Automatic Car

emma6606

Hi Everyone,
Just a quick question... Im buying a new car this week - ive picked out a lovely BMW but its automatic (Automatic, tiptronic & Sports gearbox)...

apart from the adjustment to driving without a clutch are there any big differences or problems associated with an automatic?
Is it harder on petrol?
Is it more likely to break down?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks a mill
Emma
:P

vengeance52

emma6606 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,
Just a quick question... Im buying a new car this week - ive picked out a lovely BMW but its automatic (Automatic, tiptronic & Sports gearbox)...

apart from the adjustment to driving without a clutch are there any big differences or problems associated with an automatic?
Is it harder on petrol?
Is it more likely to break down?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks a mill
Emma
:P

I will be a bit harder on petrol, but if you do alot of city or M50 rushhour driving, then id rather have an auto.

also, its better for the car, to put it in neutral when your stopped at lights etc (with foot on brake or handbrake on)

Gumbo

i had an auto for a year and my next car will be auto too.
with traffic the way it is, auto is king.

i like the BMW auto box too.

what version of car did you buy?

galwaytt

emma6606 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,
Just a quick question... Im buying a new car this week - ive picked out a lovely BMW but its automatic (Automatic, tiptronic & Sports gearbox)...

apart from the adjustment to driving without a clutch are there any big differences or problems associated with an automatic?
Is it harder on petrol?
Is it more likely to break down?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks a mill
Emma
:P

Congrats on your new car (new, new ?) !

Auto: a small bit more juice, but not much. And no, no more likely to break down.

Aside from that you'll find them infinately more stress-free to drive, esp in traffic, and you'll find yourself less likely to speed, too = less chance to get points !

Black Sky

Auto all the way.....
At the end of your first journey in busy traffic, you'll wonder why you never got one before now.......
A little heavier on juice..... a lot less stressful to drive....
Best of luck......

Eoin

You won't know yourself, I changed to an auto BMW a few months and would find it very hard to go back to a manual. The ease of use in traffic makes up for any extra MPG it might use up.

Tiptronic isn't really worth using though as the gear changes are too slow. Sport mode + kickdown will do the trick though!

I genuinely don't understand the reluctance on this side of the ocean to using automatics.

Best of luck with it.

alpina

Well in fairness the newish Co2 laws here are doing autos no favours..
520d msport cheaper than 520d se auto, which of the two is the more stand out car?:(

Eoin

alpina wrote: »

Well in fairness the newish Co2 laws here are doing autos no favours..:(

It goes back much further than the VRT changes, it's all to do with this idea that autos can't be fun to drive I think.

alpina

true having to pay approx. 5k for the auto option, no fun:):);)

Congratulations on making a very good decision, why oh why doesn't everyone own an automatic??

One thing, be nice to your oul accelerator, I put my foot down alot (although not now with 8cent on every feckin litre) but if you drive it too hard too often, your clutch can suffer, and if that goes, your talking alot of pennies and heartache to get it replaced. But you'd want to really be driving the sh*t out of it all day every day for that to happen!

You'll never want to drive a manual again!

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

One thing, be nice to your oul accelerator, I put my foot down alot (although not now with 8cent on every feckin litre) but if you drive it too hard too often, your clutch can suffer.

How would a clutch go in an automatic?
Does the new BMW autos use a clutch?

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

How would a clutch go in an automatic?
Does the new BMW autos use a clutch?

well the clutch is what makes the car change gears soooooo, I guess so?

The term automatic refers to the automatic clutch?

xt40

wow. 10 posts and not one "expert" telling the op that autos are crap and you cant sell them on. are people in this country finally seeing the light.,

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

well the clutch is what makes the car change gears soooooo, I guess so?

The term automatic refers to the automatic clutch?

Most automatic use a torque converter not a clutch mechanism with different gears. However it could use a system with a clutch like Volkswagens DSG.
I don't know so if you could fill me in that would be super.

xt40

Deleted User wrote: »

well the clutch is what makes the car change gears soooooo, I guess so?

The term automatic refers to the automatic clutch?

ROFLMAO x 100

nah just getting lazier

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

nah just getting lazier

So why give advice on an automatic transmition when you have no idea what it is?

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

Most automatic use a torque converter not a clutch mechanism with different gears. However it could use a system with a clutch like Volkswagens DSG.
I don't know so if you could fill me in that would be super.

