Opinions on pre-nups

teaholic · 18-10-2008 4:28pm #1

I was just wondering if I am being unreasonable on this topic. Myself (22) and my boyfriend (26) are going out just over two years and we are living together since March.

The topic of marraige and kids has come up and that much of the conversation is fine. But then he said that he wouldnt get married without a pre-nup! He does own a house but he had that before he knew me.

If he takes me at my word that I love him why wont he take it that I'm not going to take him for everything hes got.

But my main objection to it is this, I feel that pre-nups are a get-out clause. Its like hes looking for a way out of our relationship before we commit for the rest of our lives.

I said I would compromise by signing for 7 years but he is adamant that it will be for life.

Am I being unreasonable?

Marksie · 18-10-2008 4:45pm

Prenups are very popular with a lot of people. It may not necessarily be a "get out clause" but an agreement that everything will be divided a certain way. In case the unfortunate happened.

I am not sure they are legally binding here though.

You should perhaps discuss this some more with your boyfriend

teaholic · 18-10-2008 4:50pm

oh we will be discussing it more, we are not even engaged yet, but it has come up. I was just trying to figure out if i am being unreasonable or not by completly saying no.

chessman · 18-10-2008 4:54pm

love is unconditional,or should be,if he is looking to cover his ass he doesnt trust you.DUMP HIM NOW

Pub07 · 18-10-2008 4:54pm

teaholic wrote: »

I was just wondering if I am being unreasonable on this topic. Myself (22) and my boyfriend (26) are going out just over two years and we are living together since March.

The topic of marraige and kids has come up and that much of the conversation is fine. But then he said that he wouldnt get married without a pre-nup! He does own a house but he had that before he knew me.

If he takes me at my word that I love him why wont he take it that I'm not going to take him for everything hes got.

But my main objection to it is this, I feel that pre-nups are a get-out clause. Its like hes looking for a way out of our relationship before we commit for the rest of our lives.

I said I would compromise by signing for 7 years but he is adamant that it will be for life.

Am I being unreasonable?

I don't ever see myself getting married in the first place but I can understand where's your boyfriends coming from. If you look at the amount of relationships/marriages that break down you have to come to the conclusion that of course it is possible that your's could break down too. Why would he want to risk having to give away half the value of his house in the event of a situation that has more than a remote possibility of happening?

Sure you can say you 'won't take him for everything he's got', I'm sure lots of women (not being sexist but it is generally women going after a guys assests) have said/thought that in the past, and alot of them probably meant it at the time, but when the relationships breaks down and they hate their ex they can have no problems changing their mind and going after his money.

MagicMarker · 18-10-2008 4:55pm

Yeah I don't think there's any such thing as a prenup here.

But personally, if i had a house paid for by me then i don't care who you are, i am going to retain it for myself should the worst happen. Signing a marriage licence these days is practically giving away half of everything you own.

He's entitled to protect himself, sorry to say but you do not know if your marriage will last and he doesn't know either.

Why are you so against it? If you loved him you'd understand his point of view on the situation.

Why not offer to split his mortgage in half? Of course you'd have to come up with half of whatever deposit he paid. But methinks you're unlikely to offer up so much cash, so why should he practically give you half of his house?

cHaTbOx · 18-10-2008 4:58pm

Are you being unreasonable?No
Is he being unreasonable?No

Two ways to look at this

1/ If you are going to marry him ,will it matter if there is a document saying you cannot take half his property.Why would you deserve a chance at half of his property after seven years?

2/Why would he go into a marriage needing a pre-nup?The whole point of marriage is unconditional love,commitment and trust to another person

Unfortunately both sides seem valid arguements ,but I think the time will come when you are ready for marriage when it will not matter whether you have to sign it and he will not care if you do .

teaholic · 18-10-2008 5:09pm

I would have no problem in paying for half the mortage but Im still in college and he knows this, and i will be for another 2 years.

