Police & Politics

metman

Police chief rules out Met role



Sir Norman Bettison said he was "staying put" in his current job.

The chief constable of West Yorkshire has said he will not consider becoming the next Met commissioner because of the threat of "political interference". Sir Norman Bettison said the "dislodging" of Sir Ian Blair was "a demonstration of political will", adding: "Along this road lies danger." Sir Ian announced his resignation on Thursday, citing a lack of support from London Mayor Boris Johnson. The home secretary has accused the mayor of acting without authority. Mr Johnson, who has taken over as chairman of the Metropolitan Police Authority, said the force needed "new leadership and a new clarity of purpose".

'Lame duck'

Mr Bettison, who joined the police in 1972, had been viewed as a possible candidate for the role of Met commissioner. But on Friday he released a statement saying he was "staying put" and warning there could be "dangerous consequences" if chief constables were increasingly unable to act independently.

"I am not prepared to set aside my professional judgement and integrity, forged over 36 years, in order to meet short-term political expediency," he said. I came to this conclusion after a great deal of thought and after consulting many, many people.

"The dislodging of Ian Blair is a demonstration of political will. Along this road lies danger. I am therefore staying put."

Mr Bettison said any chief constable who, like Sir Ian, lost the confidence of his Police Authority was inevitably "a lame duck".

"The real threat lies in the ambition which seems to be shared by all three major political parties at the moment. The determination to make the police service more accountable to elected representatives. What that means is bringing the police service under greater political control."

Sir Ian will step down on 1 December. His deputy, Sir Paul Stephenson, is understood to be the mayor's favoured candidate to take over the job, but Ken Jones, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, has refused to rule himself out of the running.

***************************

Anyone who watches The Wire will have seen the striking similarities in Sir Ian's departure at the 'request' of the Mayor to that of the Chief of Police being sacked by the Mayor of Baltimore on the show.

I think its refreshing to see one Chief, Sir Norman (above), taking a different approach and telling it how it is. If only every senior officer thought this way!

Trojan911

Blair is no loss. Two faced & spineless spring to mind..... (Oohh, just like a politician) :eek:

The Chief Constable is right to stay put rather than becoming a political puppet on a string.

deadwood

metman wrote: »

Anyone who watches The Wire will have seen the striking similarities in Sir Ian's departure at the 'request' of the Mayor to that of the Chief of Police being sacked by the Mayor of Baltimore on the show.

As if!
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

TheNog

Policing and Politics do not make good bedfellows

I'm not going to say I know the ins and outs of has been happening across the water so I will find out now.

But I will say I am all for accountability but any police force should be accountable to the people they serve, not to any elected representative.

metman

The contenders to fill the role:

SIR PAUL STEPHENSON
Sir Ian Blair's deputy at the Metropolitan Police will take over as acting head should no candidate be appointed by the time he leaves.

Sir Paul began his career with Lancashire Constabulary in 1975 and, after becoming a superintendent, spent time with the Royal Ulster Constabulary.
In 1994 he was appointed assistant chief constable of Merseyside and then deputy chief constable of Lancashire five years later. That appointment led him to take the constabulary's top job in July 2002. Three years later he moved to the Met, where he became Sir Ian Blair's successor as deputy commissioner. His responsibilities include strategy, modernisation and performance. Sir Paul was awarded the Queen's Policing Medal in 2000.

SIR HUGH ORDE
Sir Hugh is another Metropolitan Police high-flyer - and one of the most politically astute chief officers in the country.

In 2002 he was made chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) - one of the most politically-charged jobs in the UK.
It was his task to oversee the massive scale of reforms to the former Royal Ulster Constabulary in an effort to win Catholic and nationalist support - a critical plank of Northern Ireland's peace process. Before taking up the role, he was responsible for running the day-to-day operations of a hugely controversial probe into allegations of collusion between loyalist paramilitaries and security forces. Sir Hugh's experience at the Met includes managing major crimes, working closely on the fallout of the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry.

BERNARD HOGAN-HOWE
The current chief constable of Merseyside Police is another career high-flyer with a masters degree in law from Oxford.

Mr Hogan-Howe joined South Yorkshire Police in 1979 and, after a string of promotions, went on to implement a "comprehensive reorganisation" of the force. In 1997 he moved to Merseyside as an assistant chief constable and commanded major public events including the Grand National at Aintree racecourse and the Open Golf Tournament. In 2001 he moved to the Met as an assistant commissioner and oversaw a major expansion in its numbers.
Three years later he was rewarded with the top job in Merseyside.He was awarded an OBE in 2001 and knighted in 2005.

