Commencement notice

malone123

Hi,

I just received planning permission but was told i need to wait 4 weeks before commencing, does anyone know if this is completly necessary?

Thanks

sydthebeat

malone123 wrote: »

Hi,

I just received planning permission but was told i need to wait 4 weeks before commencing, does anyone know if this is completly necessary?

Thanks

you first recieve 'notification of decision'..... this is NOT planning permission.

in 4 weeks time you recieve 'Grant of permission'... which is the actual legal planning permission.


yes, it is necessary to wait.. surprised your agent didnt tell you this, its a very common question.

RKQ

Any person that objected to your application has 4 weeks to appeal to An Bord Pleanala.

After or if the Grant of Permission is issued you must give the Council / Building Control a minimum of 14 days notice of your intention to start building. So It really at least 6 weeks before you can legally start.
Starting any sooner will incur a fine.

Note you will need the Commencement Notice receipt number for your Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations.

malone123

Thanks for your reply, i'm a bit clueless about all this, we had started clearing the site (its an extension) but then we were told to wait before pouring the foundations, and we had someone ready this weekend!

Poor Uncle Tom

Actualy, you can pre-empt the 'Grant of Permission' by filling out the Commencement Notice and putting your start date at 28 days after the date of the 'Notification of Decision to Grant' then lodge the notice with the fee between 14 and 28 days before the start date.

This ensures you can start construction on day 29 (providing nobody appeals to an bord pleanala, you will also need to check with them if there is an appeal)

Generally, site clearance is not considered starting work.

muffler

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Actualy, you can pre-empt the 'Grant of Permission' by filling out the Commencement Notice and putting your start date at 28 days after the date of the 'Notification of Decision to Grant' then lodge the notice with the fee between 14 and 28 days before the start date.

This ensures you can start construction on day 29 (providing nobody appeals to an bord pleanala, you will also need to check with them if there is an appeal)

Generally, site clearance is not considered starting work.

Yeah I've went down that road a couple of times but it was pointed out to me (by someone in BC) that strictly speaking you have to insert the date of the final grant of PP (and expiry date) on the commencement notice and the local PA dont give that date until its actually due. So effectively you have to wait for the final grant in order to insert the correct date.

Thats the way the planning part works in Donegal but I have guessed the date a couple of times and it was fine.

gman2k

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Actualy, you can pre-empt the 'Grant of Permission' by filling out the Commencement Notice and putting your start date at 28 days after the date of the 'Notification of Decision to Grant' then lodge the notice with the fee between 14 and 28 days before the start date.

This ensures you can start construction on day 29 (providing nobody appeals to an bord pleanala, you will also need to check with them if there is an appeal)

Generally, site clearance is not considered starting work.

Some LAs now consider site clearance as part of the development works, DLR comes to mind based on recent experience

RKQ

I was taking in general terms, so as not to confuse the OP.

True it can be pre-empted provided you can guess the date, as both the grant date and expirey date are both required!:cool:

This can be difficult with certain Councils that use the 4 weeks plus working days allowed by An Bord Pleanala, when no objection is received, then they usually issue Grants on the nearest friday after the statutory time etc. This can be five weeks plus.

Some staff get abit annoyed if they receive a Commencement Notice before they issued one with the Final Grant. Its a small thing but it can confuse and annoy individuals. Everyone is entitled to administer their office as they see fit, so I don't blame them getting annoyed.

Poor Uncle Tom

Two weeks head start at this time of year is worth some paperpusher's annoyance..:D (naw, any one of the BC people I've done it with have been fine about it)

I had a case where Waterford CC 'forgot' to send out the final grant until I went looking for it 12 months after the notification.

muffler

I was going to ask about the level of control but I'll start a thread in the AT forum.

Talwin

Just as a side note dont forget about any planning conditions which have to be discharged before commencement

muffler

Talwin wrote: »

Just as a side note dont forget about any planning conditions which have to be discharged before commencement

You may have gotten that a bit arseways

You cant even attempt to comply with conditions applicable to the site until after the commencement date.

sydthebeat

muffler wrote: »

You may have gotten that a bit arseways

You cant even attempt to comply with conditions applicable to the site until after the commencement date.

Some conditions of planning may need to be addressed BEFORE commencement of works.
This can cause problems when trying to get a commencement notice in before final grant date.

sinnerboy

... such as -

-external finishes to be agreed in writing before commencement starts
- revised drawing to indicate velux moved by xx M to the west to be submitted for written agreement before commencement starts

So you make your submissions . And wait for written agreement . And wait . And wait . And then wait again ............

