Angie jolie buys knife for her six year old son

lostinnappies

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/13102008/5/jolie-s-buying-knife-six-year-old-son-0.html

Imagine a six year old child in charge of a dangerous weapon. Makes me ill to even think of it. With all her money if she is so worried about his defence .... hire a bodyguard instead of potentially sending him to jail for attacking another student. Ridiculus:eek:

Nevyn

If he was living in some countires he would have 3 years of martial arts training already.
He is a high profile child and does need to learn to look after himself.
A knife is not just a 'dangerous weapon', really there was a time that age 7 was normal for boys to get a pen knife.

stovelid

Thaedydal wrote: »

A knife is not just a 'dangerous weapon', really there was a time that age 7 was normal for boys to get a pen knife.

LOL. It's true when you think of it. Everyone had a swiss army knife (or at least a knock off one) when I was a kid.

peanuthead

yeah but times have changed, its not right a child having a pen knife unless he is on some boy scout trip. Never mind him being able to use it on another child, people who carry knives etc... are more likely to be attacked with their own 'weapon' anyway.

b3t4

The full article. http://www.wmagazine.com/celebrities/2008/11/brad_pitt_angelina_jolie

Snippet from it:

Every family has its unique rites of passage, those generational milestones that mark a child’s growth and remind parents of their own similar experiences, years earlier. In the Jolie-Pitt household, one such event is the day a kid begins collecting daggers. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt’s seven-year-old son, Maddox, like many boys his age, has lately developed a fondness for guns and knives, and Jolie proudly notes that the predilection runs in the family.

“My mom took me to buy my first daggers when I was 11 or 12,” she recalls. “And I’ve already bought Maddox some things. We take him to a special shop.” She emphasizes that the knife blades are dulled so they’re not dangerous, and that the purchases are accompanied by discussions about violence. But, she says, “we also talk about samurais and about the idea of defending someone as good. We talk about everything.”

A.

lostinnappies

Even a dulled blade can kill someone. Carrying a weapon like that on your persons is illegal in some countries for a reason.... if he doesnt have it he cant hurt anyone, if he does the potential is there. Im sorry but as the legal age for criminal responsibility is 12 years (in this country) I dont even think the law is saying that a child is able to determine right from wrong until this age (exceptions obviously) so i dont know why her child should be any different... if he needs to protect himself then send him to self defence classes its a better solution all around. He may not always have a knife on him but he will always have his self defence. Lord knows she can afford it.

raven136

why the fcuk do people care what other people do with their kids.the knife is not for protection,they have enough bodyguards etc for that.
Its not for us to judge other peoples skills or ideas as parents.
Also as someone else has pointed out as kids years ago most people did things like this.
We fished,had pen knifes,climbed trees and hunted in fields as kids and now if a parent does any of those he/she is accused by certain people of being a bad parent.
People are too bloody worried about what may happen these days and not letting kids discover things and do fun rhings as they grow up.

The Bollox

raven136 wrote: »

why the fcuk do people care what other people do with their kids.the knife is not for protection,they have enough bodyguards etc for that.
Its not for us to judge other peoples skills or ideas as parents.
Also as someone else has pointed out as kids years ago most people did things like this.
We fished,had pen knifes,climbed trees and hunted in fields as kids and now if a parent does any of those he/she is accused by certain people of being a bad parent.
People are too bloody worried about what may happen these days and not letting kids discover things and do fun rhings as they grow up.

too true. I think mine was the last generation of kids who could go out, explore, scrape your knees and blah blah blah. we were warned of course about men with candy, but we were allowed to do things for ourselves. people are too afraid to allow their kids to do this nowadays because every second story on the news is about a killing/raping/abduction and it scares the bejasus out of the parents.

I don't blame the parents, I blame the availability of information. ignorance is bliss

Nevyn

peanuthead wrote: »

yeah but times have changed, its not right a child having a pen knife unless he is on some boy scout trip. Never mind him being able to use it on another child, people who carry knives etc... are more likely to be attacked with their own 'weapon' anyway.

Only if they are an idiot and brandish it and have it take off them.

