End-Time Delusion

wolfsbane

Paul said there is to come in the very last days a delusion:
2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

From this text we can tell it is a strong delusion, overtaking all the unbelievers. Seems to me to be the one Christ foretold:
Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

I'd like to ask the Christians especially what their thoughts are on the nature and circumstances of this delusion, for example:
Is it universal or confined to Israel?
Is it religious or anti-religious in nature?
How should we prepare to protect ourselves from its seduction?

santing

Wolfsbane,
The delusion in 2 Thessalonians is directly connected with "the coming of lawless one" and is send to "them" not to "you" or "us."

The delusions in Matthew are more generic imho.

As a believer in the rapture, I don't think we need to prepare ourselves for the delution of 2 Thessalonians. This is a message to warn those with who will be left behind.

kelly1

Wolfsbane, I believe the Antichrist will probably appear in Israel claiming to be the long awaited Messiah of the Jews.

But who knows? Best not to worry about these things and just keep yourself ready for the coming of the Lord always keeping in mind the fact that Our Lord will come in power and glory for all to see. That way no earthly man will fool us.

God bless,
Noel.

wolfsbane

santing said:

Wolfsbane,
The delusion in 2 Thessalonians is directly connected with "the coming of lawless one" and is send to "them" not to "you" or "us."

The delusion will be believed by 'them', not 'us' - that is true. But it will come when 'we' are still here. Which is why Paul deals with it.

He could have said "Don't worry about the day of Christ - you'll never see it, for you will be raptured away 7 years beforehand." He didn't say that because the Church will live to see both the rise of Antichrist and the Day of Christ:
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Compare with:
2 Thessalonians 1: 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Note - the Church is rescued and their persecutors eternally punished when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, Same day for both.

As a believer in the rapture, I don't think we need to prepare ourselves for the delution of 2 Thessalonians. This is a message to warn those with who will be left behind.

That is the most dangerous aspect of the 'left behind' theory. It leaves the Church unprepared for the signs and lying wonders the Man of Sin will provide. It will cause great grief for the Christians who are living at that time. No wonder the Lord told us:
Mark 13:21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

wolfsbane

kelly1 wrote: »

Wolfsbane, I believe the Antichrist will probably appear in Israel claiming to be the long awaited Messiah of the Jews.

But who knows? Best not to worry about these things and just keep yourself ready for the coming of the Lord always keeping in mind the fact that Our Lord will come in power and glory for all to see. That way no earthly man will fool us.

God bless,
Noel.

Yes, that sounds like the likely scenario to me too. And I agree that we have no need to worry if we keep in mind that Christ's coming will be unmistakeable - no maybe yes, maybe no; no welcome by the wicked. Instead, the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the living Christians raptured to meet him; His descent to earth with the holy angels, in flaming fire bringing the wicked to destruction. THAT will be an unmistakeable sight.

That is the Day we are to be looking for and hastening on:
2 Peter 3: 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Maranatha!

wolfsbane

A few more thoughts on the Last Days.

1. The timing of the Rapture.

Three terms used of the return of the Lord:
The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
Our gathering together to Him
The day of Christ

I take it you will agree that that Day in v3 is the same as the day of Christ in v2.

Our gathering together to Him I take refers to the rapture of the saints.

This event cannot occur until the apostasy, the falling away, comes first.

Conclusion: No 'anytime rapture'.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

kelly1

Wolfsbane, do you believe the Rapture to be a different event to the General Judgment at the end of time when Christ comes in glory to separate the sheep from the goats?

Why do you believe in the Rapture?

God bless,
Noel.

wolfsbane

kelly1 wrote: »

Wolfsbane, do you believe the Rapture to be a different event to the General Judgment at the end of time when Christ comes in glory to separate the sheep from the goats?

Why do you believe in the Rapture?

God bless,
Noel.

Noel, I believe the Rapture is what happens to Christians when Christ returns - they are caught up to meet Him in the air. He immediately descends to destroy the wicked and bring all to the General Judgement.

So it is all one event - rescue for the saints, retribution for the wicked, followed by the Judgement:
2 Thessalonians 1:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

I don't believe in a Rapture separated from Christ's coming by 7 or 3.5 years. That is a modern idea.

studiorat

kelly1 wrote: »

Wolfsbane, I believe the Antichrist will probably appear in Israel claiming to be the long awaited Messiah of the Jews.

But who knows?

Maybe the Antichrist wants you to think that...

kelly1

wolfsbane wrote: »

Noel, I believe the Rapture is what happens to Christians when Christ returns - they are caught up to meet Him in the air. He immediately descends to destroy the wicked and bring all to the General Judgement.

So it is all one event - rescue for the saints, retribution for the wicked, followed by the Judgement:

I don't believe in a Rapture separated from Christ's coming by 7 or 3.5 years. That is a modern idea.

Thanks for the clarification. To me the word Rapture means a false notion whereby the "elect" are raptured away while the rest of us are left to endure the Tribulation. So it's a word I don't use. I refer to the 2nd coming of Christ and the General Judgment.

CerebralCortex

kelly1 wrote: »

Wolfsbane, I believe the Antichrist will probably appear in Israel claiming to be the long awaited Messiah of the Jews.

But who knows? Best not to worry about these things and just keep yourself ready for the coming of the Lord always keeping in mind the fact that Our Lord will come in power and glory for all to see. That way no earthly man will fool us.

God bless,
Noel.

Shermer's Last Law.

PDN

kelly1 wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. To me the word Rapture means a false notion whereby the "elect" are raptured away while the rest of us are left to endure the Tribulation. So it's a word I don't use. I refer to the 2nd coming of Christ and the General Judgment.

Some believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, some in a post-tribulation rapture, and some in a mid-tribulation rapture.

I was recently reading Surprised by Hope by Tom Wright (Bishop of Durham and one of the finest biblical scholars alive today). He compares the Rapture to where a dignitary would visit a city and a huge crowd would come out of the city to welcome him. Then they would all return into the city together.