MASSIVE NOOB ALERT - YOU'VE BEEN WARNED

RugbyFanatic

O.K so I still have to get motorbike lessons and have pretty much taught myself how to drive one so I'm about 2 months in and still pretty clueless so I have a few questions.

When stopping do you always put it into neutral then kick it into first when the light goes green or do you leave it in first or second or whatever and hold the clutch?

when starting do you kick it straight from neutral into second or do you go from neutral to first then quickly to second? because I never see the point of going into first when you can simply go into second but am afraid it might damage my engine??

Overtaking wise am I allowed to overtake slightly in the other lane Like just over the boundary or do I have to overtake within my lane? can I overtake on the left at all?

In wet weather I should use front brake mostly?

thanks

RugbyFanatic

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Overtaking wise am I allowed to overtake slightly in the other lane Like just over the boundary or do I have to overtake within my lane? can I overtake on the left at all?

In wet weather I should use front brake mostly?

thanks

Not being a smart ass here, but read the rules of the road.
As far as braking goes, use both brakes at the same time. Just apply more force to the front.

cantdecide

I'm not trying to be a smartarse but you sound as if you should make the lessons a priority, bud. They WILL save your ass. Try biker.ie and irishbikerforum, too. Great resources

Wet weather conditions are 50:50, dry conditions are 70:30 to the front.

Gear down and leave it in first at lights. You should really only use neutral at the beginning and end of trips. I'm not sure why you snub first. I've never felt the need to skip it??

If you're self taught so far, you need to check out countersteering http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzB5oriblk

KTRIC

I'm self thought , never had a lesson in my life. But i paid the price, heavily. I nearly lost my leg on my first bike. Eight years on I have a nice bikers limp when it gets cold.


OP, get some f*cking lessons, from a pro before you get back on the bike.

Idleater

cantdecide wrote: »

Wet weather conditions are 50:50, dry conditions are 70:30 to the front.

Wet weather 99-100% front.
Dry conditions 100% front.

For braking the only thing to remember is to ALWAYS break in a straight line. You should have all your braking done before entering the corner and you should be using positive throttle in the bend.

Slightly too quick into a corner, turn more and the slightest touch on the back brake will bring it into line.

OP. I'd suggest a few lessons and then when you are slightly more comfortable on the bike you will figure out the above.

Limerick Bandit

I'm self thought , never had a lesson in my life. But i paid the price, heavily. I nearly lost my leg on my first bike. Eight years on I have a nice bikers limp when it gets cold.


OP, get some f*cking lessons, from a pro before you get back on the bike.

In 8 years you could be telling this story

Get some lessons


I still have all my arms and legs but it is that important you know what your doing

cantdecide

nereid wrote: »

Wet weather 99-100% front.
Dry conditions 100% front

That's not what the experts say and it's not what the experts teach...

galwaytt

cantdecide wrote: »

Gear down and leave it in first at lights. You should really only use neutral at the beginning and end of trips.

Not what my RoSPA guy told me, nor according to the Institute of Advanced Motorists (I'm a member), and not, iirc, according to Motorcycle Roadcraft, the police book

That's how the foot-tapping sequence "The Hendon Two-Step" got it's name -from the Police training school in Hendon. It describes the protocol from going from neutral to pulling away at Junctions, etc.

cantdecide

This stuff gets revised and updated all the time in line with the latest findings and newest ideas as I'm sure you know and I'm a recent learner and recent test passee and it's all still fresh in my mind. After getting my grade 2, I went to town on getting the test passed asap so I ate the rules of the road books and took lessons from a Rospa trainer.

In the test, I was asked specifically about braking and also about the gear at lights and the the answer that got the test passed for me was that you leave it in first.