Look some people see knifes as dangerous weapons some people see them as tools. I see them as a tool and have made sure both my kids know how to use a knife to cut things, how to care for a blade and how to clean it and how not to use it.

If you don't agree that children should be taught to use and respect knives then fine don't give them to your kids.

raven136

parents have to take the blame too.If you stopped and thought about it you would realise how stupid it is not to allow your kid cycle a bike on his own etc.
More likely to be killed in a car crash than be abducted as a kid.

The papers and 24 hour rolling news all need shocking stories to sell but the facts dont back up the constant putting our kids in cotton wool.

If a child carries a blunt knife it doesnt mean he turns into freddie and attacks other kids or gets attacked himself.This is not east london or compton for christ sake.
A kid can go to the woods and carve his name or cut up a branch,think he is a supehero and come home.
I he messes with the knife or fishing rod or whatever, then he loses it,end of discussion.

oh well , okay

Now if he had a knife and his pyjamas on in the afternoon then we'd all be rightly screwed .

lostinnappies

raven136 wrote: »

why the fcuk do people care what other people do with their kids.the knife is not for protection,they have enough bodyguards etc for that.
Its not for us to judge other peoples skills or ideas as parents.
Also as someone else has pointed out as kids years ago most people did things like this.
We fished,had pen knifes,climbed trees and hunted in fields as kids and now if a parent does any of those he/she is accused by certain people of being a bad parent.
People are too bloody worried about what may happen these days and not letting kids discover things and do fun rhings as they grow up.

Lets see you say that when some ill informed parent gives their 6 year old a knife after reading the article and stabbs another child in their class. What if was your child (im just assuming here that you have children). Needless to say there are a lot of stupid people out there that copy their so called "icons".

And riding their bike is completly different. A knife has only one purpose ... to cut. What they cut is up to the child... which imho is always a bad idea. My cousin was given a knife (like most at that age) at around 7 years old for scouts. He proceeded to cut every electrical wire in his room and got himself electricute.

Nevyn

You can't stop people from being idiots and that applies to both parents and children.
Any idiot who does something cos a celb does it is an idiot.
Any parent that gives a child a knife with out the proper rules and guide lines is an idiot.
This includes butter knifes and other table flatwear.

Thaedydal

Thaedydal wrote: »

Only if they are an idiot and brandish it and have it take off them.

Look some people see knifes as dangerous weapons some people see them as tools. I see them as a tool and have made sure both my kids know how to use a knife to cut things, how to care for a blade and how to clean it and how not to use it.

If you don't agree that children should be taught to use and respect knives then fine don't give them to your kids.

+1 Thanks Thaedydal!

Knives are NOT weapons - the word "weapon" implies intent to harm. 99.99% of people who own and use knives use them as multifunctional tools.

So long as the parent imparts the knowledge and training to the child, no harm should be done.

Scaremongering by saying things like kids are going to stab other kids is just irresponsible.

I received my first folding penknife when I was about six. Granted, it was blunted, but I was shown how and when it was to be used - i.e not at all, most of the time.

I was a member of Cubs / Scouts throughout my childhood / teenage years. In that time, most members had knives of some sort, and through proper training by our leaders, no harm ever came to anybody.

Just to underline my main point:

"Knives are NOT weapons"!!!!

metrovelvet

I suspect people are reacting more to the fact that it's Angelina Jolie who has done this, and they would have a similar reaction if say someone like Courtney Love bought peanut or whatever her son's name is a knife.

No one would think twice if Ben Affleck or some other "harmless" person did the same thing.

nesf

Blah, I had a knife at that age. The knife isn't a problem if the kid is taught to respect it.

stovelid

A kid can kill another kid with any number of supposedly harmless, legal implements if they wished to. Do we stop kids using cutlery unsupervised. Or playing with lengths of pipe?

I ( and lots of kids) had penknives when I was growing up. I was brought up in a place that would be regarded as very rough, and I certainly don't remember any stabbing epidemics in that age group during the 80s.

