a carpark once, it was still pitching when we were at a stop :rolleyes: but that's the entertainment really.

I think it's because the yanks recognise that cars are driven on roads, as opposed to billiard smooth tables...

I can't for the life of me understand why people over here go for 'sports' suspension that crashes around through pot-holes and will tramline more than normal. Probably rattling their fillings out. Frankly, if I'm going to the shops, *I'm going to the shops!*, I don't need a car that is set-up to attack a lap of the nurburgring - I need a car set-up to be compliant over rough pot-holes and speed-bumps.

So, in my old 940, I have HIGH-profile tyres, and yes it pitches and rolls a bit, but that can often make for quicker progress over our crappy roads. But even the 940s short-comings are highlighted after a stint in America in a towncar or the like...

Once upon a time, I drove a Porsche around Dublin btw, so I have a fair idea.

superjosh9

samsemtex wrote: »

...Tickin over at about 1500rpm at 100mph..

exactly!

FOGOFUNK

They just dont do it for me tbh, never driven any though so cant comment on the drive.

And you say they've been creating 350+bhp since the 60's? They have but extremely inefficiently.

SV

samsemtex wrote: »

So what exactly do you know about American cars?

More than I need to know.


Wouldn't drive one into a wall.

FOGOFUNK

samsemtex wrote: »

Tickin over at about 1500rpm at 100mph.

Similar in a 6spd deisel.

Big Nasty

I am delighted to see a thread on this topic here!

There are a huge amount of american car enthusiasts in this country, with muscle cars being the more popular. These cars were built to go fast in a straight line, not to tackle our curvy country roads. That said, many of the enthusiasts I know have up-graded brakes and suspension in order to give a safer, more enjoyable driving experience while still keeping the look of the car concours. As a petrol head there ain't no more enjoyable a sound then the rumble of a big V8 - and they tend to turn more heads than any Ferrari.

There is also an Irish on-line forum for muscle car enthusiasts that some of you may enjoy:

http://www.americanmusclecarsireland.net/portal.php

SV

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

Similar in a 6spd deisel.

Was gonna say that!

jaycen

superjosh9 wrote: »

I think it's because the yanks recognise that cars are driven on roads, as opposed to billiard smooth tables...

I can't for the life of me understand why people over here go for 'sports' suspension that crashes around through pot-holes and will tramline more than normal. Probably rattling their fillings out. Frankly, if I'm going to the shops, *I'm going to the shops!*, I don't need a car that is set-up to attack a lap of the nurburgring - I need a car set-up to be compliant over rough pot-holes and speed-bumps.

So, in my old 940, I have HIGH-profile tyres, and yes it pitches and rolls a bit, but that can often make for quicker progress over our crappy roads. But even the 940s short-comings are highlighted after a stint in America in a towncar or the like...

Once upon a time, I drove a Porsche around Dublin btw, so I have a fair idea.

Think that's really the difference I could drive the Dodge on any road here in comfort and control at a good pace, changes in the road itself wouldn't upset the car.

samsemtex

jaycen wrote: »

They did have quite a bit of fettling done :rolleyes: and their drivers weren't exactly civvies either lol.

And you think Nissan and Porsche just sent out a normal road user to set their lap times do you? These times are of standard production cars with no modding. Get over it.

superjosh9

ClioV6 wrote: »

Wouldn't drive one into a wall.

but... you drive a clio?

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

Similar in a 6spd deisel.

granted similarities between huge torque figures, but that's getting into a discussion of Diesel vs. Petrol - and I'm a fan of both. In fact, Rudolf Diesel is a bit of a hero of mine.

SV

superjosh9 wrote: »

but... you drive a clio?

and your point is?

samsemtex

ClioV6 wrote: »

More than I need to know.


Wouldn't drive one into a wall.

You drive a clio v6 so are prob a boy racer, therefore its more than likely that anything driven by you will end up in a wall...

SV

samsemtex wrote: »

You drive a clio v6 so are prob a boy racer, therefore its more than likely that anything driven by you will end up in a wall...

I don't drive a cliov6, and if I did..a boy racer?! Driving a Cliov6?

you don't have a clue what you're talking about...then again..thinking american made cars are good..I already knew that.

spank_inferno

I had a go at a GMC pickup truck last November
Only 2 years old, 6 litre engine can seat 5 despite being a pickup, huge thing.

