Skinny & Fat

bret69

Hi guys, I’m wondering if any of you can give me advice on what to do NOW…here’s my story:[/FONT]

I was always very skinny growing up and about a year ago I began taking supplements like protein and weight gainer to build mass. Additionally, I was training 1-2 times a week.

Here’s where I am now:

I’ve put on some overall mass BUT most of it went to either my chin or my stomach. So while I did increase in terms of muscle, I now have a lot of fat around my stomach and chin.

Where would you recommend I go from here?

I want to lose the weight around my chin and stomach but I also want to build muscle, which was my aim in the first place.

Any help/advice is much appreciated.

kevpants

Glad to see you looking for advice here because whoever advised you how to gain muscle the way you were is a bufoon.

Firstly drop the supplements. I dunno what you're taking but stop. You just need to eat a healthy protein rich diet and eat loads. Thise supplements should be used if you're trying to get as much protein into you as you can and can't handle the smell of one more can of tuna or would choke on another chicken breast.

Start training more, what were you doing on your previous 1-2 days a week? 0009Concentrate on compund lifts, bench, deadlift and squat. Look up Starting Strength, a really good beginners program.

You lose fat in the kitchen, build muscle in the gym. Get these right and you'll be set.

g'em

bret69 wrote: »

I was always very skinny growing up and about a year ago I began taking supplements like protein and weight gainer to build mass. Additionally, I was training 1-2 times a week.

If you were taking in a lot of excess calories and not doing the grunt work required to burn it/ build muscle (1-2 times/ week really isn't enough) then the excess food/ cals would simply be turned to fat.

If you feel you've increased your lean mass and simply want to lose fat then all you need to do is reduce your daily intake of calories by a small amount (10-15% less than what you're taking in now, and monitor), make sure the food you do eat is clean and keep training.

If however you feel like you've put on more flab than muscle then you need to stop, re-appraise and start all over again.

How much do you weigh now?

How much did you start out at?

What's your daily food intake like?

How many/ much supplements do you take?

What's your exercise like?

BossArky

Work harder in the gym, eat smarter outside.

Post your current workout (exercises, reps, sets, weights) & typical daily diet.

bret69

Thanks for your responses guys...

To answer your questions...

I read the book by Anthony Ellis, which is for guys who are skinny or "hardgainers", which is what I was. He said that in order to gain mass, you need to get in at least one gram of protein per pound of body weight, which is very difficult to do through normal food. So I started taking protein / weight gainer to increase my protein intake.

When I was working out in the gym, I'd usually work with free weights and do biceps, triceps, shoulders, chest and sometimes legs. I'd usually do 10 reps and then increase the weight and decrease to 8 reps, then same again and same again to 4 reps on maximum weight.

I have increased my weight from almost 12 stone to 13.75. I have increased mass but a lot is fat.

My diet isn't the best, I try eat as much protein etc. as I can but it's quite difficult to eat a lot on a budget.

When I started out, I didn't really have any fat at all but I was really skinny and the weights would make little to no difference. So I decided, after reading the Anthony Ellis book, to take protein and weight gainer and there was an overall increase in size that people remarked but unfortunately a lot went to my chin and stomach.

I've now stopped taking any supplements and I'm just jogging/walking as much as possible.

I need to get rid of the weight on my stomach and chin asap but I still really want to increase my mass in terms of muscle.

BossArky

What free weight exercises exactly have you been doing when working out? 10,000 curls? Bench, squat, deadlift, chins, rows?

What exactly is your diet?

What height, age, weight? Male?

You need to give specific info if you want detailed advice.

bret69

Ok...I'm male, mid twenties and 6'1. I currently weigh 13.75 stone.

I generally do bicep curls, bench press, squats, and pull down machine for back and triceps (can't remember what it's called). I do 4 sets of each excercise, usually doing 10 reps, then increasing weight and dropping by 2 reps.

My diet before was 5 meals a day - for breakfast, I'd have weetabix or porridge. For lunch, I'd vary everyday, everything from a ham sandwich to beans on toast to eggs to McD's. For dinner, I'd have potatoes, with peas/turnips/beans and chicken/pork/fish. Then I'd have two protein or weight gaining shakes in between.

That was my diet and excercise routine before. In the last few weeks, I've dropped the supplements and am just doing cardio trying to get rid of the fat on my stomach and chin.

Jimmy Bottlehead

bret69 wrote: »

Ok...I'm male, mid twenties and 6'1. I currently weigh 13.75 stone.

I generally do bicep curls, bench press, squats, and pull down machine for back and triceps (can't remember what it's called). I do 4 sets of each excercise, usually doing 10 reps, then increasing weight and dropping by 2 reps.

My diet before was 5 meals a day - for breakfast, I'd have weetabix or porridge. For lunch, I'd vary everyday, everything from a ham sandwich to beans on toast to eggs to McD's. For dinner, I'd have potatoes, with peas/turnips/beans and chicken/pork/fish. Then I'd have two protein or weight gaining shakes in between.

That was my diet and excercise routine before. In the last few weeks, I've dropped the supplements and am just doing cardio trying to get rid of the fat on my stomach and chin.

Ouch... be prepared for your workout and diet to be butchered, but its all in the name of good

bret69

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Ouch... be prepared for your workout and diet to be butchered, but its all in the name of good

I welcome it! The funny thing is I haven't gone far off what was suggested in the book, I mean I didn't follow the diet word for word but not far off in terms of the amount of times I should eat, the protein intake and the supplements. And then the workout is pretty much what was suggested in the book...

BossArky

bret69 wrote: »

Ok...I'm male, mid twenties and 6'1. I currently weigh 13.75 stone.

I generally do bicep curls, bench press, squats, and pull down machine for back and triceps (can't remember what it's called). I do 4 sets of each excercise, usually doing 10 reps, then increasing weight and dropping by 2 reps.

Ok, try including these on top of what you are doing:

• Pull Ups
• Deadlift
• Dumbbell Shoulder Press
• Barbell Lunges

Do lots of squats, deadlifts, bench and pull ups. These should be your priority. A few sets of isolation exercises are fine at the end, but you want to hit the big exercises hard and for longer to burn lots of calories.

Keep a warm up set or two of 10 reps, then increase they weight a good bit if possible and go for another few sets of 5 reps or so. This will hopefully force you to build more strength / muscle - boosting your metabolism and burning calories for longer than the higher rep stuff. As you put on more muscle your body will gradually eat away at the stores of fat. A bigger engine needs more fuel.

I guess the fact that you put bicep curls first in the list is because you spend more time on these?

bret69 wrote: »

My diet before was 5 meals a day - for breakfast, I'd have weetabix or porridge. For lunch, I'd vary everyday, everything from a ham sandwich to beans on toast to eggs to McD's. For dinner, I'd have potatoes, with peas/turnips/beans and chicken/pork/fish. Then I'd have two protein or weight gaining shakes in between.

That was my diet and excercise routine before. In the last few weeks, I've dropped the supplements and am just doing cardio trying to get rid of the fat on my stomach and chin.

Your diet seems to be where bigger problem is.

To loose weight you need to more or less follow these directions:

Avoid this:

• bread
• spuds
• pasta
• rice
• alcohol
• sweet stuff .. chocs... coke, etc
• junk i.e. McD's
  
  Have lots of this:
  • tuna
  • chicken
  • eggs
  • water
  • fresh veg (carrots, brocoli, cauliflower, onions, peppers, mushrooms, etc)
  • nuts
  • avocado

You don't have to totally avoid everything in the "avoid" list... however it is up to you how much you really want to loose weight. I'd say go for it, just make sure you eat enough fresh veg etc and have some vitamins on the side to stay healthy. After a few weeks you will loose the urge to eat cr@p and crave "clean living".

Good luck!

Hanley

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Ouch... be prepared for your workout and diet to be butchered, but its all in the name of good

What's wrong with his diet?? Obviously we've no idea what sorta portions we're talking, some protein with breakfast would be good, but the core components are decent enough.

If he wants to lose weight, carbs need to come down. But with a few tweaks, it could be quite workable.

bret69

Thank you for your responses. What would you reccommend in terms of losing the excess fat?

corkcomp

Hanley wrote: »

What's wrong with his diet?? Obviously we've no idea what sorta portions we're talking, some protein with breakfast would be good, but the core components are decent enough.

If he wants to lose weight, carbs need to come down. But with a few tweaks, it could be quite workable.

+1 it might not be optimal but its not a bad diet overall and the OP doesnt have a huge ammount of weight to loose anyway .... Remember the average person needs to have a diet that is reasonably healthy as well as sustainable .. if posters rip everyones diet to pieces because its not perfect then people could be "scared off" - rant over lol

davyjose

bret69 wrote: »

I welcome it! The funny thing is I haven't gone far off what was suggested in the book, I mean I didn't follow the diet word for word but not far off in terms of the amount of times I should eat, the protein intake and the supplements. And then the workout is pretty much what was suggested in the book...

Your diet isn't the problem. Working out 1 or 2 times a week is. You'r going to need to be going at least 3, preferably 4 days a week and work-out at quite an intensity. As you can see, the weight will go on; you just need to do the work to make that weight muscle, not fat.

bret69

davyjose wrote: »

Your diet isn't the problem. Working out 1 or 2 times a week is. You'r going to need to be going at least 3, preferably 4 days a week and work-out at quite an intensity. As you can see, the weight will go on; you just need to do the work to make that weight muscle, not fat.

Ok so besides the weights, what kind of cardio should I be doing?

davyjose

bret69 wrote: »

Ok so besides the weights, what kind of cardio should I be doing?

Forget cardio, do more weights. If you're looking to bulk, then lift weights 3/4 times a week. Are you looking to simply remove any fat you've gained, or do you still want to bulk?
If you start putting on muscle, that will use up the calories you're eating, so in theory the fat you have put on should start to come off. The problem is, if you aren't working hard enough, then your muscled aren't being challenged enough to start getting bigger, so all those cals get turned to fat. That's (very) basically it.

kazzer

I have to say I don’t understand the obsession with carbs. It seems to be the first thing that comes to peoples mind when losing weight is mentioned, when calorie control is what its all about. That’s how you lose weight. Don’t complicate things with carbs. Reducing your intake all across the board is how its done – fixating on carbs just complicates things. Yes some people may be eating excessive amounts of carbs which they should reduce, but when your talking about weight loss and the average person, I don’t see the need to “cut bread, pasta, rice, potatoes.” On occasions where I did successfully drop fat in the past I did so by reducing my overall intake – not faffing about with carb control. I continued eating all those ‘bad’ carbs at any time of the day – why? Because that’s what I like to eat, and I don’t see the need in complicating things. Its very difficult to 'diet' on food you dont enjoy - so why live like that, for the sake of a possible minuscule improvement in results.

g'em

kazzer wrote: »

I have to say I don’t understand the obsession with carbs.

You're absolutely right that portion control is a big factor, but when you also pay more attention to how much of your calories come from carbs it'll lead to quicker fat loss.

Carbs are essentially sugars and unused sugars get turned to fat a lot quicker than protein or fats will.

There's also the influence that carbs have on insulin which fats and protein don't have. Excess carbs = higher insulin reistance = being more prone to gain fat from excess cals.

In short, fewer carbs will make you less likely to gain fat from excess cals.

Brian?

kazzer wrote: »

I have to say I don’t understand the obsession with carbs. It seems to be the first thing that comes to peoples mind when losing weight is mentioned, when calorie control is what its all about. That’s how you lose weight. Don’t complicate things with carbs. Reducing your intake all across the board is how its done – fixating on carbs just complicates things. Yes some people may be eating excessive amounts of carbs which they should reduce, but when your talking about weight loss and the average person, I don’t see the need to “cut bread, pasta, rice, potatoes.” On occasions where I did successfully drop fat in the past I did so by reducing my overall intake – not faffing about with carb control. I continued eating all those ‘bad’ carbs at any time of the day – why? Because that’s what I like to eat, and I don’t see the need in complicating things. Its very difficult to 'diet' on food you dont enjoy - so why live like that, for the sake of a possible minuscule improvement in results.

If the OP's goal was simply to lose weight you might have a point, not a good point mind you. But the OP is trying to gain lean muscle mass and lose fat, the only way to do this successfully is to maintain his calorie intake.