I cannee fill you in cos I don't know!

I always thought the torque converter was the clutch :rolleyes:, i'm just a girl tho so what would I know!!!

helpful article maybe?
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/automatic-transmission-problems.html

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

So why give advice on an automatic transmition when you have no idea what it is?

ya big fat meany, did your mom never tell you to be nice to girls.

I drive an automatic, so em, I have had a good lot of experience with them - you don't have to be an expert to give some advice - or do you?? maybe I missed that in the rules?

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

I cannee fill you in cos I don't know!

I always thought the torque converter was the clutch :rolleyes:, i'm just a girl tho so what would I know!!!

helpful article maybe?
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/automatic-transmission-problems.html

A basic understanding of what you are talking about is advised when giving advice.
Your mom sounds sexist, mine wasn't.
No a clutch is used to engage and disengae the transmition, this is needed in a manual gear box system. When a torque converter is used there is no need for a clutch.
As for the link, of course autos can give trouble but so can manuals.
I am unsure of which is the most reliable system as I know very little about cars.

AirsoftEire.com

Automatic all the way, i got my BMW 728 in May and have never looked back. Driving is a doddle, reversing is a doddle, idling in traffic is a doddle.

If you're sitting on a flat at the lights, stick it in neutral and you don't even need to brake, even though you probably should is someone slammed into you from behind. If you're on a hill, do the same but stick the parking brake on.

Only use Park when you're going to stop the car and turn off the engine. Transmission fluid only needs changing (well on mine) on 100,000 miles +.

Autos change gears better than you ever could so don't worry about wear. Good choice!

tuxy

tuxy wrote: »

A basic understanding of what you are talking about is advised when giving advice.
Your mom sounds sexist, mine wasn't.
No a clutch is used to engage and disengae the transmition, this is needed in a manual gear box system. When a torque converter is used there is no need for a clutch.
As for the link, of course autos can give trouble but so can manuals.
I am unsure of which is the most reliable system as I know very little about cars.

The OP asked for some advice on potential problems, hence the article would be very helpful me thinks! I'm sure I could find an article about problems with manuals but she's not looking for that is she?

and thank you tuxy for clearing up my auto issue, actually it is my mechanic who had me on the wrong track as he is the one always telling me to stop driving my car so hard as i'll end up needing a new clutch, so, sorry for making a mistake, i hope I didn't upset you too much

I think you should probably get some sleep - you sound a bit cranky!

Eoin

AirsoftEire.com wrote: »

If you're sitting on a flat at the lights, stick it in neutral and you don't even need to brake, even though you probably should is someone slammed into you from behind. If you're on a hill, do the same but stick the parking brake on.

Or just leave it in D and keep your foot on the brake.

tuxy

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you should probably get some sleep - you sound a bit cranky!

Nice edit

Gary ITR

Just on people saying Autos are better etc, IMO top end auto's are fantastic but the likes of corolla, yaris, almera etc autos are awful. I drove an almera auto on a short spin and the gearchange was terrible and made for a very uncomfortable drive.

Driving an E-Class or a VW DSG is an absolute pleasure though

tuxy

Onkle wrote: »

I drove an almera auto on a short spin and the gearchange was terrible and made for a very comfortable drive.

Almers may have the ultimate in comfortable driveing but I would still rather something better than an Opel.

Tony Broke

Congrats on the new car OP.What kind of bmw is it?

Sorry for going off topic, but what would be a good auto car for around €1000, diesel prefered.

I have been driving manual for the last 5 years and would like to try out an auto.A friend of my fathers has a Rover 75 auto diesel with bmw engine and I am going to try it out on the weekend.He says they are the car to go for cheap, solid build, hell of a car for 7 or 8k if you get from the uk.At 23 I am a bit too young for a rover though, I want something a little sportier.

What would yee recommend?

2005 FORD MONDEO 2.0TDCi 130 LX 5dr Auto Diesel Hatchback £3195

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=&min_pr=2000&source=0&model=&max_pr=5000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=55&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=7&distance=140&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842320901621

2006 BMW 5 SERIES 525d 4dr Auto Diesel Saloon £4600

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=&min_pr=2000&source=0&model=&max_pr=5000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=55&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=2&distance=199&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842320939212

2005 05 Reg Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi 136 SE £5000

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=PEUGEOT&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=32&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=5&distance=160&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200841320795927

2005 05 Reg SAAB 9-5 2.2 TiD Vector £5995

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=SAAB&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=62&ukcarsearch_full.y=11&start=7&distance=10&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200841320686716

2005 54 Reg AUDI A4 1.9 TDi 130 Tip £5995

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=AUDI&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=63&ukcarsearch_full.y=4&start=2&distance=158&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842321033487

Im coming up from a 98 Corrola 1.4 petrol.