Mena

lostinnappies wrote: »

Even a dulled blade can kill someone. Carrying a weapon like that on your persons is illegal in some countries for a reason.... if he doesnt have it he cant hurt anyone,

If he does not have a knife he can't hurt anyone? Seriously? Someone predisposed to using a knife against another individual will compensate with something else if there is no knife present. Their hands (fists) for example.

Knives don't kill people, people kill people. (Sorry )

lostinnappies

Mena wrote: »

If he does not have a knife he can't hurt anyone? Seriously? Someone predisposed to using a knife against another individual will compensate with something else if there is no knife present. Their hands (fists) for example.

Knives don't kill people, people kill people. (Sorry )

Its much easier to kill a person with one swip using a knife then it is with your fists.

Why would any parent trust a child (and he is a child) of 6/7 to be responsible. I mean just look at this thread, and thats the ones you hear about.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055391266

Im not saying "knifes are bad, dont give them to you children at all" what im saying is at that age children do stupid things no matter how much you educate them, or teach them to respect knifes and other people. I mean I personally know of a boy of 10 who accidently shot and killed his father. He had been taught to respect guns and never pick up a gun unless his father said to. He unfortunatly for both involved, did what a child does best..... something stupid. Had he not been exposed to guns he would never have shot his father, nor would he have to live his entire life with the guilt.

I guess when it comes to my own children my belief is prevention is better then cure. When they become 18 and want to pursue whatever takes their fancy thats fine ... there is nothing i can do about it then. But until they reach that age i will never allow knifes, guns, cross bows or any other weapon in our house. Yes he could grab a kitchen knife .... but at least I did my best.

lostinnappies

lostinnappies wrote: »

Why would any parent trust a child (and he is a child) of 6/7 to be responsible. I mean just look at this thread, and thats the ones you hear about.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055391266

This thread contradicts your point (and has nothing to do with the safe handling of knives or the instruction of the same). As another poster stated, ""people kill people" - if a child is sadistic, it is a completely different issue than if they are allowed to use knives.

lostinnappies wrote: »

Im not saying "knifes are bad, dont give them to you children at all" what im saying is at that age children do stupid things no matter how much you educate them, or teach them to respect knifes and other people.

I completely disagree - children are not universally "stupid" as you seem to put it. Yes, some children will not be able to handle the responsibility of handling a knife at a young age. It depends from child to child. Personally I believe that this stems from how the child is brought up to that point.

lostinnappies wrote: »

I mean I personally know of a boy of 10 who accidently shot and killed his father. He had been taught to respect guns and never pick up a gun unless his father said to. He unfortunatly for both involved, did what a child does best..... something stupid. Had he not been exposed to guns he would never have shot his father, nor would he have to live his entire life with the guilt.

Without knowing the circumstances of this, I don't feel fully able to comment on it. Obviously it is a terrible tragedy.
However in a general point, part of instruction is to be responsible as a teacher. A situation like this should not arise if the child is being taught properly.

lostinnappies wrote: »

I guess when it comes to my own children my belief is prevention is better then cure. When they become 18 and want to pursue whatever takes their fancy thats fine ... there is nothing i can do about it then.

As a parent, that's your prerogative. Personally I don't agree with you at all, but it is not my place to criticise you in this regard - my posting this message is not about parenting so much as that knives are perfectly safe if handled properly, and that this is a knowledge that can be imparted to young children.

lostinnappies wrote: »

But until they reach that age i will never allow knifes, guns, cross bows or any other weapon in our house. Yes he could grab a kitchen knife .... but at least I did my best.

A final point. Please stop referring to knives / guns etc, as "weapons". As I previously pointed out, the term "weapon" implies the intent to cause harm. I appreciate that I'm harping on here (sorry to the other posters on this forum) but I feel that my point needs to be understood.

It is irresponsible to refer to knives and guns as weapons. Knives are tools. And many, many (many!) people, including myself use guns for the purposes of target shooting.

lostinnappies

Deleted User wrote: »

A final point. Please stop referring to knives / guns etc, as "weapons". As I previously pointed out, the term "weapon" implies the intent to cause harm. I appreciate that I'm harping on here (sorry to the other posters on this forum) but I feel that my point needs to be understood.