IAN JOHNSTON
The British Transport Police are responsible for the security of the railway system in the UK and since 2001 the chief constable has been Ian Johnston.

Mr Johnston is a former senior figure with the Met, having served as staff officer to the former commissioner Sir Peter Imbert. Mr Johnston moved to Kent police in 1989 before returning to the Met as a deputy assistant commissioner in 1992. He was promoted to assistant commissioner two years later. In 1995 he was awarded the Queen's Police Medal and made a CBE in 2001.

KEN JONES
Ken Jones is arguably the top politicians' police officer in the UK. He heads the Association of Chief Police Officers - the body which includes all 44 chief constables in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the Channel Islands.

Its website is a dry list of policy documents - but the body is extremely influential in setting national police priorities. Any Acpo chief needs the skills of a hardened police officer - and the diplomacy and drive to get things done in the corridors of power. Mr Jones is the former chief constable of Sussex and took up the three-year post at Acpo in April 2006. Born in Wales, he trained as an engineer before joining South Yorkshire Police. He has had various overseas postings, including anti-corruption investigations in Hong Kong and election monitoring in Zimbabwe.

MIKE FULLER
Mike Fuller, head of Kent Police, is England's first black chief constable.

He began his career as a Met Police cadet in 1975 and served both in uniform and as a detective. As a chief inspector he was credited with a scheme to combat burglary, seen as a forerunner of the much-publicised Operation Bumblebee. He helped set up the force's racial and violent crime task force after the Macpherson report accused the Met of 'institutional racism" following the murder of Stephen Lawrence. In 2001 he was promoted to deputy assistant commissioner and was made head of Operation Trident, the squad set up to target "black-on-black" gun violence in London. He became chief constable of Kent Police in 2004.

JOHN YATES
John Yates is an assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, responsible for operational services.

He came to public attention when he headed the long-running "cash for honours" inquiry, in which former prime minister Tony Blair was among those interviewed. He also headed the inquiry into Princess Diana's former butler, Paul Burrell. Mr Yates is a Met career officer with a long-established track record as a detective. He joined the service in 1981 and has been the senior investigating officer in more than 20 murders. Mr Yates has successfully navigated some difficult waters, including leading a massive internal corruption investigation that led to the jailing of six serving detectives. He was previously staff officer to Sir Paul Condon, the former Met commissioner. Mr Yates has long been considered a possible contender for the top job. He was awarded the Queen's Police Medal in 2006.

PETER NEYROUD
Peter Neyroud is the former chief constable of neighbouring Thames Valley Police and currently heads the National Policing Improvement Agency.

The body is responsible for a great deal of the police modernisation agenda Sir Ian was spearheading before he quit. This means Mr Neyroud has a clear idea of the challenges faced by the Met - but also the political and community expectations to reform the service for the 21st Century. He is one of a growing number of highly-educated chief officers with an Oxford degree and a Masters degree in crime and policing. Should he make the short list, he may be one of the few candidates not to have served with the Met to date. In a paper prepared for Downing Street, Mr Neyroud said policing had to be "re-invented" from top to bottom. This included a more strategic approach to major crime through bodies such as the Serious Organised Crime Agency - but at the same time a greater focus on neighbourhood policing that provides both reassurance and intelligence. In 2004 Mr Neyroud was awarded the Queen's Police Medal.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN
Sir Ronnie was the last chief constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, with years of frontline experience confronting threats to security from terrorism.

After leaving the post he went on to a number of high profile roles.
A graduate with further qualifications from the US's FBI academy, he left frontline policing in 2002 and went on to become the chief inspector of constabulary. Sir Ronnie was awarded an OBE in 1996 and knighted three years later. Sir Ronnie has been leading a key governmental review of policing for the home secretary that has recommended a raft of modernising measures, including cutting red tape for frontline officers and more neighbourhood policing strategies. The former RUC chief is known to be tough-talking and outspoken - when the RUC was criticised in a report into the 1998 Omagh bomb, Sir Ronnie said that if he thought for one moment the allegations were true he would "publicly commit suicide".

JIMMY MCNULTY
Irish whiskey. The stick. A good hard case. And women. These are some affinities in the life of Jimmy McNulty. A failed marriage, drunkenness, philandering, disturbing co-workers in the middle of the night, insubordination and backdooring aside, McNulty is good police — both in skill and heart — driven by a propensity for solving cases.

Having instigated the Baltimore Police Department's investigation of the Barksdale organization, McNulty defied anyone he had to for the sake of the case. Breaking the chain-of-command, he was sent to a no-hope detail with the Baltimore Harbor Patrol. At least he met Beadie Russell there. He also encountered another case worth building: 14 bodies in a shipment container landing him back in the detail. Closure in that case focused his attention back on the Barksdales and a war with a new westside rival. McNulty almost squeezed out a tear when Stringer was killed subverting his efforts on the case. It had become personal. He still managed to find some satisfaction when he handed Avon an arrest warrant citing Stringer as the named source of information. Accepting the victory he was given, McNulty settled into a patrol job in the Western — and a relationship with Officer Beatrice "Beadie" Russell — and started to put his life in order. But, when his collegial street adversary Preston "Bodie" Broadus dies under Marlo Stanfield's order, McNulty returns to Major Crimes and the turmoil that comes with it.

(Okay so I made the last one up )

Source

deadwood

I was losing interest when I didn't see my name on the list but this Mc Nulty candidate piqed my interest!

TheNog

metman wrote: »

JIMMY MCNULTY
Irish whiskey. The stick. A good hard case. And women. These are some affinities in the life of Jimmy McNulty. A failed marriage, drunkenness, philandering, disturbing co-workers in the middle of the night, insubordination and backdooring aside, McNulty is good police — both in skill and heart — driven by a propensity for solving cases.

Having instigated the Baltimore Police Department's investigation of the Barksdale organization, McNulty defied anyone he had to for the sake of the case. Breaking the chain-of-command, he was sent to a no-hope detail with the Baltimore Harbor Patrol. At least he met Beadie Russell there. He also encountered another case worth building: 14 bodies in a shipment container landing him back in the detail. Closure in that case focused his attention back on the Barksdales and a war with a new westside rival. McNulty almost squeezed out a tear when Stringer was killed subverting his efforts on the case. It had become personal. He still managed to find some satisfaction when he handed Avon an arrest warrant citing Stringer as the named source of information. Accepting the victory he was given, McNulty settled into a patrol job in the Western — and a relationship with Officer Beatrice "Beadie" Russell — and started to put his life in order. But, when his collegial street adversary Preston "Bodie" Broadus dies under Marlo Stanfield's order, McNulty returns to Major Crimes and the turmoil that comes with it.

I like him already. Lets start an internet campaign

metman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1VoK2VH_I0

McNulty and Bunk prequel :cool:

TheNog@4 - I agree. Its a bad idea when the line between a senior officer and politician is blurred. Whose interest is at heart? That of the public or the political party to which the officer is 'affiliated'? Too many of the senior brass spend more time ingratiating themselves to the politicians than looking after their troops and public

TheNog

metman wrote: »

TheNog@4 - I agree. Its a bad idea when the line between a senior officer and politician is blurred. Whose interest is at heart? That of the public or the political party to which the officer is 'affiliated'? Too many of the senior brass spend more time ingratiating themselves to the politicians than looking after their troops and public

What makes me laugh is the politicians who scream for accountability in the AGS usually hide behind lies and smokescreens when accountability comes a knocking on their door.

Eru

Orde would be a good candidate in my opinion but its based on limited knowledge of the runners and the organisation. I wouldn’t fancy Flanagan or Fuller being my boss to be honest. Despite what he may claim, Flanagan rose the ranks of a biased agency with questionable methods. He cannot pretend he didn’t at least witness this going on and while he may be extremely protective of his officers, he is tainted. Fuller, don’t want to appear one sided here but perhaps he owes a little too much to politicians already.

Its pretty clear that the Mayor wants to be able to order the police around and that’s not dangerous, it’s very dangerous. McDowell managed to get his feet under that table with our 2005 Act which people agreed to based on a few sections without knowing all of them. Its particularly sad as it took many years for An Garda Siochana to genuinely become free from political influence which time has now proved led to cases being dropped and investigations being frustrated. How many officers were transferred or blocked because of a 'word' or 'call' from a politician?

Sadly no police force is truly independent, we have to beg the government for funds, equipment, etc and anything that’s given comes with attachments. Likewise the service that’s delivered ultimately succeeds or fails due to government law, funding and restrictions.

deadwood

The scene: Nog Mansion, Nog Mountain.
Rainy Saturday afternoon. Nog is enjoying a fine brandy while posting on Boards, beside the open fire.

The nog submits his last post, hears an unusual crackle of interference on the t.v. screen. The dog cocks his ear up and Nog reaches for his 9v battery.
Then, as if a self-fulfilling prophesy, he looks to the door- "knock, knock".

He was regretting that last post already......

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

It ' s pretty clear that the Mayor wants to be able to order the police around and that’s not dangerous, it’s very dangerous.

I'm not even trying.
Standards Karl, standards!
(smartass:D)

TheNog

deadwood wrote: »

The scene: Nog Mansion, Nog Mountain.
Rainy Saturday afternoon. Nog is enjoying a fine brandy while posting on Boards, beside the open fire.

The nog submits his last post, hears an unusual crackle of interference on the t.v. screen. The dog cocks his ear up and Nog reaches for his 9v battery.
Then, as if a self-fulfilling prophesy, he looks to the door- "knock, knock".

He was regretting that last post already......

LOL

I will still stand by my opinions even when facing the governments "snatch teams". I will escape with the help of my McGyver copyrighted Swiss Army knife

metman

Karlito, good post. I think Orde would be a good candidate as well. I also agree that Sir Ronnie might be a bit too controversial on account of the background issues you raise (all scurrilous rumour no doubt ). The others, I don't know too much about myself tbh. However it wouldn't surprise me if the Met opts for the candidate best in keeping with its excessive political correctness :rolleyes:

Personally I think they should give Gene Hunt the job. He wouldn't be long sorting out the plonks from the planks.

*plonk = person of little or no knowledge: derogatory term for WPC/Banner.

Note for the hard of thinking: Gene Hunt is a fictional character.

metman

TheNog wrote: »

LOL

I will still stand by my opinions even when facing the governments "snatch teams". I will escape with the help of my McGyver copyrighted Swiss Army knife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w-oDZSLUrY

TheNog played by Richard Dean Anderson........:D

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

I'm not even trying.
Standards Karl, standards!
(smartass:D)

God damn it! I even copied and pasted into word for a spell check first :mad:

santosubito

TheNog wrote: »

Policing and Politics do not make good bedfellows

I'm not going to say I know the ins and outs of has been happening across the water so I will find out now.

But I will say I am all for accountability but any police force should be accountable to the people they serve, not to any elected representative.

Have a look at this link:

http://193.178.1.79/2005/en/act/pub/0020/sec0040.html#partii-chapv-sec40

The relevant section :

(2) The Garda Commissioner's duty under subsection (1) includes the duty to provide, on request by the Secretary General, any document in the power or control of the Garda Síochána, including material in the form of Garda records, statements made by members of the Garda Síochána and by other persons and reports.

So, this any minister, through the secretary general of the DoLRJE, can ask to see any Garda document. Anything at all.

Paulzx

Maybe i'm wrong here but is the Garda Commissioner not appointed by the government. Thats as political as it gets.

I'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong

eroo

Like it or not, police and military forces MUST be under the control of the Government. You guys and gals serve the people. Those people elected the Govt, entrusting them with all that entails.

santosubito

eroo wrote: »

Like it or not, police and military forces MUST be under the control of the Government. You guys and gals serve the people. Those people elected the Govt, entrusting them with all that entails.

Whoa, hold on there, Eroo. Surely you mean there must be democratic oversight of a politically independent national police force? But control? Some politician being able to demand to see whatever Garda file he or she wants? I don't think so. You trust politicians that much? Ray Burke was Justice Minister once, as was Charlie Haughey...

santosubito

Paulzx wrote: »

Maybe i'm wrong here but is the Garda Commissioner not appointed by the government. Thats as political as it gets.

I'm sure i'll be corrected if i'm wrong

Yes, but the problem with the above act is that it enshrines in law the power for the minister of the day to get to see what he wants.

metman

Have a look at this for non-political policing. Its an old clip but maybe we should offer this guy a job as Commissioner, he's the head of the equivalent of the GRA for the SFPD.

The background to the clip is that Officer Nick Burko was killed following a police pursuit of a wanted criminal with a long criminal history.

Look here, or if you can't get that link to work, here.

If only the Brass here had the stones this guy has.