You might not see the need to 'complicate' things for a 'minuscle' improvment, but I think you'll find that you're giving terrible advice.

kazzer

But if a person is trying to lose fat has a calorie deficit of say 300 cals a day, how does it help to take in 20% carbs rather than 40%, (just as an example)? They have a calorie deficit in both scenarios, so they will lose fat either way. I just dont see where you get 'more-bang-for-your-buck' so speak, but eating less carbs. The energy you are taking in to your body is exactly the same.

kazzer

briankeating wrote: »

If the OP's goal was simply to lose weight you might have a point, not a good point mind you. But the OP is trying to gain lean muscle mass and lose fat, the only way to do this successfully is to maintain his calorie intake.

You might not see the need to 'complicate' things for a 'minuscle' improvment, but I think you'll find that you're giving terrible advice.

Hmm, so terrible advice is advising someone to:

- Control intake
- Keep things simple
- Not get fixated on carbs


Which bit was terrible again?

Brian?

kazzer wrote: »

Hmm, so terrible advice is advising someone to:

- Control intake
- Keep things simple
- Not get fixated on carbs


Which bit was terrible again?

Telling someone who is trying to gain lean muscle mass to reduce their calorie intake.

kazzer

briankeating wrote: »

Telling someone who is trying to gain lean muscle mass to reduce their calorie intake.

Did you not see that I was making a general comment on carbs? No, maybe not. Read my first comment back again, and you might get a feel for it.

g'em

kazzer wrote: »

The energy you are taking in to your body is exactly the same.

Not necessarily. Fats, proteins and carbs are all energy, but they're utilised by your body in slightly different ways.

Gross oversimplification of metabolism on the way....

Carbs are sugars and are used for energy and very little else.

Fats are used for energy but are also used for building other important molecules like hormones which in turn help regulate your body's process, including appetite control.

Proteins are used for energy but are also vital for helping the body build and repair its own proteins, of which there are hundreds of gazillions, and it's very hard for your body to store excess protein as body fat.

So... if you have a diet that's mostly carbs, you're essentially ingesting mostly energy. But if your diet is fewer carbs and more fats and proteins, your ingesting stuff that can be used for other functions.

Also, the hormone insulin is the primary hormone responsible for that fat storage. Insulin responds to carbs. When you eat a lot of carbs insulin levels fluctuate wildly - the more insulin spikes you get the more prone you are to store fat. And the more spikes you get, the less sensitive insulin will become and it gets harder and harder to regulate. This means that in the long term, with a high carb diet you become more and more likely to store fat, even[ when you're watching your calorie intake.

We can further complicate this by saying that for lifters or fitness enthusiasts (i.e. those who want to retain as much muscle as possible) the more protein and fats you have in your diet, the easier it is to hold onto lean mass as your body won't need to catabolise itself in order to get the raw material it needs for repair and maintenance.

g'em

kazzer and brian - I know that at this time of the day the phrase "handbags at dawn" is more than apt, but it's a Friday, it's been a long week and it would be just lovely if the sniping could be kept to a minimum (or preferably cease altogether). Stop intentionally misinterpreting eachothers' posts.

kazzer

Thanks for that G'em. Makes sense now.

Brian?

g'em wrote: »

kazzer and brian - I know that at this time of the day the phrase "handbags at dawn" is more than apt, but it's a Friday, it's been a long week and it would be just lovely if the sniping could be kept to a minimum (or preferably cease altogether). Stop intentionally misinterpreting eachothers' posts.

Sorry about that, I didn't intend to start an argument. I should have tried to make my point in a different way, which you did for me I think. I'll leave it at that.

corkcomp

its probably too early in the morning to enter into the whole carb debate:D but i have to say one thing i have noticed is when someone comes on here looking for weight loss advice some posters just throw out the standard advice re cutting carbs ..i have lost a serious ammount of weight without restricting carbs (just changing the source) and there is no reason why carbs cant make up around 50% of somebodys overall calorie intake ... keep it simple people, start by cutting out obvious junk and if its NOT working then look at tweaking things further ...

cozmik

g'em wrote: »

with a high carb diet you become more and more likely to store fat, even[ when you're watching your calorie intake.