It is irresponsible to refer to knives and guns as weapons. Knives are tools. And many, many (many!) people, including myself use guns for the purposes of target shooting.

A gun is nothing short of a weapon .... at least a knife can be used as a usful tool by and adult but the only use of a gun is to kill or mame or protect by the threat of one or both of the above. Therefore it is a weapon... there is no two ways about it. To say its not imho is the irresponsible thing to say.

"A weapon is a tool used either in hunting, or attack or defence in combat for the purpose of subduing enemy personnel, or to destroy enemy weapons, equipment and defensive structures through application of force. A weapon is therefore a mechanical device that changes the direction or magnitude of a force.[1] In general, they can be defined as the simplest mechanisms that use mechanical advantage (also called leverage) to multiply force.[2]

In attack, weapons may be used to threaten by direct contact or by use of projectiles. Weapons can be as simple as a club, or as complex as an intercontinental ballistic missile. Metaphorically anything capable of being used to damage, even psychologically, can be referred to as a weapon." wikipedia

TargetWidow

Every child is different.

Some six year olds who have plenty of good role models for how to use these TOOLS (ie parents who actually spend time with them) and spend time out in nature have a positive outlet for their energy and understand that what the knife is for. I had a blunted pen knife as a child as did my husband. Despite years of being severely bullied in school I never once thought of stabbing anyone! The problem with children harming other children is nothing to do with the so called weapons being used. Those children will do harm regardless of the availability of knives or guns. They are disturbed individuals. It's far more to do with the likes of Power Rangers babysitting children who should be out romping around in the fresh air with their parents and other children. They think aggression is cool and I see them "play fight" far more than is normal. I have 5 brothers and none of them ever acted the pup half as much as your average Power Ranger toddler these days.
Other six year olds are a bit thick and shouldn't have spoons never mind knives:D
For the record, there are several guns in my house, none of which I use to kill anything more live than poor little clay pidgeons or poor little paper targets.

lostinnappies

lostinnappies wrote: »

A gun is nothing short of a weapon .... at least a knife can be used as a usful tool by and adult but the only use of a gun is to kill or mame

Ok point 1 - I'm glad you now concede that knives are not weapons!

Point 2 - Knives can be used by children equally as well as adults.

Point 3 - The only use of a gun is NOT to maim and kill! Please refer to my last post, guns are used by many people who target shoot.

TargetWidow wrote: »

For the record, there are several guns in my house, none of which I use to kill anything more live than poor little clay pidgeons or poor little paper targets.

+1 Thank you, TargetWidow! You reinforce my points and show that I'm not alone in my (valid) points.

Lostinnappies, please try to understand my point of view. I respect yours (you don't want to expose your children to knives or guns). Please respect my knowledge on this matter - I wouldn't post on this forum otherwise. I want people to understand that these tools should NOT be viewed as weapons.

Other readers, sorry for getting off the point / off topic - it wasn't my intention, but I strongly feel that my points need to be understood.

Knowledge is the basis for understanding, and by understanding we stop propagating views such as "knives are evil" just because we may be ignorant of their use.

lostinnappies

Like i said before, i never siad a knife was evil. But this is the parenting forum so all of my replies would be looking at it from a parents point of view. Literally, (using dictionaries etc) guns are classed as weapons. Legally these are classed as weapons. The fact that they are used for target practice dose not change the fact that they ARE weapons. What they are used for is a personal matter. Adults can tell the difference between right and wrong, if they want to use knives/guns whatever thats great .... but seeing as its in the parenting board and it is about giving a 6 year old a knife, and having seen some of the most educated people i knew at that age doing the most stupid of things .... i really cant see the good in it. That is my opinion and you are intitled to disagree.. but lets call a spade a spade.

