Running or leg press?

miss no stars

K so the last two days I've been getting excruciating pain in both of my knees after working out. The only thing I can think of that might do this would be my cool down run or the leg press (cross trainer wouldn't, would it?)

Anyone had this problem and know how to overcome it? I don't think there's anything wrong with my technique, I'm doing the reps exactly as I was shown by the gym instructor and I'm wearing good supportive runners that have probably only seen about 200 miles (and I'm very light wearing on runners).

EileenG

How heavy are you going on leg press? And what is your technique like? Leg press is generally regarded as a safe exercise, but a recent study of women doing it found that it could cause hip and knee problems. It's very easy to go so heavy that you overstress your knees.

Try squats, lunges or step-ups instead.

RacoonQueen

What other exercises are you doing?

My guess is it would be more likely the leg press than the running. I've often had sore knees after a heavy leg session.

BossArky

The leg press is probably stressing your quads too much. I guess you aren't doing a hamstring exercise? This means that your knee cap is getting pulled up on the front due to tighted quads.

This happened to me from not squatting properly down to parallel.

Try including as many, if not more, hamstring exercises (leg curl, stiff leg deadlift) than quad stuff for the next month or so and see if that helps.

I never get knee pain now.

Chris89

I would reccomend that you ditch the leg press if possible and definitley stay away from leg isolation lifts.

Squats and deadlifts are much more natural movements, even just air squats ( with no weight ) below parallel, will greatly improve your "leg health".

d-gal

I find alot of people damage their knees on the leg press coz they lock out especially if it is a horizontal leg press, harder to do on a vertical.
Do a simple test, run a monday, check to see if knees are sore, then leg press on thursday and you will find out

miss no stars

Sounds like it's the leg press so. Will check it out. I've got hypermobile joints though, so it could be the run. Will talk to gym supervisor about switching leg press for something else if it's the leg press that's doing it.

Thanks for the advice!

conceited

Bossarky thats very good advice.

miss no stars

Thanks for the advice.

Reduced the weight on the leg press (feels so ultra light now!!!!) and lo and behold, no more knee pain! Have 2 more sessions before my programme is reviewed so will talk to the trainer then about including more hamstring exercises as I do feel my legs are a little neglected and I'd like to get them tot he traffic stopping stage Just a little hesistant about using equiptment I haven't been shown how to use properly - I injure very very easily so I can be over cautious.

EileenG

A good hamstring exercise is the stiffleg deadlift. Stand holding a fairly light barbell with legs straight but knees soft. Keeping your back straight, or even with a slight arch and your tummy muscles tight, bend at the hips to lower the barbell along your shins. Keep it close to your legs all the way down. Go down as far as feels natural, you probably won't touch the floor. Tighten the muscles in your glutes and hamstrings to reverse.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/ErectorSpinae/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html

I find this works hamstrings far more effectively than the hamstring machine, and it's a functional exercise, the sort of thing you will probably do in real life.

miss no stars

Cool! I'll ask to have that included in my routine. Sounds like a pretty good exercise. Thanks for the info

BossArky

How long have you been training? Maybe it is time to put together a program on your own?

miss no stars

In the gym only two months. I did exercise before joining gym but wanted to do weights as running only was making my BMI drop too much.

I don't want to put together my own programme because of aforementioned hypermobile joints - too much risk that I'd overextend a joint, especially as I've never been properly shown how to do most exercises.

brianthebard

What else are you doing for your legs? Are you squatting? You don't have to put together a programme yourself from scratch, you will progress much better by finding a pre made plan online or in a book (like starting strength, haven't used it but it is often recommended).

miss no stars

Not doing anything else for my legs! Tbh I had thought my legs were relatively strong so I asked to concentrate more on upper body as, although my core and back are good and strong, I've flimsy arms! Must look at addressing the balance in my workout

Sure what the hell, here's my workout, rate and slate:

warm up:
cross trainer, 15 minutes at level 4 resistance

weights:
arm extensions (3x15)
leg press (3x15)
bicep curl (3x15) [find this v boring and very uncomfortable (not in a painful way) so will have to find replacement as I've been avoiding doing the full 3 sets]
Row rear dealt (3x15)
chest press (3x15)

core:
strange reverse situp things on an exercise ball (3x 20)
stress position [called the plank I think?] (3x30 seconds)

Cool down:
15 minute run at 10.5-11 (depending on energy levels)
stretch
Sauna

I've no particular aims other than general fitness and maintaining my current physique. I'm just out of the teenage stage where a BMI of 17.5 is acceptable and attributable to age, so I wanted weights to gain a little weight while gaining fitness and I have done (BMI up to a healthy 19 now) and generally just want to stay at this point until that starts edging on the too light for my age stage.

brianthebard

Its not a bad plan for a beginner. You could look at replacing or moving squats in for the leg press, as well as lunges. Pull ups or chin ups (may have to start with assisted reps and smith pull ups) would be a useful addition that would hit your arms and back. Some shoulder work might be good, but I'm conscious of the fact that women might not like to build up shoulders too much*,dips might also be good. Just my thoughts.







