PPP Irish Open and WInter Festival Cash Game Rake

mikser

This was nothing short of disgraceful at Easter - will there be manners on it this time.

It should be transparent and reasonably (!) competitive.

I have heard so many people complain about this at Easter - it is a really bad reflection on PPP too, even if they subcontracted.

Mikser

BigCityBanker

Mikser,

Feel free to elaborate further on your initial point.

At Easter ever delaer tray had a laminated piece of paper attached specifying the table rate. this was also displayed next to the cash game area desk. How much more transparent do you want?

Can you also on what you mean by saying will there be manners on it?

protective

mikser wrote: »

This was nothing short of disgraceful at Easter - will there be manners on it this time.

It should be transparent and reasonably (!) competitive.

I have heard so many people complain about this at Easter - it is a really bad reflection on PPP too, even if they subcontracted.

Mikser

maybe some signs along the m50 and and advert during eastenders would help...

just a thought....

or maybe if u dont like the rate u dont play,i'm sure the gun to your head is not loaded..

mikser

Put simply, it was too high.

BCB - I can sense you are annoyed at this, but so were many players I spoke to. The organisers need to listen to this reaction.

I found the rake shocking myself.

Mikser

mikser

Let me make a fair suggestion - please spell out the rake here and let posters comment. Fair?

Mikser

mikser

protective - you are living up to your name - maybe try defensive - I sense the industry ganging up on me.

I want to play the tourneys AND cash. I just don't want to feel that it is UNDULY expensive - no self-respecting player should play REGARDLESS of rake.... I think.


mikser

bohsman

lol, ...this is... too obvious.

ROONEYED BY 2/3

:mad:

mikser wrote: »

protective - you are living up to your name - maybe try defensive - I sense the industry ganging up on me.

I want to play the tourneys AND cash. I just don't want to feel that it is UNDULY expensive - no self-respecting player should play REGARDLESS of rake.... I think.


mikser

I agree but it is very difficult in fairness the only way this can be done is to take a leaf from the cash games at ladbrooks killarney every body pays per half hour, i tink it was a great idea but still i listened to lots of moners hard to please the world.
:pac:

Ace2007

mikser wrote: »

I want to play the tourneys AND cash.

mikser

this is clearly the wrong attitude to have - you play a tourney to win, not to get knocked out and to then play cash....

Hectorjelly

Ace2007 wrote: »

this is clearly the wrong attitude to have - you play a tourney to win, not to get knocked out and to then play cash....

lol

OpenEnded

play the fitz tourney on saturday night. you'll be saving money from the rake and about 1500 from the tourney buyin....

CHD

Could PPP or The Jackpot ( If its them running it) post up the rake charges?!

PiperT

mikser wrote: »

This was nothing short of disgraceful at Easter - will there be manners on it this time.

It should be transparent and reasonably (!) competitive.

I have heard so many people complain about this at Easter - it is a really bad reflection on PPP too, even if they subcontracted.

Mikser

I really think this thread is worthy of a bump/further discussion.

I ventured over to Citywest to play some cash yesterday and could not see details of rake on display anywhere. Despite this I sat into a game anyway.

Playing a 100NL game it was apparently €16pp per hour. Full ring = €160/hr

At one point my table was 3-handed due to people out smoking or whatever. All three stay in for the €5 straddle (pot €15) - Straddler leads, fold, fold, and the dealer rakes €5 leaving €10 in the pot.

When all three of us protest to the dealer - he says its the rake, standard, nothing he can do about it. This is obviously not about the fiver but more the principal of the whole thing.

We call the floor who eventually tells the dealer to give back the €5. He explains that "he" was responsible for putting the dealers under pressure for rake and apologised. He also accepted that the rake was excessive but that was not his decision.

Apart from the rake being astronomical, I would say it was anything but transparent and I am amazed that so many people (including) myself actually accepted it.

Suckers, comes to mind.

I really believe PPP need to do something about this because whilst it may not be under their direct control, it certainly reflects on their brand in what is a very close knit and influential poker community.

Rant Over.

bops

i'd happily pay twice that rake everyday if you can get that many clueless monkeys with deep pockets together to give it away

fwiw i didn't even notice the rake :pac:

semibluff

bops wrote: »

i'd happily pay twice that rake everyday if you can get that many clueless monkeys with deep pockets together to give it away

fwiw i didn't have a winning hand so rake didnt apply to me

FYP

funnyname

PiperT wrote: »

Playing a 100NL game it was apparently €16pp per hour. Full ring = €160/hr

At one point my table was 3-handed due to people out smoking or whatever. All three stay in for the €5 straddle (pot €15) - Straddler leads, fold, fold, and the dealer rakes €5 leaving €10 in the pot.