TargetWidow

I do really think it's partly a cultural problem and partly the thing about the difference between the word 'weapon' and word 'tool' - because I really believe (and I'm not just using semantics here) that the very IDEA of the knife as a "weapon" itself is part of the problem. I believe some of these teenagers who stab each other (particularly in East London) are just frightened little kids who think of knives as weapons instead of thinking of them as tools. They haven't been brought up around knives, i.e. shown how to make a whistle from a piece of wood, how to use it for fishing ,how to care for it and maintain it, how not to cut yourself with it etc.
I wouldn't personally wait till someone is 18 to allow them to learn responsible handling (having said that six is a bit young in my book too!) of such tools. An untrained eighteen year old is probably more likely to abuse a knife than a responsible ten year old. Sure they cant keep their cars between the ditches at that age - now theres a potential weapon, a car in the hands of your average 18 yr old male!!
Look at the Swiss. A Swiss man doesn't consider himself a man unless he has his trusty Swiss Army knife, they give them to the kids at about 10 and the incidence of stabbing is virtually zero, but ask any Swiss person and they will talk about the knife as a tool and not as a weapon; (but government also pumps millions every year into funding for children and teenagers resources so the likelihood of them feeling under threat is very slim too.)
When my daughter is old enough (as I said earlier, every child has different maturity levels so I wont be setting an age limit now) her Dad will bring her fishing and if she chooses stalking and hunting. She'll probably go camping (if she doesn't take after me and insist on room service!) and I would love her to join girl guides or brownies. All of these experiences will expose her to responsible usage of different tools. Apart from that she will be taught conflict resolution skills and the ability to accurately identify and express her emotions. Our aim and intention is to produce a well balanced, experienced individual who will not need to go looking for a knife to sort someone out in the schoolyard or elsewhere.
I refuse to let the media frighten me into believing that the world is a more dangerous place than it really is. All that does is sell newspapers and primetime telly advertising and keep Governments in power who purport to 'protect' us from threats that don't exist.

lostinnappies

lostinnappies wrote: »

That is my opinion and you are intitled to disagree.. but lets call a spade a spade.

Ok, at this point I'm going to bow out. As you've pointed out, this is a parenting forum, and I was trying to get across the point that giving a child a knife, and the proper instruction with it, can be perfectly safe.

My other, very valid point was that these are tools, not weapons.

However, your above quoted comment leads me to believe that you're not open to this point of view.

TargetWidow, your above post is one of the most sensible I've ever read, and encapsulates my point of view more eloquently than I could ever have put it. It's a pleasure to see that some parents don't blind themselves to a rigid and narrow point of view, and I genuinely believe that yourself and your husband will raise well balanced, responsible adults.


Finally, to call a "spade a spade" , knives are NOT weapons!!!

Thank you to other users of this forum for your patience. Hopefully I'll become a more regular user of this forum in the next year or so.

lostinnappies

If you had actually read my post properly you would have noticed that I did not say that a knife was a weapon. Fair enough they can be used as tools, but 6 is too young imho. What i did say is that

Literally ... guns ... are classed as weapons not tools,
Legally .... guns... are classed as weapons not tools,

What they are ACTUALLY used for makes no difference, they are weapons. The fact you hit a tin can or a target board does not change the fact that it is a weapon and i feel it is you who refuse to see the FACT that i am not the only one who considers them a weapon... the english dictionary, the legal system etc.

Instead of getting all riled up about the fact that some one dissagrees with you perhaps you should have a look at what they say and consider the possabillity that they may be right..... after all i did consider yours and agree with you that a knife is also a tool and depends on the user.

dresden8

lostinnappies wrote: »

If you had actually read my post properly you would have noticed that I did not say that a knife was a weapon. Fair enough they can be used as tools, but 6 is too young imho. What i did say is that

Literally ... guns ... are classed as weapons not tools,
Legally .... guns... are classed as weapons not tools,

What they are ACTUALLY used for makes no difference, they are weapons. The fact you hit a tin can or a target board does not change the fact that it is a weapon and i feel it is you who refuse to see the FACT that i am not the only one who considers them a weapon... the english dictionary, the legal system etc.

Instead of getting all riled up about the fact that some one dissagrees with you perhaps you should have a look at what they say and consider the possabillity that they may be right..... after all i did consider yours and agree with you that a knife is also a tool and depends on the user.