But its not about the house, the house is his, the dog is his and the car is his. But if he does trust me that i love him why cant he trust me at my word that i wont take what isnt mine.

earlyevening · 18-10-2008 5:13pm

Pre nups mean nothing to an Irish court so don't worry about it.

Lollipops23 · 18-10-2008 5:20pm

im actually a fan of per nups,as long as niether party is being ridiculous in their requests.Since he bought the house before he knew you it would probably be completely safe,if that's the only thing he's worried about!
In this day in age i can totally see the point of prenups-i'd much rather have one and not need it than need it and not have it!

con71 · 18-10-2008 5:20pm

Previous poster is correct, there is no such thing as a pre-nup here.

teaholic · 18-10-2008 5:25pm

Its not that I am worried about it, its that he feels that he needs it.

MagicMarker · 18-10-2008 5:35pm

teaholic wrote: »

Its not that I am worried about it, its that he feels that he needs it.

I think you're thinking way to much into it. If this is the only problem you've got then you're doing well as it is.

Overheal · 18-10-2008 5:40pm

My take: If you love eachother, then god forbid if a divorce happens you don't want to spend 6 months going in and out of court, dealing with solicitors, spending thousands of euros trying to settle something that could have been remedied before you ever got married with a simple pre-nup. Divorce settlements are a huge breadwinner for legal professionals, and its really quite disgusting.

teaholic · 18-10-2008 5:41pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

I think you're thinking way to much into it. If this is the only problem you've got then you're doing well as it is.

you have a point, i guess i am thinking about it too much, we could have worse problems.

brianthebard · 18-10-2008 5:45pm

If ye love each other and stay together then its a pretty meaningless document isn't it? Personally I think its a good idea, and if you feel that if ye got married it would be forever, then sign the pre nup as proof of how unbothered you are by the idea of ye splitting up, as a way of showing you know it won't happen.
I don't know his personal reason for having a pre nup, but if it puts his mind at ease when/if ye get married that's a good thing too isn't it?

teaholic · 18-10-2008 5:47pm

Overheal wrote: »

My take: If you love eachother, then god forbid if a divorce happens you don't want to spend 6 months going in and out of court, dealing with solicitors, spending thousands of euros trying to settle something that could have been remedied before you ever got married with a simple pre-nup. Divorce settlements are a huge breadwinner for legal professionals, and its really quite disgusting.

The house is his, he worked for it, I dont want it.

Jack B. Badd · 18-10-2008 5:48pm

teaholic wrote: »

But if he does trust me that i love him why cant he trust me at my word that i wont take what isnt mine.

OP, you may feel this way now but people (and circumstances) change. My guess is that you've changed a considerable amount in the past 2 decades. You're more than likely going to change a considerable amount in the next 2.. and the 2 after that. Just because you feel a particular way now doesn't mean that you will at some point down the line if your marriage fell apart.
The fact that I know I'm going to change a hell of a lot over my life is one of the main reasons I don't want to enter into marriage - how the hell am I supposed to know that what I want in my twenties is what I'm going to want in my sixties - that's whole other situation though. I can, however, totally understand where your OH is coming from. I'm sure he's not planning on using it but a pre-nup is like insurance, you take it out hoping that you never have to use it.

teaholic · 18-10-2008 5:57pm

"OP, you may feel this way now but people (and circumstances) change. My guess is that you've changed a considerable amount in the past 2 decades. You're more than likely going to change a considerable amount in the next 2.. and the 2 after that. Just because you feel a particular way now doesn't mean that you will at some point down the line if your marriage fell apart."

there really are two sides i guess, and you have a good point for it. Im just wondering on opinions on the situation.

Overheal · 18-10-2008 6:09pm

teaholic wrote: »

The house is his, he worked for it, I dont want it.

aye. you can just write up a prenup to disclude anything you each had from before the marriage. and if a divorce should happen you only have to arbitrate whatever happened during the marriage.