Alanstrainor

AirsoftEire.com wrote: »

If you're sitting on a flat at the lights, stick it in neutral and you don't even need to brake, even though you probably should is someone slammed into you from behind. If you're on a hill, do the same but stick the parking brake on.

There is no need to stick the car in to neutral while driving an auto, it kind of defeats the purpose. They are designed to be left in Drive for the duration of a journey, unless other special gear selections are needed of course. Changing from drive to neutral puts unecessary wear on the gear box

AirsoftEire.com

Sitting at traffic lights with a 2 tonne car in drive with your foot on the brake is an awful idea. Puts wear on the pads and strain on the brake hydrolics, calipers and rotors. Moving the shifter one notch from Drive to Neutral is a much better option.

xt40

tony, you are never too young for a class motor like a 75.
as for sportiness, the autos have a switchable sport mode. much better than that tiptronic rubbish

E92

Onkle wrote: »

Driving an E-Class or a VW DSG is an absolute pleasure though

DSG has far more in common with a proper gearbox than a gearbox for those too lazy to use their left foot:)!

Buy a car with a proper gearbox, buy a manual!

Anan1

AirsoftEire.com wrote: »

Sitting at traffic lights with a 2 tonne car in drive with your foot on the brake is an awful idea. Puts wear on the pads and strain on the brake hydrolics, calipers and rotors. Moving the shifter one notch from Drive to Neutral is a much better option.

Eh, how can the pads wear when the car's not moving? And guess what, all other brake components are designed to take many times more strain than that required to stop the car from creeping. Automatic means just that, leave it in D unless the wait will be a long one.

galwaytt

E92 wrote: »

DSG has far more in common with a proper gearbox than a gearbox for those too lazy to use their left foot:)!

Buy a car with a proper gearbox, buy a manual!

Ah, let's think about for a while........

Er, NO. !!

A manual gearbox exists purely because they invented first. Climb on/under an 1899 Benz, or Model T, and you'll see why - it was simply beyond their capabilities.

I have an old automatic, and a manual version of, the same car. 99% of the time, I take the auto over the manual. It's smoother, easier, nicer, more comfortable. More civilised. Sure, it uses more juice, but in performance terms it's with in 3 or 4 mph at Vmax (155mph...) and acceleration to 60 mph is a fraction of a second slower, so I'm not buying any of that 'real gearbox' rubbish. Being a tiptronic, it does work as a manual, and very well, too. Being a 15yr old 4-speed, it's amazing, and modern ones, of any type, are infinately better.

And that means better than manuals too - which are still carrying around that Model T technology.....:D

rebel.ranter

OP I have a BMW manual & a BMW auto, the auto is my preferred choice. It's a nice smooth gear change. I was not a huge fan of autos until I got my current car. It's a pleasure to drive, a bit heavier on juice but worth it.

emma6606

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all your advice
Its a BMW 318i (1.9L) 2000 and has really low mileage...
I got the loan from the bank and am going up to sign for it tomorrow but im a bit concerned about the increase in petrol prices
Its a beauty though!

Emma

Furp

It really depends on the type of automatic, I had a look at the BMW site and there are two types of automatics available, OP you mentioned the sport version which looks like the second type of automatic which is 6 speed and has shifter paddles. Unfortunately BMW's site does not describe what type of automatics they use.

I have driven automatics from 80's Ford Granada's to modern Merc S-Class, the modern automatics are so much better and the "DSG" type used by the VAG group are excellent I believe Mercedes and BMW also use this type of automatic, which is really a dual clutch system with gearbox rather then the torque converter type.

Automatics are a pleasure to drive, unfortunately I don't' have one myself at the moment but my next car will.

Juan Pablo

Tony Broke wrote: »

Congrats on the new car OP.What kind of bmw is it?

Sorry for going off topic, but what would be a good auto car for around €1000, diesel prefered.