Rant Over.

If it's €16ppph, why is the money being raked from the pot, I thought someone called around every hour/half hour and collected from all the players?

Hawk Eye

are live pots raked even if its taking down preflop cause online it never is no matter how big the pot gets? can't say Ive ever noticed it, probably cause there's nearly always a flop in live play..

PiperT

funnyname wrote: »

If it's €16ppph, why is the money being raked from the pot, I thought someone called around every hour/half hour and collected from all the players?

Standard everywhere in Dublin anyway...I've never seen it collected from players except in England.

RichardB2

BigCityBanker wrote: »

Mikser,

Feel free to elaborate further on your initial point.

At Easter ever delaer tray had a laminated piece of paper attached specifying the table rate. this was also displayed next to the cash game area desk. How much more transparent do you want?

Can you also on what you mean by saying will there be manners on it?

Couldn't see any evidence of laminated pieces of paper on any of the dealer trays
or do I mean "ever Delaer" tray out at City West.
Care to make a "mannerly" comment Noel?

funnyname

PiperT wrote: »

Standard everywhere in Dublin anyway...I've never seen it collected from players except in England.

Might be standard but doesn't seem very equitable, if €160 has been raked after half an hour is the last half hour rake free?

rx8

A Fitz cash-game regular, who I spoke to on Saturday evening told me that the €1/€2 NL was being raked at €12 p.p.per1/2hr !,and more for higher limits.

If this is true,and I have no reason to doubt it,then questions need to be asked as to why it is so high. At the Irish Open,last Easter I witnessed similar incidents to that described by PiperT above.

It's not right that the two biggest buy-in poker festivals in Dublin are becoming the two biggest rip-off's aswell.

Maybe it's time somebody else ran the Cash-Games.We all know that JP,Big-Slick,Carfax and a few others are well able to run a decent game.
Come on Paddy Power, tell the Jackpot to bring their prices in line or kick them out!

Wolves

i would like to ask noel or any other from PPP why there is no cap on the rake in any particular hand?

during the 250 game there had admittedly been a lull with only small pots for about 10 mins then i won a pot totalling 1075euro and i got back 1025euro. is 50euro for one pot not excessive? when i asked the dealer he said he had no cap on a hand and generally raked 5euro for each 100 in the pot.

ShipIt

Wolves wrote: »

i would like to ask noel or any other from PPP why there is no cap on the rake in any particular hand?

during the 250 game there had admittedly been a lull with only small pots for about 10 mins then i won a pot totalling 1075euro and i got back 1025euro. is 50euro for one pot not excessive? when i asked the dealer he said he had no cap on a hand and generally raked 5euro for each 100 in the pot.

If true this is criminal!

BigCityBanker

RichardB2 wrote: »

Couldn't see any evidence of laminated pieces of paper on any of the dealer trays
or do I mean "ever Delaer" tray out at City West.
Care to make a "mannerly" comment Noel?

have you went and posted under your wrong boards acc?

i will enquire and respond in due course.

cooker3

rx8 wrote: »

A Fitz cash-game regular, who I spoke to on Saturday evening told me that the €1/€2 NL was being raked at €12 p.p.per1/2hr !,and more for higher limits.

If this is true,and I have no reason to doubt it,then questions need to be asked as to why it is so high. At the Irish Open,last Easter I witnessed similar incidents to that described by PiperT above.

It's not right that the two biggest buy-in poker festivals in Dublin are becoming the two biggest rip-off's aswell.

Maybe it's time somebody else ran the Cash-Games.We all know that JP,Big-Slick,Carfax and a few others are well able to run a decent game.
Come on Paddy Power, tell the Jackpot to bring their prices in line or kick them out!

Why would they change it when people pay it anyway?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Nobody is twisting your arm to play the cash games, you can choose not to if your not happy with the rake being applied

Goodluck2me

Could Noel also please make sure that Aces don't keep getting cracked, because it makes it looks like PPP live games are as rigged as online.

tm2204

Pablo Elegant Pigeon wrote: »

Nobody is twisting your arm to play the cash games, you can choose not to if your not happy with the rake being applied

Not the point. The rake should be advertised for all players to see and not applied inconsistently so that players don't understand whats going on.

