Budget 2009 - The "car parking" debacle

MrExcitement

From RTE.ie
"Responding to queries about the Budget on RTE Radio this morning, Brian Lenihan said the decision to impose a €200 charge on workers with free parking at their place of employment, would give Revenue 'an interesting time' and that it was a detailed matter of tax administration."

I'm wondering what the general feeling is on this one. This charge is to impact those who enjoy of "privilege" of free car parking in "urban" areas.

In my place of work, its not exactly city centre in Limerick but its probably on the perimeter(maybe). We have "free" parking but its a free for all and the number of staff working at any time tends to exceed the number of spaces available. As such I end up firing my car in a nearby supermarket car park most of the time.

I cannot see how my company
A) can prove I use their car park....given that the truth is that mostly I dont
could be bothered to prove the above
C) is it their responsibility to even assist in flushing out those freeloading carparkers?

From the looks of things, it seems Mr Lenihen isnt quite sure how this is going to be enforced.

Somehow I can see this one being scarcely enforced and ultimately disappearing come the next budget as a "good will" gesture to the public while they slap on another 2% levy on our wages because inflation is very unlikely to go down in 2009 after all.......despite the rather odd and over optimistic forecast our government has made.

I dunno.....its an odd one. Maybe I should avail of that "cycle to work" scheme. Its only 30 miles to work...and I'll save on the BIK

markpb

I think they'll go for the simplest option. Anyone who has a reserved space at work (typically managers or in small companies) in a city district will pay an extra €200 per year (either themselves or their company). If parking isn't guaranteed (not enough spaces for all employees, etc), it won't apply.

nuac

members of the Oireachtas have free carparking for life at Leinster House. Surely this right should be taxed at it's full market value - worth at least €10,000 p.a. to have such a facility in the centre of Dublin

A Dub in Glasgo

MrExcitement wrote: »

From RTE.ie
"Responding to queries about the Budget on RTE Radio this morning, Brian Lenihan said the decision to impose a €200 charge on workers with free parking at their place of employment, would give Revenue 'an interesting time' and that it was a detailed matter of tax administration."

I'm wondering what the general feeling is on this one. This charge is to impact those who enjoy of "privilege" of free car parking in "urban" areas.

In my place of work, its not exactly city centre in Limerick but its probably on the perimeter(maybe). We have "free" parking but its a free for all and the number of staff working at any time tends to exceed the number of spaces available. As such I end up firing my car in a nearby supermarket car park most of the time.

I cannot see how my company
A) can prove I use their car park....given that the truth is that mostly I dont
could be bothered to prove the above
C) is it their responsibility to even assist in flushing out those freeloading carparkers?

Obviously not reserved parking although you call the guys who park near/in your work freeloaders yet you seem to miss that you are freeloading in the local supermarket!!

It is a BIK if somebody gets free parking in a city or build up area where other people have to pay for parking. It is right that those who get that BIK should be taxed.

K!LL!@N

What would stop the companies from charging their employees say 1c per day to park?
Would that still count as free parking?

A Dub in Glasgo

I would imagine it would be referenced to what it would cost to park in the location without the subsidised parking

is_that_so

I heard a PWC chap on Drivetime in the afternoon say that it would apply to all spaces, shared or otherwise. So if 4 people shared it , all four would be hit. But no info on how it would be administered, to date.

dresden8

Minister doesn't know who or how many people it will affect but can say how much it will raise?

Back of an envelope job?

http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html#_Toc211585093

A flat rate levy of €200 per annum will be charged on employees whose employer provides them with car parking facilities. The levy will be confined to employer provided car parking facilities situated in the main urban centres.

The estimated yield from this measure is €5 million in 2009 and €10 million in a full year.

Crash

My father had a point that a while back there were discussions of considering such things as benefit in kind - imagine the true cost of one of those parking spots when considered as such? :P

cyclopath2001

is_that_so wrote: »

I heard a PWC chap on Drivetime in the afternoon say that it would apply to all spaces, shared or otherwise. So if 4 people shared it , all four would be hit. But no info on how it would be administered, to date.

I cycle to work or use public transport. But, I'm entitled to free parking at my city centre office.

Will I be liable?

What if someone is entitled to parking, but doesn't own a car?

mountainyman

Is Lenihan really claiming that a car parking space in and industrial estate outside Cavan town is worth the same as one in the centre of Dublin.

But sure how could he know the value of anything? Didn't the father get a free liver and drink it away like George Best?

jon1981

many would companies start offsetting this against salaries? including it in the employment package along with pensions, vhi, bonuses etc.

what I dont understand is this. my companies has about 100 spaces for 1000 employees on a first come first serve basis, how will this work? i dont want to be paying 200 euro for a space i cant get then end up having to pay the meter to park on the side of the road.

would citywest be considered as an urban area? and what happens when everyone becomes green, will the government start hiking taxes in other areas to make up the losses in motor tax, petrol....

jon1981

dresden8 wrote: »

Minister doesn't know who or how many people it will affect but can say how much it will raise?

