how low should you go...

estebancambias

doing a squat and what do you reckoni should be squatting? ive been in the gym for over a year and still havent got to doing squats with weights.

should i use the smith machine?

Malteaser!

If you haven't squatted before then now is not the time to be thinking about what weights you should be lifting.

You should focus on getting your form spot on first - ensuring that you're going below parallel, keeping your chest up etc. Start by just using the bar and when you've got the technique down you can begin adding the weight.

At that stage there's still no particular amount you 'should' be lifting, whatever you're comfortable with really. A lot of people make the mistake in the beginning of loading on the weight until it's far too heavy and end up never learning how to squat properly.

estebancambias

where is the strength needed to come from when doing a squat? is it the upper muscles of the leg? if so i'd reckon i could squat pretty heavy because i have well developed upper leg but my lower leg muscle is ****.

sorry i used to know the terms for the individual parts but now i forget human atamony, cant even spell the word anymore.

brianthebard

It involves the whole body to one degree or another. Obviously you don't build a big chest with the squat, but if you have a weak back or hams you will find that out pretty quickly.

tlev

Lol, there is a good saying, a half squat is half a squat not done.

Go down all the waaaaayyyy! Use less weights than for half squats though.

By going down the whole way, you are completing your range of motion and brining more muscles into play, like your hams. Would you only do a bench press half way?

Money Shot

I reckon you should go down as low as you are comfortable going, and no more. Personally, from experience, I wouldn't recommend people with knee or even ankle issues attempting to go below parallel, as it's simply not worth it. I would also say that most tall people, like myself, might also find in uncomfortable going below parallel purely on an anatomical level.

I honestly don't understand the obsession on this forum with going as low as possible below parallel. I think most people will get all the results they need going to parallel, and any benefits of going below are pretty negligible when put against the fact that most people's form will not be perfect and thus there will be a greater risk of injury.

Malteaser!

Money Shot wrote: »

I would also say that most tall people, like myself, might also find in uncomfortable going below parallel purely on an anatomical level.

Just on that point, being quite tall myself, I would argue that the reason it's so uncomfortable to get to parallel in the beginning is due to poor flexibility.

When I first started squatting it was very uncomfortable to reach parallel and when I look back on videos of myself from the beginning, most of them were a mile high. I just started stretching and practicing with super light weight, adding more weight gradually and eventually I reached the stage where I was squatting relatively good numbers to depth with no issues.

I honestly don't understand the obsession on this forum with going as low as possible below parallel.

I don't know if that was directed at me or not but I'll clarify the point I was making anyway. When I say a person should work on going below parallel, I don't mean they should be trying to touch the ground with their arse or anything. An inch or two below parallel is more what I had in mind.

Roper

Don't put anything on your back if you can't do an air (unweighted) squat. If you're unsure of depth you should put a few weeks in doing air squats, getting the feel of the depth, where your feet should be, back arch etc. After that, walk into the gym, hang your coat on the smith machine and use just the bar until you're comfortable with that, then start to add weight in small increments.

Add weight too soon and you may suffer.

brianthebard

tlev wrote: »

Lol, there is a good saying, a half squat is half a squat not done.

Go down all the waaaaayyyy! Use less weights than for half squats though.

By going down the whole way, you are completing your range of motion and brining more muscles into play, like your hams. Would you only do a bench press half way?

Lolz have you been in a gym lately? How many people don't
do have a bench?

Money Shot wrote: »

I reckon you should go down as low as you are comfortable going, and no more. Personally, from experience, I wouldn't recommend people with knee or even ankle issues attempting to go below parallel, as it's simply not worth it. I would also say that most tall people, like myself, might also find in uncomfortable going below parallel purely on an anatomical level.

I honestly don't understand the obsession on this forum with going as low as possible below parallel. I think most people will get all the results they need going to parallel, and any benefits of going below are pretty negligible when put against the fact that most people's form will not be perfect and thus there will be a greater risk of injury.

How tall are you? I'm six foot and can get down quite easily.

kevpants

Money Shot wrote: »

I honestly don't understand the obsession on this forum with going as low as possible below parallel. I think most people will get all the results they need going to parallel, and any benefits of going below are pretty negligible when put against the fact that most people's form will not be perfect and thus there will be a greater risk of injury.

Ahh now. You can't blame the injury on going below parallel then it's the bad form.

Theres a big difference between going below and above parallel as well. It's like saying having someone holding the bar when you're benching isn't a big deal because you're still doing the movement. Getting out of the hole in the squat really tests you. Pussying out of it is just a waste of time IMO.

99% of gym goers are in perfect physical condition to squat below parallel. Every second person seems to have a knee injury that precludes them from squatting. I don't buy it TBH.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Ahh now. You can't blame the injury on going below parallel then it's the bad form.

Theres a big difference between going below and above parallel as well. It's like saying having someone holding the bar when you're benching isn't a big deal because you're still doing the movement. Getting out of the hole in the squat really tests you. Pussying out of it is just a waste of time IMO.