Legally guns are classified as firearms. And putting fact in capitals proves nothing. FACT!!!!

lostinnappies

dresden8 wrote: »

Legally guns are classified as firearms. And putting fact in capitals proves nothing. FACT!!!!

Ya thats like saying some one who is brown haired is actually a brunette. Guns/firearms are legally & literally classed as weapons. Here's the facts.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/firearm?view=uk
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/gun?view=uk

The term weapons includes numerous items that can cause death or injury, including firearms, explosives, chemicals, and nuclear material. Because weapons pose a danger to the safety and well-being of individuals and communities, federal, state, and local statutes regulate the possession and use of weapons.
Taken from a legal dictionary

dresden8

lostinnappies wrote: »

Ya thats like saying some one who is brown haired is actually a brunette. Guns/firearms are legally & literally classed as weapons. Here's the facts.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/firearm?view=uk
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/gun?view=uk

The term weapons includes numerous items that can cause death or injury, including firearms, explosives, chemicals, and nuclear material. Because weapons pose a danger to the safety and well-being of individuals and communities, federal, state, and local statutes regulate the possession and use of weapons.
Taken from a legal dictionary

Would you not take it from primary legislation which defines it as a firearm. FACT!!!

It's in capitals, bold and italic.

Talliesin

There are two types of animals in the world. Those that use knives and those that don't.

The most evolved those that don't manage is climbing up trees and throwing their own faeces at each other.

It's good to be a knife-using species.

[Posted from a computer fixed three times with the use of a knife].

lostinnappies

dresden8 wrote: »

Would you not take it from primary legislation which defines it as a firearm. FACT!!!

It's in capitals, bold and italic.

Now you're just being flippant.:rolleyes:
A firearm is a general term used to discribe all weapons which projects either single or multiple projectiles at high velocity through a controlled explosion. This would include a bazooka ... you would hardly call it a gun. Firearm is not technically a classification more then it is a term of reference for all of the above.FACT

Nevyn

Quit it with the fact nonsense, all of you.

dresden8

lostinnappies wrote: »

Now you're just being flippant.:rolleyes:
A firearm is a general term used to discribe all weapons which projects either single or multiple projectiles at high velocity through a controlled explosion. This would include a bazooka ... you would hardly call it a gun. Firearm is not technically a classification more then it is a term of reference for all of the above.FACT

I would agree with you if you were right. Legally a gun is a firearm, not a weapon, as you stated erroneously.

Oddly enough I agree with you on this one, 6 year olds shouldn't be given bazookas.

lostinnappies

The Firearms Act 1968 defines a firearm as:
"a lethal barreled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged"

Nevyn

Any more talk on guns will be considered off topic and I will be handing out infraction.

TargetWidow

To give Angelina and Brad their dues they do seem to be putting quite a bit of thought and effort into parenting in general. I saw an interview with her and although her approach would be seen as many as alternative, she does seem to think things through because she's a bright woman. I imagine her rickety relationship with her father has prompted her to try as hard as she can to be a good parent to all her kids as the interview in which I saw her had her singing her mothers praises and recognising the amount of time and effort her mother put into all of the choices she made for bringing Angelina up outside of mainstream education.
I cant see a child brought up in that environment going astray to be honest with anything other than the usual drink and drugs that seem to accompany the celebrity lifestyle.
If it were me I'd probably give him a catapult instead with stern instructions about making sure of your backstop behind targets! Do kids have catapults anymore? Or conkers?:D

metrovelvet

After following this thread I decided to let my 16 month old son play with a bladeless butter knife at dinner,as he loves sticks and anything in his hands, supervised. I confiscated it once he started making too much noise with it [has the soul of a percussionist]. I though a lot about what the pro and anti knife people said here, and decided it would be better if he approached these things with the philosophy that these are tools, and like any other tool, is dangerous when you don't have the skill to use them, and he would therefore more likely use it as a tool rather than a weapon. Right now he sees it more as a drum stick, so we wont be doing that again.

And ultimately, anything can be turned into a weapon, baseball bats, aerosol sprays, forks, fire, hammers, irons, anything.