Back of an envelope job?

http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html#_Toc211585093

is 2009 not a full year ? or is it been introduced part way through 09' ?

A flat rate levy of €200 per annum will be charged on employees whose employer provides them with car parking facilities. The levy will be confined to employer provided car parking facilities situated in the main urban centres.

The estimated yield from this measure is €5 million in 2009 and €10 million in a full year.

Macha

I would guess that the cost would be split among all potential and willing users. IE, those who have no intention of using the car spaces from now on, can be struck off the list. Then those who still want to use the car spaces, albeit not every day, will be put on a list and the total cost will be split between them.

Eg, say 500 people in your company say they don't want to use a car space - that leaves 500 people to split the cost of 100 spaces (=€20,000). Divide this amount among the 500 people and its €40/each per year. Say everyone decides to leave themselves open to use the carpark - then it's €20/each per year.

Not a huge amount of money by any stretch of the imagination. especially considering the cost of providing the car spaces to the company and the saving to the employee. If I were an employer, providing a lot of parking, I would be very happy about this measure.

jon1981

well if thats the system they come up with ill be happy. theres no way you should be forced to pay the full whack for the potential use of a space

Heroditas

It really is a half-asses scheme and the fact that the main "free" car parks in urban areas are owned by the OPW means that the main culprits in availing of city parking probably won't even be charged.

Good point regarding the 1c a week parking. Is it considered "free" then?

Macha

jon1981 wrote: »

well if thats the system they come up with ill be happy. theres no way you should be forced to pay the full whack for the potential use of a space

Well, I'm kinda just guessing. Maybe I should Gormley a call :pac:

Heroditas wrote: »

It really is a half-asses scheme and the fact that the main "free" car parks in urban areas are owned by the OPW means that the main culprits in availing of city parking probably won't even be charged.

As far as I'm aware, civil servant car parking spaces will be included. It isn't half-assed, it's based on recommendations by the think tank, IIEA.

Heroditas wrote: »

Good point regarding the 1c a week parking. Is it considered "free" then?

I would say that if it comes in considerably below the market value, ie is subsidized by the employer, this tax will apply. Where that threshold would be remains to be seen.

Fratton Fred

The 1c per week charge is a good idea, but what's the chances they will pitch it at "Market rate" (€2-3 per hour or something).

What's "Urban"? if you take somewhere like Parkwest, people will stop parking in their company parking spaces and park on the roads, or is that not Urban. Do people who don't drive to work have to pay? how do they know who does and doesn't drive to work?

I remember this was talked about in the UK and was dropped because it was considered unworkable, they just brought in the congestion charge instead:rolleyes:

Macha

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The 1c per week charge is a good idea, but what's the chances they will pitch it at "Market rate" (€2-3 per hour or something).

What's "Urban"? if you take somewhere like Parkwest, people will stop parking in their company parking spaces and park on the roads, or is that not Urban. Do people who don't drive to work have to pay? how do they know who does and doesn't drive to work?

I remember this was talked about in the UK and was dropped because it was considered unworkable, they just brought in the congestion charge instead:rolleyes:

Ok market rate depends on where you are. Short-term, central locations have a higher rate than long-term, more distant-from-destination locations. (Think stephen's green car park vs airport long-stay carpark). So the market rate would vary greatly. A Dublin city-centre car parking space costs about €100/month so €200/year is pretty cheap.

They're yet to define "major urban area". It isn't about who drives - it's about who parks (although clearly the aim is to reduce drive commutes). So if two or more people are car-pooling, I'm guessing they would share the cost among themselves.

nhughes100

This is another hare brained scheme from the Greens. What if you work at shopping centre or college/school or an area where there is unrestricted public access to the car park? What if you have no choice in the use of public transport? I've no major problem with this in the city centre areas that are well served by public transport but you try and get from a commuter town to a Dublin suberb by using public transport or your bicycle??

Will students who drive have to pay this? Believe me there are a hell of a lot of them.

jmayo

nhughes100 wrote: »

Will students who drive have to pay this? Believe me there are a hell of a lot of them.

Students shouldn't be driving. It makes them fat, lazy and increases insurance costs for the rest of us.
It was one of the worst things about our celtic tiger and thankfully it will be a thing of the past soon.
God be with the days when I was a student and 10 of us would pile into the back of some fellows mother's ould dodgy 2 1/2 door fiesta and end up having to push it because it had no battery

This was a scheme dreamt up by the greens and it is partially aimed at trying to prevent people driving to work in the city centres.
Also it sounds good because it could catch out some civil servants and management types.
Sure anyway we will only have to wait a few decades to have the new undergrounds or maybe the new light monorail systems :rolleyes: