Someone here connected to mermaid?

Grafter

Apologies if my memory is failing me again, but I think I remember someone here having an association with Mermaid poker?

A grumpy (soon to be ex) customer is posting vitriol on bonuswhores and every other forum he can find.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Grafter wrote: »

Apologies if my memory is failing me again, but I think I remember someone here having an association with Mermaid poker?

A grumpy (soon to be ex) customer is posting vitriol on bonuswhores and every other forum he can find.

c4queen is ur girl

cooker3

You mean this guy?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56/medium-stakes-pl-nl/mermaidpoker-boss-network-stole-2-000-me-318355/

C4Queen

Hi all!

I have replayed in some of his spamming therads all over, but fighting on the internet is what it is.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54/poker-beats-brags-variance/mermaidpoker-boss-network-stole-2-000-me-318333/

this is the mayour one, i got no problem pointing it our to you lads, as we have absolutley nothing to hide here.

He is locked down, for good reasons, done so by our F&S department, anyone with just a little comon sense understand that locking a player down entirly from the whole network is not a decison made on small things.

And we can never put our hands on any players money so its rediculouse to say we stole em :-)

anyway, i will make an official statment tomorrow, far from that i just hope people are clever enought to think for them selfs.

Best regards
anna

mdwexford

[ ] Knows what spamming is


Sounds like the guy has a case from reading the 2+2 thread to me.

Grafter

To be fair, it is spamming. He has posted on every poker forum he knows of (but I would do the same in his shoes if I felt I had been wronged).

I have posted on 2+2 asking that C4Queen be given time to fully research the background. As I said there, it's nothing to do with me, but I did draw her attention to it via this thread.

I also note that the complainant says he does not play heads up, which is where most security/chip dumping problems seem to occur http://www.bonuswhores.com/poker-forum/viewtopic.php?t=30004

C4Queen

Thanks Grafter, most appreciated dear, but we where actually a wear of the "spamming" on all forums before boards brought it up, but replaying on it often just making things worse.
However i will make an official statment on all forums later on today.

He is locked down for serious things that i doubt any pokerplayer would like to be up against on a table. Things that we cant and will not discuss in forums.

Saftey is important, and these regulations are there for a reason.

And definatley no smoke without a fire, and anyone that are in this buisness should really know that one dont get shut down for small things.

It could for sure been handled better information wise ect, from our part, but it landed on someones table that was not up to date with the procudure around these things or are the one normaly handle them, normally that would be me, but i was in Killarney having a good time with you all!

Best regards
Anna

carfax

Just got round to reading this now.

Hope its all ok Anna.

Stephen.

cardshark202

Seems strange that he would go to all this trouble if he was guilty of something. I think the least you could do would be to show the guy the hands where he apparently chip-dumped or whatever.

C4Queen

He has been presented hands, where he and the other account log in same time, sit straight at same table, lost a respectful sum to one of the parts, left and log out, both account at exact same time.

And it was on table with other players. These hands are not the whole information on why he is locked down, but a part of the decision. The dumping account has also been confirmed as linked to a very high number of fraud accounts and there are also clear indicators of fraud visible in the registration/access data.

The email correspondence he posted in his first post are changed, he taken away both hands and explenations that my colleque gave him.

@ stephen, thanks dear, yea am ok, just difficult to defend when one not are allowed to give out all information :-)

thanks all boardies that give me credit on 2+2, i appreciate it!

zap27

what does chip dumping mean?

Grafter

zap27 wrote: »

what does chip dumping mean?

It's where one player or account very deliberately loses to another.

In a lot of cases the "losing" player has either hacked into an innocent players account or has loaded the account with stolen credit card details etc.

They then dump the chips ie give the funds to another account so they can be withdrawn.

It's money laundering essentially.

C4Queen

Hi all. (this is the statment from our side in this and i post it here as well)

Fighting in an internet forum is probably one of the most *"never ending story" one can do, but I really feel we need to get an end to this.