*(no I'm not saying they might get too bulky, but women's shoulders are generally underdeveloped imo and so a strong set are quite obvious imo).

miss no stars

I know what you're saying about the shoulders thing. Until I was 11 I used to swim at an international level and my best stroke was butterfly so my shoulders are fairly broad for my height and frame. I actually think they're in proportion but they stick out the sides of tshirts that are made for girls minus shoulders :P

What are assisted reps and smith pull ups and also dips?

brianthebard

Personally think there's nothing wrong with broad shoulders, good to know you don't have a problem with training them!

Does your gym have a machine like this?http://www.beyondmoseying.com/pioneer-selectorized-basic_assisted-chin-dip-BWS115_pic.html

Its for assisted chins and dips, there's a platform you kneel/stand on attached to a weight stack that subtracted weight from your bodyweight if that makes sense. It allows you to do dips (left pic) and pull ups (right pic) as if you were using your full weight, but you aren't. Instead you can build up to it. Dips look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RujuYeyopeU

Smith pull ups would be the second video on this page: http://pull-ups-training.com/assisted-pull-ups/

miss no stars

Hmmm I'm not sure I've seen any like that. Clever device, though. Then again, I've yet to venture into the free weights section (which, perversely, has some machines in it) so I can't be 100%. Doing something like that is something that appeals to me, especially as I'm aiming to basically train my whole body rather than target one area at a time. Once I kick this cold I have I'll be back in the gym pestering for a new programme :P (Had planned to do so today, alas, public transport has rendered me out of action). Thanks for the advice, definately good to get an opinion other than one of the gym staff!

brianthebard

Did you swim much after you were 11? Sounds like you are probably stronger and fitter than most women who go in as a beginner*, try and get them to put you on a more advanced programme, and don't let them palm you off with light weights for toning crap and try to keep away from isolation exercises if you want to improve your whole body. compound lifts-squat, deadlift, pull/chin ups, dips, bench, press (rows?) are what you need to look at. Have you seen any of the trainers/instructors in the gym lifting?




*no offense ladies.

miss no stars

The problem is that my aerobic fitness is okay while my strength is very erratic depending on which area is being exercised. My arms are extremely weak, whereas my back is very very strong and I can do situps all day and feel no real benefit. My legs tire easily on the bike but I can run for 15 minutes without my legs tiring.

I didn't swim much after I left as basically I had ODed on swimming and as my fitness level went down slightly, it became apparent that the constant exposure to chlorine at a young age had taken its toll on my lungs. Seriously considering donning my goggles again and taking up masters swimming.

For now I'm going to look at incorporating some of the things you've mentioned like squats and some sort of pull up, depending on what's available in the gym. Once I become confident that my strength has evened out slightly I think the natural progression would be to more natural weights exercises like what you've described. For now though I'd worry about my ability to do enough repetitions on a bench. Although I could lift an olympic bar plus a little, I know that I'd struggle to do enough reps and I don't want to land a bar across my neck :eek:

I've seen some of the trainers working out - they tend to be finishing up just as I arrive in around 8am. Better morning people than I am

brianthebard

Sit ups are ghey. there I said it. They have no real benefit so you could easily drop them. Strong back should mean you will do ok at rows and pull ups, but the arms will be the limiting factor. What do you mean by more natural weights exercises? Also if you are worried about dropping the bar when benching maybe try dumbell bench to start with?

miss no stars

I'm very good at the row 20kgs better than my average weight good at the row hehe.

By more natural exercises I mean where your body is moving in a more natural way. I can think of very few circumstances where I would be say, lifting something heavy by curling my arms alone. I'd see chin ups and the like as more natural as it is easily comparable to things done in real life, such as climbing. Then again, this could just be me talking sh!te

brianthebard

Oh right. Well its hard to see any lift as "natural" but I guess isolation exercises are by their unnature, unnatural. Curls are pretty pointless a lot of the time tbh. I think pull ups would definitely have a carry over to climbing though, is that something you do, rock climbing?

miss no stars

Not rock climbing per se. More like going on a trek, finding yourself at the bottom of a fairly steep rockface and just sort of scrambling your way up. Can be fun (though I don't recommend it in gales :S) I just think some sorts of lifts are more natural than others. Like lifting something off the floor - you're not going to only use your legs or arms or whatever I think it's interesting that as I'm getting to the end of my run on one programme I'm suddenly finding out whether things are suiting me or not. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it's very much appreciated .

EileenG

Definitely reduce the number of reps and increase the weights. Try 8-10 reps with a much heavier weight, and you might find it less boring.

What about squats or lunges (great for legs), deadlift (brilliant for back), stiffleg deadlift (great for hamstrings and bum), bench press (chest and triceps), bentover barbell row (lats and arms), pull-ups (whole upper body)