Cooking with a conscience?

coolaboola

More and more often these days I find myself faced with ethical questions regarding the food I eat. I was wondering if other boardsers find themselves asking the same questions and how to they address them. Like:

Animal welfare questions - choosing free range chicken, eggs and, more recently for me as I've learned more about pork production, pork and pork products over their intensively-reared counterparts. While free-range and organic eggs are widely available, free range chicken is not so much (hurry up, Lidl!) and it hugely expensive compared to their battery counterparts (€12 for a free range chicken versus €5 for a battery chicken. And a whopping €20 for an organic, free range chicken!) I have to go to a specialist butcher for free range pork products and even then the choice is limited - no delicious parma! And what about fish and over-fishing of the ocean's fish stocks and destructive fishing techniques? Cod's off the menu for me as a result.

Environmental questions - ooh, this is a doozy! Eating seasonally produced, reducing meat consumption (meat takes huge amounts of energy and water to produce and the animals produce, ahem, emissions that are harmful to the environment), organic versus conventionally produced foods, food airmiles (I confess I bend the airmiles rules quite a lot to save myself from a diet of potatoes and turnips! But I try to restrict myself to produce from continental Europe - at least that's not that far!)

Social issues - choosing Fairtrade produce over non-Fairtrade equivalents. I now get Fairtrade tea, coffee, chocolate (yum!), bananas and sugar on a regular basis.

With the current economic climate I'm guessing I'm not the only one faced with a bit of a dilemma when it comes to making ethical food choices. Often (usually) the ethical choice also means the more expensive choice.

(However, that's not always the case - seasonal produce is usually cheaper as well as more environmentally sound, a more vegetarian diet is easier on my purse as well as my health.)

I am also finding that organic and Fairtrade products are becoming more and more widely available as demand for them increases. I now do most of my shopping at Lidl. Even they seem to be incresasing their selection of organic and Fairtrade products week by week. Yay! All the better to keep me shopping there.

Anyway, I was wondering if other boarders shopped with a similar mental ethical checklist? Or I'm I overthinking things and indulging in middle-class smuggery (is that a word?!)?

olaola

I think I would choose certain products not because they are ethical, but because they would be the best at that time. For instance, local and seasonal products. Irish meat fed and hung well. For me, it's more the quality then the ethics! But they do go hand in hand… a happy pig is a yummy pig

I am sceptical regarding certain terms that I would call 'marketing' ploys. Organic, airmiles, carbon this and fair trade that. I think these terms are bandied around to sell products. You can buy a locally produced out of season organic vegetable - but your imported African grown alternative may have used far less energy in its production!

For me - local and seasonal is my thing. I try to buy Irish products where possible and feasible.

Mr Magnolia

Great post coolaboola, fair play.

As far as my shopping goes, I try, it's not always easy as you rightly point out.

Animal Welfare, I would buy free range products and will continue to do so where possible. I'm not from Dublin or another large City so picking up the free range option is not easy as far as chicken and the like is concerned. Ordering in advance can be an option but it's not always practical. I certainly don't avoid non-free-range product and tbh most of my meat diet is whatever's in the butcher's window so to speak.

I'm a big coffee drinker and I've been very confused over the whole fairtrade thing and how it's marketed. I tend to stick to coffee's that claim to have 'paid a fair price' for their beans rather than a 'Fair Trade' sticker.

I generally go for seasonal food anyway.

coolaboola

I know what you mean about the airmiles/energy dilemma Mr. M. Not to mention the organic but not local dilemma.

As for skepticism, I agree. I suspect that there's a lot of greenwashing and whatever the ethical equivalent is going on in the marketing of many of these products.

I am, however, a bit more confident about the Fairtrade lable. But only because my sister has a fairtrade and organic fashion lable and I got to see the efforts she had to go to to earn the Fairtrade lable. (There's plenty you could say about the Fairtrade people being a pain in the bum but they are stringent - they have to be as their whole existence is based on confidence in their ethos and integrity) So I'm happy to go for Fairtrade coffee, tea, choc, bananas and sugar (and clothes )

Honey-ec

I would tend to take the same approach as olaola - I keep "local and seasonal" as my guidelines as much as possible, and by doing that, the ethics tend to take care of themselves.

Some things that I consider absolute staples, such as garlic, onions and peppers, I am obviously going to have to buy imported at certain times of the year. However, I do find myself shaking my head when I see people buying fresh strawberries in January... I can't decide if that makes me a hypocrite or not.