Trojan911

metman wrote: »

If only the Brass here had the stones this guy has.

What a breath of fresh air this fella is, I doubt you will match him though as he is not spineless or two faced. He speaks what we citizens think.

TheNog

There is no doubt we do not have anyone in the AGS or GRA who stand up and be counted like that man above in the way he did it. It was a breath of fresh air.

The closet thing we have had to it in my memory was the tragic death of Tanya Corcoran and her son Zach which this tragedy was only supersceded by the total insensitivity and ineptness of a few tabloid newspapers. Supt Kevin Donohue's letter to the Sindo I feel was what was on everyone's mind in the country never mind in the Force.

http://www.garda.ie/press/2007/p13mar07.html

The Indo did publish this piece. Most of the comments are from very day people.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/garda-commissioner-gra-respond-to-news-report-on-garda-tragedy-123238.html

TheNog

eroo wrote: »

Like it or not, police and military forces MUST be under the control of the Government. You guys and gals serve the people. Those people elected the Govt, entrusting them with all that entails.

The only control the Government should have over the AGS and Military is for budgetary matters and ensuring the security of the state only. Day to day policing and decisions of same should be left internally to AGS and no more.

I have had experience of interference from a local politician which is seeking his pound of flesh from a decent young man who made a stupid mistake. It is totally uncalled for and as far as I'm concerned should not be tolerated by me, my super and I'm sure by the DPP either.

metman

Trojan911 wrote: »

What a breath of fresh air this fella is, I doubt you will match him though as he is not spineless or two faced. He speaks what we citizens think.

Agreed. Here people are too busy trying to further their own careers (often at the expense of their colleagues careers, health or even lives) to worry about putting things right and actually addressing the problems.

eroo

I didn't mean localised control or complete national control. I meant that the buck stops with the Govt, always has and always will. The only politicians who should have any authority over AGS are the MforJ and the Taioseach imo. Local councillors or TD's interfering is just wrong and something needs to be done about that, and there letters for prisoners.:mad:

metman

'No rush' urge for new Met chief

London Mayor Boris Johnson has urged Home Secretary Jacqui Smith not to rush into appointing a new Metropolitan police commissioner.

The mayor also said that he wanted to be involved in the shortlisting and final interviewing of candidates. Ms Smith alone would usually make the appointment after recommendations from the Metropolitan Police Authority (MPA), which Mr Johnson chairs. Sir Ian Blair resigned on Thursday, blaming the mayor's lack of support.

Met Deputy commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson will take over as acting head should no candidate be appointed by the time he steps down on 1 December.

In a letter sent to Ms Smith on Friday, the mayor noted the home secretary had informed him she was planning to stick to existing procedures in appointing a successor. But he urged caution before making a new appointment and advised instead "a pause to take stock" for the good of the organisation. Mr Johnson called for a "fairly lengthy consolidation period" for the Met to re-stabilise under the interim leadership of Deputy Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson after a period of "serious disruption". He also dismissed suggestions of a Tory plot to oust Britain's most senior police officer as "absolutely outlandish". There was no party political element, he insisted, but a chance to "increase operational effectiveness."

Ms Smith has accused the Mayor of acting without authority or respect by pushing Sir Ian out for political reasons. The normal procedure for removing the Met commissioner is that the MPA, its board of governors, must seek the Home Secretary's approval. Former Home Secretary David Blunkett said he feared that this set a precedent that every new London administration would mean a new police chief.

Source

Trojan911

eroo wrote: »

Local councillors or TD's interfering is just wrong and something needs to be done about that, and there letters for prisoners.:mad:

Spot on... These letters are a complete insult to victims. These TD's & Councillors have no right to interfere in the process of justice.

I would go as far as accusing them of attempting to pervert the course of justice when they write these letters, but I know I'd be pushing it a tad to far....

santosubito

eroo wrote: »

I didn't mean localised control or complete national control. I meant that the buck stops with the Govt, always has and always will. The only politicians who should have any authority over AGS are the MforJ and the Taioseach imo. Local councillors or TD's interfering is just wrong and something needs to be done about that, and there letters for prisoners.:mad:

Why whould the Taoiseach have authority over AGS? Why? Let the minister appoint the Commissioner and if he's doing a ****e job sack him or he - but being able to see files? That's a disgrace.