We are fully a wear that getting the "term and condition" thrown back at you is frustrating as a player, we are all poker players at Mermaidpoker and live very close to this industry and our players and try to help them as much as we can. This specific case has not been handled to complete satisfaction from our side, and for that we are of course very sorry and our routines are looked into, but it don’t change the outcome, witch would been the same. The account holder was presented explanation and facts at early stage, witch he choose to left out in the email correspondence he posted.

The decision are made by F&S and its several factors involved to be making that decision and we need to have in mind that this is people that work with this every day for all the sites of Boss Media, and with lot of experience, and its all done to keep the gaming environment safe.

Its quite surprising that so many players don’t understand that to be shut down to play on a entire network is not just something that happen over nothing, its in many cases looked into for some time before doing so, and of course not by us since we have no access to those delicate information’s.

The skins in these incidents are the middle hand between the F&S and the player, and set to contact the player for an explanation and present to the F&S and then inform the player the outcome of the investigation. We did get an explanation from the player that I don’t think is fair to state here, too much of delicate information has already been put out in the open for no really use, we presented it to the F&S and they decided the account shall be locked until the chargeback time has passed.

Going on forums don’t help to get the account reinstated, the decision where taken already then and are not to be changed. We will do our best to get the money back to the player before the 6 months time, as we always try in these cases and I will personally try to get it released earlier; I do my best that is all I can promise.

As already explained, the two hands presented is absolutely not the main part of the decision, they are part of the whole decision, and there are accordingly to the F&S a lot more hands. Those two hands, far more then how they where played, are an example on the two players logged in exact same time, sat straight down on same table, lost a lot of funds in a few hands and then logged out, both accounts on same time. The dumping account has also been confirmed as linked to a very high number of fraud accounts and there are also clear indicators of fraud visible in the registration/access data. I agree that those two hands can be played like that over and over again, but other factors are along with lots of hands making the decision final from F&S. So it’s wrong to keep on bringing these two hands into things.

Normal ways of these situations are that the account is locked for 6 months, in order to prevent any chargeback to the card involved. Then if the card is not a case of charge back, the funds are released back to the account holder. In reality yes, the player in this case can of course be innocent, and it can all be just a coincident and he don’t know the dumping account at all, however the risk is judged by the department set to judge it and a lot of aspects are taken in consideration.

It is of course safe to play with Mermaidpoker, but there are regulations to follow in order to keep a fair gaming. And we have total respect for our F&S department in this.

Best regards

Team Mermaid

cardshark202

C4Queen wrote: »

He has been presented hands, where he and the other account log in same time, sit straight at same table, lost a respectful sum to one of the parts, left and log out, both account at exact same time.

And it was on table with other players. These hands are not the whole information on why he is locked down, but a part of the decision. The dumping account has also been confirmed as linked to a very high number of fraud accounts and there are also clear indicators of fraud visible in the registration/access data.

The email correspondence he posted in his first post are changed, he taken away both hands and explenations that my colleque gave him.

@ stephen, thanks dear, yea am ok, just difficult to defend when one not are allowed to give out all information :-)

thanks all boardies that give me credit on 2+2, i appreciate it!

Fair enough so. He's some chancer then

valor

C4Queen, I am one of the players in a hand posted by that guy on 2+2. In the hand history he posted, my hole cards are revealed in the hand history sent to him by support. My hand was not showdown in this hand, so how can sending a player a hand history giving him hidden hole card information ever be justified?

White Knight

valor wrote: »

C4Queen, I am one of the players in a hand posted by that guy on 2+2. In the hand history he posted, my hole cards are revealed in the hand history sent to him by support. My hand was not showdown in this hand, so how can sending a player a hand history giving him hidden hole card information ever be justified?

These details should never be sent to a player in ANY circumstance (other than showdown or own cards).

Ste05

The guy is making a pretty compelling case, my read of the situation is that the "dumping account" was probably filled with fraudulent funds from the info that it was linked to 20 other accounts, but those hands seriously show absolutely 0% evidence of any chip dumping, (the logging in and out could be a coincidence if it only happened once, I'd often stop playing when a fish left the table and logged out, logging in... ???) obviously if they're part of a larger selection of hands maybe (i.e. any hands that show actual dumping), but it seriously looks like the guy is innocent of any wrong doing as the case is currently outlined in the 2+2 BBV thread. (Although he's given permission to post other hands and his explanations and e-mails, so maybe there's more in the edited e-mails if you decide it'd be a good idea to post them)

But I'd say there could well be a chargeback on the Dumping account, but it still doesn't really prove that he was involved in the dumping. Just got lucky that some idiot was giving money away (happens alot) Very tricky spot for you c4, with your hands tied like this. Best of luck with the whole thing.