99% of gym goers are in perfect physical condition to squat below parallel. Every second person seems to have a knee injury that precludes them from squatting. I don't buy it TBH.

+1

Brian?

kevpants wrote: »

Ahh now. You can't blame the injury on going below parallel then it's the bad form.

99% of gym goers are in perfect physical condition to squat below parallel. Every second person seems to have a knee injury that precludes them from squatting. I don't buy it TBH.

I am 99% sure I read somewhere, possibly starting strength, that squatting below parallel has zero negative effect on the knees. If it was bad for the knees I wouldn't be able to walk after squatting as I have damaged cartilage in my left knee, in fact the best thing I ever did for rehab of that knee was to increase the amount I squat.

I agree with Malteaser as well, squatting to bleow parallel is not about height, its about flexability. I am 6ft 3 and was extremely inflexable, I had a lot of trouble squatting below parrallel. Lots of stretching and lots of squatting with an empty bar and its gotten way way easier and I haven't gotten any shorter as far as I can see.

puntosporting

I agree with the knee injury i can comfortable squat decent weight with torn up knee cartilage!
To be honest maybe due to the compression on the knee during the excercise it feels batter after doing heavy sqauts!
The correct form should mean that you dont move about under the bar knees should not be wobbling about if they are lower the weight i reckon i find that sqauts are realy helping my knee to stabilise itself better after a recent injury i had!

Hanley

Guys, squats done below parallel are going to be SAFER and EASIER on your knees than those done above parallel. When you stop above parallel all the compressive forces are directly on your knee joint, and it takes a hell of a pounding as a result. Below parallel you hamstrings and quads act against each other to effectively keep most of the stress off of your knees.

Sonderval

From personal experience, I can squat slightly below parallel - once you pass that transition point, its not bad on the knees. Catch is that I do have an issue with my right knee which puts out a fair amount of pain when I approach parallel. Its not practical for me to go below the 90 degrees when the run up to it is notably sore.

99% of gym goers are in perfect physical condition to squat below parallel. Every second person seems to have a knee injury that precludes them from squatting. I don't buy it TBH.

I know a few physios. Next to back pain, knee issues are their bread and butter from what they have told me. I'm only 26, but I've already suffered from ITB on the left knee and a hamstring tightness on the kneecap issue on the right one. I would refute your 99% claim, as I know other lifters with knee issues.

This isn't a case of 'genetics' making people fat type situation, which is spurious claim.

kevpants

Sonderval wrote: »

I know a few physios. Next to back pain, knee issues are their bread and butter from what they have told me. I'm only 26, but I've already suffered from ITB on the left knee and a hamstring tightness on the kneecap issue on the right one. I would refute your 99% claim, as I know other lifters with knee issues.

This isn't a case of 'genetics' making people fat type situation, which is spurious claim.

Don't get me wrong, the knee is a sh1t joint that will give you hassle at some stage. I have an issue with my right knee where the day after running or a football match it can literally go from under me, I go from standing to lying on the ground in less than a second with no warning.

What I'm saying is it is always thrown out there as the excuse not to squat. And in most cases it is just that, an excuse. Squat aren't bad for knees.

conceited

The knee is a marvel of evolution and is a brilliant design.
Common sense would tell you that you need to evenly build muscles around the knee to protect it.Squats need to be done to protect your knee's.

brianon

Hanley wrote: »

When you stop above parallel all the compressive forces are directly on your knee joint, and it takes a hell of a pounding as a result. Below parallel you hamstrings and quads act against each other to effectively keep most of the stress off of your knees.

Yeah afaik...above parallel means you engage the quads only and apply pressuse on your lnees in one direction. Below parallel then allows the hams to apply pressure (pull) the other direction in a lovely sort of harmony.
Above parallel/Quarter squats can do knee damage.

Roper

There's only one anatomically correct way to squat and that's parrallel or below. Anything else is just immoral, and deserves all the derision which is heaped upon it. In my new world order (it's coming) all books and media pertaining to half squats will be burned.

brianthebard

How many of the people posting here with problems going below parallel are wearing runners when squatting?

Dragan

kevpants wrote: »

Squat aren't bad for knees.

But bad squats most assuredly are.

wasabi

brianthebard wrote: »

How many of the people posting here with problems going below parallel are wearing runners when squatting?

Good point, much easier to squat in a shoe with a hard sole, preferably with a slight heel too. The hard sole thing goes for all weighted lower body exercises, a couple of years ago I tweaked my knee doing weighted lunges in runners, switched to converse and never looked back.

FWIW I squat deep about 4 times a week and my knees are perfect. Running on the other hand screws my knees right up, wouldn't last 4 sessions before something was badly wrong.

kevpants

Dragan wrote: »

But bad squats most assuredly are.

Too right. When I say squatting I mean a full squat. Going at it half arsed is a problem.

tribulus

Yeah I don't buy the past injuries thing either in most cases.

I suffered and still do from ankles prone to spraining, I regularly get ITB problems when I run or play sport and I've hurt my SI joint before.

It certainly hasn't stopped me squatting to reasonable depth and I've even done some semi-decent numbers for my weight.