I'm lucky in that I have a fantastic butcher who raises and slaughters his own beef, and sources pork, lamb & chicken locally, and who always has notices up in the shop with the farmer's name, location, and the age and diet of the herd/batch in question displayed. In fact, I drive past three of his suppliers on my way up the hill from the butchers to my house!

I make a point of not buying supermarket meat, wherever I am, as I would much rather see the money go into the pocket of a skilled, knowledgeable butcher who makes his living from his trade.

Minder

To play devils advocate for a minute, why is it acceptable to buy coffee and bananas (fairtrade or not) and not acceptable to buy foreign organic veggies?

Would you extend your food philosphy to have a political slant - boycotting produce from certain countries because you don't want to support their governments?

Tree

It's very hard to grow coffee and bananas in ireland, so you'd either have to give them up or source them elsewhere.

Minder

So it becomes a question of availability? If we can grow it in Ireland we should buy it from an Irish grower, but if it is exotic, then it is acceptable to have it regardless of where it is grown or produced?

olaola

Minder wrote: »

So it becomes a question of availability? If we can grow it in Ireland we should buy it from an Irish grower, but if it is exotic, then it is acceptable to have it regardless of where it is grown or produced?

Personally - I think if it's a veg that we grow in Ireland and it is in season. Well you're not going to get much better than that. If it is A: out of season or B: exotic, then growing it here will probably use more energy from seed to plate than flying it in from elsewhere.

Minder

olaola wrote: »

Personally - I think if it's a veg that we grow in Ireland and it is in season. Well you're not going to get much better than that. If it is A: out of season or B: exotic, then growing it here will probably use more energy from seed to plate than flying it in from elsewhere.

I take your point although there are arguments from the UN International Trade Centre suggesting that food from unmechanised, labour intensive farming methods in third world countries, flown to Europe, produce less CO2 emissions than those produced in Europe. Link

My question is not whether it is sustainable to grow exotics in Ireland - clearly it's not. Rather it is a question of whether we should have those exotics in the first place - if it is unethical to fly organic green beans to Europe from East Africa, why is it not unethical to fly bananas from the same place?

Alun

I also seem to recall reading somewhere that imports of fruit and vegetables from many African countries are effectively getting a free ride to the west. Sometimes as freight on passenger aircraft that are coming here anyway, and sometimes on freight flights that are coming to the west to pick up goods being imported into Africa, that would otherwise return empty. I understand they get very attaractive freight rates from their own national airlines for this.

Personally I'd be more wary of the overuse of pesticides in these countries than the carbon footprint.

coolaboola

I agree with your point regarding exotics. If you wanted to be hard-core ethical I suppose you'd have to forego your exotics and stick to spuds and turnips (with the occasional cabbage!) That's where I find myself bending the rules a bit. Though I do cringe when I see that the sugar snap peas I can't resist came from Kenya (thats a lot of jet lag for such little peas) Or worse, the €1 bags of oranges currently on special in Superquinn from Zimbabwe - I didn't touch them.

So for me, as for everyone who has the luxury of choice in the matter, it comes down to compromise. I'll cut back on my meat consumption and choose Fairtrade where I can and local, seasonal produce too. But I'll also bend 'the rules' a bit so I can treat myself to the sugar snaps or peppers or tomatoes too.

coolaboola

On the locally-produced thing, if it was a choice between locally produced battery chicken or a free-range non-local, I wouldn't choose the battery option.

I suppose that indicates a hierarchy of ethics: animal welfare issues trump environmental issues.

Actually in that situation I probably would opt for lentil curry for dinner instead. There's always another option!

(Of course the lentils aren't locally produced, so we're back to the local/airmiles dilemma again... !)

Macha

Funnily enough, I'm actually doing my Msc thesis on this very subject. There's so many labels out there for so many things, it can be really confusing. coolaboola, that was a great post and you touched on all the major issues.

Personally, I eat seasonal, local, only free-range meat & eggs and organic where possible. No fish (running out) or beef (too much methane), only chicken or maybe pork. I never buy meat from a supermarket, only from a butchers and generally try to avoid Tesco & the rest. I paid €9 for a medium free-range chicken a few days ago. I can afford it and I'm a student. It's about priorities.

I just wanted to make one point on the beans from Kenya, etc. A lot of these places have food and water shortages, yet they are growing water-intensive food to fly over to us in Ireland? It just doesn't make sense.


