Zero-Tolerance Policing Policy

Lambsbread

Given the amount of "Scumbag" threads on afterhours these days, i was a little reluctant to post this. However, i do want to try and provoke some reasonable debate. This is just something I have noticed since I moved abroad and have been thinking about it more and more recently.

I was visting Dublin for a long weekend recently and did find the city a little intimidating. There seemed to be many junkies wandering around and plenty of scumbags. By sumbags i mean young people (13-21) who seem to have no respect for anyone or anything. The Garda seem to have no control over these people. They cannot touch them or they will be brought to court for assault. They arrest them and bring them to the courts and the scumbag will get a slap on the wrist. What is the point?

Would a zero-tolerance policy help prevent this?

Basically, if you get caught for smaller crimes (I mean mugging, stealing, drug and disorderly, anti-social behaviour), you either get a good hiding from the Garda, fined or jailed. My thinking is that if you cut out smaller crimes, young people will think twice before commiting the crime again or even move onto bigger crimes. It was only on reading the story below on another forum that I thought about this more.

The nerve of this kid. The place down there is full of gaurds and yet the kids still burn out cars and all in front of the gaurds. My friend's parked her car down there as she works in the IFSC, she decided to go for a few drinks one Friday night and thought her car would be safe (stupid women and all), I went in with her to collect it on the Saturday and it was burnt out. Went to Store Street and the Gaurds said it was burnt out. Ok girl made a mistake, her car got burnt out, she gets insurance payout, no big deal, no body killed I was thinking. However the Gaurd then proceeds to tell us that they know who did it and saw it but cann't prove it as it was dark and they couldn't 100% sure who it was even though they saw them break the windowns and pur the petrol. It is a joke. If kids are going to burn out cars with gaurds looking and they will shot people in the faces no problem then Dublin has developed into a city that is just full of scum.

Slow Motion

Lambsbread wrote: »

Would a zero-tolerance policy help prevent this?

Basically, if you get caught for smaller crimes (I mean mugging, stealing, drug and disorderly, anti-social behaviour), you either get a good hiding from the Garda, fined or jailed. My thinking is that if you cut out smaller crimes, young people will think twice before commiting the crime again or even move onto bigger crimes.

I'm sorry but...Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.....!

To operate a zero tolerance policy you have to have sufficient amount of guards, a court system that works, judges that will actually give punishments and prisons to hold them.

*Looks around at modern Ireland*

Nope! Don't see any of that here!

Lambsbread

I suppose. But that's why a good kicking would do the trick

Mark200

A zero-tolerance policy could mean that innocent, generally good, people will get caught by this policy and possibly face a criminal record for just being in the general area of trouble


But I agree that the police need more power to deal with the scumbags who are on the streets late at night. One guy I know got punched the other night in Temple Bar for no reason and had to go to hospital
Another friend knows a guy who, on the same night near Tripod, got hopped on by a group of people. Fortunately he was a rugby player and was able to take the 4 or 5 of them until his friends decided to help haha. But it could have been worse and the streets don't seem to be getting any safer....

Realtine

I came to Dublin over 20 years ago up from the country as a young wan and loved it, every inch of it , never wanted to move away, ever. Fell in love, married and had kids and still live in a working class area of the city, but increasingly in the last couple of years I find myself wanting to move away.

Dublin has become all that I hate about city living, it's dangerous, many young people (not all) have no respect of people, lives, property. Drink and drug crime is everywhere or sometimes just petty boredom give people the excuse to do what they want knowing they will get away with it. Half the crime that occurs isn't even reported as people know nothing is done about it.
I feel the gardai get frustrated so they don't bother either. Local authorities can't or won't do much about anti-social behaviour in housing estates - they say it's for the gardai to deal with offenders.

I fear for my kids (late teens) going out into town or even local, (my son was punched in the head recently because some stranger wanted his beanie hat) - no drink involved on his part.

If it were possible I'd emigrate away from this country right now, (it's not possible to do so - so no smart comments). But then again is it any better anywhere else? Although I will move away to the west coast in the future, at least that 's the dream.

Is there an answer? No idea, parenting has a lot to do with how these young people are raised - but they are being raised by people who don't know anything about basic respect and decency and they in turn will produce offspring who are also the very same.

I think the punishment should fit the crime but increasingly there is no punishment at all. There is no fear of the law anymore and even a jail sentence is seen as a right of passage for many of these young and not so young offenders.

Ziggurat

Mark200 wrote: »

A zero-tolerance policy could mean that innocent, generally good, people will get caught by this policy and possibly face a criminal record for just being in the general area of trouble

Absolutely, this "zero-tolerance" policy sounds like a nightmare in terms of accountability.

