Eircoms NEW solution to high pings / Interleaving Problems

Hank Scorpio

Dear **** *****



I promised to come back to you with further information on a solution to reduce latency for gamers. eircom launched a new broadband product today called eircom Home Advanced which has broadband speeds of up to 7Mbps downstream and 384Kbps upstream with a special configuration of high interleaving downstream and low interleaving upstream to improve gaming performance. Customers will also benefit from an increased download allowance of 50GB per month.



eircom Home Advanced is available to both new and existing eircom broadband customers for €39.99 (inc VAT) per month for a limited time until 31st December.



There’s more information available on the news page of www.eircom.ie or you can call our broadband team on 1800 503 303.



Best Regards


****

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Discuss

EDIT : heres the link http://www.eircom.ie/cgi-bin/bvsm/bveircom/bladerunner/displayNews.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1278546921.1223305789@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccciadefgekfjmlcefeceiedffndffj.0&site=Res&chanId=0&newsItemId=eircom%20Home%20Advanced%20Ideal%20for%20Online%20Gamers

PogMoThoin

Ya, I got an identical email, looks like they realised they got shíte lines and theyre not turning down interleaving :mad:

a special configuration of high interleaving downstream and low interleaving upstream

Bollox to that

Champ

That's welcome news for us users who found the extra bandwidth useful but the high interleaving annoying, though not enough to downgrade to 3Mb.

nuxxx wrote:

high interleaving downstream and low interleaving upstream

Mmmm does that mean that despite Eircom marketing it for gamers that the latency would still be inferior to the current 3Mb package? Assuming the 3MB has low interleaving for both directions.

nuxxx wrote:

eircom Home Advanced is available to both new and existing eircom broadband customers for €39.99 (inc VAT) per month for a limited time until 31st December.

More curiousity than anything else though any ideas why it's a limited time offer? Trial or something?

Gonzo

I think i mite try this out since im only getting 5120/512k anyway, but i notice this is also a 48:1 contention package.

Tazzle

I've noticed a lot of 'contention speak' around this forum. But is there anyone on the 3mb eircom package who isn't getting 3mb? I'm not saying downgrading to 3mb isn't a ludicrous solution to get a decent product back, but I doubt anyone would have trouble with getting the 3mb they got before, contention or no contention. Of course I'm open to correction if there are people around complaining about crap download speeds on a 3mb line.

Gonzo

I read this wrong, i tought they ment low interleving download and high interleving upload but its the other way around... surely this is gonna be hardly any different ping wise to whats currently on the 7.6meg high interleaving both directions package?

Cabaal

their opening a whole can of worms if their aiming a package specifically at gamers, means people are going to expect certain ping times etc and they'll raise hell if they don't get it.

In addition to this why should somebody have to pay more for the issue they have created with interleaving, hardly a solution for most people

AlmightyCushion

Cabaal wrote: »

their opening a whole can of worms if their aiming a package specifically at gamers, means people are going to expect certain ping times etc and they'll raise hell if they don't get it.

In addition to this why should somebody have to pay more for the issue they have created with interleaving, hardly a solution for most people

You get an extra cap as well so they'll probably use that as an excuse when someone complains about having to pay extra to fix the problems eircom caused.

Cabaal

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You get an extra cap as well so they'll probably use that as an excuse when someone complains about having to pay extra to fix the problems eircom caused.

Yeah was thinking that myself, all abit crap.
Although it certaionly wouldn't be in the interest of eircom but how about they make a one off charge of 20e if people want interleaving changed on their line from the normal settings....

It would be better for the customer, but then it wouldn't be better for Eircom's bottom line

thund3rbird_

a special configuration of high interleaving downstream and low interleaving upstream

interleaving currently set at 64 downstream & 8 upstream on 7.6meg

both are the highest setting
( http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm for more )

surely they should be sorting out the current fcuking problem or else change everyone to the Mourinho ?? :rolleyes:

can interleaving not be set per line?

thefinalstage

thund3rbird_ wrote: »

blem or else change everyone to the Mourinho ?? :rolleyes:

can interleaving not be set per line?

You know how long that would take?