For anyone looking for good value organic, organic boxes by homeorganics.ie or absolutelyorganic.ie can be a cheaper option with mostly local & delivered to your door.

For those who are interested, studies have shown that in order of importance, people rate:

human welfare (Fairtrade) > animal welfare (free-range) > environmental issues (organic, air miles, etc).

My view on our food culture can be summed up by that Patrick Kavanagh poem "We have tested and tasted too much, lover-through a chink too wide there comes no wonder." We have everything all year round, no one knows what is in season when anymore, food doesn't come from the farm - it comes from the supermarket. Meat doesn't come from an animal, it comes from the supermarket shelf.

We've totally detached ourselves from the source of our food - a general "looking away" from the impacts of the food we eat on other people, animals and the environment.

Minder

coolaboola wrote: »

So for me, as for everyone who has the luxury of choice in the matter, it comes down to compromise. I'll cut back on my meat consumption and choose Fairtrade where I can and local, seasonal produce too. But I'll also bend 'the rules' a bit so I can treat myself to the sugar snaps or peppers or tomatoes too.

I guess most people who can, take a pragmatic approach to their shopping - it is interesting that the largest organic veg box company in the UK - Riverford - have mixed the ethics of food production to promote locally produced fruit and veg where possible - but they also recognize that the consumer will buy citrus and bananas from somewhere - so Riverford offer these even though they are not grown in the UK.

Alun

taconnol wrote: »

For anyone looking for good value organic, organic boxes by homeorganics.ie or absolutelyorganic.ie can be a cheaper option with mostly local & delivered to your door.

As long as your door is in Dublin, that is

Macha

Yeah tis a bit crap. Although Absolutely Organic do deliver to Wicklow via the Ecoshop in Greystones.

Honey-ec

I forgot to mention that I'm on a cod mission and it drives my family insane. I don't eat seafood anyway, but have turned into the biggest nag going whenever someone I'm with orders cod. My mother has finally got the message, but my Dad is a nightmare. If he sees it on a menu somewhere, he'll order it, and his reasoning is "Well if it's on the menu, it must be available."

My older sister also eats it occasionally, and her logic is "Well, I only eat it about once a month, what harm can one portion do". What I try to point out is that all those single portions add up, but there's no talking to her.

Macha

Honey-ec wrote: »

I forgot to mention that I'm on a cod mission and it drives my family insane. I don't eat seafood anyway, but have turned into the biggest nag going whenever someone I'm with orders cod. My mother has finally got the message, but my Dad is a nightmare. If he sees it on a menu somewhere, he'll order it, and his reasoning is "Well if it's on the menu, it must be available."

My older sister also eats it occasionally, and her logic is "Well, I only eat it about once a month, what harm can one portion do". What I try to point out is that all those single portions add up, but there's no talking to her.

This is exactly why farmers & fishermen should not get subsidies from the EU. Instead, everyone should just have to pay the market value for their fish (and other food) and pretty soon the price of fish and meat would go up & deter our overconsumption.

Minder

...or encourage the large supermarket chains to source ever larger quantities of cheaper food from overseas to meet consumer demand - and further erode our food security.

coolaboola

taconnol, interesting Masters. And I'd concur with your hierarchy of values.

It's interesting (and, from my perspective, encouraging) to read that loads of you are asking the same ethical questions too.

What I truly can't get my head around are those people that have the knowledge and intelligence to understand the issues but choose not act accordingly. Sometimes their inaction dressed up in excuses about costs (I can't afford free range chicken (but I can afford two houses and two cars)). Sometimes, like your sister Honey, its the 'this problem is just too big' arguement - how little impact their small acts can have on an issue so massive in scale. But it does all come down to that one portion, that one choice, that one act and how they all add up.

I don't have kids but chose to try to live ethically and sustainably, the very definition of which is to preserve the world for future generations. And yet I look around at many around me who have kids and who are among those that chose the blind eye option, driving around in SUVs, chomping on burgers and chicken wings, slurping their non-Fairtrade coffee and jetting off to the sun. And bringing up their kids with the same values, so that those kids in turn can gobble up the social and environmental resources that I've tried to be conscientious enough to preserve for them.

Yah boo to the lot of them, I'm off to trade my bicycle in for an SUV! Bring me an Argentinian buffalo steak, rare!

*scrape* as I drag my soapbox after me

noby

coolaboola wrote: »

While free-range and organic eggs are widely available, free range chicken is not so much (hurry up, Lidl!) and it hugely expensive compared to their battery counterparts (€12 for a free range chicken versus €5 for a battery chicken. And a whopping €20 for an organic, free range chicken!)