It may be difficult for the Gardaí to do their job but...shouldn't it be? Shouldn't they have to work their arses off to bring a case to ensure innocent people aren't wrongly convicted?

TripleAce

Reinstate Mussolini

Run_to_da_hills

Reduce the off licence closing times to 9.00PM = less scumbags to deal with on the streets :pac::pac::pac:

_blank_

All of the junkies should be rounded up and stuck out on Ireland's Eye, either let them die, kill each other, or go through cold turkey for a month and get off the gear.

When the ones who survive arrive back, start them on a program whereby if they go back on the gear, they are immediately shipped back out. Chip them if necessary.

Do the same for Coke-heads.

After six months of this program, we'd be rid of junkies, and also have removed the market in which the scumbag dealers sell to.

Remove the customers, remove the saleability of the drugs, remove the criminals who sell the drugs.

not yet

Lambsbread wrote: »

I suppose. But that's why a good kicking would do the trick

With the 1000s of little scumbag c*nts out there you would be here till next year kicking the little fu*kers stupid.

This country needs serious politicans who will do whats needed, I'd also kick fu*k out of the parents of these scum.

Wagon

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Reduce the off licence closing times to 9.00PM = less scumbags to deal with on the streets :pac::pac::pac:

Yes. Because all the regulations have worked so far. Unbelievable :mad: I'm getting sick of your posts.

Turd Ferguson

Have a Scooter play a free concert in the Phoenix Park and when all the scummers come to watch it just drop the big Monty Python foot from the sky and squish them all.

Zangetsu

"you either get a good hiding from the Garda,"

I hope that was a joke, they are liberal enough with the ****in nightsticks without giving the power to give you a smack whenever they see fit.

Silly silly OP...

marcsignal

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

Have a Scooter play a free concert in the Phoenix Park and when all the scummers come to watch it just drop the big Monty Python foot from the sky and squish them all.

or have the gig here

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/23565/48744.JPG

the charge for the tickets should cover the gas bill

Auvers

Des wrote: »

All of the junkies should be rounded up and stuck out on Ireland's Eye, either let them die, kill each other, or go through cold turkey for a month and get off the gear.

indeed and televise it for a bit of Battle Royale

Lambsbread

Zangetsu wrote: »

"you either get a good hiding from the Garda,"

I hope that was a joke, they are liberal enough with the ****in nightsticks without giving the power to give you a smack whenever they see fit.

Silly silly OP...

Not saying I would agree with that. Just trying to provoke a little debate.

You have 15 year old kids knowing they get away with what they want ("You can't touch me"). Maybe a bit of nightstick would help them undertand.

Zangetsu

So your talkin sh!te then, glad we cleared that up

oztots

I'd have to say i agree, half of what they do is because they know there will be nothing done to them. Alot of them attack young groups or people by themselves because they know they are less likely to fight back and the gards wont touch them.
If the guards were let give them a few belts they wouldnt be half as eager to start fights.

COH

I don't think the responsibility for dealing out cans of whup-ass should be on the gardai. Instead, when this sh*t happens, like someone getting punched in the head for no reason, it would be nice if literally all the regular people instead of standing around in shock all just jumped on the fecker and made him regret being such a burden on society. It can't be that hard for twenty people to beat up a 15 year old! Scumbags will always be in the minority, so we have the numbers on our side. So lets just dish out the pain ourselves!

Viva la anti-scrote revolution!

ScumLord

Bring back hard labour. Put kids or young adults that prick about into work gangs cleaning and repairing things or send them to the armed forces. They need to be shown there's more to life and need to learn disciple and respect. Get them early and fix them for life. I think the state is just as much to blame for allowing this problem to escalate, people aren't born bad their turned that way.

marcsignal

Zangetsu wrote: »

"you either get a good hiding from the Garda,"

I hope that was a joke, they are liberal enough with the ****in nightsticks without giving the power to give you a smack whenever they see fit.

Silly silly OP...

'most' people who end up getting a slap of a nightstick very probably deserve it. the scum we're talking about here that run riot in dublin, should count their lucky stars they're not up against the french or german police, because they'd all be missing their front teeth and sporting broken noses, at the very least.

Having said that, i agree, it's not the ideal solution for every case, public humiliation for example, by putting them in the stocks, naked, on o connell street, where the good people of dublin could pelt them with everything from rotten fruit to used sanitary towels would also suffice....

oztots

I've seen both german and irish police deal with scum and fights, and to be honest i prefer the german way. Theres alot less fights here in hamburg despite the place being full of different nationalities that hate each other, plus drink drugs and the club district where theres over 100 clubs and bars.