Hank Scorpio

i called up yesterday and actually met a irish bloke on the phone
I`v seen people talking here about there datapath being fastpath..
I ask nicely if i could be set onto fastpath and he said, "We dont do fastpath and hes never heard of any customers getting it"

My line has gone to sh1t @ home on 3meg, im getting constant disconnections which makes skype etc unusable, such a joke of a company

Praetorian

The solution stinks. Why should I have to give up half my upload and some of my download speed? My line is perfectly capable of keeping the high speed and reducing the interleaving by at least half.

watty

The higher speeds create more interference to other lines. As the number of users on a multipair cable rises you have to increase interleave or decrease speed to achieve same SNR.

You can only run at full speed and no interleaving according to line spec if no other users in the same cable bundle. A dirty secret of DSL performance

crawler

thelastangryman wrote: »

You know how long that would take?

There are loads of technologies that can dynamically interrogate lines and assign the best line profile automatically...

Sponge Bob

There are technologies and the DSL gear in the exchange is capable of very sophisticated per line 'tweaks' but Eircom have not linked these to the provisioning system .

They have instead opted for a single profile for a single product approach which is why all 7.6mbit customers have ultra high interleaf irrespective of the merits of not doing so on short lines or high quality lines . The 7.6mbit profile setup is optimised for lines that are c. 1.5-2 miles long on average, this is madness .

Having complete drones in the customer facing role in Ireland and then outsourcing your technical support to Bangalore it is unsurprising that they have adopted this single product single profile approach.

I am not confident that the new product will make much of a difference. It appears to be a marketing / pr kludge .

Those who can would be well advised to move to more responsive and adaptible companies who have technically competent staff in a customer facing role ....like Smart and Digiweb ( Metro not DSL) and even BT Ireland in certain cases ( as long as you keep ringing back until you get them :cool: that is )

The best solution for this would be to put 7.6 meg customers on the ADSL2+ gear (where available), then they could turn the interleaving down. But this is Eircom we're talking about. :mad:

Praetorian

Tazz I think it depends on your exchange, and the ISP your with. I've heard of alot of contention like issues with BT for example, yet only on some exchanges.

The 1 profile for all lines at a set speed is a lazy & stupid solution. Not all lines are the same. My pings are ridiculous now yet only a couple of months ago I had amongst the best pings on boards.ie. What is the problem with making a couple more profiles Eircom?

I agree with you 100% Karsini.

Gonzo

given the current situation that eircom wont put home users on adsl2+ because most of the exchanges are not even setup for adsl2+ yet, I think it would have been best that Eircom brought out this gamers package at 5120/512k and had interleving low both directions. Gamers dont need 7meg yet 3meg is kinda low. The whole point of a gamers package is to have either low interleving or fastpath. I might be wrong but from the sound of things a high interleving download and low interleving upload is hardly gonna change the pings at all, maybe shave 5ms off an already very high ping or am i wrong? If anyone switchs to this package soon I would love to see some ping results to boards.ie and UK servers.

azzeretti

Sponge Bob wrote: »

technically competent staff in a customer facing role ....like Smart and Digiweb

I am laughing my ass of at this......I called Smart last week because a customer of mine wanted to switch over. They sent him out a Thomson router, one which I have never seen before. I had setup seperate VLANs on this site and needed to add a static route to the router to get back to one of the subnets. I couldn't figure this madness of a router (weird GUI etc..) out, so I called Smart.

The technician insisted that there was "no such thing as a static route" and "do you mean Static IP address". I assured him I meant Static Route and he put me on hold. He came back a few minutes later to tell me that no one in his office had ever heard of a Static Route and then....THEN put me on conference with a colleague to ridicule me about the non-existence of a "Static Route"

Sorry for the hijack.....but Smart and technically competent don't go, I'm afraid!

Turns out the Router is "locked" and you can't add a static route to it?

Praetorian

Anyone tried the "new" speed yet?

Gonzo

yep wondering myself has anyone moved onto this package and what are the pings like is there any improvement at all?

Ya im on the package ans no improvement with the pings, still 30-45 to boards.ie, speed is 7168/384 cant be bothered doin a speedtest, i think they just changed my speed and didnt change the interleaving or anything the stupid ***** :mad:

Jumpy

azzeretti wrote: »

I am laughing my ass of at this......I called Smart last week because a customer of mine wanted to switch over. They sent him out a Thomson router, one which I have never seen before. I had setup seperate VLANs on this site and needed to add a static route to the router to get back to one of the subnets. I couldn't figure this madness of a router (weird GUI etc..) out, so I called Smart.