Obviously its not the same as the above cars but still, I push on the brake pedal and think... "Surely I should start to slow down soon?!!"
I could turn the steering wheel 5-10 degrees without the vehicle actualy turning.
In 2 wheel drive mode it had zero traction
Poorely put together, all rattles, dashboard components didnt fit together right with noticible gaps in between


Also drove a 2002 Pontiac Bonniville, around 3 litre engine, slow but comfortable.... the only way to drain petrol faster would be to shoot a hole in the tank


So in summation..... american cars = bad

jaycen

samsemtex wrote: »

And you think Nissan and Porsche just sent out a normal road user to set their lap times do you? These times are of standard production cars with no modding. Get over it.

Sorry dude but you're way off target there, they're only production in name (check their tyres for a start), as was the Skyline, don't have a breakdown because someone points something out. K

superjosh9

ClioV6 wrote: »

you don't have a clue what you're talking about...then again..thinking american made cars are good..I already knew that.

but... you drive a clio?

Big Nasty

boys, oh boys - this is an american car APPRECIATION thread. while everyone's opinion matters - if you don't APPRECIATE american cars then DON'T POST!!!

I don't appreciate soccer - therefore I don't open soccer related threads - end of!

samsemtex

ClioV6 wrote: »

I don't drive a cliov6, and if I did..a boy racer?! Driving a Cliov6?

you don't have a clue what you're talking about...then again..thinking american made cars are good..I already knew that.

Go back and read your latest edition of max power and whatever tiesto cd you have playin in your clio. Leave real car enthusiasts talk about what they actually know...cars of all types.

Do this for me and maybe ill stop thinking you are a fool. Name one car that is as fast as the Corvette ZR1 that costs the same money.

SV

superjosh9 wrote: »

but... you drive a clio?

Again.. I ask..what's your point?

or do you actually have nothing worthwhile saying?

samsemtex wrote: »

Go back and read your latest edition of max power and whatever tiesto cd you have playin in your clio. Leave real car enthusiasts talk about what they actually know...cars of all types.

Do this for me and maybe ill stop thinking you are a fool. Name one car that is as fast as the Corvette ZR1 that costs the same money.

Your ignorance is astounding.

you reckon you know cars of all types and think a Cliov6 is a boy racer car..lol, good man!

oh and..just because it's a faster car for cheaper..doesn't neccesarily mean it's better.

superjosh9

spank_inferno wrote: »

I had a go at a GMC pickup truck last November
Only 2 years old, 6 litre engine can seat 5 despite being a pickup, huge thing.

Obviously its not the same as the above cars but still, I push on the brake pedal and think... "Surely I should start to slow down soon?!!"
I could turn the steering wheel 5-10 degrees without the vehicle actualy turning.
In 2 wheel drive mode it had zero traction
Poorely put together, all rattles, dashboard components didnt fit together right with noticible gaps in between


Also drove a 2002 Pontiac Bonniville

So in summation..... american cars = bad

Yeh, I was never a G.M fan, but I dislike Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Cadillacs etc. - in the same way I dislike Opels too. That's why it killed me when GM took over Saab..

I agree that the interior are of a low-grade, but then they are to a price.

ScumLord

European and American cars are two completely different kettle of fish.

European manufacturers put allot of top notch engineering and technology into their cars while Americans go for big, cheap and powerful. I think their cars are wasteful but have to admit they have an impressive presence about them. If I was living in America I'd probably want one but over here in Europe they're impractical and a posers car. The old muscle cars however are pure class, the new ones disappoint me in that they've put little thought into the car it's just bigger and faster with a new lick of paint, it's lazy but classic American I suppose.

For Irish roads the rally cars are the best. I like to have some practicality about my sports cars.

samsemtex

superjosh9 wrote: »

Yeh, I was never a G.M fan, but I dislike Pontiacs, Chevrolets, Cadillacs etc. - in the same way I dislike Opels too. That's why it killed me when GM took over Saab..

I agree that the interior are of a low-grade, but then they are to a price.

It really does sicken me that I can never buy a Saab because GM took them over. They will forever more be junk or at least until someone else buys the brand.

Biro

samsemtex wrote: »

So what exactly do you know about American cars? That two of the 10 fastest production cars ever around the Nurburgring are the Dodge Viper and the Chevrolet corvette ZR1? The only cars faster/similar are supercars that cost well over half a million...and the nissan GTR which i have great respect for although it is still slower than the ZR1

I like some American cars. They do the job they were designed to do very well and for very reasonable money. Had a Corvette ZHZ for a few days and it's a brilliant car, no doubt about it. Great engine, great sound, wasn't bad on the fuel economy considering it's a 6.2 V8, comfortable, satellite radio and other such niceties, buttons on the rear view mirror as well as a compass, fantastic traction control (you realise how good when you turn it off!), and it's a great price. There are drawbacks though. The handling is excellent, but the suspension is on the unsophisticated side. It wouldn't compose itself all that well I imagine if you threw it at some dodgy Irish road for example. But then it doesn't need to, cause it's made in America for Americans.
Suspension sophistication doesn't come cheap though.