If they want to charge 10% rake with no cap then thats their right as long as players are told this or it is widely displayed/advertised. Players can then choose to play or not.

The Poker Room

Hi,

Played cash at the Winter festival, mostly heads up but the rake was posted on the desk on an A4 page, although most people didn't have cause to go to the desk. It wasn't posted on the rake chip trays.

At the IPo also run by the Jackpot, The rake was posted on a large 4foot sign behind the sign up board, which was much more transparent.

With regards to Killarney, with the half hourly table charge it was much more transparent but was not executed very well, the dealer on my table actually lost her rake at one point and accused a player of taking it, comedy gold. They also couldn't tell time very well, 1/2 an hour was 25 minutes on Saturday night.

I think everyone agrees to pay Rake it just needs to be Posted and not 3 or 4 times the national average. IMO

carfax

The Poker Room wrote: »

At the IPo also run by the Jackpot, The rake was posted on a large 4foot sign behind the sign up board, which was much more transparent.

:eek: The IPO was run by pokerireland.ie

Stephen Mc Lean
www.pokerireland.ie

Fatboydim

Can I get this straight as it doesn't sound right - But it seems as if a table charge was levied AND rake?????

Surely it's one or the other?

Sometimes at Casinos [Such as the Vic] you'll get a table charge on the lower buy in tables and rake on the higher buy ins but never both at the same time.

Jayminator

Fatboydim wrote: »

Can I get this straight as it doesn't sound right - But it seems as if a table charge was levied AND rake?????

Surely it's one or the other?

Sometimes at Casinos [Such as the Vic] you'll get a table charge on the lower buy in tables and rake on the higher buy ins but never both at the same time.

Twas a rake only I can confirm. (Dont ask BCB, sure he cant even get the starting times of tournys correct let alone answer rake questions)......''I assure you Jay its a 3pm start''.....They were his exact words I swear.

Ace2007

Jayminator wrote: »

Twas a rake only I can confirm. (Dont ask BCB, sure he cant even get the starting times of tournys correct let alone answer rake questions)......''I assure you Jay its a 3pm start''.....They were his exact words I swear.

and what time did it start?

bohsman

Rake on the 100 game was €16 per player per hour. Max rake per pot of €25 unless it was a really slow game. A lot of dealers failed to hit targets on the 100 game anyway so rake was usually smaller, higher games were very competetive compared to rakes at festivals around Europe.

Russh

2-5 game(5-5-10)...Rake was €26 per hour...

GUKPT rake last week at Thanet was £5 per hour (1-2-4 + super straddle 8 and 16 couple of hands per round)...taken from each player...

It might not have been so bad if each player was charged individually....But you pay a hell of a lot more if your winning.....

I would have loved to go back up Sunday and Monday but just couldn't bring myself to pay so much for the privelage of playing....

Who gets the rake, Paddy Power or Jackpot or is it split...?

€4,700 for 20 hrs of poker, table of 9 is a lot of monies...

dannydiamond

bohsman wrote: »

Rake on the 100 game was €16 per player per hour.Max rake per pot of 25 unless it was a really slow game.

Am i missing something obvious here?
Was the charge on this table per hour or raked from the pots?

bohsman

From pots.

Flipper

i didn't think the rake was that bad this weekend but I did lol when i saw a dealer taking €5 from a €20 pot (in a 5/10 game)

RichardB2

BigCityBanker wrote: »

have you went and posted under your wrong boards acc?

i will enquire and respond in due course.

Good to know you're slick as ever with the belligerence & smartass quips Noel,
if you have any evidence of accounts being mis-used please pass it on.

Meanwhile can I assume you've made assiduous enquiries over the last week,
re: those rake notices on the tables you seemed to expect at the IWP?
Any response clarifying these things for your customers would be wonderful.

mikser

I opened this thread, but havnt been back since ppp winter fest ... great festival and FULL credit to ppp on that. played most of the tourneys w/o a result ... but no complaints at all.

As for the cash, I played a bit ... couldn't get over the rake ... it was the subject of conversation at the table .. no one happy but no one wanting to make a stance (me incl) ... so my stance was to stop playing after a couple of hours of feeling like an eejit and I won't be back to those cash games.

IMO should be a charge per hour.


If the ppp and jackpot think this doesn't impact perception and ultimately numbers they are wrong --- they could have a great vibrant well supported cash game without going for the rip-off.