Which, by the way, congratulations and I hope its never needed

teaholic · 18-10-2008 6:12pm

oh its only been talked about, wer not engaged (yet) i said that somewhere near the beginning of the thread.
he just said that he wants one

Overheal · 18-10-2008 6:16pm

I guess its better to get it out of the way now before he gets down on one knee, asks you to marry him... you say yes. Angels cry, and then suddenly "great, I just need you to sign here"

teaholic · 18-10-2008 6:20pm

Overheal wrote: »

I guess its better to get it out of the way now before he gets down on one knee, asks you to marry him... you say yes. Angels cry, and then suddenly "great, I just need you to sign here"

lol ya you have a very good point there!!!

:D I guess it like what magic marker said, im reading too much into it

She Devil · 18-10-2008 6:27pm

If you have no problem not taking what is his, then why not sign a wee contract?
It isnt disrespectful for him to ask you to do this, it is practical and sensible. My boyfriend and i have discussed this also and i am adamant more than him that i want something drawn up before we get married. We know we are for life, so we know it is probably a waste of money, but god forbid anything did happen well then we are covered ........

Zascar · 18-10-2008 6:30pm

Almost every single woman has the potential to turn into a complete Psycho if it all goes gorribly wrong. I would not take the risk, i'll want a pre-nup no matter what.

CathyMoran · 18-10-2008 6:38pm

I would have felt very hurt if my husband had suggested a prenup - the way that I look at it marriage is for life. I can see where your bf is coming from but in the end of the day he should trust you.

She Devil · 18-10-2008 6:40pm

well thats a bit sexist Zascar, my ex boyfriend tried to get half a site my dad gave me for us to build a home on it for my 21st!! You can't generalise like that ........

metrovelvet · 18-10-2008 6:57pm

I think this is a good opportunity for you in a way. Detail your conditions in it.

I know mine would be "if you hit me or cheat on me you will eating tinned tuna for the rest of your life."

If we divorce and have children..... you could get very detailed here. If he can make conditions, so can you.

MagicMarker · 18-10-2008 7:15pm

CathyMoran wrote: »

I would have felt very hurt if my husband had suggested a prenup - the way that I look at it marriage is for life. I can see where your bf is coming from but in the end of the day he should trust you.

That's a very naive and idealistic way of looking at things. This isn't a matter of trust, it's about protecting what's yours, like someone else mentioned, it's insurance you hope you never have to use.

No one can see into the future and as much as you or any other person would like to think, it doesn't always end up peachy, love and marriage doesn't always last forever, to ignore that is just stupid.

metrovelvet · 18-10-2008 7:18pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

That's a very naive and idealistic way of looking at things. This isn't a matter of trust, it's about protecting what's yours, like someone else mentioned, it's insurance you hope you never have to use.

No one can see into the future and as much as you or any other person would like to think, it doesn't always end up peachy, love and marriage doesn't always last forever, to ignore that is just stupid.

If you dont go into it share and share alike, then you should not be getting married. Dont get married. Its simple.

MagicMarker · 18-10-2008 7:20pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

If you dont go into it share and share alike, then you should not be getting married. Dont get married. Its simple.

I'd have no problem sharing, but if me and a partner broke up i don't see why i should continue sharing MY stuff.

metrovelvet · 18-10-2008 7:27pm

Fair enough. But wealth and property accumulated during the marriage is not just your stuff. Its both of your stuff.

MagicMarker · 18-10-2008 7:29pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Fair enough. But wealth and property accumulated during the marriage is not just your stuff. Its both of your stuff.

Yeah, i realise that. We're talking about a PRE-nup.

MJOR · 18-10-2008 7:29pm

Pre nups don't mean diddly squat in this country and likewise you would not be automatically entitled to half if you guys married and split unless you name is on the house as well. However if you had a family it would be different. Really it was maybe a little insensitive for him to bring it up. I would be of the opinion that all that matters is that you are happy and together. But I suppose its something that he had given some thought to.

Jack B. Badd · 18-10-2008 8:13pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Fair enough. But wealth and property accumulated during the marriage is not just your stuff. Its both of your stuff.

Wealth and property accumulated during a marriage are not affected by a pre-nup agreement. Null and void in this country anyway though I find it a bit odd that you can't have a civil union without legally applying pre-agreed conditions to the contract.

coco85 · 18-10-2008 10:46pm

My partner and i are together 5 years.. no talks of immediate marriage or anything but he said he wants a pre-nup when we do get married.

Now he owns his own house and comes from a (very) wealthy backround so i can understand where he is coming from... so our take on it is that whatever each individual brings into their marriage is their own and any inheritance one receives belongs to the indiviual and not the OH...unless they want to be generous!...

Its not an issue of trust.. everyone trusts the person they marry but things can happen in relationships after marriage that result in women/men wanting to 'take their partners to the cleaners!'

I wouldn't take it as a personal thing just common sense with such a high divorce rate these days.

Whether a pre-nup is legal or not i don't know but if it keeps your OH happy then why not.. as far as i know even if you seperated he would be entitled to his house as he owned it before he met you unless once you finish college you buy half from him.. do not presume (like some women) that by marrying him you are automatically entitled to half of everything!

gedas · 19-10-2008 12:17am

WTF is wrong with you people?????!!!!!!!?????

Do you get married knowing that you will get divorced?????Why do you bother, for Christ's sake???????

MagicMarker · 19-10-2008 12:18am

gedas wrote: »

WTF is wrong with you people?????!!!!!!!?????

Do you get married knowing that you will get divorced?????Why do you bother, for Christ's sake???????

Who knows????????????!!!??!!?!?!

Carrigart Exile · 19-10-2008 7:39am

teaholic wrote: »

I was just wondering if I am being unreasonable on this topic. Myself (22) and my boyfriend (26) are going out just over two years and we are living together since March.

The topic of marraige and kids has come up and that much of the conversation is fine. But then he said that he wouldnt get married without a pre-nup! He does own a house but he had that before he knew me.

If he takes me at my word that I love him why wont he take it that I'm not going to take him for everything hes got.

But my main objection to it is this, I feel that pre-nups are a get-out clause. Its like hes looking for a way out of our relationship before we commit for the rest of our lives.

I said I would compromise by signing for 7 years but he is adamant that it will be for life.

Am I being unreasonable?

Divorce laws have made marraige financial suicide for anyone with assets.

Carrigart Exile · 19-10-2008 7:40am

chessman wrote: »

love is unconditional,or should be,if he is looking to cover his ass he doesnt trust you.DUMP HIM NOW

sorry but this is nonsense.

Carrigart Exile · 19-10-2008 7:44am

teaholic wrote: »

The house is his, he worked for it, I dont want it.

If you do split up, you'll probably find your friends will goad you in to going after it.

Carrigart Exile · 19-10-2008 7:45am

gedas wrote: »

WTF is wrong with you people?????!!!!!!!?????

Do you get married knowing that you will get divorced?????Why do you bother, for Christ's sake???????

No, but why should the person with the assets pay the highest penalty for a mistake

jhegarty · 19-10-2008 7:52am

most of you don't seem to be getting it , there is no such thing a pre-nup in ireland.... they don't exist.... no such thing...

you may as well be making a post about a honeymoon on mars.....

Carrigart Exile · 19-10-2008 8:52am

jhegarty wrote: »

most of you don't seem to be getting it , there is no such thing a pre-nup in ireland.... they don't exist.... no such thing...

you may as well be making a post about a honeymoon on mars.....

they have no legal standing but are being taken more and more into consideration by the courts particularly as an agreed schedule of personal assets before marraige

luckat · 19-10-2008 9:06am

Why bother getting married unless you trust the person you're marrying? Marriage is like throwing yourself into someone's arms and trusting that they'll catch you and hold you and keep you in their heart and their affection for as long as you both live.

MagicMarker · 19-10-2008 9:11am

luckat wrote: »

Why bother getting married unless you trust the person you're marrying? Marriage is like throwing yourself into someone's arms and trusting that they'll catch you and hold you and keep you in their heart and their affection for as long as you both live.

Isn't that lovely!

Again, this has NOTHING to do with trust.

2 out of 3 marriages fail, it's a simple fact. Deal with it.

dotsman · 19-10-2008 12:56pm

Pre-nups should be compulsory. In doing that, then there's nothing unromantic about them, as everyone would have to do one. By having a pre-nup, there's less chances of a messy breakup. Both sides can agree in advance of financial distribution, and more importantly, how any children will be dealt with.

OP, there is nothing unreasonable about your boyfriend's wishes. I think the fact that you suggested 7 years only goes to confirm it. It's as if you are saying that after 7 years of marriage, you feel you will be deserving of his assets.

Personally, I'll be getting married abroad unless the Irish courts get realistic. It's nothing to do with trusting the girl. It's to do with trusting th facts. A lot of marriages break down. The odd one might have been predictable at the time of the marriage - but most weren't.

19-10-2008 1:11pm

I don't get why anyone would be hurt by the idea that their loved one might want a prenup.
Surely if you care about someone, then knowing that their rights are protected in every circumstance. Is a good thing.

tinkerbell · 19-10-2008 3:55pm

I'm all for pre-nups however they mean nothing in Irish law. You might as well just write it down on a piece of paper yourself and show it to the judge in the divorce court coz that's probably all it'd be treated as!

Now if pre-nups did have a legal standing here then it would be great. I don't think it's unromantic - I actually think it is romantic. Say A has a house, B has nothing, they get married and B signs pre-nup that they won't look for half of the house, it means that B is telling A they wouldn't try to screw them out of something that wasn't originally theirs if they got divorced.

Time and time again you see people (usually men) who have a house / assets / whatever, then they get married, a year later new wife divorces them and gets half of everything or sometimes even more. It's an absolute joke and completely unfair. I've seen it happen quite a bit.

It's not about trust, it's about protecting your assets - you don't know what will happen in a few years and if divorce did happen, you could be left worse off than when you entered the marriage.

Phlann · 19-10-2008 8:14pm

teaholic wrote: »

If he takes me at my word that I love him why wont he take it that I'm not going to take him for everything hes got.

Because things change? Sometimes things turn nasty? Because he's realistic enough to know this?

You wouldn't be the first couple to go into a situation like this with the best of intentions and come out of it hating each other.

But it's a moot point since, as others have pointed out, they mean nothing here.

Overheal · 19-10-2008 8:33pm

There are hundreds of scenarios in which a divorce comes about for reasons other than trust.

* Lack of commitment to the marriage
* Lack of communication between spouses
* Infidelity
* Abandonment
* Alcohol Addiction
* Substance Abuse
* Physical Abuse
* Sexual Abuse
* Emotional Abuse
* Inability to manage or resolve conflict
* Personality Differences or ‘irreconcilable differences’
* Differences in personal and career goals
* Financial problems
* Different expectations about household tasks
* Different expectations about having or rearing children
* Interference from parents or in-laws
* Lack of maturity
* Intellectual Incompatibility
* Sexual Incompatibility
* Insistence of sticking to traditional roles and not allowing room for personal growth
* Falling out of love
* Religious conversion or religious beliefs
* Cultural and lifestyle differences
* Inability to deal with each other’s petty idiosyncrasies
* Mental Instability or Mental Illness
* Criminal behavior and incarceration for crime

Many of those issues are nothing to do with trust and for worse or better they just have a chance happening. And as Carrigart says, should a divorce situation happen, you will find yourself (guaranteed) in a much different emotional and mental state - both of you. Later on you may well decide or be vulnerable to the suggestion that taking your other half to the cleaners is the greatest choice in the world. At that point you both lock heads in a protracted legal battle that can sometimes go on for weeks, months or even years. Knowing this, I would certainly give some condideration to pre-nuptual agreement myself.

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