FOGOFUNK

samsemtex wrote: »

Do this for me and maybe ill stop thinking you are a fool. Name one car that is as fast as the Corvette ZR1 that costs the same money.

In fairness you cant really go around calling people boy racers with an attitude like that, it just shows you are one. In fact its what boy racers asre all about, cheap and fast.

I like ZR1's but I would defo kill myself if I drove one. And just because its cheap and fast doesnt make it good.

superjosh9

ClioV6 wrote: »

Again.. I ask..what's your point?

or do you actually have nothing worthwhile saying?

Nah, I just don't get why you are here, that's all. We get that you don't like American cars - but come to think of it, have you driven any?

And the reason I keep pointing out that you drive a Clio, is because, well, I don't understand how you could say American cars shouldn't even be driven into walls, when you drive a Clio.

But alas, I don't blame you, but "Autocar" and Jeremy Clarkson, and all those that pretend to know about what's important about cars. The truth is when you put a car up on a ramp, which I often do myself, you will see that there is very little between any car, whether its costs €100,000 or a tenth of that. So, since American cars are cheap, I like them.

Biro

superjosh9 wrote: »

I think it's because the yanks recognise that cars are driven on roads, as opposed to billiard smooth tables...

I can't for the life of me understand why people over here go for 'sports' suspension that crashes around through pot-holes and will tramline more than normal. Probably rattling their fillings out. Frankly, if I'm going to the shops, *I'm going to the shops!*, I don't need a car that is set-up to attack a lap of the nurburgring - I need a car set-up to be compliant over rough pot-holes and speed-bumps.

So, in my old 940, I have HIGH-profile tyres, and yes it pitches and rolls a bit, but that can often make for quicker progress over our crappy roads. But even the 940s short-comings are highlighted after a stint in America in a towncar or the like...

Once upon a time, I drove a Porsche around Dublin btw, so I have a fair idea.

The answer is simple. You're not a petrol head.

Mr.David

superjosh9 wrote: »

Nah, I just don't get why you are here, that's all...........


........all those that pretend to know about what's important about cars............

The truth is when you put a car up on a ramp, which I often do myself, you will see that there is very little between any car...........

since American cars are cheap, I like them.

1. Its a Forum

2. What is important about cars is subjective

3. There is a huge difference between different cars.

4. If its cheap cars you like why not get a Matiz or similar? Must be your dream car then as its so cheap?

5. Live rear axles. Wow. Its like a 3-legged donkey.

p.s. : I do like certain american cars, but that doesnt mean that they are necessarily good cars. They are fun and boyish but from an engineering perspective they are dinosaurs.

Max_Damage

The Ford Crown Victoria is one of the best police cars ever, that and the old Chevrolet Caprice 9C1 (1978-1990 model).

Marcus.Aurelius

I drove loads of american cars when I was over there for a few months with an uncle who deals second hand stuff.

They're really well appointed and very smooth and comfortable. But the roll in the corners and the awful reliability issues scared me off ever buying one. Except for the Toyotas/Acuras/Nissans/Hondas I wouldn't touch any car there, unless it was made somewhere else.

samsemtex

Biro wrote: »

The answer is simple. You're not a petrol head.

Just because he puts a different emphasis on what he likes about a car does not mean he isnt a petrol head. I consider boy racers who look into the engines of civics not petrol heads because some sleeper car like a c43 with staggering performance could drive by them and they wouldnt even notice. Most of them wouldnt even look twice at an alfa until Jeremy clarkson said they were cool. And these are the people that are considered petrol heads by most. Bunch of lads in a petrol station all line up in their Evo's and old 318s, a mercedes 190e 2.6 cosworth in great condition drove by and not one of them noticed it despite it being better than the 3 series that was out at the time in ever way :rolleyes:

Those people are not petrol heads.

Zube

Most people in the states don't drive cars at all, they drive trucks, jeeps and vans. The cars you do see tend to be Japanese, with some high end European saloons, or cheap crap like the Dodge Neon.

"Cars" like the Lincoln Town Barge are a tiny niche, and will die soon at 15 mpg.