The irish prefer the "we'll wait till they get tired" approach which results in at least somebody getting badly hurt.
The germans prefer a more batons out and take the legs off everybody, all in the paddy wagon, and a few more whacks for anybody still mouthing off.

Its the general idea that as long as what you do is within the law, your fine, step outside theres punishment. Isn't that what laws were supposed to be for?

i71jskz5xu42pb

Lambsbread wrote: »

However, i do want to try and provoke some reasonable debate.

That's why you posted it in AH??? Are you new here?

The majority of the "reasonable debate" you get in AH comes from intellectual luminaries such as this guy ...

Des wrote: »

All of the junkies should be rounded up and stuck out on Ireland's Eye, either let them die, kill each other, or go through cold turkey for a month

marcsignal

Kyree Acidic Coral wrote: »

That's why you posted it in AH??? Are you new here?

The majority of the "reasonable debate" you get in AH comes from intellectual luminaries such as this guy ...

where's the problem ?? if irelands eye wasn't such a tourist attraction i'd have been all for des's idea.

This island would be a much better idea by far http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/1457035.stm
but unfortunately it's outside irish territorial waters

Zangetsu

I've lost my faith in humanity... Fair enough, beatings all round! Lets start with the kids, 15yo scum ya's were talkin about. Nothin like kickin the **** out of kids ey? Corporal punishment back in schools please!

Next we beat the kids parents for standing up for thier kids (I know I'd end up in prison if a gaurd hit my kid). Sterilise inner city dublin, stop the problem from happeneing in the first place, great idea!!

Health care for over 70's? bah too much money, euthanasia for everyone that hits 60. Save everyone the hassel.

Never thought I'd say this but our government seem to have more sence then some people in AH... Jaysus...

Terry

I'm all for the cops being allowed to kick the crap out of scumbags.

The way I see it is if you are not breaking the law, then you have nothing to fear.

marcsignal

Zangetsu wrote: »

I've lost my faith in humanity... Fair enough, beatings all round! Lets start with the kids, 15yo scum ya's were talkin about. Nothin like kickin the **** out of kids ey? Corporal punishment back in schools please!

well i suppose we could just continue dealing with the situation the way we are presently, I mean it's working sooooo well.

Or you could check some of the comments made by punished teenagers on this website

http://www.corpun.com/ioju6507.htm

Pighead

Terry wrote: »

I'm all for the cops being allowed to kick the crap out of scumbags.

The way I see it is if you are not breaking the law, then you have nothing to fear.

But what about if the cops get all slap happy and kick the crap out of an innocent person. They make wrongful arrests all the time. It's bad enough getting thrown into a slammer for no reason without getting a hiding on top of that.

kirving

Anyone caught drinking on the Liffey Boardwalk should be thrown into the river. It cost too much money only for scumbags to use it to drink on

EamonnKeane

Zero tolerance just means that the guards will go after easy-to-detect crimes even more than they already do. They should be after smugglers and rapists, not speeders and public order crap.

oztots

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Zero tolerance just means that the guards will go after easy-to-detect crimes even more than they already do. They should be after smugglers and rapists, not speeders and public order crap.

I'm fairly sure i wont be smuggled or raped any time soon, but theres a far higher chance of getting mugged or bet on the way home. We all know who they are, and we've all seen them, nothing has ever given them a reason to fear the police.

They wouldnt be beating the crap out of speeders, but i think if some cnut hurts somebody out of badness or just for having nothing to do, they should be hurt back. As it is the guards cant do anything.

Terry

Pighead wrote: »

But what about if the cops get all slap happy and kick the crap out of an innocent person. They make wrongful arrests all the time. It's bad enough getting thrown into a slammer for no reason without getting a hiding on top of that.

Worth the risk.
Think of it this way; scumbags fear getting a kicking, so that leads to less crime.
A few innocents get hurt along the way, but that happens anyway.
You should have seen the amount of innocent people I met in the holding cells a few months back. Shocking stuff.

Also, marcsignal sucks at embedding.

marcsignal

Terry wrote: »

Also, marcsignal sucks at embedding.

not with a nightstick i dont...

Pighead

Terry wrote: »

Worth the risk.
Think of it this way; scumbags fear getting a kicking, so that leads to less crime.
A few innocents get hurt along the way, but that happens anyway.
You should have seen the amount of innocent people I met in the holding cells a few months back. Shocking stuff.

Also, marcsignal sucks at embedding.

Yeah but the guards will generally go for the easy option. Just like back in 2001 when a young happy go lucky Pighead was arrested for singing on O'Connell St. And it wasn't even bad singing, it was bloody great singing. Around the corner, three rough and aggressive young men were injecting heroin with one arm, beating up women with the other and stomping on puppy dogs heads with their feet.

The singer gets arrested and is forced to strip down to his Y-Fronts in a cold dank cell, whilst the aggressive men are free to wander off into teh night with the blood stains of women and puppy dogs still fresh on their shirts and shoes.

the_syco

To operate a zero-tolerance policy, we'd need more jails, and menial work in said jails for the scum to do.

marcsignal

Pighead wrote: »

Yeah but the guards will generally go for the easy option. Just like back in 2001 when a young happy go lucky Pighead was arrested for singing on O'Connell St. And it wasn't even bad singing, it was bloody great singing.

what were you singing Pighead ? 'Fuck da Police' by NWA ?:D

Helix

Des wrote: »

After six months of this program, we'd be rid of junkies, and also have removed the market in which the scumbag dealers sell to.

Remove the customers, remove the saleability of the drugs, remove the criminals who sell the drugs.

except the vast vast majority of drug users arent junkies or scumbags, so the market will still be there

Pighead

marcsignal wrote: »

what were you singing Pighead ? 'Fuck da Police' by NWA ?:D

Was singing a famous old Ballad that went by the name of "I just want to dance with you". Was just coming up to the verse that goes

"I want to dance with you, twirl you all around the floor
That’s what they intended dancin’ for,
I just want to dance with you. "

when all of a sudden the long arm of the law grabbed Pighead by the shoulder.
Guard: "Is that Daniel O'Donnell you're singing there son?"
Pighead: "Fcuk no, Wouldn't be caught dead singing that creeps songs. Pighead was singing the original version by American country music singer George Strait.
Guard: "Bollox you were, Straits version is way more rockier than the insipid version you were spouting out. It had O'Donnell written all over it. You're nicked son.

Turns out the Guard had never even heard of Strait and was just bull****ting so as to avoid tackling the scumbags and bag himself an easy arrest. Terrible form.

Helix

COH wrote: »

I don't think the responsibility for dealing out cans of whup-ass should be on the gardai. Instead, when this sh*t happens, like someone getting punched in the head for no reason, it would be nice if literally all the regular people instead of standing around in shock all just jumped on the fecker and made him regret being such a burden on society. It can't be that hard for twenty people to beat up a 15 year old! Scumbags will always be in the minority, so we have the numbers on our side. So lets just dish out the pain ourselves!

Viva la anti-scrote revolution!

i all for that

problem is the 15-20 people will end up in court while the scumbag gets away with it coz hes a scumbag

Helix

Terry wrote: »

I'm all for the cops being allowed to kick the crap out of scumbags.

The way I see it is if you are not breaking the law, then you have nothing to fear.

as am i, but theyd need to be held accountable with a massive punishment over their heads if they so much as tapped someone innocent. something like jail time

marcsignal

there's a co-incidence, i heard a group of off duty guards singing a similar song in Rody Bolands one night, but it went:

"I want to dance on you, kick you all around the floor
That’s what they intended doc martens for,
I just want to dance on you. "

female guards too

oztots

Helix wrote: »

as am i, but theyd need to be held accountable with a massive punishment over their heads if they so much as tapped someone innocent. something like jail time

Now that would ruin the fun then wouldnt it? And sure every bit of scum would be shouting "I did no'hin, i whas jus wearing me hoodie goin ta baseball pratis"

Mint Sauce

Helix wrote: »

except the vast vast majority of drug users arent junkies or scumbags, so the market will still be there

but if all the junkies are drying out some where, and no one to buy the drugs, there is no market

oh yeah, the the guards should be able to use their night stick, they use it over most of the continent

Helix

irish-stew wrote: »

but if all the junkies are drying out some where, and no one to buy the drugs, there is no market

but junkies are the minority of drug users

get rid of them and therell still be loads of people to buy drugs

marcsignal

irish-stew wrote: »

oh yeah, the the guards should be able to use their night stick, they use it over most of the continent

they certainly do in Germany anyway, and if you're very bold they send in the Black Sherrifs who are a bit like the civil powers answer to GSG9.

gotta hand it to the krauts, even the sight of those uniforms would induce farty sounds from any rioter:eek:

the_syco

marcsignal wrote: »

they certainly do in Germany anyway, and if you're very bold they send in the Black Sherrifs who are a bit like the civil powers answer to GSG9.

gotta hand it to the krauts, even the sight of those uniforms would induce farty sounds from any rioter:eek:

Reminds me of HL2 holloween costumes.