I have been driving manual for the last 5 years and would like to try out an auto.A friend of my fathers has a Rover 75 auto diesel with bmw engine and I am going to try it out on the weekend.He says they are the car to go for cheap, solid build, hell of a car for 7 or 8k if you get from the uk.At 23 I am a bit too young for a rover though, I want something a little sportier.

What would yee recommend?

2005 FORD MONDEO 2.0TDCi 130 LX 5dr Auto Diesel Hatchback £3195

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=&min_pr=2000&source=0&model=&max_pr=5000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=55&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=7&distance=140&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842320901621

2006 BMW 5 SERIES 525d 4dr Auto Diesel Saloon £4600

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=&min_pr=2000&source=0&model=&max_pr=5000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=55&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=2&distance=199&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842320939212

2005 05 Reg Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi 136 SE £5000

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=PEUGEOT&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=32&ukcarsearch_full.y=14&start=5&distance=160&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200841320795927

2005 05 Reg SAAB 9-5 2.2 TiD Vector £5995

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=SAAB&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=62&ukcarsearch_full.y=11&start=7&distance=10&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200841320686716

2005 54 Reg AUDI A4 1.9 TDi 130 Tip £5995

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/cars_popup.jsp?searchform=&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&photo=1&state=block&sort=3&hassearched=Y&make=AUDI&min_pr=4000&source=0&model=ANY&max_pr=6000&miles=1500&agerange=5&mileage=&postcode=m52ty&variant=&bodyid=0&trim=&fuelid=2&colour=&transmissionid=2&keywords=&ukcarsearch_full.x=63&ukcarsearch_full.y=4&start=2&distance=158&adcategory=CARS&channel=CARS&id=200842321033487

Im coming up from a 98 Corrola 1.4 petrol.

Tony the BMW in that link is a scam.

Good choice op, will probably move to an auto next myself, drove one for a few years about 10 years ago and they are handy to have in city driving.

kuro_man

AirsoftEire.com wrote: »

Sitting at traffic lights with a 2 tonne car in drive with your foot on the brake is an awful idea. Puts wear on the pads and strain on the brake hydrolics, calipers and rotors. Moving the shifter one notch from Drive to Neutral is a much better option.

In most auto cars, repeatedly putting it in neutral is not recommended - it wears the gear box. Torque converters have liquid coupling, auto gear boxes uses planetary gears that stop rather than move and are designed to be engaged while vehicle is stationary. Read the section in the owners manual to confirm.

The tiny amount of strain on the brake is negligible, and brake pads are much cheaper to replace that the gear box/torque converter.
If you are stopped a lights for an extended period, you should leave it in drive and put the parking (hand) brake on but NOT release the pedal brake. This will stop you jumping forward if your foot slips off the pedal brake (e.g. if you get rear-ended), but will not strain the parking brake.

OP, I have never met anyone moving from manual to automatic who had a problem - most prefer it. Drive the car, see if you like it!

E92

Unlike most people here it seems, I'm not a lazy old sod who thinks using their left foot to press in a pedal is "slave labour":rolleyes::rolleyes:!

And the OP is looking at a 1.9 litre 3 series, a car that's horrendously underpowered with a proper gearbox, and is no doubt even slower with a "I find using my left foot and hand too much of a pain" lazymatic box, but that apparently is a "good choice" in a car that's supposed to be an "ultimate driving machine".

I drove an E39 520i with an Auto(apparently BMW autos are one of the best around) recently because I'm itching to change my car(already:D) and an E34 520i with an auto and I was horrified by how much slower they are than the manual counterparts, and as anyone who has driven a 520i will tell you, the manuals are not fast at all and need to be worked very hard to deliver decent performance(though that's part of the appeal - getting to hear that silky smooth delightful sounding straight 6 more often:p). They use more fuel and they rob the driver of driving pleasure, which is the whole point of a Beemer.

OTOH the VAG DSG box is terriffic with those freaksihly quick gearchanges, but then again as it is largely based on a proper manual gearbox it is harldy surprising. It is good to the point I don't know whether I'd want it over a proper box or not, I can't make up my mind:D!

Eoin

Furp wrote: »

It really depends on the type of automatic, I had a look at the BMW site and there are two types of automatics available, OP you mentioned the sport version which looks like the second type of automatic which is 6 speed and has shifter paddles. Unfortunately BMW's site does not describe what type of automatics they use.

I think that might be the SMG gearbox, rather than the standard 5 speed auto 'box with sport mode.