P.S. Don't bother explaining anything here to me, you have your hands full on 2+2 but I just thought I'd give you my 0.02c. It's not a Mermaid issue, it's a Boss issue so it's really out of your hands in the totality of it all.

C4Queen

Thanks lads!

As in regards to the hands that your in Valor, your absolutley right , they should never have been presented to the player, its a mistake from one of my colleques but also, a frustrated attempt to help the player as our hands are tied and he of course wants to know reasons and see proof.

The two hands are really small in the whole picture, accordingly to the F&S there are lots of hands.

Am truly also very sorry if an innocent player been stucked in the middle here, but its not much we can do, the chargeback time has to run and as many IPO 2007 players using cards with not their name on knows, it can take up to 6 months. Am trying my best, and i think those who knows me know i really feel for each issue and try to make the best, but its really hard to fight the whole F&S department along with keeping an eye on all these forums.

And yea my long nails and too quick typing on my laptop dont help :-) as i do spelling mistakes, not all are so forgiving as the irish boardies!

hep hep
anna

chatteau13

Hi, I am the guy from 2+2 and others.

First of all I would like to say that I have nothing against you Anna, but I have much against the company you represent and the whole Boss Network.

Here are few comments from your post:

"I have replayed in some of his spamming therads all over, but fighting on the internet is what it is."

You call it spamming, I call it justice. Do you honestly think I would have received any justice at all, without posting this? I told your representative on friday I would do it, if he didnt present any evidence. He didnt, so I posted. He had several days to present me with something. He just didnt.

"And we can never put our hands on any players money so its rediculouse to say we stole em :-)"

All I knew that my account was closed and it would never be opened again. That accounts stealing for me. Think about this happening to you...

"He is locked down, for good reasons, done so by our F&S department, anyone with just a little comon sense understand that locking a player down entirly from the whole network is not a decison made on small things."

I am not so sure about your F&S departments competense. I have told you that you can freely present any hand histories of mine to me or to forums worldwide.

Somewhere you accuse me of changing MermaidPokers e-mails. This is not true. That is only your companys representatives opinion. As you can see from my 2+2 posts, I have quite quickly postet every e-mail that I have received as well as the two convicting hand histories, as soon as I have received them.

That is propably why I don´t get any answers anymore to my e-mail (from Mermaid nor from Boss Network)...

I can´t be more honest than I have been. The money hasn´t been an issue for a long, long time.

I want a public apology from MermaidPoker and Boss Network.

C4Queen

chatteau13 wrote: »

Hi, I am the guy from 2+2 and others.

First of all I would like to say that I have nothing against you Anna, but I have much against the company you represent and the whole Boss Network.

Here are few comments from your post:

"I have replayed in some of his spamming therads all over, but fighting on the internet is what it is."

You call it spamming, I call it justice. Do you honestly think I would have received any justice at all, without posting this? I told your representative on friday I would do it, if he didnt present any evidence. He didnt, so I posted. He had several days to present me with something. He just didnt.

The fact you posting in forums are not changing anything, the decision where made before that. We are not allowed to give you anymore hands, we gave you a few, and after these where public posted by you the F&S refuses to give us anymore, as they are definatley not for anyone else eyes then involved persons. Evidence are not with us, they are held by F&S. I find it very odd you theraten him to spam forums unless you get evidence when its not us who can provide you with them. Besides you said yourself in the phone you used a freinds account on several occasions, thats not legal either..

"And we can never put our hands on any players money so its rediculouse to say we stole em :-)"

All I knew that my account was closed and it would never be opened again. That accounts stealing for me. Think about this happening to you...

