still looking for answers...

gedas

Hi all,
My original post is here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055371371

And again, I'm sorry if this is going to be long.
Basically I'm feeling very very guilty for our breakup, that I can't think of anything else. It seems that the guilt should've subsided somewhat by now, but it's just growing stronger.

Anyway, I've moved to London. I am not Irish, so I didn't really have much in Ireland, except the ex and her family. So, I think, I did the right thing.
I am staying at my sister's for now, and she is a very wise person. She's telling me I have to start thinking about myself. But I CAN'T! My ex is always on my mind. And it's not that I'm miserable because I've lost her, but because I feel like I was so bad to her that she decided she didn't want to live with me anymore...
So what I am feeling now is that I don't deserve anything good right now. I don't deserve my sister's help, I definately don't deserve to get back with my ex. People tell me that I have to love myself now, but how can I love myself after being so bad to the person I loved? I hate myself for what I've become.
So, my question probably is, how do you love YOURSELF? How do you FORGIVE yourself? How do you make peace with yourself?
I am probably too critical of myself, but I just can't help it.......thanks

Wibbs

You're still in the early stages and after all it was a 5 year relationship so you can expect a hard time transitioning from that.

OK first thing you have to realise is that you can't change what has happened. Simple as that. So it's pointless to worry about something that you have absolutely no power over. Guilt is pointless for that very reason. Guilt is good initially, because it can make you realise things you should have done or not done and hopefully teaches you what not to do or do in the future. When the lesson is learned guilt is no longer required.

Second thing is to realise, that sometimes shít just happens. No rhyme or reason to it. All you can do again is to learn from it, if indeed there are lessons to be learned. Sometimes the lesson is that there is no lesson.

Third thing is, you never know what's around the next corner, so why shut yourself off from life? Makes no sense.

Fourth, grow a pair. Sounds harsh, but beyond the usual simpering hand holding popular among some, growing a pair, grabbing same squarely and saying to yourself, "sod this I'm moving on" is a healthy attitude. Don't let anyone tell you different. It's all very well to witter on about your feelings for a while. Indeed it's healthy, but there comes a time when talking should stop and living should bloody well start.

Fifthly, move on. Take steps to do so. Moving to London is one of them. Opening up to a new career and social life is another. With the other steps in place these openings will become more obvious.

Lastly, with all of the above, fake it until you make it as they say. Realise alos that you will have bad days. I guarantee it. Expect them. By expecting them you won't be surprised. You will also have good days. Expect them too. Sooner or later you'll have more good than bad.

Good luck.

Wagon

I really can't see why your guilty. She fecked off to venice with this bloke right after you two broke up.

There's no point in feeling guilty and I'd also echo Wibbs here and say grow a pair. You need to draw the line here for your guilt. If it was a case where you left her begging you to return home to work things out then I'd understand why you would feel like that completely but, jaysus, she didn't exactly care much.

Wibbs covered pretty much everything. All I'll say is that that you shouldn't feel guilty to wanting to be happy.

unhappycamper

Gedas,


Sorry to hear your still finding all this pain so hard to deal with man. I understand that maybe you are going through feelings of 'what if' and 'maybe I should have calmed down' or 'if only this, if only that'...

The point is that no matter what actions you took your x partner went off to Venice with this other guy. That was her decision. Somewhere along the line she chose him over you, so no matter what you did she had consciously or sub consciously decided to move on. Not nice at all.

Regardless of what you may have done or not done to save the relationship it was your partner that decided to move on and I can only imagine how bad you may feel. People do not like rejection on the one hand or a lack of loyalty on the other.


Your scenario is all too common. I had a Swedish friend who was living in Dublin, his girlfriend and him were in a serious long term committed relationship. He was sharing with a Swedish girl with whom he grew up with, they started college together. They were living together for months before he decided to break up with his x and start a new relationship with this Swedish girl. He was the happiest man alive but sadly his x partner
wasn't.


When you break it off with someone you feel liberated to a small extent and freed of the rut and tyranny of the past but when you get dumped you are the one who feels inadequate, low self esteem, depression. When somebody dumps on your own door step with another guy well that's just really depressing.