E92 wrote: »

Unlike most people here it seems, I'm not a lazy old sod who thinks using their left foot to press in a pedal is "slave labour"

Rolleyes indeed. We all know you're an enthusiast and all that (thank Christ it's not a diesel we're talking about), but driving an automatic is much more relaxing. That's enough for most people, and I will take the convenience of it any day over the perceived enjoyment of a manual.

I might be losing a second off 0-60 or whatever because of it, but the pleasure it is to drive far outweighs that.

I do agree that the 318 is underpowered, but some people just want a nice looking car that's comfortable to drive. No offence, but sometimes I think you should remove your enthusiast's hat, and think about what your every day person might want.

unkel

E92 wrote: »

with a proper gearbox than a gearbox for those too lazy to use their left foot:)!

Don't get stuck in the past, old man. Next thing you'd tell us is that synchromesh was the invention of the devil?

tc20

@ OP - congrats on your new car.

as many have said already, auto is the way forward. I have previously owned a Honda Accord auto, also with tiptronic. I have always thought tiptronic mostly to be an unneccessary gadget. You might play with it for 5minutes, then just leave it in D and away you go.
I currently drive an old Merc, again an auto box.

Having scanned through the posts on this thread, and i hope i'm not being presumptious when i say this but i didn't see anyone post it, but learn to forget about your left leg when driving an auto. It is a normal reaction coming from a manual to an auto, to use your left leg for braking.

Happy motoring

Eoin

tc20 wrote: »

Having scanned through the posts on this thread, and i hope i'm not being presumptious when i say this but i didn't see anyone post it, but learn to forget about your left leg when driving an auto. It is a normal reaction coming from a manual to an auto, to use your left leg for braking.

I actually found it very easy to switch over - maybe a day or two of consciously planting my left foot to the far left of the foot well. On the other hand, it did take me a few moments to figure out why I kept stalling my wife's manual car a couple of weeks ago.

E92

unkel wrote: »

Don't get stuck in the past, old man. Next thing you'd tell us is that synchromesh was the invention of the devil?

Give me just a little bit of credit - I like DSG type boxes to the point I can't make up my mind whether I'd want one over a manual box or not:).

DSG is the future of gearboxes in non hybrid cars anyway, with elements that please both people who like proper boxes and those who like automatic gearboxes.

@eoin_s: suffice to say I don't agree about them being more pleasurable. They're slower and they use more fuel. That reduces pleasure to me, I don't really see how it can do otherwise. Yes it's more relaxing but so is sitting in the passenger's seat. If I'm in the driver's seat then I want to do the driving, not the car doing the driving for me. And basically driving slush boxes feel like that.

I have no problem with people wanting automatic gearboxes. But i really don't think advising someone to go for a 118 bhp petrol with a slush box is a good idea, after all as auto box fans will tell you, you need a big and/or diesel engine for them to be really good, not an underpowered 1.9 petrol.

Don't get me wrong, the E46 is a great car, but getting a 4 cylinder model AND a manual gearbox is removing the E46's entire raison d'etre IMO.

Eoin

E92 wrote: »

@eoin_s: suffice to say I don't agree about them being more pleasurable. They're slower and they use more fuel. That reduces pleasure to me, I don't really see how it can do otherwise. Yes it's more relaxing but so is sitting in the passenger's seat. If I'm in the driver's seat then I want to do the driving, not the car doing the driving for me. And basically driving slush boxes feel like that.

It reduces pleasure for people who want to "really drive" the car. Having a relaxing drive from A to B is what counts for other people - how can people not get that?

As I said, having a relaxing drive in traffic and sport mode when I want it, more than makes up for any perceived lack of involvement in the driving experience.

rebel.ranter

E92 wrote: »

....And the OP is looking at a 1.9 litre 3 series, a car that's horrendously underpowered with a proper gearbox, and is no doubt even slower with a "I find using my left foot and hand too much of a pain" lazymatic box....

I normally agree with most of what you say on here, however its not always about power for most people. I don't think this engine gearbox combo would be less gutless than a 1.4L Ford Focus or similar. In order for BMW to survive & be in position to manufacture the cars that enthusiasts wan to drive it must support that by building cars like the 1.9L auto 3 series. Maybe not the ultimate driving machine but I'd still argue that it is a bit better than your Focus/Corolla/etc.