Eru

eroo wrote: »

I didn't mean localised control or complete national control. I meant that the buck stops with the Govt, always has and always will. The only politicians who should have any authority over AGS are the MforJ and the Taioseach imo. Local councillors or TD's interfering is just wrong and something needs to be done about that, and there letters for prisoners.:mad:

Charles Houghey was involved in one of the biggest gun smuggling operations on the state. One of the guns smuggled in was and still is suspected of being used to murder an off duty Garda. Government ensured that the people, the family and AGS never got justice or the truth.

Burke while Minister for Justice refused to bring in law as it would have allowed AGS to go after corrupt members of government. He also had a hand in punishing, shutting up and moving 'troublesome' Gardai who got in his and big businesses way.

If AGS had the independence it should have had you would not have needed an inquiry to expose all this after the act.

Now under the 2005 act the justice minister can look at any Garda file he wants at any stage. Think about it, Gardai dont have the ability to look at all Garda files. He is also not a sworn Garda subject to the same security, scrutiny or discipline as we are. He can read a file then blab all about it in the Dail. Use the information to cover himself or his colleagues and friends.

People wanted the Gardai to be accountable and not above the law but now the government is above the law. We are, in effect a government agency subject to government rule. Dangerous my friend, very dangerous.

deadwood

There are plans afoot to have District Officers made more accountable to local authorities too. Councillors will be able to confront them about ongoing issues such as antisocial behaviour. Should be interesting.

metman

This has been mooted here aswell, and is old news in the US. Here we've moved to neighbourhood policing teams. The idea of this is that there is a dedicated, accountable team in every locality, contactable and recognised by the local people (the old beat officer role with bells on). This team operates in conjunction with local authority and other agencies and its guided by local priorities. Its worked well in the US where its referred to as COPPS, community orientated policing & problem solving.

As you may have guessed I'm currently reading a US text on community policing. Its interesting to see how so many of our 'current' ideas were tried and either failed/succeeded in the US 10+ years ago.

deadwood

metman wrote: »

As you may have guessed I'm currently reading a US text on community policing. Its interesting to see how so many of our 'current' ideas were tried and either failed/succeeded in the US 10+ years ago.

For example?

Cards on the table - i'm a big fan of walking the beat. I do it as often as possible and always, without fail, have a stop'n'chat (i stole it from curb your enthusiasm).

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

For example?

Cards on the table - i'm a big fan of walking the beat. I do it as often as possible and always, without fail, have a stop'n'chat (i stole it from curb your enthusiasm).

Its amazing how you miss it when your stuck in a car / office / station all day isnt it?

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Its amazing how you miss it when your stuck in a car / office / station all day isnt it?

Old school.:cool:
it's a retro, post-modern, carbon footprint, down with the, like, kids maaaaaaan.
Mofo.
word.

metman

deadwood wrote: »

For example?

Cards on the table - i'm a big fan of walking the beat. I do it as often as possible and always, without fail, have a stop'n'chat (i stole it from curb your enthusiasm).

Well without getting into too much detail we're moving to Neighbourhood Policing Teams here (does what it says on the tin). I'm transferring out of the Met to another force to go to NPT in a specialist role (pending a move to something else). What the experience in the states has shown is that NPT or COPPS as its known there works, and works well. What hasn't worked in the US, which we're now moving to put in place, are community 'police offices/stations'. So setting up a police office in your local community centre. This here seems to be the gospel. Every friggin community centre has a police 'drop in' centre. This has not worked in the States and stats show that it makes zero impact on local crime figures. What does work is embedding local officers who know the local scum, and are given a free hand (within reason, after all it is the police) to tackle the key problems. This involves research and looking at where your response team spend most of their time and then addressing the key issues surrounding the calls to 999.

Bloody hell I sound like a guvnor. More beer quick!

deadwood

metman wrote: »

More beer quick!

My round. Mrs Deadwood keeps the bar open late.

I think it mightn't be a bad idea to open up a shopfront type office in some towns where 24 hour (i.e. 24 hour atch) stations may not be needed.
Keep the base and let the mobile units patrol/do the beat, but let one p.c./garda man the "shop" on the High Street to deal with forms, complaints (which can be divided amongst the units).
This duty could be shared around the unit. There are some multi-agency buildings here for tax/agriculture/maririme etc..so why not throw in a Garda office and then free up a few members to do the beat and (craaAAaazeeee otion, I know) investigate , like, stuff.

metman

deadwood wrote: »

My round. Mrs Deadwood keeps the bar open late.