It have happens to so many players on all different network, funds being frozzen in order to investigate ev. fraud. Its the way the system are build, and its there out of security for players, including yourself, how silly that now sound. And if all works out the fund be in your hands within the time it take for ev chargeback to be found, i explained this i think on 6-8 places..

"He is locked down, for good reasons, done so by our F&S department, anyone with just a little comon sense understand that locking a player down entirly from the whole network is not a decison made on small things."

I am not so sure about your F&S departments competense. I have told you that you can freely present any hand histories of mine to me or to forums worldwide.

No we cant, its against regulations, and since you straight post when we send to you, its out of option to even present you with your own cards.

Somewhere you accuse me of changing MermaidPokers e-mails. This is not true. That is only your companys representatives opinion. As you can see from my 2+2 posts, I have quite quickly postet every e-mail that I have received as well as the two convicting hand histories, as soon as I have received them.

That is propably why I don´t get any answers anymore to my e-mail (from Mermaid nor from Boss Network)...

I have emailed you today,14:39 (danish time) i have also conntacted and filled in our account manager at Boss Media with the case.

I can´t be more honest than I have been. The money hasn´t been an issue for a long, long time.

I want a public apology from MermaidPoker and Boss Network.

As i have already given to you in the email per today, i appoloqise very sincer that the issue has not been handled with more information and better typed emails then you have received. But i can not appoloqise for taken your money as we have not. Its lots of hands you been up against this same person, and even if you are inocent, he is linked to a whole group of fraudalent accounts, and you have won quite a lot of money from him sitting down at same time on tables, and lost in supersticious hands. coincident? could be, and i hope it is and your money will come back to you.

Only reason why i answer you here is out of respect for this forum that is concidered to be one of the really best and serious one and i have a lot of people in here i respect enourmously and look upon as close friends. I have decided to not reply any more threads as its pointless, no one reads proper anyway but make their own conclusions and are far more concerned of my spelling then the fact am doing all i can to help you. Anyone knowing me can grant i fight for the players all the time 100%.

Also i think the correct thing to do is to change your fight to be against boss instead of Mermaidpoker, so the heading you used in so many places that we stole money from you, are really out of order.

take care, you can reach me on my email, ac@mermaidpoker.com

anna

lolmermaidpoker

Im sorry C4, but if you've never played poker you'll probally never know how standard those hands are.

IE.---> (logon) buddylist, win money of fish, celebrate (logoff)

C4Queen

lolmermaidpoker wrote: »

Im sorry C4, but if you've never played poker you'll probally never know how standard those hands are.

IE.---> (logon) buddylist, win money of fish, celebrate (logoff)

pls read my statement before posting that. The two hands are such small input in the whole scenariou and if you bother to read you would know.

I`d say you have to play alot of hands to get up to the amount i played over the years. Trust me both me and my colleque have repetly told the F&S that those hands are nothing, but apparantley there are loads of more hands with same pattern. And all togheter with other things it is enough for a lock down.

White Knight

chatteau13 wrote: »

You call it spamming, I call it justice. Do you honestly think I would have received any justice at all, without posting this? I told your representative on friday I would do it, if he didnt present any evidence. He didnt, so I posted. He had several days to present me with something. He just didnt.


I want a public apology from MermaidPoker and Boss Network.

This is completely the wrong way to go about receiving "Justice".

If you have any issues with the site you should contact the independant regulator (Mermaid regulated by: http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/home.asp) who will investigate all issues and can make things happen if they think anything untoward has occured (which I do doubt - but you never know).

I have to admit if someone who has an issue is unwilling or does not go through the right channels, then I do wonder why they even come to these forums to "highlight" their issues.

chatteau13

White Knight wrote: »

This is completely the wrong way to go about receiving "Justice".

If you have any issues with the site you should contact the independant regulator (Mermaid regulated by: http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/home.asp) who will investigate all issues and can make things happen if they think anything untoward has occured (which I do doubt - but you never know).

I have to admit if someone who has an issue is unwilling or does not go through the right channels, then I do wonder why they even come to these forums to "highlight" their issues.

What if this had happened to you?

