How strong could you get?

BobbyOLeary

Hi guys,

I was thinking about this the other day and I couldn't really come up with an answer. How strong (raw strength so Squat, Deadlift, Bench or Military Press) do you think the average person could get if they went in for strength training?

What I mean is, hypothesize that you've got a group of randomly selected healthy males who would follow all of your nutrition and training advice to the letter and would have no other health problems. How strong on the big compound lifts do you think they could get? Obviously it depends on genetics but with a large enough group these outliers wouldn't disturb the average too much.

Pretty much the question is, how strong can you get before you are limited by your genetics?

Any thoughts?

celestial

Piece of string, how long?!

You'd need to specify all the variables otherwise your answer is the answer above. Training duration, frequency, sets, reps range, rest periods, diet, sleep, existing injuries, likelihood of injury/illness based on all these factors.

Then there are the much less measurable factors such as motivation levels, mental attitude, even access to equipment...etc etc

Come back when you've got parameters set for all the above:)

I know what you're driving at in a sense though - what is the potential all things being equal - genetics is the key factor and always will be - no matter how hard a group of people work only a tiny percentage of them is gonna lift what Ronnie Coleman can lift....it's a bit like the Olympic athlete thing - no matter how hard you train you need to be in that 1% genetically gifted bracket to really hit the absolute heights (which in this case could be a x00kg+ bench press, or whichever).

Hanley

You can ALWAYS get stronger. You can ALWAYS add another 2.5kg to the bar. It might take 6 months, but you can do it.

For the "average" 90-100kg guy, who's serious about his traning, but doesn't dedicate himself to it fully, I guess around a 200-210kg squat, 150-160kg bench and 240 or 250kg deadlift might be a good target if they were to focus on getting stronger all the time.

The above based off a 20 year timescale (age 20 to 40) and all lifts done to powerlifting comp standards, but bench without a pause.

spiral

good to know I havent peaked yet so

Dragan

From a pure genetic level, as Hanley has pointed out, the average human is capable of great feats. It's a matter of consistancy and effort though and that is where the majority of people will fall down in their chosen field.

Mental weakness will always be what holds people back.

Roper

I would have to say that I'd be interested to know, but wouldn't be willing to commit the time to find out. So while there might be some genetic differences, we're mostly the same so I'd say I wouldn't be far off by picking 5 powerlifters who were my weight who had similar current strength numbers as to what I have now and see what results they have achieved. I don't think you'd be too far off. You may have one freak in the number but the averages would probably be right enough assuming good training.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

I would have to say that I'd be interested to know, but wouldn't be willing to commit the time to find out. So while there might be some genetic differences, we're mostly the same so I'd say I wouldn't be far off by picking 5 powerlifters who were my weight who had similar current strength numbers as to what I have now and see what results they have achieved. I don't think you'd be too far off. You may have one freak in the number but the averages would probably be right enough assuming good training.

Averages being by their very nature indicative of a level that most people will attain :P

I do agree tho, it's just like a standard distribution curve. The majority will be in the middle, and you'll have the freaks on one end, and the weak girly men on the other!!

the drifter

can you give this to us in graph form Mr.Hanley sir.....given that most of the freaks will prob outweight the average in bodyweight...wont this help them tilt the curve??

Hanley

the drifter wrote: »

can you give this to us in graph form Mr.Hanley sir.....given that most of the freaks will prob outweight the average in bodyweight...wont this help them tilt the curve??

It's just your bog standard standard distribution curve;



You've the normal guys in the middle, the weak guys to the far left and the freaks to the far right. Of course I'm asssuming a specific bodyweight range for comparison purposes... Say 90-100kg to prevent bodyweight being a factor, you'll get guys at 100kg who can total 800kg raw, but that's totally unusual and those are the guys on the far right at the tail of the curve. The same holds true for all the weight class ranges.

Roper

That's what I'm talking about I suppose. I mean, for a guy like me who is never going to dedicate himself to getting big numbers on lifts then that's useful enough. I'll have to assume I'm in the middle though I would want to be on the far end of the curve!

As for being skewed by bodyweight, yes but as I said I'd have to pick those guys who started out like me, my height and weight and similar numbers.

Dragan

Roper wrote: »

That's what I'm talking about I suppose. I mean, for a guy like me who is never going to dedicate himself to getting big numbers on lifts then that's useful enough. I'll have to assume I'm in the middle though I would want to be on the far end of the curve!

As for being skewed by bodyweight, yes but as I said I'd have to pick those guys who started out like me, my height and weight and similar numbers.

The curve is merely relative to the factor being measured. For example, take something along the lines of strength and measure the population of Fitness and you will have guys like Hanley etc coming it at the freak end.

Take something more inline with Martial Arts and you would be proping up the freak end.

Drop it into a large population and chances are the majority of people will shift left or right.

Basically, if you want to be at the freak end just measure a metric that you are strong in.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

That's what I'm talking about I suppose. I mean, for a guy like me who is never going to dedicate himself to getting big numbers on lifts then that's useful enough. I'll have to assume I'm in the middle though I would want to be on the far end of the curve!

As for being skewed by bodyweight, yes but as I said I'd have to pick those guys who started out like me, my height and weight and similar numbers.

Yup.... In case anyone's not getting what I mean, there's a guy the same bodyweight as Roper, but he's an IPF world champion. No matter what Roper or anyone else does, they're not going to get near him. He's just more gifted genetically so he's off to the right of the curve - the dark green area.

Then you've guys like me (big head warning...), I think I've a fair amount of genetic potential when it comes to putting up a big total. I may or may not hit the dark green area at some stage in the next 10-20 years, I might not. It's not immediately clear. So I'd probably class myself as being towards the right of the light green area.

Then there's the guys who just train away, maybe have the potential to get into the light green area, or maybe not. Think of the curve as genetic potential. You can be perfectly good in the middle, and be stronger than a hell of a lot of people, but you just can't do anything to prevent the freaks from going off to the right.

wasabi

Hanley wrote: »

Averages being by their very nature indicative of a level that most people will attain :P

I do agree tho, it's just like a standard distribution curve. The majority will be in the middle, and you'll have the freaks on one end, and the weak girly men on the other!!

Or you might well find that people who stick at powerlifting in the medium to long term are those who are more suited to it, and those who don't get on well with it (don't progress or get injured or whatever) go off and do martial arts or triathlons or something else.

This strength chart purports to give pretty much the info the OP was looking for, anyway:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

@the drifter, the freaks come in all sizes, I've met some quite small people who are really ridiculously strong.

BobbyOLeary

Hmmm, Rippetoe's chart is useful but isn't exactly what I'm looking for. Maybe the question is impossible to answer but I was just curious as to what the limit of strength for an "average" person would be if they were free of injuries and had unlimited mental strength in order to keep on with their training. It was just one of those rambling thoughts that float around between sets in the gym.

COH

Similar conversation here...

http://www.teamtestforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2900

Hanley

COH wrote: »

Similar conversation here...

http://www.teamtestforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2900

It's not really.... it's only asking who has a 130kg bench, 180kg squat and 220kg deadlift....

Roper

Just to emphasise I was talking purely hypothetically, in an ideal world that assumes equal time training, equal starting numbers, equal commitment and equally good programmes.

Bell curves are about what I was talking about. But then I didn't really think it through.

Hanley

Roper wrote: »

Just to emphasise I was talking purely hypothetically, in an ideal world that assumes equal time training, equal starting numbers, equal commitment and equally good programmes.

Bell curves are about what I was talking about. But then I didn't really think it through.

I made all the same assumptions fwiw.