I think it mightn't be a bad idea to open up a shopfront type office in some towns where 24 hour (i.e. 24 hour atch) stations may not be needed.
Keep the base and let the mobile units patrol/do the beat, but let one p.c./garda man the "shop" on the High Street to deal with forms, complaints (which can be divided amongst the units).
This duty could be shared around the unit. There are some multi-agency buildings here for tax/agriculture/maririme etc..so why not throw in a Garda office and then free up a few members to do the beat and (craaAAaazeeee otion, I know) investigate , like, stuff.

Yup from that perspective it might go down well with locals, as it does here. But from an operational policing point of view it has nil impact on local slags. You still need proactive patrols out getting hands into pockets, and thats what neighbourhood policing is all about....once you get past the gloss. Its old school beat coppering, with the addition of having neighbourhood teams multi-skilled to do their own PSU/Rapid Entry/MOE stuff for tackling everything, i.e, local crackhouses, without having to call upon team resources. That's the way things are here.

Here's the book I'm reading at the minute, interesting to gain a US perspective. Back from the future kinda sh*t.

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

I think it mightn't be a bad idea to open up a shopfront type office in some towns where 24 hour (i.e. 24 hour atch) stations may not be needed.
Keep the base and let the mobile units patrol/do the beat, but let one p.c./garda man the "shop" on the High Street to deal with forms, complaints (which can be divided amongst the units).

No no no no no! I work in one of those 'offices' and its an absolute disaster. You have people coming in while they wait for the bus to report they lost their phone in Donegal 3 weeks ago and sure, why not make the report while waiting for the bus back to Cork.

Then you have the same with passports, "but Garda I dont know my local station" So? How the **** did you find the local boozer and shops?

Every lost phone insurance form has my bloody name on it because they bought the damn thing in Dublin city and in turn get sent to me, every bloody crime that happens is my investigation because every single shop sends them to me instead of ringing and getting a beat to, shock horror, go where the ****ing crime actually happened. I also get all the phone calls because guess what? People ask 11850 for the local Dublin station and hey presto, they are moaning in my ear.

Bus stops, directions, general idiot advise. Im not a bloody tax inspector, bus inspector and no, I dont give a **** if you just want a chat while waiting for said bus.

50% of the stuff I deal with is nothing to do with me but its easier to ask me than actually look. 40% is nothing to do with my bloody district and the remaining 10% could and should be reported at the time in the place it happened.

And in case you havent figured it out, I work in the camera room on O'Connell street but I dont actually get to monitor the cameras because of the above.

Oh sweet god, I need an aspirin just thinking about it.

TheNog

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

No no no no no! I work in one of those 'offices' and its an absolute disaster. You have people coming in while they wait for the bus to report they lost their phone in Donegal 3 weeks ago and sure, why not make the report while waiting for the bus back to Cork.

Then you have the same with passports, "but Garda I dont know my local station" So? How the **** did you find the local boozer and shops?

Every lost phone insurance form has my bloody name on it because they bought the damn thing in Dublin city and in turn get sent to me, every bloody crime that happens is my investigation because every single shop sends them to me instead of ringing and getting a beat to, shock horror, go where the ****ing crime actually happened. I also get all the phone calls because guess what? People ask 11850 for the local Dublin station and hey presto, they are moaning in my ear.

Bus stops, directions, general idiot advise. Im not a bloody tax inspector, bus inspector and no, I dont give a **** if you just want a chat while waiting for said bus.

50% of the stuff I deal with is nothing to do with me but its easier to ask me than actually look. 40% is nothing to do with my bloody district and the remaining 10% could and should be reported at the time in the place it happened.

And in case you havent figured it out, I work in the camera room on O'Connell street but I dont actually get to monitor the cameras because of the above.

Oh sweet god, I need an aspirin just thinking about it.

Ha ye think that's bad????????

Down my way we are funeral directors, butchers, firemen, ambo driver ( ), shepards for when cattle get on the road, pet finders (when dogs get lost), bus instructors (Guard wheres the nearest bus stop? ACROSS THE BLOODY STREET!!!!!!!), closers of gates (cos lazy people wont close the field gates even though they complain its dangerous), postmen (serving summons), message boys (people who ring 999 and ask " Will ye give a message to soanso"), weather men (woman from Cork asked me "guard whats the weather like up there?") and much more

Some people would drive a man to drink and if that man already drank they'd drive him off it.