Is there any evidence that eating carbs leads to more or easier fat storage?

Hanley

cozmik wrote: »

Is there any evidence that eating carbs leads to more or easier fat storage?

Eat 2000kcal a day of pure carbs for a month, and 2000kcals of 50% protein, 10-20% carbs and 30-40% fat and you tell me!!

BossArky

bret69 wrote: »

Thank you for your responses. What would you reccommend in terms of losing the excess fat?

Eh, did you read my post?

corkcomp

i dont want to generalise here but anyone ive ever met who says they need to low carb to loose weight / drop BF is NEARLY always lazy with the cardio .. if you like cardio and your willing to push yourself at it and you can fit it in to your schedule its a good approach ... Obviously a diet of 100% carbs would not be good the same as a diet with 0 carbs wouldn't be good (IMO) but why not strike a balance?

Hanley

corkcomp wrote: »

i dont want to generalise here but anyone ive ever met who says they need to low carb to loose weight / drop BF is NEARLY always lazy with the cardio .. if you like cardio and your willing to push yourself at it and you can fit it in to your schedule its a good approach ... Obviously a diet of 100% carbs would not be good the same as a diet with 0 carbs wouldn't be good (IMO) but why not strike a balance?

Yeah, but if you're dieting hard and attempt to overdo the cardio, you put yourself at risk of muscle wasteage.

I'd personally rather diet hard and not do cardio. But that's just cos I find it incredibly boring.

cozmik

Hanley wrote: »

Eat 2000kcal a day of pure carbs for a month, and 2000kcals of 50% protein, 10-20% carbs and 30-40% fat and you tell me!!

As fun as that challenge sounds I think I'd prefer to wait for an answer from the original poster.

g'em

cozmik wrote: »

Is there any evidence that eating carbs leads to more or easier fat storage?

Lots - Google "carbohydrates" and "fat storage" and you've got enough reading to last you a couple of weeks. I don't have access to journals right now as I'm not in work but these articles reference various studies regarding this topic:

http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2005/09/insulin-fat-storage-fat-use-for-energy.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/carbohydrates/lower_your_grains.htm
http://web.winltd.com/Article.aspx?PageURL=/Pages/English/healthnews/sugarcravings.htm
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/510/54/
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/3/539

I'm not for a second saying you need to cut out carbs, simply that for the majority of people who need to lose fat reducing the over-abundance of carbs in their diet is the most effective tool for reaching their goal.

best boardsie

bret69 wrote: »

Ok...I'm male, mid twenties and 6'1. I currently weigh 13.75 stone.

My diet before was 5 meals a day - for breakfast, I'd have weetabix or porridge. For lunch, I'd vary everyday, everything from a ham sandwich to beans on toast to eggs to McD's. For dinner, I'd have potatoes, with peas/turnips/beans and chicken/pork/fish. Then I'd have two protein or weight gaining shakes in between.

That was my diet and excercise routine before. In the last few weeks, I've dropped the supplements and am just doing cardio trying to get rid of the fat on my stomach and chin.

Out of interest, what protein and weight gain shakes were you using and how much calories did they have in a serving? I struggle to believe anyone on that diet would be anything close to 13.75 stone. If you are then your certainly not a "hardgainer," quite the opposite in fact.

bret69

BossArky wrote: »

Eh, did you read my post?

I did and it was VERY informative! Thank you!

I'm trying to implement as much of it as possible.

bret69

best boardsie wrote: »

Out of interest, what protein and weight gain shakes were you using and how much calories did they have in a serving? I struggle to believe anyone on that diet would be anything close to 13.75 stone. If you are then your certainly not a "hardgainer," quite the opposite in fact.

I was using Maximuscle Progain. I think it has 453 calories and 32g of protein per serving.

I probably put on that weight because all of a sudden I was taking 2 of those a shakes a day in addition to what I was eating before and I pretty much stopped doing any cardio.

The reason I think I'm a hardgainer is because before I started taking the shakes I was very skinny and lifting weights didn't seem to make any difference.

BossArky

bret69 wrote: »

I was using Maximuscle Progain. I think it has 453 calories and 32g of protein per serving.

Holy Moley. Sounds like that could be your problem.