I was very, very patient for days. My account remained locked. No proof was presented to me. I told the representative (whom I didnt trust at this point at all), that he should provide me with evidence so that I could defend myself. If he didnt, I told him I would let the public know about my situation. That was the only thing I figured would have an affect on Boss/Mermaid. He didn´t.

Do you really think I should have known about this www.lga.org..? I am not a lawyer, but I am not also stupid.

ps. I haven´t received any e-mails from you Anna (are you sure my e-mail isnt in on some ban list). You can call me (and tape the conversation if you want). You have my number.

RoundTower

C4Queen wrote: »

I am not so sure about your F&S departments competense. I have told you that you can freely present any hand histories of mine to me or to forums worldwide.

No we cant, its against regulations, and since you straight post when we send to you, its out of option to even present you with your own cards.

lol? you can confiscate someone's money but not disseminate the player's hand histories even when he asks for the evidence? chances are the guy is guilty but mermaid is still acting really shadily, this would put me off playing there.

White Knight

chatteau13 wrote:

What if this had happened to you?

Do you really think I should have known about this www.lga.org..? I am not a lawyer, but I am not also stupid.

If what you say happened you, I would be annoyed and try resolve it as soon as I could.

I found that link on their home page on their site. I would advise you to contact them with full details of your query and they will look at it impartially.

They are independent from the site so will not take a side but will look at facts from both parties (and weed out the rest). I know for definite that fines and refunds do occur in certain situations from these regulatory bodies.


Does that sound like a good course of action?

Ste05

chatteau13 wrote: »

What if this had happened to you?

Pick one forum so the whole discussion could be maintained and not have the company representatives running all over the internet trying to keep their name intact and put out stupid fires everywhere at the same time as trying to resolve the issue, possibly??

What you have done seems to have been aimed at causing as much damage as possible to Mermaid and TBH tie up alot of the time of the representatives dealing with you instead of trying to work as a team with you against Boss, who is the problem here not Mermaid??

Mermaid are acting on your behalf in this issue not against you. I'd be pretty annoyed myself with the pretty shoddy customer service, I hope it works out as I'd be inclined to believe you, but you've really gone about this the wrong way.

You prob should have just posted this in the Online Gambling forum of 2+2 and left it at that, but what's done is done now I assume.

Best of luck to all involved.

Finally, any more gimmick account posts will be banned and their posts deleted, I'll leave that one there because C4queen responded to it.

Ste05

cardshark202

I don't get it. If those hands are "nothing" then why don't you show him the hands that are 'something'? I mean refusing to show him all the evidence after he posted up the 2 other hands in a public forum is clearly not the right way to go about things. Like it was clearly Boss' fault that all the players' hole cards were revealed.

lolmermaidpoker

C4Queen wrote: »

pls read my statement before posting that. The two hands are such small input in the whole scenariou and if you bother to read you would know.

I`d say you have to play alot of hands to get up to the amount i played over the years. Trust me both me and my colleque have repetly told the F&S that those hands are nothing, but apparantley there are loads of more hands with same pattern. And all togheter with other things it is enough for a lock down.

OK so reveal more than 2 hands then? I mean as long as you don't include how your investigations go, just posting hands won't hamper security amiright.

Also, please trim your nails .

Grafter

lolmermaidpoker wrote: »

OK so reveal more than 2 hands then? I mean as long as you don't include how your investigations go, just posting hands won't hamper security amiright.

Also, please trim your nails .

Anna has wisely IMO said that she has said as much as she can on forums.

She can't post details of more hands, even if she wanted to, because they haven't been given to her, if I have read the various threads correctly.

I want to take this opportunity to apologise to Anna (& all other boardsies) for starting this thread here.

My intentions were genuine and my intent was to help Anna get in touch with chateau (who, if genuine, should take on board that Anna is on his side and wants to help. Best analogy is that Anna is the trade union representative and Boss are the management)

C4Queen

Of all the forums this has been posted, the Irish one are the only one that act mature and come with a respond that actually can help the player.
And also seems to actually read what one post, regardless if there are some spelling mistakes.


I take my hat of for Bordies and the Irish players. Respect.

I been abused in private PM`s and totaly spamed, i recevied very very rude words, and this is not really making me put any extra energy on this.
But i guess mission acomplish by the player and his freinds.