FOGOFUNK

samsemtex wrote: »

Just because he puts a different emphasis on what he likes about a car does not mean he isnt a petrol head. I consider boy racers who look into the engines of civics not petrol heads because some sleeper car like a c43 with staggering performance could drive by them and they wouldnt even notice. Most of them wouldnt even look twice at an alfa until Jeremy clarkson said they were cool. And these are the people that are considered petrol heads by most. Bunch of lads in a petrol station all line up in their Evo's and old 318s, a mercedes 190e 2.6 cosworth in great condition drove by and not one of them noticed it despite it being better than the 3 series that was out at the time in ever way :rolleyes:

Those people are not petrol heads.

Yeah they are. Except they dont have grey hair.

Biro

samsemtex wrote: »

Just because he puts a different emphasis on what he likes about a car does not mean he isnt a petrol head.

Yes, it does.

samsemtex wrote: »

I consider boy racers who look into the engines of civics not petrol heads because some sleeper car like a c43 with staggering performance could drive by them and they wouldnt even notice. Most of them wouldnt even look twice at an alfa until Jeremy clarkson said they were cool. And these are the people that are considered petrol heads by most. Bunch of lads in a petrol station all line up in their Evo's and old 318s, a mercedes 190e 2.6 cosworth in great condition drove by and not one of them noticed it despite it being better than the 3 series that was out at the time in ever way :rolleyes:

Those people are not petrol heads.

I completely agree. They're image concious plebs who think they're petrol heads. I drove into my local town in an NSX to show a mate one evening, and one of the local "petrol head" asked if it was a kit car.
But anyone who thinks spongey suspension is a good thing and anything "sporty" is a bad thing clearly isn't a petrol head. They may like certain cars, but they're not a real petrol head.
And the 190 Cosworth is a bit of a legend alright!

samsemtex

FOGOFUNK wrote: »

Yeah they are. Except they dont have grey hair.

So its not actually a requirement to have any interest or knowledge of cars, outside of a tiny portion of what your friends think is cool, to be a petrol head?

Anyway this is getting of the topic.

superjosh9

Biro, I'm disappointed. Read what I said before, I was clearly saying that certain set-ups are apt for certain roads.

I'm that guy who will go driving at 4 a.m on a Tuesday morning because it's the only time I can drive fast and the way I used to. My God, I was *this* close to becoming a professional racing-driver, and now this is the kind of stuff I hear, simply because I've grown up a little and actually learned a thing or two?

It's a bit sad when the guys who apparently "know" about cars are those who drive hoovers with neon-lights on them - and "know" about cars because they read about something in a magazine. And it's the same morans that keep crashing too come to think of it.

FOGOFUNK

Well its not a car from our generation. These guys watch rallying and drifting. The cars they see are Imprezas, Evos, Ae86's, and all the nissans. Whats an iconic car for an older generation isnt for a younger generation.

You cant say young guys arent petrol heads when they spend all their money on their cars and all their time under them.

In fairness, anyone who doesnt know what a NSX is shouldnt be called a petrol head. And this has gone wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic.

samsemtex

Can we get back on topic please!!!?

Any opinions on the new mustang? I think its pretty badass lookin!

Biro

superjosh9 wrote: »

Biro, I'm disappointed. Read what I said before, I was clearly saying that certain set-ups are apt for certain roads.

I'm that guy who will go driving at 4 a.m on a Tuesday morning because it's the only time I can drive fast and the way I used to. My God, I was *this* close to becoming a professional racing-driver, and now this is the kind of stuff I hear, simply because I've grown up a little and actually learned a thing or two?

It's a bit sad when the guys who apparently "know" about cars are those who drive hoovers with neon-lights on them - and "know" about cars because they read about something in a magazine. And it's the same morans that keep crashing too come to think of it.

That explanation is fine, and redeems you, it's the earlier comment where you were basically saying that the Lincoln Town Car is great and anyone who picks something that is sporty is an idiot who doesn't know what he's missing that I was going by. Based on the earlier comment I had only one conclusion to jump to, based on your post above you're coming back into the petrol head world again!

Biro

New Mustang isn't too bad, but I do love the new Camero. I think bumblebee really sold it to me!

FOGOFUNK

The roof looks silly. And I dont like the way the front and back are kinda sqaure, then its curve mania over the cockpit.

Big Nasty

The new retro style pony cars are cool - combining classic style with modern technology. Once again Ford has led the way, much as in the '60's. I'm still more of an old school fan!

Here's a few shots of my tranny: