Budget attack on home owners - what do people think ?

richardw001

What I'm surprised at is that this reduction on TRS has'nt had more publicity - When you think of all the people that upgraded to bigger mortgages over the last few years - some of these people would be struggling to pay back - an probably would be counting to the last euro in terms of repayments.
Luckily for me I'm still a first time buyer - however I have to say that in a month where they bail out the banks - the government increases the cost of mortgages to some home owners - thats a real kick in the teeth.

And to justify it by saying that it funds the increase for first time buyers ? -I would have thought that there would be more people paying mortgages more than 7 years than first time buyers. And that those people will be by and large paying bigger amounts back.
It just seems to me that there was either no thought behind this - or that theres thought - and its aimed at making mortgage owners lives more difficult with little regard for ability to pay.

old boy

the idea for first time buyers is to help out the banks and develepors, do you really think that they had poor old joe public in mind, shame on you, your caught, its the ones that are not caught that are needed.

ednwireland

and don't forget the 200 euro tax on all those investment proprties which we now find doesn't go tò the local authority at all really helping those struggling to pay mortgages

gurramok

People who upgraded to 'bigger mortgages' should have enough cop on to realise to only take out a mortgage that they can afford to keep.

A 5% decrease in TRS for non-FTB would be negligible to those who bought before the boom(hence lack of reaction) but would hurt those who bought at the height of the boom with non-FTB status

grahamo

Totally unfair what the govt. did. Another kick in the b*llix for the working man. Unfortunately for me I'm a 2nd time buyer who had to buy a bigger place when the kids came along. I think FTB's are getting enough help at the moment what with already generous tax relief and falling house prices. But then again its nothing to do with looking after Joe Public. Its all about the TD's bailing out their banking and builder buddies.

jaycen

ednwireland wrote: »

and don't forget the 200 euro tax on all those investment proprties which we now find doesn't go tò the local authority at all really helping those struggling to pay mortgages

In fairness, €200 on an investment property was a real cop out, a 1% levy on the value would have been a much better and fairer idea.

jmayo

jaycen wrote: »

In fairness, €200 on an investment property was a real cop out, a 1% levy on the value would have been a much better and fairer idea.

Ah but what are the vlaues of some of these second properties.
It would make interesitng reading to find out how much the apartment in Mullingar or Carrick on Shannon is now really worth.

To OP life isn't fair.
Why should tax payers who didn't take out huge mortgages, pay more tax so that those that did get more relief and tax breaks ?

Also does OP really think that the home choice or mortgage relief for FTBs is becuase the government care that he has a home ?
It is becuase the government want to help their building buddies unload all the sh*** they are sitting on and they are using the pretence that their is VAT tied up in this boxes that needs to be relased back to the exchequer.

Moriarty

If someone is "counting to the last euro in terms of repayments" with a base eurozone lending rate of 4.25% there's only one word for them - idiots.

mikemac

jmayo wrote: »

Why should tax payers who didn't take out huge mortgages, pay more tax so that those that did get more relief and tax breaks ?

+1
A renter get a pretty misreable tax relief, maybe around 400 euro a year.
A person paying a mortage can get thousands in relief.

Is it realy neccesary to give home buyers such a benefit at all? Sure it increases affordability which in turn increases asking prices. Possibly something that needs to be reviewed.

nesf

micmclo wrote: »

+1
A renter get a pretty misreable tax relief, maybe around 400 euro a year.
A person paying a mortage can get thousands in relief.

Is it realy neccesary to give home buyers such a benefit at all? Sure it increases affordability which in turn increases asking prices. Possibly something that needs to be reviewed.

People who can afford to buy homes would tend to pay far more tax than those who can't afford to buy homes though. The tax relief they get is far outweighed by the amount they pay on income tax to be honest (whether you think this is fair or not is up to you but seriously the middle class do get screwed badly by the income tax bands so it's not unreasonable for them to expect some tax relief schemes that might not be of much use to the lower paid). Whether it increases prices or not is a bit of a moot point once the tax relief is available to everybody.

Macha

nesf wrote: »

People who can afford to buy homes would tend to pay far more tax than those who can't afford to buy homes though. The tax relief they get is far outweighed by the amount they pay on income tax to be honest (whether you think this is fair or not is up to you but seriously the middle class do get screwed badly by the income tax bands so it's not unreasonable for them to expect some tax relief schemes that might not be of much use to the lower paid). Whether it increases prices or not is a bit of a moot point once the tax relief is available to everybody.

You're making the assumption that anyone who can afford to buy, buys. I could have bought but I'm not stupid and could see the way the market was going. Plus, with the ridiculous lending practices, many of those who couldn't afford to buy, bought anyway.

The government has already skewed the market through their TRS by incentivising everyone to buy - at a time when rent is practically equal to the monthly mortgage payments on the same property. Why exactly is it a good idea for everyone to buy and have a small, insufficiently regulated rental market? Oh wait, yeah..the builders..

nesf

taconnol wrote: »

You're making the assumption that anyone who can afford to buy, buys. I could have bought but I'm not stupid and could see the way the market was going. Plus, with the ridiculous lending practices, many of those who couldn't afford to buy, bought anyway.

No I wasn't making that assumption I was pointing out that on average those claiming rent relief and those claiming mortgage interest relief are going have quite different income levels, which is true. Though my choice of language was poor and I can see why you'd think that I was making such an assumption.

taconnol wrote: »

The government has already skewed the market through their TRS by incentivising everyone to buy - at a time when rent is practically equal to the monthly mortgage payments on the same property. Why exactly is it a good idea for everyone to buy and have a small, insufficiently regulated rental market? Oh wait, yeah..the builders..

I agree that our rental system is simply not good enough, we need far stronger protection and rights for renters to make renting for life a viable alternative to buying your own home. I don't necessarily agree that this lack of a system benefits builders though, from their perspective it doesn't really matter whether a house will be rented or owned by an owner occupier, the house has to be built either way.

Macha

nesf wrote: »

No I wasn't making that assumption I was pointing out that on average those claiming rent relief and those claiming mortgage interest relief are going have quite different income levels, which is true. Though my choice of language was poor and I can see why you'd think that I was making such an assumption.

Even if you take this to be the case, isn't one of the main purposes of taxation the redistribution of wealth? I accept that a lot of people have considerable mortgages at the moment, but they really have no one to blame but themselves.

nesf wrote: »

I agree that our rental system is simply not good enough, we need far stronger protection and rights for renters to make renting for life a viable alternative to buying your own home. I don't necessarily agree that this lack of a system benefits builders though, from their perspective it doesn't really matter whether a house will be rented or owned by an owner occupier, the house has to be built either way.

Yes, now that I think about it you are right - I can't see a way that having a small rental market would benefit builders. But then, how can it be explained? For example, there are estimates of 40,000 empty apartments in Dublin at the moment - now nobody benefits from such a surplus of apartments except the builders who made money off building them, or the renters-and I'm pretty sure the renters aren't at the top of this government's agenda.

Also, if you look at the new measure brought in in this budget to help first time buyers, it is specifically for first-time builds. How can that be justified?

nesf

taconnol wrote: »

Yes, now that I think about it you are right - I can't see a way that having a small rental market would benefit builders. But then, how can it be explained?

Easy, is there a nationally visible renters group pushing for better rights for renters that's in the media often? The sacred cows (kids, pensioners, the low paid etc) all have visible and vocal presences, where is the one for the renters? Rights don't just happen randomly in democracies they have to be fought for.

taconnol wrote: »

Also, if you look at the new measure brought in in this budget to help first time buyers, it is specifically for first-time builds. How can that be justified?

It's pure populism but I genuinely doubt if it'll actually do much to slow the drop in house prices over the next year (poor economic conditions will tend to drive down prices, a small boost to interest relief isn't going to change this). It does however look good and makes it look like they're trying to help out the poor hard pressed FTB.

billy the squid

ednwireland wrote: »

and don't forget the 200 euro tax on all those investment proprties which we now find doesn't go tò the local authority at all really helping those struggling to pay mortgages

It will be passed on to the rent payers of these private accomodations. leaving those that can't get on the property ladder with less.

Gregor43

taconnol wrote: »

Also, if you look at the new measure brought in in this budget to help first time buyers, it is specifically for first-time builds. How can that be justified?

I believe the answer is there is no justification for restricting the benefit to newly built houses - it was obviously introduced to help bail out builders. I was always a little sceptical of the pure conspiracy theory that Fianna Fail were in bed with builders at the expense of everything else, but to me this measure at this time is proof they are gangsters, pure and simple. To dismiss this as just another misguided short-term measure of the government's would be too forgiving.

ednwireland

billy the squid wrote: »

It will be passed on to the rent payers of these private accomodations. leaving those that can't get on the property ladder with less.

damn right exactly what i'm planning to do ( i wouldnt mind i only charge a 100 euro a week for a 2 bed bungalow hardly covers the maintenance)