I don't know what the two step thingy is... do tell

Wossack

/edit Sorry, after re-reading your post, you say youre a recent test-passer CantDecide, so you probably know all this, as I believe coverage of the rear brake when stopped is a test requirement - the Hendon Shuffle is just a method of droppin out of gear while maxmising rear brake coverage

--



Stop with the rear brake applied. While holding the front brake, drop your right foot, snick it into neutral (left foot up, and back down), right foot back on rear brake, front brake released.

Getting ready to pull away, front brake pulled in, right foot down (off the brake), into first, right foot back up onto brake, front released.

I dont mind holding in the clutch at lights, so Im on the rear brake at lights all the time - no shuffle from me. Not sure if theres any safety implications from that, just the possible added wear of the clutch over time (and a massive left forearm).

Taught the rear brake at lights thing, as if you're rear-ended, the front will probably go airbourne slightly, and so the front brake would be useless.

Idleater

cantdecide wrote: »

That's not what the experts say and it's not what the experts teach...

I don't want to get into this, but you are so wrong, on both counts.

In fact, in theory, you should be able to drive without using the brakes at all (most definitely on the motorway).

Leaving sufficient room in front of you and using good vision.

_That_ is what I was taught for my RoSPA, which I successfully renewed this year.

Found this interesting link about braking: http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/

Go to mondello too, and see how far into the gravel 70% front brake gets you too.

I also, didn't advocate that the OP should use 99-100% front brake whilst learning, but given that none of us know what (s)he is riding we can't comment either way. I merely thought it helpful to add that braking and use of the brakes is entirely bike and rider dependent, so there is no generic catch all answer.

RosieJoe

I think the different opinions shown here just highlights the need for the OP to get proper lessons.

We all can come here and give different pointers and different opinions and this just ends up confusing the issue.

From my own experience I was taught to use 60-40 split on the brakes and 50-50 in the wet. This was based on beginners lessons. I was also advised to go into neutral when waiting at lights, but I don't do this all the time, just depends on the situation.

On the RoSPA you have been shown different techniques, maybe to do with your own abilities and what advanced lessons show you.

Regardless of our own abilities, the OP needs to get the training to become a more confident rider and to get a base view of how to ride. From there they can adjust to suit themselves and then progress to getting more training, if they want, in the future.

Quint

I hardly ever use back brakes. Sure look at your brake disks (of a big bike anyway), the back ones are tiny with a one pot caliper, meaning then do piss all compared with 2 big massive ones at the front. And then 2As for neutral at the lights, if i think i'll be waiting long, stick it in neutral. If not, just use the clutch.
I was thought the whole "leave it in gear and use the back brake" thing but you can lose your balance with a foot on the back brake, I rather use the front.

faceman

OP as you can see from the thread there are different opinions on light etiquette. Personally i use the 2 step thing most of the time.

From a safety perspective Im generally in 1st gear ready to go at lights, particularly if there is no traffic behind me for safety reasons. On the off chance i feel the driver behind isnt going to stop in time!

Do the lessons, you wont regret it. It has saved my life during crashes twice (because i knew what to do) and avoids me being involved in crashes every day.

cantdecide

nereid wrote: »

I don't want to get into this, but you are so wrong, on both counts.

In fact, in theory, you should be able to drive without using the brakes at all (most definitely on the motorway).


Go to mondello too, and see how far into the gravel 70% front brake gets you too.

A) We'll see what the OP reports back after his/ her imminent training which (s)he will be booking in the next couple of days:P:P:P

Lighting up the rear brake lights alone is very important IMO. Like most, I often don't apply any pressure at all. Bike engine-braking is sufficient if you're just pootling about/ commuting.

C) OP, different rules apply to your technique when Driving in mondello/ acting the b*llocks in general compared to keeping body and soul together. PLease make the distinction here and now. Half of what you will hear will be based on max performance instead of max safety.

Hotblack Desiato

Tbh a lot of the x% front / y% rear stuff is a bit OTT

How do you compare the force you exert with your fingers, to the force you exert with your foot? Given that your foot is (or should be) in a fairly stiff, heavy boot and has little feel. It's really only an attempt, and not a great one, to get the idea across to total noobs that you can't get away with the same front brake effort in the wet as you can in the dry.