The technician insisted that there was "no such thing as a static route" and "do you mean Static IP address". I assured him I meant Static Route and he put me on hold. He came back a few minutes later to tell me that no one in his office had ever heard of a Static Route and then....THEN put me on conference with a colleague to ridicule me about the non-existence of a "Static Route"

Sorry for the hijack.....but Smart and technically competent don't go, I'm afraid!

Turns out the Router is "locked" and you can't add a static route to it?

Lol.

Tell them to "open their browser" then "enter www.google.com" then "search for static route".

Dont bother with the ISP tech support. The thompson website might have better details about configuring new routes.

Gonzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya im on the package ans no improvement with the pings, still 30-45 to boards.ie, speed is 7168/384 cant be bothered doin a speedtest, i think they just changed my speed and didnt change the interleaving or anything the stupid ***** :mad:

that sounds about right, I ping 45ms to boards so what your saying is a maximum of a 5 to 10ms ping improvement which is still very high and wont really make much of a difference to online gaming. Keeping the Download on high interleving and upload on low interleving is barely much different to the 7.6meg package. And they call this a gamers package? Eircom havent a clue. They shuda set the download rate at 4meg or 5meg at most and offering low interleving/fastpath both directions.

dopes eircom are, im fully sure there should be some kinda ping improvement but its the EXACT same they must have forgot to change my interleaving or somthin, ill ring them monday and tell them about this ****

Gonzo

they havent forgotten to change your interleaving depths... the fact is they are leaving them as they are for your download which is the majority of your connection and only changing it for your uploads which is very small in comparison so the ping change is barely noticeable if at all. They call it a gamers package and they only change one tiny setting while giving you a smaller upload limit, a joke thats what it is. The only way to get good gaming back is to change back to the 3 meg connection package and suffer a worse contention ratio and 30gig download limit instead of 50.

Ive finally decided that after a month of being on the 7.6meg package and only gettin 5meg with crap pings, along with eircom coming out with their solution for gamers which does nothing to fix it, that im gonna go back and downgrade back to the 3meg package so that i can have good pings again, its the only way.

bk

azzeretti wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack.....but Smart and technically competent don't go, I'm afraid!

Turns out the Router is "locked" and you can't add a static route to it?

It seems that the new router is locked so that Smart can deliver the new SmartVision Plus IPTV service over the router. They have their own static VLANs set on the Thomson router to work with the TV Set Top Box and it seems that they have locked down the router so that you can't fiddle with these settings.

Over on the Smart Telecom forums most people recommend replacing the Thomson router if you aren't going to use it it for IPTV, so you can access more settings.

Uploading a non locked firmware to the Thomson is another, non supported, option.

BTW there are some very technically competent people over in Smart, but in the NOC so you won't normally get to talk to them. Instead if you post over on the Smart Telecom forums, the admins who reply on the forum, are the engineers who really know their stuff.

Praetorian

What are Eircom like? Do they even understand the problem? Read my words Eircom, put the top residential packages on ADSL2+ equipment & fix our pings!

Gonzo

putting the top residential packages on adsl2+ is the obvious answer to fix everything but of course Eircom have only upgraded about half the exchanges to adsl2+ so they cant put us onto adsl2+. My exchange is one of the many not on adsl2+, is there plans to upgrade all exchanges to adsl2+? I know that the largest exchanges and all new exchanges are adsl2+ but what about the rest of us?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Ya im on the package ans no improvement with the pings, still 30-45 to boards.ie

I'm on 3MB with BT and pings for me to boards.ie are 10-15ms, new Eircom pack don't sound great.

Calebmcd

Same here

3mb BT

Pinging boards.ie [89.234.66.107] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 89.234.66.107: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=58
Reply from 89.234.66.107: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 89.234.66.107: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=58
Reply from 89.234.66.107: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 89.234.66.107:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 17ms, Average = 16ms

watty

Praetorian wrote: »

What are Eircom like? Do they even understand the problem? Read my words Eircom, put the top residential packages on ADSL2+ equipment & fix our pings!