However, all of these scenarios are just that. The person you are remains, maybe you refuse to acknowledge yourself as a great guy due to all the darkness and pain of the break up? Take a step back a few years before you met your x partner. Where you great? Where you confident? Please don't let this point in time over shadow just who you are, no matter what anyone says you did your best so leave it. Leave it alone, it's not yours anymore. You need to project your own sense of freedom outside yourself and open up again, I know I need to.

gedas

Thanks,

Perhaps the main reason why I feel so guilty is that because I couldn't manage to keep her since she was the only girlfriend I've had. I've never been confident with women, and it was just easy with her. Yes, she did have to put up with my sh1te for a while, as I did with hers. No one is perfect. I know there were girls who did want to go out with me before her, but I just didn't see that because of the lack of confidence, and that's why I didn't have any relationships until I was 23. I never really knew why would anyone fancy me. Then she came into my life, and all was great. We started living together only after about 3 months of going out properly. Most of you probably would say it was a mistake. I actually came to Ireland because of her.....
Also another thing that's annoying me is my body's reaction to all this ordeal. I've always been a bit underweight, but now I'm a f**** sceleton. Didn't eat for a month, lived on two packs of smokes and 10 cups of coffee a day. It is getting better now, but shopping for clothes is still depressing.

Wibbs

Well then think of her as part of a phase of life that taught you that you are attractive to women and can have a relationship. OK it went south, but nobody is any good the first time around. Practice makes perfect. Put it another way there are nigh on 3.5 billion women out there. Thems good odds.

gedas

And yes, I am trying to see this as a lesson, perhaps even the most important lesson in my life. I just can't forgive myself that I could let this happen. And yes I know there are two people in a relationship, but she said that it was me who didn't try hard enough. And yes, at times, I didn't try hard enough, because I was p1ssed off with myself. She never really TOLD me that she was unhappy when we were together. And all I had to listen during this breakup was how bad I was, how I did this and didn't do that...And that's probably why I am so angry at myself now. I didn't SEE that she was unhappy....
And, by the way, she said that she is not leaving me for that other fella. And I don't really want to know whether they are together right now or not. She said she went to venice with him because she needed to run away from the whole situation, and that he was spontanous enough (and I lack that) and took time off work and went with her to be there for her.I don't f***** know....

Wibbs

OK this is just my take so take from it what you will....

gedas wrote: »

And yes, I am trying to see this as a lesson, perhaps even the most important lesson in my life.

The best lessons are often the hardest to take.

I just can't forgive myself that I could let this happen.

Stop right there. Why not. It's over. What's done is done and the only thing you should feel guilty over is if you repeat the same mistakes.

And yes I know there are two people in a relationship,

Bingo.

she said that it was me who didn't try hard enough.

Of course she did. She's looking for reasons and of course looking for ways to offset her own guilt about this. The more she freaks at you, generally the bigger the guilt on her side. Unless you were abusive towards her in which case she's right.

And yes, at times, I didn't try hard enough, because I was p1ssed off with myself.

OK so you screwed up. Cool, but as you say it takes two to tango.

She never really TOLD me that she was unhappy when we were together.

Very common. I would put money that she did try to tell you, but not in a way you spotted. This very very rarely comes out of the blue, unless she was a certifiable window licking loop job. This is a very common thing for men to say in my experience. They think it came out of the blue, but if you look at it objectively she gave you signals leading up to it.

Common signals are; drop off in interest in sex and general hugs and touching(though a sudden burst of sex can be a sign of emotional turmoil too), lack of interest in going out, or an increase in interest in things and people that don't include you, an increase in time spent with another man, an increase in arguments, arguments that you thought were resolved(any argument she kept bringing up is usually the one that stopped her attraction dead in the end), a decrease in conversation, less talk about the future etc. The list can be a long one.

The loss of sexual attraction is 90% of it. If a woman loses that it's game over. They'll define it as the "spark" etc, but it boils down to that. If it wasn't then they'll say they have the spark with male mates and they don't. It(partially) explains why everyone knows a woman who is with an abusive guy but keeps going back to him, often to the exclusion of better men. It can switch off seemingly quickly too, but it's a slow build up over time in most cases in a long termer. She may even feel it was a sudden thing, but subconsciously it was building up. Now it can be described as falling out of love, but she presumably loved you once, so what changed that? In future don't expect that this attraction will continue under it's own steam without input from you.

As it was your first relationship, you simply didn't spot the problems in time and assumed that she would stick around as you were judging the relationship they way you saw it, not the way she may be feeling. Falling in love is actually a doddle all things considered. Staying in love long term is the trick and needs work and observation. This breakup, though troubling is part of that learning.

And all I had to listen during this breakup was how bad I was, how I did this and didn't do that...And that's probably why I am so angry at myself now. I didn't SEE that she was unhappy....

Again she is partially projecting her feelings of failure regarding your relationship and putting it all on you. A common and natural defence mechanism on her part. Trust me she feels as responsible in a lot of ways.

And, by the way, she said that she is not leaving me for that other fella.

Even if she was going off with the other bloke, she will try to hide that for your sake in most cases. Even deny it to herself to take the possible guilty sting out of it.

And I don't really want to know whether they are together right now or not.

Good plan as whether she is or not will have little bearing on your new life.

She said she went to venice with him because she needed to run away from the whole situation, and that he was spontanous enough (and I lack that) and took time off work and went with her to be there for her.I don't f***** know....

That's entirely possible. IMHO many women don't like to be suddenly single and alone after a long termer. Much more than men anyway. This can often be simply that they won't let go of one branch(you) until another branch (him) comes along. It's one reason why more women serial rebound than men in general. That's common enough but it can be even simpler than that. I've seen it with women mates of mine. They leave a long termer and suddenly I'm getting more invites to go with them to places. Nothing sexual, just male company basically. If she does end up with him, then she made that decision in her head a good time before she actually left you. As I say you wouldn't always spot that at the time.

Now all this is aimed at you. It does not mean that she didn't play a part in this. She may have played a huge part in it, but I'm not talking to her, I'm talking to you and you are the one who is the only person that can change you. Her life is hers.

In any case, she's gone. For whatever reason and to whomever. That's how you should look at it. Let her go. Learn from the experience and take this time to be a better you.

Good luck



PS I would advise that if she asks to be friends(and she will, within the month, I'd bet), don't. Very bad plan. Good for her as she gets the benefit, but it'll delay your healing and at the moment you owe her nothing but the ordinary courtesy you would extend to any human being.

unhappycamper

Wibbs

Possibly the best post I have ever read, nice one +99

limklad

gedas wrote: »

Hi all,
My original post is here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055371371

And again, I'm sorry if this is going to be long.
Basically I'm feeling very very guilty for our breakup, that I can't think of anything else. It seems that the guilt should've subsided somewhat by now, but it's just growing stronger.

Anyway, I've moved to London. I am not Irish, so I didn't really have much in Ireland, except the ex and her family. So, I think, I did the right thing.
I am staying at my sister's for now, and she is a very wise person. She's telling me I have to start thinking about myself. But I CAN'T! My ex is always on my mind. And it's not that I'm miserable because I've lost her, but because I feel like I was so bad to her that she decided she didn't want to live with me anymore...
So what I am feeling now is that I don't deserve anything good right now. I don't deserve my sister's help, I definately don't deserve to get back with my ex. People tell me that I have to love myself now, but how can I love myself after being so bad to the person I loved? I hate myself for what I've become.
So, my question probably is, how do you love YOURSELF? How do you FORGIVE yourself? How do you make peace with yourself?
I am probably too critical of myself, but I just can't help it.......thanks

If you love you ex enough, then you should let her go, and let her find happiness. If it was meant to be then there would be no problem. You guilt is a good sign so Listen to you wise sister. Learn from you mistakes and move on. There no point of keep visiting the past.

gedas

Thank you,

Wibbs, you are probably right in saying that she tried to tell me that she is not happy with me. In fact, now when I am analyzing this whole thing, I am sure she did. I just wish I was more AWARE of what she was trying to say. I think I did mention me seeing her drinking as a problem. But now she says that she was drinking because she was unhappy and even depressed and that I did nothing to stop her drinking. In fact, I sometimes encouraged it. I don't know, perhaps I did, because I do sometimes like to enjoy a beer or two. And that's why I feel like it's my fault that it all ended. I just didn't see. I've been told to get angry. I definately can't get angry at her, because she did what she thought was good for both of us. I should get angry at myself, and then make something out of it. I do sometimes get angry, but it doesn't last long. I then start feeling guilty again, and it all starts again. It's a vicious cycle.

She has never had a great sex drive although very affectionate and would always tell me that I was a great lover. So I don't really know if sex is the main sign. And at times it seemed to me that she wanted sex only when she was drunk, which p1ssed me off.

And no, I don't want to be friends with her. She knows why. But still I am tempted to text or email her to ask how is she doing. I haven't done that, and sort of proud of that.

I just wish she would let my be good to her....I wish I tried harder when I needed to....I wanted a family for christ's sake......

limklad, yes, I do love her dearly, that's why I left Ireland, so she can move on properly without me begging her for that chance.........
thanks

emma@

I can understand why you feel guilty, and i promise that does go away, it can take years to get over someone.

BUT you have to take care of yourself, you sound like a lovely guy who would be a great catch for someone in the future when you are ready.

Im a bit useless when it comes to this but i hope that you can look after yourself and let us know how you're doing

gedas

thanks emma@,

I am trying to take care of myself, cutting down on smokes, stopped drinking coffee, started eating a bit more, trying to get in touch with old mates who are living here in London. I know I have to do more to boost my confidence, because it does feel like I have failed at the most important thing in my life. So I am looking for ways on how to do just that - improve confidence... Thank you guys.