We treid to help and also explaining as much as we can.
But it will never stop.

I also appoloqise that this had to end up on Boards and take time from the serious forum that this is.

Take care.

Anna

AdMMM

Can I just ask, if F&S believe he's guilty, and you believe he's guilty, why are you trying to get his funds released?

Also, I know that things can get heated and petty when there's money involved, but this has to be the most bizarre and inefficient way of going about trying to make a case for yourself. Well done.

Grafter

AdMMM wrote: »

Can I just ask, if F&S believe he's guilty, and you believe he's guilty, why are you trying to get his funds released?

Also, I know that things can get heated and petty when there's money involved, but this has to be the most bizarre and inefficient way of going about trying to make a case for yourself. Well done.

This is what I was trying to explain (and once again, in case of doubt, I have no interest or motive, I'm just a player who see's this for what it is)

Mermaid is the go between here, who connect players to the Boss network.

It'd be just the same if you go through GJP, PPP or Boyle's etc to get playing on ipoker. Or through a rakeback site to get on Full Tilt etc.

If (on any of these) you have a problem, the site wants to help you, because they earn from your activity and (until proven otherwise) you are one of the good guys in their eyes and they will support you to the best of their ability (if only to keep the moneys coming in).

Take an abstract example. Your local let's you have a free pint every time you gather the dough and get the round in. What do you do when they turn round and say your mate is barred because of something that they said happened on a night you weren't there? You have no reason to disbelieve your mate and the pub won't show you the CCTV.

cardshark202

Bringing the issue out in public is standard imo. I don't see whats so bizarre about it. Apart from posting it in every single poker forum on the net! I don't think mermaid poker exactly have it in for this guy but the don't seem to be doing their utmost to help him either.
When you say that skins are on the player's side because they earn from his/her activity is kind of silly because boss also earn from his activity. The guy seems to have a genuine case here as I just don't believe he would go to such trouble if he was guilty.
This situation would not put me off playing on mermaid as such, but it would put me off playing on boss as a whole.

C4Queen

There is absolutley not anything anyone could have done more in helping this player getting his funds back. And as i also informed the player i will as i do in all these cases, contact F&S regulary to ask if there is any changes in the case and if funds can be returned.

What Grafter say is really true, we are the link and if we dont fight for our players we will not be able to keep them, and we have a very high rate of loyal, staying players, and i doubt that be the case unless they get the support and service they demand, as in this buisness almost every poker room offer the same games, bonuses ect, its really when it comes to helping players with special things, 24 hrs a day you can make a difference.

As long as its in our power we sort everything that comes along the road. This however is nothing we can decide over.

I have also adviced, as he already been told, to report the matter to LGA and get an objective eye on the facts that lead to him being shut down, that is what they will look into. However i feel this is about other things for the player, like demanding an official appoloqie from Boss from "stealing his money". And from us for not composing good enough emails for him, and fair enough, but i have already stated on so many places that YES it could information wise been handled better from our part in the start, and it was because it ended up at a table where it shouldnt, and the person tried his best to help instead of letting the player wait until for an example i was back from my days off. And we are looking into our routins to avoid this in future.

Only reason why i answering this still is because its on Boards, and i have deep respect for the people in here, every other forum i have stoped trying to answer. But due to that respect i also would like to stop this discussion as its leading nowhere.

Everyone can reach me on my email ac@mermaidpoker.com.

And from our part its on mail this will continue,a s everything that possible can be said or are allowed to be said has already been brought out.

The case is updated with Boss Media aswell as the F&S and player are informed about this, and that is the status right now. If there is any changes in the chargeback risk, the account will be reopned, thats the same in all cases, regardless if they been highlited in forums all over or not.

In cases like this its indeed very unfortuned when and if players are innocent and being punished by the chargeback risk, on that i can not agree more. But as stated in many places, there where several things that closed the account.

I strongly suggest the player to keep his fight against Boss with LGA as they are independent, it must be a far better option then taking it trough forums, unless one are after the attention it attracts.


Best regards
anna

HoLLLLLaments

c4q= live sng phenom imo