Or you just lodge your CN and off you go . Just kidding forum rules forbid me suggesting that as a SERIOUS option .

muffler

Thanks lads I did say

conditions applicable to the site

Conditions such as a change in external finish etc wont affect the commencement of the works though. I adopt the approach that if conditions are imposed whereby the applicant has to submit something or other "prior to commencement of the development" the once its submitted its fine. Its up to the PA to decide as to when they want to reply/confirm. Once the submission is made the onus is then on the PA to "comply" with whatever conditions that needed sorting out.

gman2k

muffler wrote: »

Thanks lads I did say

Conditions such as a change in external finish etc wont affect the commencement of the works though. I adopt the approach that if conditions are imposed whereby the applicant has to submit something or other "prior to commencement of the development" the once its submitted its fine. Its up to the PA to decide as to when they want to reply/confirm. Once the submission is made the onus is then on the PA to "comply" with whatever conditions that needed sorting out.

Word of caution on this one guys - DLRCoCo are causing mayhem at the moment
'check on status planning compliance documents as DLRCC have no statutory timeframe to respond and there may not be a positive response from them. Heard rumours of something similar lately which is causing much consternation. We're talking refusals of proposals etc at very late stage in job!!!' - passed on from an ex colleague.

sinnerboy

Generation of workload . Very easy to justify you are needed when you can "create" work like this . RFI's followed by clarification of RFI's followed by "to be agreed" conditions.

All keep case files alive ... busy ....busy ....state employed workers , squeezing the life out of what activity remains in the still active real economy

To clarify - I am NOT saying this is going on DLRCC - I would sooner pull my own tongue out

gman2k

Well, I'm saying that it goes on at the Planning Application stage in Kildare County Council.
Not so much that they want to keep files alive, but because there were not enough planners, so PAs would not be looked at until a couple of days to go - then stupid RFIs.
Once had to threaten them to release the final grant of planning - the excuse was that the person that typed them up only worked a half week, and a backlog had built up!

muffler

Sorry lads but this thread is about commencement notices so could we get back on topic again please.

Poor Uncle Tom

sinnerboy wrote: »

Generation of workload . Very easy to justify you are needed when you can "create" work like this . RFI's followed by clarification of RFI's followed by "to be agreed" conditions.

All keep case files alive ... busy ....busy ....state employed workers , squeezing the life out of what activity remains in the still active real economy..

Bang on buddy.:)

Back on topic. How many jobs ACTUALY start on the day stated on the commencement notice.

patsy sally

Hi guys, myself and my husband got the final grant of permission from the county council on 6th august, and received the letter on 7th august. Does anyone know when we can legally start groundworks and pouring foundations, if we submit the commencement notice on wednesday 12th august?
Would it be 14 days from the 6th of august or 14 days from the 12th? Also, do the council come around to make sure you havent commenced works before day 14?
Also, does marking off of the site and site clearance such as digging the foundations and pouring of the foundations count as works having been commenced within that time?
Can I backdate the commencement form back to the date of receipt of final grant of permission, on condition that it is jus

patsy sally

on condition it is just a few days in the difference?

I would be grateful for any information. The architectural technician doesn't exactly tell myself and my husband much about the process.

Gumbo

patsy sally wrote: »

Hi guys, myself and my husband got the final grant of permission from the county council on 6th august, and received the letter on 7th august. Does anyone know when we can legally start groundworks and pouring foundations, if we submit the commencement notice on wednesday 12th august?
Would it be 14 days from the 6th of august or 14 days from the 12th? Also, do the council come around to make sure you havent commenced works before day 14?
Also, does marking off of the site and site clearance such as digging the foundations and pouring of the foundations count as works having been commenced within that time?
Can I backdate the commencement form back to the date of receipt of final grant of permission, on condition that it is jus

What are you building?
Have you got an Assigned Certifier or Design Certifier engaged yet?
Have you got construction drawings prepared yet? As these need to be lodged with your notice.

Lodge 12th commence on the 26th.
Pouring foundations comes under Part A of the Building Regulations so in theory counts as commencement.
Do the LA check- In Dublin they did/do. Not worth the risk with the current BCAR a system and the hassle it could cause on completion. Just wait the 2 weeks.

Site clearance, hoarding etc are fine to proceed with.