That makes no sense. If they have ADSL2+ in an exchange, then it makes sense for everyone to be on it. Otherwise no-one can be on it.

ADSL2+ nor VDSL does not solve the issue interleaving is increased to solve, though the performance at less than 1.5km is progressively better. There are new techniques to reduce pair crosstalk at higher speeds but these are not fully commercialised yet. It doesn't remove the need for interleaving.

The issue is increasing crosstalk as more users on a multipair cable near the exchange get DSL. The crosstalk is worse for users at higher speeds, to/from basic speed users also. So ADSL2+ of itself doesn't remove the problem.

Praetorian

They can't have everyone on it because they don't have enough cards in some of the exchanges, but the vast majority of people are on the lower end packages so moving the high end residential people to the adsl2+ cards shouldn't be a problem numbers wise.

I know a couple of people on ADSL2+ in and around 8m/bit to 10m/bit speeds and their pings & QOS are far superior. In fact one of them was using an ADSL1 modem just below 8m/bit with smart good strong line & he just swapped out his modem and his ping was instantly reduced by half. I know Smart use lots of different profiles, but ADSL2+ definitely gives them more scope for improvements to ping and QOS.

What would your solution to the problem be Watty?

Gerard_Smith

I'm tempted by this. My ping is consistently 45 on my 3mb connection so the prospect of seeing an improvement combined with faster download speeds is very appealing.

PogMoThoin

Gerard_Smith wrote: »

I'm tempted by this. My ping is consistently 45 on my 3mb connection so the prospect of seeing an improvement combined with faster download speeds is very appealing.

Nope, no improvement for You as there's no high interleaving on the 3meg package, only on the 7.6meg so Your pings would get even worse

Gonzo

and the so called gamers package is also on high interleving, its everybit as useless as the 7.6meg package for gaming. stayng on the 3meg package is the only way for gamers.

Gerard_Smith

Damn, that 50gb download limit is still an annoyingly tempting carrot on that stick.

PogMoThoin

What limit, Eircom don't enforce their limit?

See below, I'm always more than twice the limit, my limit went from 30 to 50GB in July. No warning, emails, throttling or charges

Gerard_Smith

I'd heard that but never tested it. I've only gone over my download limit once.

[NER-HQ]Yoda

I play cod4, im with BT. I got upgraded free form a 3mb connection to a 7.6 mb connection, resulting in my ping going up from 40 to 75 . I couldnt understand this so on advise of a bt tech, I downgraded to the 3 mb again and low and behold my ping was back to normal, running at 35-40 mps. Everything was fine for about a month.

Just over a week ago at approx 8.30pm my ping shot up to 240-280, I couldnt understand it. I checked everything, nothing new running , no unauthorised scans, nothing. Then at 10pm ping went back down to normal. This has been happening now for a week. BT have asked me to do tracerts and ping tests ans send them off to them which I have done. Still no better, ive rang them 3 times and talked to tech support, ive done more ping and tracerts, if its not sorted this coming week im gonna leave BT. ....but where do I go then???

e-Mo0?

[NER-HQ]Yoda wrote: »

Just over a week ago at approx 8.30pm my ping shot up to 240-280, I couldnt understand it.

Kinda same thing happening here but im on the 2meg bt package, its becoming a bit of a joke at this stage running out of ideas, might have to upgrade to the 20:1 contention ratio which i cant afford!!

[NER-HQ]Yoda

[NER-HQ]Yoda wrote: »

I play cod4, im with BT. I got upgraded free form a 3mb connection to a 7.6 mb connection, resulting in my ping going up from 40 to 75 . I couldnt understand this so on advise of a bt tech, I downgraded to the 3 mb again and low and behold my ping was back to normal, running at 35-40 mps. Everything was fine for about a month.

Just over a week ago at approx 8.30pm my ping shot up to 240-280, I couldnt understand it.

I'm in the same boat as you. I was on 3MB with BT, upgrade wrecked my speeds so I downgraded back to 3MB, problem solved, but for the past week speeds & transfer rates drop and high pings from 140ms+ at around 5pm - 7pm till the same hours of the morning. Never had an issue with my broadband till Eircoms "bright stupid idea" upgrades, getting fed up at this stage now.