I don't want to be teaching people how to suck eggs here, and I don't do this as nearly as often as I ought to, but this is how far our €12 free-range chicken stretches:

I can't remember the weight, but 'medium', I guess.

First I removed the Thigh/Legs in one piece. Both of these went into the freezer, and are both a fine size for an adult portion.
Then the wings were removed. The first section is discarded (or kept for the stock pot). Each wing is halved at the joint, giving four chicken wings, again frozen. A couple more chickens and there's enough wings to make a meal from. The rest of the chicken was stuffed and roasted. Plenty of chicken for two adults. After dinner the meat and stuffing was stripped from the carcass. Again plenty of meat for either sandwiches or a curry. The carcass will go into the stock pot for some good chicken stock.
So that's three meals, and stock (which could be used in one of the meals) and a few wings in the freezer. All the tastiest meat. With a little care and preparation it makes the €12 sound like a bargain.

MarcoB

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

I'm a big coffee drinker and I've been very confused over the whole fairtrade thing and how it's marketed. I tend to stick to coffee's that claim to have 'paid a fair price' for their beans rather than a 'Fair Trade' sticker.

I was at a lecture where fairtrade in the coffee industry was discussed. They had concerns over falling quality standards because of fairtrade, and that the real workers might be no better off at the end of the day. Basically higher wages for workers (with the same overall profit per kilo coffee) leads to including poor quality coffee which would usually be discarded. There were several other points I cannot remember right now.

Another point not mentioned is energy usage while cooking. People preheating ovens, heading off to the shop and coming back 1 hour later to cook a single chicken fillet. People boiling 2L of water to make 1 cup of tea. Massive pots of water for a few peas or pasta. I am surprised pressure cookers are not being marketed as energy efficient, a insulated pressure cooker with internal element would be highly efficient, and retains nutrients and quick to cook etc.

Also a massive amount of food is wasted, proper refrigeration and sterilization (possible with a pressure cooker) could help this hugely.

Honey-ec

MarcoB wrote: »

People boiling 2L of water to make 1 cup of tea.

I actually didn't think anyone was stupid enough to do this until recently. We got a new kettle in work that has two chambers, you fill the reservoir but then only release enough water for one cup of tea into the lower part (where the element is). I thought this was the biggest gimmick I'd ever heard of, until I said to the girl who sits next to me "Sure who in God's name boils a full kettle every time they make tea anyway???" and she was like "Eh, I do."

Call me naive, but I was genuinely gobsmacked at this. Her reasoning was that she fills the kettle, boils it, makes her tea and then tops the kettle back up to full "for the next person", and apparently her whole family do it too.

The mind boggles, it really does.

coolaboola

Noby, I agree, when you look at it like that, a whole chicken goes a long way. We (there's two of us) would typically roast the chicken (first pickings make up dinner number 1). Next day its chicken salad (dinner number 2). The following day is a scavange for chicken sandwiches (lunch/dinner 3). Then boil what remains of the carcas with some herbs, onion, celery, carrot to make home-made chicken stock which forms the base of dinners 4, 5, 6, etc. So looking at it like that, even at €12 for the free range, its pretty good value.

Marco B and Honey-ec, I'm with you on the energy thing. I can't bring myself to put on the oven for just one thing. I try to cook/bake at least two dishes while I have it on. And as for the filling the kettle... ffs! Gobsmacking indeed. Even if you didn't care about the energy aspect, would you not get fed up of waiting for the kettle to boil?

A colleague of mine was advocating the merits of pressure cookers recently. I don't own one. I do remember them (and their 'hiss') from when I was growing up. I'd be a little concerned that the cooker would boil the food to death (ok, ok, its dead already. You know what I mean!)

The Sweeper

MarcoB wrote: »

I was at a lecture where fairtrade in the coffee industry was discussed. They had concerns over falling quality standards because of fairtrade, and that the real workers might be no better off at the end of the day. Basically higher wages for workers (with the same overall profit per kilo coffee) leads to including poor quality coffee which would usually be discarded.

...what?

That's basically saying that if you pay someone more money they will automatically start doing a crap job?

Oh hang on, do you mean that in order to cover the COST of paying a higher wage, the coffee company includes inferior quality stock to bulk out the volume of what's being sold?

That's crap - if I pay extra for bloody fair trade coffee, I expect that the extra I'm shelling out is what's covering the cost of the higher wage!