A lot depends on the bike too, for instance I had a GS500 where the back brake pedal was too long with too much leverage. Locked up waay too easy. Next bike was a CBR600, back brake had good power but took a lot more effort and so a lot harder to lock up accidentally. Current bike is a Triumph Sprint ST, the back braking force is deliberately limited (all Triumphs are like this) so it's practically impossible to lock the rear.

A lot of riders fear the front brake, some even never use it, but a lot more crashes are caused by locking the rear than locking the front.

I have had a few spills over the years, all except one caused by losing or locking the rear. Only once did I lose the front and that was applying a ridiculous amount of force trying to stop after following a car far too closely, which had to jam on when a child ran out (thankfully nobody hurt.) Lesson learned just wish the quality of training available now was around when I was starting out.

gipi

nereid wrote: »

Wet weather 99-100% front.
Dry conditions 100% front.

Just my own 2c worth, having recently done some rider training.

The instructor demonstrated braking using front only, back only and front & back (dry road, straight line, 50kph, big bike 1400cc or so). The bike stopped in the shortest distance when both brakes were used.

We were taught the 70/30 ratio for braking in the dry as well.

Limerick Bandit

About percentages %

When your about to plow into a car you break as hard as you can, when you break hard on the front you push the front end into the road creating maximum breaking force and you push it as hard as you think the tires can handle, this takes weight off the back end and reduces the effect of using the back break 80% Front 20% back,

You’re not going to think about % when you’re trying to save your life
You just break as hard as you can, and know your limits

There are times when its better to just lock up the back and come off rather than T bone a car but that’s an on the seine decision.

Again I would say get lessons!

And just at the point you think you have this cracked!
Realize that the best road racers have died off bikes; it’s all about trying to stay alive and having fun

CrazyRabbit

I was taught the 70/30 braking method as well. But what hasn't been covered here much is how strongly you brake overall.

The more gradual your braking is, the safer it is, regardless of front/back percentages. This is especially true in wet conditions or on poor road surfaces. So....make sure you always try to keep a safe distance from other vehicles (which depends on speed and driving conditions).

Also, braking should only be done when driving in a straight line. Whilst turning, less of the tyre is in contact with the road, and there is more stress on that contact. It should be noted that excessive acceleration whilst turning can be just as bad.

Some other tips...
Leave a bigger gap between you and any large vehicles in front of you. They block your view of the road ahead and make you less aware of potential dangers that may cause the vechicle ahead to brake unexpectedly.

Get used to looking over your shoulder before changing lanes, pulling out. Sooo many new riders don't do this as it feels awkward for them. But it is extremely important. It's called a Lifesaver glance for a good reason.

Adjust your mirrors to suit your riding position. Perhaps someone here with more experience can give better advice on this, but personally my right mirror is set to give a better view of road far behind me, and my left mirror is adjusted to show a better view of what is closer to me.

At low speed, be aware of the effect that road markings can have on the handling of your bike. Some of the newer 'white line' markings seem to be about 1.5cm high off the ground. 3 days ago I seen a learner biker driving in between two lanes of cars to get to the front of the traffic lights. The bumpy lane divider lines caused him to struggle with his balance and he hit off one of the cars.

Observation, observation, observation! If you don't know what's happening around you, then you can't react to it and are much more likely to get involved in an accident. I would say that a large percentage of accidents are due to people not spotting potential dangers and therefore not being able to react to those potential dangers.

And lastly....don't drive on the lights of the vehicle in front of you. What this means, is that you should always be looking down the road in front of you, and not at the vehicle directly in front of you. That vehicle in front of you may have the worst driver in history. So don't be using their brake lights as indicators of when to slow down. (yes, some people actually drive like that)