Eircom should never of bothered, and to be honest with you they should issue an apology to all affected BB customers, refund and get their fingure out and sort something out fast (they had long enough to test everything out, but that doesn't look to be the case) :mad:

e-Mo0?

Must be something that can be done it really is a huge mess and I'm really getting sick of it !! Anyone i can complain to lol?

e-Mo0?

e-Mo0? wrote: »

Must be something that can be done it really is a huge mess and I'm really getting sick of it !! Anyone i can complain to lol?

Comreg are a waste of time for a start.

hitbit

Hi,
I am a bit lost on the tech side and would welcome the members opinions.
I currently have UTV 3MB bundle. I am considering switching to Eircom who are currently offering a better bundle. 7Mb Free Landline Calls, Free Meteor calls etc.
I must say I have never had any downtime with UTV and as far as I can see my downloads are quite quick.
I have just run a Blacknight speedtest which reported the following,
Download Speed 5763Kbps
Upload Speed 571 Kbps
Quality of Service 81%
Maximum Delay 83ms
Round Trip Time 45ms
Upstream Jitter 0.3ms
Upstream Packet Loss 0%
Upstream Packet Order 100%
Upstream Discards 0%.
Is this good or bad, Do these results suggest I would benefit from a move to Eircom or do they say stay with UTV.

hitbit

JNive

Well, its definitely a little better on Magnet ADSL2+ in Cork. Ping to first hop on magnet network = 25ms. Sync speed = 15mbps/1mbps

Ping to boards.ie is about 35ms or so.

http://www.irishisptest.com:443/myspeed/db/report?id=269612

PogMoThoin

hitbit wrote: »

Hi,
I am a bit lost on the tech side and would welcome the members opinions.
I currently have UTV 3MB bundle. I am considering switching to Eircom who are currently offering a better bundle. 7Mb Free Landline Calls, Free Meteor calls etc.
I must say I have never had any downtime with UTV and as far as I can see my downloads are quite quick.
I have just run a Blacknight speedtest which reported the following,
Download Speed 5763Kbps
Upload Speed 571 Kbps
Quality of Service 81%
Maximum Delay 83ms
Round Trip Time 45ms
Upstream Jitter 0.3ms
Upstream Packet Loss 0%
Upstream Packet Order 100%
Upstream Discards 0%.
Is this good or bad, Do these results suggest I would benefit from a move to Eircom or do they say stay with UTV.

hitbit

You are already on the upto 7.6Mbit package as your download speed is just under 6Mbit (5763Kbps) and You have 571Kbps upload. Other than price there is no advantage of the change to Eircom as this is the package (the upto 7.6Mbit) is the one thats affected by high interleaving and latency problems (which You already have).

hitbit

Hi Guys
Thanks for the info. UTV only claim 3 Meg and must have upped the speed without upping the price. In 6 years I have never had downtime nor lost a connection. Generally speaking UTV are quite good and easy to deal with though I do have one complaint. Errorcom disconnected my phone in ERROR while replacing a pole in the street and refused point blank to fix it as I had a UTV line. UTV were not very helpful and refused to offer me a refund for the four weeks my line was out. Comreg are a joke, big joke, huge................... Now Errorcom did not fix the problem. My wife seen an Eircom engineer coming out of a neighbors house, explained the problem, he kindly climbed the pole and fixed the problem in less than 3 minutes. It appears the pole fitters has switched the wires and not bothered checking to see if things were right or wrong before they left. I wrote to Errorcom suggesting they promote the helpful engineer with an interest in his company to the position of MD.

hitbit

KoKane

I'm in Drogheda.
BT
3mb line

We are still awaiting the free "upgrades" here. (well I am)

But I dont think I fcking want it now.
Allready my pings are double and a bit


+1 angry gamer.

hitbit

I mailed Eircom about their offers as I had some questions regarding issues of service, quality etc raised here on Boards. They must be fully booked up, no vacancies, as they have not bothered to reply. This reminds of the dark days when the Dept of Posts and Telegraphs ruled supreme, 6 year waiting list for a phone.
Methinks I'll stick with UTV.

hitbit